Sukhoi PAK FA

[Sam Biswas]

Read all of his posts................He Belongs to American weapon Lobby .

Anybody who is not part of Russia and France groupies must be an America weapons lobby. People like you are putting the whole country in danger because IAF is weak and no match for China or maybe even Pakistan. IAF is loaded with SU30 which I understand crash about 8 per year or half a squadron per year killing dozens or pilots and Rafales will be here in many years which will not be able to go anywhere near China or Pakistan. India's defense simply is a sitting duck. China with its stealth jets can wipe it out in a couple of days. Think about that.

 

[Sam Biswas]

No.. because it's F35.:biggrin2:..its reputation is radioactive

It already developed a great reputation. Israel has only five and three of them evaded Russian S-300 missiles and bombed Baghdad. That tells you its capability.

 

[Kay]

Anybody who is not part of Russia and France groupies must be an America weapons lobby. People like you are putting the whole country in danger because IAF is weak and no match for China or maybe even Pakistan. IAF is loaded with SU30 which I understand crash about 8 per year or half a squadron per year killing dozens or pilots and Rafales will be here in many years which will not be able to go anywhere near China or Pakistan. India's defense simply is a sitting duck. China with its stealth jets can wipe it out in a couple of days. Think about that.

8 Su MKI crashes per year...
I don't know what you are smoking...but I like it

 

[Sam Biswas]

I can't and won't argue with stupidity. India will probably keep on giving billions of dollars to Russia and France and buy third rate weapons because they are UNSC members.

 

[pmaitra]

Read all of his posts................He Belongs to American weapon Lobby .

I am no fan of F-35, but do you have any evidence that he is part of the US weapons lobby?

Anybody who is not part of Russia and France groupies must be an America weapons lobby. People like you are putting the whole country in danger because IAF is weak and no match for China or maybe even Pakistan. IAF is loaded with SU30 which I understand crash about 8 per year or half a squadron per year killing dozens or pilots and Rafales will be here in many years which will not be able to go anywhere near China or Pakistan. India's defense simply is a sitting duck. China with its stealth jets can wipe it out in a couple of days. Think about that.

You make a claim, you back it up with references. I would like to see evidence that 8 Sukhoi-30s crash per year.

 

[Kay]

It already developed a great reputation. Israel has only five and three of them evaded Russian S-300 missiles and bombed Baghdad. That tells you its capability.

Bombed Baghdad???
....

Look I think you are well intentioned about Indian needs...it's the thought that matters...:biggrin2:

 

[Kay]

I can't and won't argue with stupidity. India will probably keep on giving billions of dollars to Russia and France and buy third rate weapons because they are UNSC members.

Sorry if I was being rude...F-35 does have a bad reputation..it's all over the internet...plus it's a gigantic scam..that too is all over the internet...and yes India should build her own fighters..not buy from other nations including Russia and France

 

[StealthFlanker]

F-35 does have a bad reputation..it's all over the internet...plus it's a gigantic scam..that too is all over the internet

To be frank, most of those information about F-35 on internet are loads of crap written by ignorant journalists

 

[Kay]

To be frank, most of those information about F-35 on internet are loads of crap written by ignorant journalists

Apart from General Bogdan and Lockheed Martin, it has few fans...
You can diss warisboring and foxtrot.alpha, but not the reports by the Auditor General's office ...

 

[airtel]

I am no fan of F-35, but do you have any evidence that he is part of the US weapons lobby.

he is may or may not be from American weapon Lobby but he is American &
All His comments are Giving funny reasons why India should Buy Americans Jets like F-16 , F-18 , F-35 etc instead of Rafaels , grippen or sukhois .

His older comments >> http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/search/5408167/?page=4

 

[StealthFlanker]

Apart from General Bogdan and Lockheed Martin, it has few fans...
You can diss warisboring and foxtrot.alpha, but not the reports by the Auditor General's office ...

How about the evaluation report from the Danish type selection?
http://www.fmn.dk/temaer/kampfly/Do...-kommende-kampfly-reduceret-vers-20160509.pdf
Figur 3.3 shows survivability rating in relation to mission type and level of mission intensity

Figure 3.4 Grading the candidate mission effectiveness in relation to mission type and level of mission intensity

Enemy positions in the Air Interdiction scenario are as follows:

Enemy positions in Suppression / Destruction of Enemy Air Defense scenario are as follows:

Air Order Of Battle:
- Six SU-30mk. Four aircraft kan förväntas be airborne. The remaining two aircraft are on the ready state 15 to "Charlie Papa" air base. The aircraft are armed with: Four AA-11 infrared air-to-air missiles, four PL-12 active radar missiles, SAP-518 self-protection jammer pods.

Missile Order Of Battle:
Radio-frequency seeking Surface-to-Air Missiles (SAM):
- One SA-20 GARGOYLE battery in the vicinity of "Bravo Hotel" town.
- Eight SA-11 Gadfly protect the SA-20
- An unknown number of SA-22 organic two army units.
The exact positioning of the SAMs are unknown. HOWEVER, the SA-22s can be expected close to the SA-20 site for protection.
Infrared (IR) Seeking SAMs:
- Unknown number of SA-14s.
- Unknown number of SA-18s.
- Unknown number of SA-24s.
The Infrared seeking SAMs are distributed with army units throughout the adversary territory.

 

[TPFscopes]

India should get real and put safety of IAF personnel and India in the front. We all know, FGFA/PAK-FA does not exist and will not materialize for decades. India already spent billions on Rafales that will not come for years and a fourth gen fighter. Why would you be spending another ten billions for FGFA which will not come for decades when you can easily buy F-35s from USA. We all know F-35 is the only fighter availabele to India that can go inside China and Pakistan with impunity. The only reasons India will be buying other jets are stupidity and under the table deals.

F-35 will not be a nice option for India.
US always Support it's allies (Pakistan) for its own interests. We need fighters for fighting , not for showcasing them. We also know that India didn't have US' ambassador to India, this shows their seriousness towards India.
INDIA will never completely trust US.
There is still no official announcement for the FGFA deal than how can we say that it's dead. Wait for its , it'll surely surface but conditions may change.

 

[kstriya]

F-35 will not be a nice option for India.
US always Support it's allies (Pakistan) for its own interests. We need fighters for fighting , not for showcasing them. We also know that India didn't have US' ambassador to India, this shows their seriousness towards India.
INDIA will never completely trust US.
There is still no official announcement for the FGFA deal than how can we say that it's dead. Wait for its , it'll surely surface but conditions may change.

I am not sure on the delay but FGFA will be reality in Indian colours. F35 could be part of Indian defense forces but in the Indian navy not IAF, the moot question is F35 is a very net centric fighter, will the Americans give us full access to the system or it will be at their mercy where and when to operate?

 

[TPFscopes]

Personally, I didn't see any future of American fighters for Indian Armed forces unless or until US agreed for ToT of sophisticated systems.
If there will be any conflict with PAKISTAN than US will not hesitate to put sanctions on India.

 

[sjmaverick]

WORK ON PAK FA 5-GENERATION JET ARE AT FINAL STAGE
TUESDAY, JUNE 06, 2017 BY INDIANDEFENSE NEWS

The works on the PAK FA jet are at the final stage, Russia's deputy defense minister said.
Russia's Sukhoi Aviation Holding Company will produce two modifications of the T-50 (PAK FA) fifth-generation fighter aircraft in 2017, Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said.
"The works on the PAK FA are at the final stage. This year we will receive the 10th and 11th models which will be tested, while the first serial procurement of the T-50 fighters is scheduled for the next state armament program for 2018-2025," Borisov said visiting the Komsomolsk-on-Amur aircraft manufacturing plant.
On May 3, General Designer of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) Sergei Korotkov said that the flying tests of the newest PAK FA (T-50) fighter aircraft will be conducted in the near future.
The Sukhoi T-50 (PAK FA) is a fifth-generation fighter and the first to use stealth technology in Russia. It is a single-seat, twin-engine multirole jet fighter designed for air superiority and attack roles.

I was hoping for some leadership decision on procurement of these jets while Modi was on visit and had many round of discussion with Putin to end stalemate situation hanging past many years on this important project...but seems that India have to wait further..that may not be bad if India negotiate and succeed in getting what it wants with both countries feeling win win which is not case at this moment .My two cents on gearing up Indian Air Force for future.. both AMCA and FGFA should materialize in next decade as both are complementary and does not substitute each other.

 

[Superdefender]

It already developed a great reputation. Israel has only five and three of them evaded Russian S-300 missiles and bombed Baghdad. That tells you its capability.

F-35 is a complete no-no for India. You can hold its reputation to yourself.

 

[Krusty]

China with its stealth jets can wipe it out in a couple of days.

Wow. You seem to know the performance parameters and capabilities of J20 in its entirety. Where did you get that information from? Only 5 LIRP have been inducted and even PLAAAAAAAF is just getting to train with the jet and evaluating how to use its capabilities in their military doctrine. So even before the Chinese themselves come up with a fresh doctrine for the aircraft, you seem to know it already and decided it will 'wipe out' Indias Air Force 'in a couple of days'? Either you are very close to PLAAAAAAF TOP dogs or you have had a little too much of Chinese koolaid. I'd put my money on the latter.

Revisit history... every time suppaa high stealth teknaaalagy has been boasted by Super powers, it has only led to eggs on their faces. J20 I expect will not be any different. Stealth is waaaaay too overrated. It's not me saying it. Stop drinking Chinese koolaid and research for yourself. You will see.

 

[Sunstersun]

Wow. You seem to know the performance parameters and capabilities of J20 in its entirety. Where did you get that information from? Only 5 LIRP have been inducted and even PLAAAAAAAF is just getting to train with the jet and evaluating how to use its capabilities in their military doctrine. So even before the Chinese themselves come up with a fresh doctrine for the aircraft, you seem to know it already and decided it will 'wipe out' Indias Air Force 'in a couple of days'? Either you are very close to PLAAAAAAF TOP dogs or you have had a little too much of Chinese koolaid. I'd put my money on the latter.

Revisit history... every time suppaa high stealth teknaaalagy has been boasted by Super powers, it has only led to eggs on their faces. J20 I expect will not be any different. Stealth is waaaaay too overrated. It's not me saying it. Stop drinking Chinese koolaid and research for yourself. You will see.

Lets just say stealth is overrated(which it isnt), how would you know? China, Russia and India are racing to build stealth fighters.

Literally we've never seen stealth fighters in combat except at red flag where they dominate like 20-1.

Also literally every military program has delays and cost overruns, the only reason the f-35 gets so much heat is because no one understands why it's a great plane and social media.

Here is the f-16 news report back then when it was still developing.


yet it turned out to be the greatest fighter ever created.

 

[Krusty]

Lets just say stealth is overrated(which it isnt), how would you know? China, Russia and India are racing to build stealth fighters.

Literally we've never seen stealth fighters in combat except at red flag where they dominate like 20-1.

Huh? That kids Soccer match they call the red flag? Something that doesn't test the readiness state or sortie rate like, say... an actual conflict situation? Showing off stealth is all well and good as Long as you are performing fruity loop be loops to impress children and investors in friendly airspace. When it's actual combat, it's extremely different. F117 shot down over Serbia was one of the first instances where showing off stealth and eating too much propaganda actually led to the American pilot ending up in an embarrassing interview in front of his captors .. to even the mighty F22 when flying in Syria for combat runs are escorted by F15s and F16s... why? So called F22 can kill 20-30 EFTs and Rafales right? The USAF is so afraid that the F22s will run into outdated Syrian aircrafts? The advent of GaN radars have further dented the so called supaa stealth features. Not to mention the absolutely pathetic sortie rate of the F22. These 'stealth' aircrafts require so much more effort in maintenance. So you know that? Just go check the he readiness and sortie rates of F22 and compare it with F15 or F16s.

Besides, what I ultimately bank on is logic. Do YOU know the entire capabilities J20? It's not even public domain yet. Even PLAAAAAF are just training with the new aircraft. And already somehow magically you have got all the performance parameters are decided it will 'Wipe out IAF' in a couple of days? Based on what parameters and conditions was this decided? Please answer.

Yes. Stealth is overrated. Stealth doesn't mean invisibility. It was just Low observable. New types of radars are already in which are capable of picking up these birds. Yes, the F22 has been tracked by radars. It isn't something new. And don't even go into WVR. Even the agile F22 got whupped by German EFTs. Just Google 'raptor salad for lunch'. And have you seen how tiny the wing area is in comparison to the body size isnfor the J20? Can you tell me what does that say?

 

[Bahamut]

Stealth is as much planning the route flying low with ecm as much it is about design.