Sukhoi PAK FA

Defcon 1

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F-35 has poor fighter abilities due to poor flight package.
If India wants to join NATO and participate in neo-colonial wars in "crowd beats one" tactics against papua savages with Kalashnikovs - then yes, F-35 is a good choice.
If India wants to depend on US heavy fighters support and cover each time it clashes with equal foe - than yes, F-35 is a good choice.
And such a "good" choices we can find a big wagon and a small cart attached.
Kindly explain what do you mean by "poor flight package"
It is quite a wrong conclusion that F35 will require huge numbers considering its payload of over 8 tonnes and very good internal fuel which will match F16's range and payload.
Also, when has F35 required support from heavy US fighters? US stealth bombers did not require supporting aircraft like F15 or E/A18 G. F35 is meant to replace B2 Spirit in the role of penetrating enemy airdefences, and it will be able to operate in the same manner as B2, without requiring support aircraft. Had it been not the case, F35 wouldn't have been chosen as a successor to B2 after cancellation of 2018 bomber.
 

Adioz

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India and China are different when it comes to defense. China is very businesslike and India appears to be goofing off. India is fooling around with FGFA and Rafale for a decade with really no solution in sight. India is thinking about F-16. If that is the case, why not work with Lockheed and add a F-35 assembly line in the F-16 factory. F-35 will be much cheaper and can be acquired quickly. In addition, India should discard FGFA and buy T-50 and save few billions in R&D cost, But that is if India and IAF are serious and businesslike which are both very unlikely!
IAF are a military force (not buisness-like). Though I agree they are not serious (individuals might be serious but the entire organisation as a whole.........).
Buying F-35 does not suit IAF doctrine.
Buying T-50 is stupid. Its a tech demonstrator with tons of problems to be fixed. Its at the stage of a T-10 of 1981. It has a long way to go before it becomes an FGFA level aircraft; similarly T-10 took a lot of time & money to become the Su-27, and then later the Su-30MKI. India should, therefore, NOT DISCARD FGFA to save a few billions in R&D cost as FGFA is a critical enabler, not a luxury (where you would be prompted to save). T-50 is a prototype, not a production model. Falling fighter strength is no excuse for buying underdeveloped products, especially so if available aircraft are grossly underutilised due to low servicability.

Also, when has F35 required support from heavy US fighters? US stealth bombers did not require supporting aircraft like F15 or E/A18 G. F35 is meant to replace B2 Spirit in the role of penetrating enemy airdefences, and it will be able to operate in the same manner as B2, without requiring support aircraft. Had it been not the case, F35 wouldn't have been chosen as a successor to B2 after cancellation of 2018 bomber.
I do not see how a multirole fighter (designed for tactical bombing missions) could replace a dedicated stealth bomber. IMHO, B-2s are hanger queens and there is not enough technology, funds and/or need to create a next generation stealth bomber, so they cancelled the 2018 bomber. And as far as F-35 replacing these is concerned, I would appreciate if you could quote some source.
AFAIK, F-35 can not handle the same level of radar evasion (let alone the range and payload; which are far more important deciding factors for a strategic bombing mission) as a B-2.

@Defcon 1 @gadeshi @BON PLAN @su35 @republic_roi97 @Sam Biswas @StealthFlanker

My humble opinion on India buying F-35:
The main issue is that buying an F-35 means a world of change in the IAF's doctrine.

You see IAF emphasizes individual aircraft survivability. Hence, it requires maneuverable aircraft. (Does not mean the they don't work in teams)

F-35 (very aptly called the JSF) is meant for operating as a team and a team only. Its easy to shoot down a single F-35, but a flight of F-35s will pose an immense challenge simply because they are networked to an unprecedented extent. It works on a new doctrine that centers around information sharing and net-centrality on a whole new level. The critical enabler of this doctrine is the data link hardware in the F-35s, that has enormous bandwidth and resilience.

This data link is on a level where we cannot replicate it with an indigenous data link if we do buy these aircraft. Obviously we cannot use the American data links as they are not compatible with the ones we operate today. As a result, we cannot use the F-35 the way its meant to be used. If we try to use it our way, it will be a disaster (How? Read any one of the articles ripping apart the F-35 for lack of maneuverability and a small payload and range).

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that IAF is not networked. But it is not networked to the extent to which USAF or RAF is networked.

We are also facing the same problem with the P-8I Poseidon aircraft of the Navy.

Even if we were so networked, IAF would be wary of these aircraft as it is based on an entirely new and untested doctrine. USAF has a fail-safe (numbers). We do not.
My humble opinion on India buying F-16:
I am telling you guys, a system like the F-16 is a waste of our resources. Its already exceeded its limits for modernisation which means it will not be able to keep up with the newer jets post-2027. We will be stuck with an obsolete platform for the rest of its service life.
We need the Tejas. Its a new platform that can be (and is already being) upgraded till the end of its service life in the 2050s. Its still however worthwhile to look at F-18. Tejas numbers are not going up any time soon and we have a gaping hole to fill in our defences. Best case scenario:-
200 F-18 Advanced super hornet
300 Tejas LCA

But don't go for the F-16. I am telling you:-
The future air-fleet:-
Heavy Fighters: FGFA (5th gen) + Su-30 mki
Medium Fighters: AMCA (5th gen) + Rafael + Fighter X
Light Fighters: LCA

I want Fighter X to be F-18 Advanced Super Hornet.
IAF wants it to be either the F-16 or Gripen.
 

SajeevJino

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IAF are a military force (not buisness-like). Though I agree they are not serious (individuals might be serious but the entire organisation as a whole.........).
Buying F-35 does not suit IAF doctrine.
Can you explain what's IAF's doctrine, Is it just made for Homeland defense or little bit offensive too.


Buying T-50 is stupid. Its a tech demonstrator with tons of problems to be fixed.
The IAF plans to buy the T 50 R&D and three prototype Hardwares, later it will make the FGFA ... this is the plan as of now


I do not see how a multirole fighter (designed for tactical bombing missions) could replace a dedicated stealth bomber. IMHO, B-2s are hanger queens
Less than 20 units are there, they do routine flight, even some of them in Guam too..!


and there is not enough technology, funds and/or need to create a next generation stealth bomber, so they cancelled the 2018 bomber.
Ever saw UD DoD budget .. they spent more than 50% of it just for Air force secret project, last year also they allocated some billion $ to develop the Next gen bomber..If my memory serves well, Northrup already involved in the R&D.

Seriously I've no idea about the 2018 bomber project

And as far as F-35 replacing these is concerned, I would appreciate if you could quote some source.
AFAIK, F-35 can not handle the same level of radar evasion (let alone the range and payload; which are far more important deciding factors for a strategic bombing mission) as a B-2.
B2 intended for penetrate contested air spaces, before sending the Fighter column, with the coming of F 35 they don't need them anymore for small conflicts..

One more the MANPAD and SRSAM threat is increasing, even some terrorists have it (Houthi, Hezbullah). The F 35 suits for future needs
 

su35

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1. F-35 is already in production in full speed. There are many assembly lines even outside USA. For example Italy has its own assembly line. Lockheed has a very high band width. Pentagon made many orders and deliveries already. The latest order of 57 jets are to be delivered around 2020, I think.
2. India already has a lot of Su30MKI. There must be an operational reason IAF wants some other fighter jets, for example reliability and availability. I believe Tejas is wonderful and that is what India should invest in. But if India needs a single engine Proven fighter jet, choice has to be F-16, particularly when Lockheed is willing to set up manufacturing in India of this iconic jet. India will get inside knowledge of the most successful fighter jet manufacturing that would be very helpful to India.
3. Any deal with Lockheed needs to be negotiated carefully to suit India's need. PM Modi is very capable in that regard. Doing business with Lockheed would be far easier than with Russian and French companies. As long as Lockheed gets Pentagon approval, they will not care to keep technologies concealed. I understand Pentagon already approved.
4. I said USA sees India, being a True democracy, as a good and formidable strategic partner in Asia.
5. USA is a democracy like India, so very fluid. Everything is up for negotiation. And India supplies engineers to the world including USA. Why India needs Russian engineers to help locals in India, I would not know. When I was a kid in Durgapur India, I saw some Russians in Durgapur Steel who were known to create problems.
1. First of all yes Tejas and su 30mki are sharing many component and having this decreases the maintenance cost per aircraft It also suit IAF doctrine completely
2. What made you think that F 16 is proven Iconic Jets and in what ways. There are many other Fighter jets around world Mirage Mig 21 bison.
3. For your information Lockheed is agreeing to set up just an assembly line or at highest some common spare part manufacturing area NO ASEA nor Engine.
4. Really Pentagon care not to keep technologies concealed Never heard of it. They did not share tech with British( BROTHERS) or SOuth Korean(MOLESTATION CASE FILLED AGAINST AMERICAN SOLDIERS)
If your words are true F35 is going to be an Iconic jet then whey they are hesitating to sell old F 22.
5. America always tries to establish Puppet capitalistic democracy. America fought against USSR claiming them wrong and criminals. Yet after fall USSR Afghanistan was able to hold Al quida for 3 years even when terrorism at its most height. But see know even with NATO help they are not able to establish themselves and seeking Russia and India help.

6. USA always love to establish democracy which obey them not the one able to rule themselves. They removed Saddam from Iraq hailed themselves as for bringer of democracy and see know the condition of Iraq See the condition of Syria. USA just use these country as ad ground for their weapon.

7.If USA believes in true democracy then why it is not establishing it in Saudi Arabia and UAE.

Sorry Mods for diverting topic
 

Sam Biswas

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1. First of all yes Tejas and su 30mki are sharing many component and having this decreases the maintenance cost per aircraft It also suit IAF doctrine completely
6. USA always love to establish democracy which obey them not the one able to rule themselves. They removed Saddam from Iraq hailed themselves as for bringer of democracy and see know the condition of Iraq See the condition of Syria. USA just use these country as ad ground for their weapon.

7.If USA believes in true democracy then why it is not establishing it in Saudi Arabia and UAE.

Sorry Mods for diverting topic
Your issue is that you don't like USA and favor Russia. I won't argue about international politics and babble about Syria/UAE etc. etc. That is a separate issue. I like India and I believe India should buy US arms and equip appropriately. Tejas has much in common with US fighter jets like its engine. What Lockheed and Boeing are offering India are beyond any offer India received from Russia or France.

You are babbling about Russia, can you get Russia to build a factory in India to build Su35 with Indian workers and make it an international base for export? I will like that. You talk about FGFA and great T-50. Russia stiffed India. It took $295 million and did not even give India a chance to test-fly it. Now it wants Five billion dollars to R&D to make it a two seater which is total nonsense. Russia is simply bilking India. That five billion could be better spent on building Tejas, or buying 100 F-16, or 50 F-35. I would like to see how PM Modi can explain this $5 billion dollar bogus expense to Indian people.

It is quite doubtful Russia even created a half way decent fifth gen fighter jet. T-50 could be a bogus show piece to get money from India or China. Otherwise why it will not allow IAF pilots to test fly it or bring it to India to show it. Russia wants five billion dollars to develop a fifth gen fighter jet that it does not have money for.
 

SajeevJino

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1. First of all yes Tejas and su 30mki are sharing many component and having this decreases the maintenance cost per aircraft It also suit IAF doctrine completely
How, Radar, air frame, engine, missiles, all of them is not same for Tejas and MKI... or else I don't know the common components in both MKI and LCA

2. What made you think that F 16 is proven Iconic Jets and in what ways. There are many other Fighter jets around world Mirage Mig 21 bison.
go and check the History, why F 16 is a proven iconic, F 16 is royal player, MiG 21 is poor men's friend

3. For your information Lockheed is agreeing to set up just an assembly line or at highest some common spare part manufacturing area NO ASEA nor Engine.
only some speculations available, how you sure about these things, ever heard offset clause

4. Really Pentagon care not to keep technologies concealed Never heard of it. They did not share tech with British( BROTHERS) or SOuth Korean(MOLESTATION CASE FILLED AGAINST AMERICAN SOLDIERS)
If your words are true F35 is going to be an Iconic jet then whey they are hesitating to sell old F 22.
apart from Japan and Israel, no one wants the Raptor, for two reason, huge operating and Procurement cost, they didn't face such level of threat to use the F 22

5. America always tries to establish Puppet capitalistic democracy. America fought against USSR claiming them wrong and criminals. Yet after fall USSR Afghanistan was able to hold Al quida for 3 years even when terrorism at its most height. But see know even with NATO help they are not able to establish themselves and seeking Russia and India help.
And still we Indian loves green card, H1B, and loves to go USA,, not Russia

take a look of Russian supported nations ( Some Africans) and US Supported nations, (RoK, North Europe, Japan )


6. USA always love to establish democracy which obey them not the one able to rule themselves. They removed Saddam from Iraq hailed themselves as for bringer of democracy and see know the condition of Iraq See the condition of Syria. USA just use these country as ad ground for their weapon.
you're new to the game, go cry a river

7.If USA believes in true democracy then why it is not establishing it in Saudi Arabia and UAE.
Since these peoples not ready to raise voice against KSA and UAE
 

sorcerer

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New Engines, Weapons for Russian Stealth Fighter

Russia’s T-50 fifth-generation fighter aircraft will enter flight-test with new engines in the fourth quarter of next year. The Sukhoi-designed jet is also known as Pakfa (Russian acronym for Perspective Aviation Complex of Frontal Aviation). More detail about the T-50’s weapons fit has recently emerged.

The Pakfa has been flying since 2010 on the power of NPO Saturn “Item 117” engines developing 14.5 tonnes (32,000 pounds) thrust and derived from the “Item 117S” engines found on the Sukhoi Su-35 Advanced Flanker. But the new engines are a fresh design designated “Item 30” that has already begun bench testing, according to industry sources. Their thrust is likely to be between 15 and 20 tonnes (33,000-44,000 pounds).

Speaking to the media last month, Alexander Artyukhov, general manager at United Engine, said that remaining development work on the new engine “will be done in the period of 2018to 2020, with state acceptance trials set for 2020.” Russian industry previously developed a 20-tonne-thrust fighter engine for the MiG 1.42 technology demonstrator that flew briefly in 2000. But it never entered production.

Meanwhile, a ninth prototype Pakfa has flown and is now undergoing “complex avionics testing” and weapons firing trials. Russian air force commander Gen. Viktor Bondarev told journalists recently that the military is ready to sign a contract next year for five aircraft to be delivered in 2018. Deputy defense minister for equipment procurement Gen. Yuri Borisov said the ministry is going to award an initial order “for at least one squadron” of Pakfa aircraft next year, powered by the existing “Item 117” engines.

United Aircraft (UAC) president Yuri Slyusar called the Pakfa development “one of UAC’s priority programs.” He continued, “If we succeed with Pakfa development, this will help us maintain competitiveness in the domain of frontal aviation in the long term.” Slyusar expects the initial order to be for 12 production airframes, adding to the planned total of 12 prototypes that would remain with the industry and testing establishments.

The Tactical Missile Corporation (TRV) recently revealed that it is working on 12 types of missile for the aircraft, targeting completion of trials on six types by next year and the remaining six by 2020. These include new air-to-air missiles: the RVV-MD for close-in combat, and RVV-SD for beyond-visual-range engagements. Compared with previous-generation models, they feature new homing systems with higher sensitivity and resistance to jamming. The RVV-MD employs a new twin-band infrared seeker with multi-element photo-receiver and digital signal processing. These innovations will double the distance of target acquisition compared to the previous-generation Vympel R-73E, while enlarging the missile’s seeking angles by 30 percent. The RVV-SD, which is a further evolution of in-service RVV-AE, features improved aerodynamics, a higher-power emitter and a more sensitive active radar homing head than its predecessor. The missile’s software has been “completely reworked” to enable a 35-percent increase in the maximum firing range and improved capabilities in defeating aerial targets by executing 12g maneuvers.

Air-to-ground weapons slated for the Pakfa include the Kh-38ME missile line of modular designs that allow for employment of different guidance systems and warheads. The Kh-38MLE version comes with a laser homing; the Kh-38MTE with a thermal imager; and the Kh-38MAE with an active radar seeker. There is also a Kh-38MKE version with satellite-aided homing.

In addition to the KAB-500SE guided bomb with Glonass homing, which was combat-proved in Syria, the Pakfa may also use the much lighter (250kg) KAB-250LG-E with a similar homing system.

Furthermore, the Pakfa will carry OFZAB-500 “splinter/high-explosive/incendiary” and the ODAB-500PVM vacuum bomb. Examples of these munitions have been manufactured for testing.
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...2/new-engines-weapons-russian-stealth-fighter
 

Sam Biswas

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New Engines, Weapons for Russian Stealth Fighter

Russia’s T-50 fifth-generation fighter aircraft will enter flight-test with new engines in the fourth quarter of next year. The Sukhoi-designed jet is also known as Pakfa (Russian acronym for Perspective Aviation Complex of Frontal Aviation). More detail about the T-50’s weapons fit has recently emerged.
PAK-FA or T-50 appears to everyone as a souped up SU-30 or Su-35. There is no evidence that it is anything beyond a 4th gen fighter, Stealth ability may not be there at all. It is in the same status as Rafale which is also claimed to be a "stealth". US military does not believe Russia has a fifth gen fighter or going to have one soon. In addition, Russia's refusal to allow its partner India to test-fly their proto-type also proves US Military's conclusion regarding PAK-FA.

Russia needs to bring a proto-type to India and let IAF test it for a month or so. Without that it is nothing but another bogus Russian claim or propaganda that Communists are very good at!
 

airtel

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PAK-FA or T-50 appears to everyone as a souped up SU-30 or Su-35. There is no evidence that it is anything beyond a 4th gen fighter, Stealth ability may not be there at all. It is in the same status as Rafale which is also claimed to be a "stealth". US military does not believe Russia has a fifth gen fighter or going to have one soon. In addition, Russia's refusal to allow its partner India to test-fly their proto-type also proves US Military's conclusion regarding PAK-FA.

Russia needs to bring a proto-type to India and let IAF test it for a month or so. Without that it is nothing but another bogus Russian claim or propaganda that Communists are very good at!

You are a blind America Supporter :blah::blah::blah: you are supporting American products even without any Logic & facts .........:bs:

India is partner in FGFA and not in PAK-FA .

who Gave Rights to so called American experts to decide whether Russia has 5th gen Fighter or not ??
how they decided capabilities of Pak-fa if it is not even inducted & tested ??

http://www.pravdareport.com/russia/economics/11-04-2016/134134-fifth_generation_aircraft-0/

^^According to Russian experts Americans dont have any 5th gen. fighter and only Russia has a 5th gen Fighter. :pound::pound::pound::pound:


do you think stealth = 5th gen. ?

and please tell me what do you understand by the term " Stealth " ..............and how it can be useful in India's Future wars .
 
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IndianHawk

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No need to be overtly critical of Russia.
They take their time but they delivered Master piece like su30mki and now su35.
Which can go toe to toe with the very best of Western jets.
So if they are facing problems with PAK fa that means they are actually trying to break through in technology .

Anyway what options do we have f35 links us to US based control centre .

We should be focusing on learning engine tech from FGFA program . (Make it part of TOT ) and other practical aspects where we lag rather then crying about stealth.

PAK FA has more stealth than Chinese j20 anyday and that is our primary threat in next 20 years.

Regarding USA we have a long way to go to establish trust still.
It's not just the line of f16 but also written assurance on continued support and non-interference at time of war with a third party. Otherwise it's just hogwash a fighter with possible sanctions is just a show piece
 

Sam Biswas

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You are a blind America Supp


do you think stealth = 5th gen. ?

and please tell me what do you understand by the term " Stealth " ..............and how it can be useful in India's Future wars .
I am an Indian American. Who cares what I support? I am stating that Pak-FA/T-50 is bogus Su-30 with no fifth gen or Stealth capabilities. It is all bogus Kremlin propaganda to scheme money out of India. No one outside Kremlin has seen any stealth capabilities of PAK-FA. They can't even allow India to test fly the proto type aircraft. That is a clear proof that Russian stealth fighter does NOT exist. Prove me I am wrong.
 

Butter Chicken

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Japan's Mitsuibishi X-2 Shinsin is another 5th generation fighter we can partner with.Japan is not at all reluctant to transfer technology(they will do huge ToT+Full make in India for advanced tech like Shinkansen).Russians have looted us on various occasions.
 

IndianHawk

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I am an Indian American. Who cares what I support? I am stating that Pak-FA/T-50 is bogus Su-30 with no fifth gen or Stealth capabilities. It is all bogus Kremlin propaganda to scheme money out of India. No one outside Kremlin has seen any stealth capabilities of PAK-FA. They can't even allow India to test fly the proto type aircraft. That is a clear proof that Russian stealth fighter does NOT exist. Prove me I am wrong.
Well the same argument goes for the Chinese j20 'stealth' fighter. Even more accurately given chinese secrecy surpasses Russia and China is still dependant on Russian engines.

In which case we do not face any stealth threat and thus have no requirement for a fifth gen fighter.

What is your proposal than how shall iaf maintain heavy fighter inventory in future???

Also since our own ada/HAL have came up with a stealth AMCA design I suppose they are just bluffing us because if Russians can't develop stealth we certainly can't in given timeframe (by 2030-35).

We should abandon that too??
 

Sam Biswas

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No need to be overtly critical of Russia.
They take their time but they delivered Master piece like su30mki and now su35.
Which can go toe to toe with the very best of Western jets.
So if they are facing problems with PAK fa that means they are actually trying to break through in technology .

Anyway what options do we have f35 links us to US based control centre .

We should be focusing on learning engine tech from FGFA program . (Make it part of TOT ) and other practical aspects where we lag rather then crying about stealth.

PAK FA has more stealth than Chinese j20 anyday and that is our primary threat in next 20 years.

Regarding USA we have a long way to go to establish trust still.
It's not just the line of f16 but also written assurance on continued support and non-interference at time of war with a third party. Otherwise it's just hogwash a fighter with possible sanctions is just a show piece
Well my friend, I hate to disappoint you. First, Russian engines are always underpowered that is why they put two engines in every fighter jet. Second, they have so few aircraft technologies that they simply cannot share any with India. If they do, they will not have anything left to sell to India in the future. Third, India is already in bed with GE engines. GE or Pratt Whitney will be able to build with Indis specialized fighter jet engines that China, Russia, and Pakistan can not get. Fourth, India is also looking at other military technologies like Aircraft carrier etc. from the United States. SO why not F-16 and F-35.
 

IndianHawk

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Japan's Mitsuibishi X-2 Shinsin is another 5th generation fighter we can partner with.Japan is not at all reluctant to transfer technology(they will do huge ToT+Full make in India for advanced tech like Shinkansen).Russians have looted us on various occasions.
They are reluctant to sell us US2i with armament included.

Your confidence in their generosity regarding TOT without any example is awe inspiring :shock:
 

Sam Biswas

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Well the same argument goes for the Chinese j20 'stealth' fighter. Even more accurately given chinese secrecy surpasses Russia and China is still dependant on Russian engines.

In which case we do not face any stealth threat and thus have no requirement for a fifth gen fighter.

What is your proposal than how shall iaf maintain heavy fighter inventory in future???

Also since our own ada/HAL have came up with a stealth AMCA design I suppose they are just bluffing us because if Russians can't develop stealth we certainly can't in given timeframe (by 2030-35).

We should abandon that too??
Well my friend, that is very short sighted, J-20 may not be what China purports it to be. But knowing the Chinese I know in a few years they will come up with J-40 that will be real stealth. India will always be a Junior power in Asia with your kind of mentality. More precisely, a junior Asian power subservient to Kremlin.
 

IndianHawk

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Well my friend, I hate to disappoint you. First, Russian engines are always underpowered that is why they put two engines in every fighter jet. Second, they have so few aircraft technologies that they simply cannot share any with India. If they do, they will not have anything left to sell to India in the future. Th
Russian are behind the curve than US I agree.
But they offer unconditional support.
Third, India is already in bed with GE engines. GE or Pratt Whitney will be able to build with Indis specialized fighter jet engines that China, Russia, and Pakistan can not get. Fourth, India is also looking at other military technologies like Aircraft carrier etc. from the United States. SO why not F-16 and F-35.
We can buy GE engines but TOT remains a wishful thinking as of now.
Regarding aircraft carrier we are contemplating no decision is taken as of yet .
F35 is a networked fighter individually it lags on every parameter. And if we buy it we can't stay connected to US command now that is an aspect where we need more clarity and I don't think we'll ever have.

F16 is in different league of discussion I prefer it over gripen actually.
 

IndianHawk

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Well my friend, that is very short sighted, J-20 may not be what China purports it to be. But knowing the Chinese I know in a few years they will come up with J-40 that will be real stealth. India will always be a Junior power in Asia with your kind of mentality. More precisely, a junior Asian power subservient to Kremlin.
That's not my mentality but your own logic
Applied to china .

Russia is still decades ahead in aviation technology than china.

And India will remain a junior power in Asia unless it's economy overtakes china.
Few jets can't alter balance of power please enlarge your mentality

Kremlin can never subdue us we have already surpassed it but Washington can and will try for sure
 

airtel

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I am an Indian American.

dual citizenship is not allowed according to Indian constitution , you can either be an American citizen or an Indian citizen But not Both .

by the way your nationality is irrelevant for me .


but please stop promoting American Jets like F-solah & F-Paintees in every thread without any solid facts & evidences .



Who cares what I support? I am stating that Pak-FA/T-50 is bogus Su-30 with no fifth gen or Stealth capabilities. It is all bogus Kremlin propaganda to scheme money out of India. No one outside Kremlin has seen any stealth capabilities of PAK-FA. They can't even allow India to test fly the proto type aircraft. That is a clear proof that Russian stealth fighter does NOT exist. Prove me I am wrong.
Pak-FA/T-50 is Bogus or capable this decision will be taken by Indian Air-force & Indian ministry of defence and not by any self proclaimed American expert .

USA also Got billions of $ from many countries as a development cost of F-35 and Many of those countries still not got chance to fly that F- paintees .

....................................................................so please stop this American propaganda ............IAF can choose tejas , Rafael , sukhoi 30 , Pak-fa or whatever .

this is choice of Indian MOD & IAF .
 

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