Small arms and Light Weapons

[Love Charger]

See report, its govt to govt thing.... Nepal basically buys either chinese or indian, brazillian govt won't bother trying to gain influence in a country half a world away.

I am right feeling so low about myself , and I study arts and public administration?
Mere upar laakh laantein that I ignored this government to government point

 

[ALBY]

 

[Johny_Baba]

Indian stamped steel weapons quality is ultra shit.Milled ones are better.If any doubt just take a Ghatak and a Tar.Literally speaking the rust and hard edges of Ghatak may give you tetanus infection

time to quote something from my old post on M-19, do read the red highlighted text

ironically, i am in support of this idea, 'specially for INSAS,
i mean if they want to have non-reciprocating charging handle why not going ahead with one of the most sealed design than trying to open up another slot elsewhere...Serbians already successfully did this with their newer 6.5mm Zastava AKs

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^kinda crude one here, transitioning from AK style to AR style, also integrating rail with top cover etc...

from here it went ahead, added removable barrels and new ACR style buttstock and so, became this,
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(these two pics credited to thefirearmsblog)
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so now they have <a> non-reciprocating charging handle integrated with top railed cover, is also a sealed design <b> original charging handle slot covered, and large fire selector doubling as dust cover is replaced with thumb operated ambidextrous fire selectors <c> replacable barrel+gas block sets, also option to change calibres with compatible magazines etc...

^this serbian AK is, and mark my words, THE MOST near thing to what Indian Army intented to get here when INSAS program started, i mean, after evaluating and rejecting Steyr AUG and some other rifles they wanted to have a desi rifle with swappable barrels among other things and even tried for that but eventually we all know how things played out...
...
...
after all these years they at least have a "template design" ready in some other land, should import 10 some pieces here and go full Norinco on them, try to make our own INSAS derivative out of this

but yeah if only wishes were horses...

btw serbs should try to redesign bolt carrier though, i mean that's the only part that seems to be not changed from previous AK design and judging from pics it seems the AK pattern shape of the bolt carrier is kinda ruining sealing of the rifle around borders with upper railed cover, a redesigned boxy cover shaped like this new top cover would resolve that issue easily, but if it's ok for serbian military then what else to say...at least it's not as open as a normal AK would be during fire modes...

Now, some explanation;
do note this is not my original work, as it was conveyed to me by a certain kwora based defense writer friend

"In the mid 80s the Indian Army had decided to switch over from the 7.62 mm NATO calibre to 5.56 mm NATO. It was also decided to switch over from the L1A1 to a more modern and lighter infantry rifle. In 1985, after the trials, the Aug Styr and the H&Ks G41 were short listed for final selection. Both these rifles are excellent weapons in their respective class and both the manufacturers offered transfer of technology and licenses production

Indian Army had the following observations for Aug Styr and G41:
Aug Styr
Pros:-
- Inter-changeable barrels for rifle, carbine and LMG.
- Common parts reduced logistics and simplified training of troops.
Cons:-
- Not an ideal infantry battle rifle (but suitable for SOF units).
The term “battle rifle” fits a weapon that has suitable stand off distance for bayonet fighting and the Aug Styr does not allow that due to its compact size. The butt end has to be strong enough to withstand punishment in hand-to-hand combat. The Aug Styr lacked these two quality requirements (QR).
G41
Pros:-
- The weapon fitted all the QRs for a battle rifle.
Cons:-
- The G41 did not offer anything new apart for 5.56 mm calibre. This role could be achieved in the L1A1s by conversion of these rifles from 7.62mm to 5.56mm.
- The G41 did not offer the inter-changeable components as offered by the Aug Styr.
Army HQ asked DRDO if the Aug Styrs’ capabilities could be achieved in a battle rifles design like the G41. It was a challenging task, as DRDO had no experience in development of small arms. Till then the organisation had only made copies of the L1A1 and L4, and a modified L1A1 (heavy barrelled auto) called 1C (for Mech units). It was not a matter of national pride but the development of a concept.

Due to lack of prior experience in rifle design and development, DRDO chose the simplest and proven design for the operating system. Hence, the AK-74 operating system was chosen, giving rise to statements that it is an AK74 copy. The commonality in major components had to be maintained for the rifle, LMG and carbine. The primary feature had be quick change of barrels in all three versions of the weapon system. Features of most successful rifles were incorporated to achieve the desired results. Design features of the M16, G3 and FN were used towards that effect.

The INSAS 1B rifle looks like an FN FNC on observation. Maximum efforts were put to clear all deficiencies of this weapon since it was the most crucial of the 3 weapons. The delay in induction of the 1B rifle forced the army to purchase 100,000 Romanian AKs to equip the COIN units, the non-commando battalions of the Parachute Regiment, and J&K Police during the mid 90s. At the same time captured AKs/ T-56 from militants were recycled (after refurbishment), and issued to police and para-military units as per requirement."

tl;dr;

Indian Army initially wanted a conventional configuration AK derivative rifle with AUG like features i.e. a common receiver design for different, quick-changeable barrels of different lengths (thus a common platform among rifle, carbine, lmg) and translucent polymer magazines so ammo can be monitored.

a big reason entire INSAS program got dragged around for quite a lot of time was because this,and as expected DRDO back then couldn't fulfill most of these design features requested and had to remain limited with copying an AK as best as they could.

Fast forward in 2020s and you see Serbians doing it successfully, something that Indian Army initially wanted on their INSAS program in 90s.
And even if you look forward in that 2010s era Multi-Calibre Tender, this Serbian M-19 even fulfills that criteria (at least beween 7.62x39mm and 6.5x39mm for now) as well as covering what IA wanted in 90s for INSAS...

NOW, we have a proof-of-concept thing with this M-19 that all of things they initially asked were indeed possible - we just lacked means to do so. After all these years if they wish to revive those older things they better at least consult Zastava Arms for getting initial things right for making ;multi calibre-quick detachable barrel; version of INSAS or perhaps better that newer ARDE Carbine platform.

 

[Whitecollar]

This f*cking Lonewarrior guy, crushed my dreams

Guess now we have to settle with importing ammunition from Brazil and selling them to Nepal...
Sed lyf

If if you do have monaay to open such firm, opening your dukaan in India makes no sense as none of your product's gonna get inducted anytime soon and neither can you sell your maal to outside countries(that can afford to give a large order) as India lacks that kind of political influence. It will rather be better to open your facility in some armpit of Europe where labour is cheap and then use their Gobt to lobby in all under developed and developing countries(including India).

 

[Twinblade]

Serbian have attempted AK breakthrough in the past with trying to introduce bolt hold open features in standard AK with a modified magazine, AK DMR in 7.62x54, AK in NATO calibers, AK in 6.5 grendel and so on. Point being, it is still mostly AK.

Most of these attempts are targeted more towards American civilian market and little bit for their military.

Few years back this forum was infested with Poles who would jump in every thread with their Crap (Krab) artillery, MSBS/GROT rifle and whatever the name of their tank was.

When GROT entered production, it's catastrophic failures made even INSAS look good.

Take away their American civilian market and most of these European manufacturers will fold. These guns are "assembled" in American factories with "parts kits" in conformity with US laws despite a near ban on imports of firearms.

Uncle Sam permits these Eurotrash to sell in their market to keep Euro arms manufacturing alive to be useful during Syria, Ukraine and possibly WW3 like conflicts.

So, I would discount the hype around eastern euro manufacturers except CZ who have a long tradition of making guns other than AKs.

 

[Whitecollar]

View attachment 178825

Found these replies on a youtube video titled 5 worst military rifles on the planet...

 

[binayak95]

It is quite pleasant to shoot, yeas. Accurate too - maintaining it is a chore though

 

[Aditya Ballal]

View attachment 178824

View attachment 178825

Found these replies on a youtube video titled 5 worst military rifles on the planet...

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How could the first guy shoot the INSAS on full auto?

 

[ManhattanProject]

How could the first guy shoot the INSAS on full auto?

1B1 has a full auto postion.

 

[ManhattanProject]

I suspect with us replacing the Insas there is a possibility some part kits get exported to the US civilian market and i think after being rebuilt they will find it to be a very pleasant rifle. Just look at the CETME L rifle that the Spaniards made, it got poo pooed in their army too but the american gun owners love the rifle and find them pleasant to shoot and reliable. The Army want imported shit and kickbacks but ended up with an Indian rifles shoved down their throat, i suspect as issues cropped up with early production which by the way happens to every new design of rifle ever produced, they just made a mountain out of an Anthill. Later iterations have solved all the problems but they never gained back their reputation. There was complaints that the rifle was spraying hot own into the operators eye...wtf what were they doing? bathing the rifle in motor oil? I just find the claims to be either exaggerated or in this case completely made up.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

1B1 has a full auto postion.

No it does not.

https://ddpdoo.gov.in/unit/pages/OFT/rifle-5-56mm-1b1

 

[binayak95]

How could the first guy shoot the INSAS on full auto?

he said on the bipod - I suspect it was the LMG variant

 

[Twinblade]

There were plenty of issues with INSAS. The construction material, fit and finish was shoddy. If it wasn't based on AK mechanism, it wouldn't even have cleared the trials.

In the years following Kargil war, we were manufacturing lacs of INSAS every year with no quality control. By the time the issues were even acknowledged, around 80% of the production run had already been completed.

 

[indian5knight]

The biggest problem of INSAS is its weight, material, and Jamming issue. Recently I got a chance to hold SIG 716i it's lighter then INSAS trust me.

 

[ManhattanProject]

The biggest problem of INSAS is its weight, material, and Jamming issue. Recently I got a chance to hold SIG 716i it's lighter then INSAS trust me.

From my research you are right, a few hundred grams lighter.

 

[Whitecollar]

How could the first guy shoot the INSAS on full auto?

Bipod is there in INSAS LMG though and also full auto mode hence...

 

[Whitecollar]

There was complaints that the rifle was spraying hot own into the operators eye...wtf what were they doing? bathing the rifle in motor oil?

https://youtube.com/shorts/pF3wHOPvQ_s?feature=share

 

[Spadex]

Treat for your eyes

 

[Aditya Ballal]

Treat for your eyes

In case the tweet is not showing for y’all, as it wasn’t for me.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Treat for your eyes

A good weapon with good pr video you sure this Indian?