Small arms and Light Weapons

[Suryavanshi]

R I F L I N G Period

Everything else can be made...even by hand

But Rifling is also done by industrial drills, would that suffice or not?

 

[Lonewarrior]

But Rifling is also done by industrial drills, would that suffice or not?

Every process present on a gun can be substituted.

AKs have stamped receiver but you don't have any means to stamp, fine, no issues, you can easily mill it out of a piece of scrap. You don't even have that? No problem, you can rivet or screw two plates from scrap.

For smaller parts you can always forge them. No forge? Okay, use a grinder. No grinder? No issues, use casting.

But for rifling there is no substitute. Because it's not an "industrial" thing, it's something only used in firearm industry.
It's close to impossible to make quality rifling without using the machine used for rifling. Indeed there are ways (Electrochemical Maching) in which you can rifle a barrel without using any machine, but it's not very common.

 

[Super falcon]

Pakistani made assault rifle first multi caliber rifles

 

[Whitecollar]

R I F L I N G Period

Everything else can be made...even by hand

One can get cheap Rifling tools from China if they know how to get it past custams(just sayin) that can make the barrel withstand 100-150 rounds with respectable MOA accuracy.

 

[Spindrift]

But Rifling is also done by industrial drills, would that suffice or not?

As far a I know drills are used from making the bore, rifling is done using rifling buttons and they are available online, secondly the guys that made the FGC 9 they also listed out an electrochemical machining process for rifling.

 

[Suryavanshi]

As far a I know drills are used from making the bore, rifling is done using rifling buttons and they are available online, secondly the guys that made the FGC 9 they also listed out an electrochemical machining process for rifling.

Yeah no way a drill can make this pattern

 

[Suryavanshi]

still confused how the rifling is carried out.
When I tried to operate the lathe back in the days the metal shearing process was very slow and even the drill was not as fast to create such a rifling pattern. Maybe through a high speed cnc and a high quality drill bit.

 

[Lonewarrior]

One can get cheap Rifling tools from China if they know how to get it past custams(just sayin) that can make the barrel withstand 100-150 rounds with respectable MOA accuracy.

But from the beginning, the question he asked was in context of local illegal gun manufacturers. So by saying that you can get rifling machines you are defeating the whole purpose of that question; no matter how cheap that machine is.

Coz then one can easily get an used CNC machine, easily pass customs as it's not even a "dual-use" item and make the AMMR (Advanced Modular Munger Rifle)

 

[Lonewarrior]

View attachment 185060

still confused how the rifling is carried out.
When I tried to operate the lathe back in the days the metal shearing process was very slow and even the drill was not as fast to create such a rifling pattern. Maybe through a high speed cnc and a high quality drill bit.

Rifling 101
There are basically four ways of doing rifling and I'm mentioning each one with its difficult part.

1. Cut rifling; you take a cutter and cut a single groove at a time. The cutter is pulled or pushed and simultaneously rotated at the desired twist rate. Once one such groove is done the same process is repeated for each groove and usually it's something in range of 6 to 8. groove. Difficult part; your rifling machine should be dead precise.

2. Button rifling; you take a broach of tungsten carbide with 6 or 8 "buttons" on it, depending on the number of groove you want and push or pull that broach from an undersized barrel blank. Difficult part; you need a machine that can put tonnes of force while simultaneously rotating the broach.

3. CHF or cold hammer forging; perhaps the easiest process. Take a oversized blank, insert a tungsten carbide mandrel with embossed rifling and put it in a hammer forging machine. You can get a finished barrel in less than a minute. Difficult part; that CHF machine costs in millions.

4. ECM or Electrochemical Maching; you make a plastic mandrel with electrodes on them in shape of rifling, insert it in a blank and make a simple electroplating set-up. Difficult part; making a mandrel with precise electrode placement can be a pain in the ass.

 

[Spindrift]

View attachment 185060

still confused how the rifling is carried out.
When I tried to operate the lathe back in the days the metal shearing process was very slow and even the drill was not as fast to create such a rifling pattern. Maybe through a high speed cnc and a high quality drill bit.

There are gun smiting videos on Youtube, just search for rifling using rifling buttons.

 

[Spindrift]

Rifling 101
There are basically four ways of doing rifling and I'm mentioning each one with its difficult part.

1. Cut rifling; you take a cutter and cut a single groove at a time. The cutter is pulled or pushed and simultaneously rotated at the desired twist rate. Once one such groove is done the same process is repeated for each groove and usually it's something in range of 6 to 8. groove. Difficult part; your rifling machine should be dead precise.

2. Button rifling; you take a broach of tungsten carbide with 6 or 8 "buttons" on it, depending on the number of groove you want and push or pull that broach from an undersized barrel blank. Difficult part; you need a machine that can put tonnes of force while simultaneously rotating the broach.

3. CHF or cold hammer forging; perhaps the easiest process. Take a oversized blank, insert a tungsten carbide mandrel with embossed rifling and put it in a hammer forging machine. You can get a finished barrel in less than a minute. Difficult part; that CHF machine costs in millions.

4. ECM or Electrochemical Maching; you make a plastic mandrel with electrodes on them in shape of rifling, insert it in a blank and make a simple electroplating set-up. Difficult part; making a mandrel with precise electrode placement can be a pain in the ass.

About the ECM process. FGC 9 guys put out a whole tutorial for that including the designs for 3D printing a mandrel for rifling a barrel for 9 mm ammo.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Not a weapon related post but more of a MBA type question.

How did these f*ers arrive on this pricing decision? I mean what was their thought process, the rationale...
If anyone can explain, please help. It's killing me

 

[Spindrift]

Not a weapon related post but more of a MBA type question.

How did these f*ers arrive on this pricing decision? I mean what was their thought process, the rationale...
If anyone can explain, please help. It's killing me
View attachment 185167

Because they have monopoly and government banned import of foreign weapons for civilian during the 80s and as such it is a sellers market.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Not a weapon related post but more of a MBA type question.

How did these f*ers arrive on this pricing decision? I mean what was their thought process, the rationale...
If anyone can explain, please help. It's killing me
View attachment 185167

Is meant to discourage buyers I think, so that people dont buy guns without a very valid reason.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Arre how the F can a revolver cost 24,570 rupees more than a pistol!?

 

[SilentlAssassin265]

Arre how the F can a revolver cost 24,570 rupees more than a pistol!?

Revolver never jams, a pistol may jam sometimes.
Apart from that metal quality in this revolver is much better you can check customer reviews on YouTube.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

View attachment 185058

View attachment 185059

Yeah no way a drill can make this pattern

To be fair, that seems like artillery rifling, in gun barrels its lot less number of grooves, sometimes as low as 3-4.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Not a weapon related post but more of a MBA type question.

How did these f*ers arrive on this pricing decision? I mean what was their thought process, the rationale...
If anyone can explain, please help. It's killing me
View attachment 185167

Price is there to discourage the general public from buying firearms. If you're not a zombie already by having to go through the herculean effort of getting a license.
Also maybe because India doesn't have any meaningful legal domestic gun market. No need to compete because private players aren't allowed to sell to the public.

 

[Spindrift]

Arre how the F can a revolver cost 24,570 rupees more than a pistol!?

In that particular model they are apparently using some kind to titanium alloy, hence the cost.

 

[Spadex]

Price is there to discourage the general public from buying firearms. If you're not a zombie already by having to go through the herculean effort of getting a license.
Also maybe because India doesn't have any meaningful legal domestic gun market. No need to compete because private players aren't allowed to sell to the public.

Just saying OFB and defence PSU does that to army also. That's why private players entering defence specially small arms space is discouraged by many Babus including serving army officers babus