Small arms and Light Weapons

[Fire and groove]

I thought Azerbaijani military standard issue weapon was AK-74M but turns out even their SOF used it, despite having tavors, m4s, etc. Plus I saw a tweet saying that SOF operatives felt AK-74M was superior than others.
Look at the magazine, it's pretty rare nowadays!!

It isn't. 5.45x39mm is a terribly weak caliber to begin with, then there's the all-pervasive modularity issues all AKs have. I wouldn't take their "experience" seriously. The Azerbaijaini military won because of it's drones and network centricity as well as proxy/ logistical support from Turkey, not because of their ground forces.

 

[Johny_Baba]

It's just another shitty INSAS with extra steps. Why would any logical institution spend hundreds of millions of dollars on what is basically the INSAS with a shorter barrel and cosmetic changes. Tell me, what exactly does amogh bring to the table? Did they even make it bolt free? It has a single picatinny rail, where are we supposed to mount the foregrip? What happens if the infantry has to operate in an urban environment at night? Where do they mount their PEQs?

I'd rather get shot and be done with than go through the torture of using this DPSU excrement-of-a-rifle.

First of all,Amogh was made as per GSQR provided by the armed forces in old times, if they did not ask for modern stuff on it then ARDE//OFB is not gonna provide it as they have to follow it.

Second, Whatever goochie gear you would like to add on Amogh can be mounted on it by putting rails on 3-6-9-12 positions. Going ahead with makeover with FAB style kit is the way here, then why import a similar ruskie rifle with rails doing same job ? Does Sterling have even one rail on top to start with ? Army still kept using it than going ahead with Amogh, or opted for MSMC//JVPC which wasn't ready.

I'm tired of all these old rants on OMG IT DOESN'T HAVE RAILS REEEEEEEEEEEE
like bitching for something that is much simple to upgrade nowadays huh,
comparing to Sterling SMG that our army still uses Amogh definitely could've been an upgrade huh.

"Did they even make it bolt free?" what is meant by bolt free here ? like one of those old gen SMGs with unlocked breech mechanism with bolt face having extractor etc ? or is it Bolt Catch ?
because if it's second then Amogh is based on INSAS which is based on AK and except perhaps Yugoslavian variant and (indirect variant) Dragunov rifle and so no direct AK variant had Bolt Catch (and magazines with followers that could actuate such bolt catch) on them, INSAS didn't have it so obviously Amogh wasn't going to have it and since it wasn't part of the GSQR those guys in ARDE/OFB wasn't going to add it.
Then again Sterling doesn't have bolt catch, neither Western SF's favourite MP5 have it.Even JVPC doesn't have bolt catch despite being Indian Army's preference over Amogh.

 

[Fire and groove]

First of all,Amogh was made as per GSQR provided by the armed forces in old times, if they do not ask for modern stuff on it then ARDE//OFB is not gonna provide it as they have to follow this.

Second, Whatever goochie gear you would like to add on Amogh can be mounted on it by putting rails on 3-6-9-12 positions. Going ahead with makeover with FAB style kit is the way here, then why import a similar ruskie rifle with rails doing same job ?

I'm tired of all these old rants on OMG IT DOESN'T HAVE RAILS REEEEEEEEEEEE
like bitching for something that is much simple to upgrade nowadays huh,
comparing to Sterling SMG that our army still uses Amogh definitely could've been an upgrade huh.

"Did they even make it bolt free?" what is meant by bolt free here ? like one of those old gen SMGs with unlocked breech mechanism with bolt face having extractor etc ? or is it Bolt Catch ?
because if it's second then Amogh is based on INSAS which is based on AK and except perhaps Yugoslavian variant and (indirect variant) Dragunov rifle and so no direct AK variant had Bolt Catch (and magazines with followers that could actuate such bolt catch) on them, INSAS didn't have it so obviously Amogh wasn't going to have it and since it wasn't part of the GSQR those guys in ARDE/OFB wasn't going to add it.
Then again Sterling doesn't have bolt catch, neither Western SF's favourite MP5 have it.Even JVPC doesn't have bolt catch despite being Indian Army's preference over Amogh.

I don't care about the rails alone, the point there was to highlight how it can't even apply basic contemporary improvements effectively. But since you want to go over the intricacies.
Amogh doesn't have a free floating barrel, and yes, I was taking about the Bolt catch and bolt release system. I also forgot to mention that they STILL HAVEN'T REPLACED THE FUCKING RIVETS AFTER 40 YEARS.

You're also confusing the basic difference between a carbine (intermediate caliber small arms system with a shorter barrel for CQB and medium distance versatility) and an SMG (pistol caliber small arms system meant for CQB alone). Not to mention the assault rifle (AK-203) and the carbines are different procurements.
Then there's the fact that the west is already moved away from the application of SMGs into carbines to begin with.
Also, why the fuck would anyone buy a rifle with the goal of modernization when it apparently has to be modified by a third party in the end anyway? Instead of, I don't know, saving time, money, logistics and sanity by just buying a contemporary rifle?
Your statement was about why the army didn't acquire the Amogh instead of the JVPC recently, so the point about GSQR is irrelevant entirely and it doesn't change anything about the fact that it's still a rivet based, long stroke (instead of short stroke) design that only has the pro of being lighter. Does it have an adjustable buttstock? Does it have a barrel with better metallurgy and technological design? Does it have anything modern at all to be worthy for procurement today??
Oh and the sterling was phased out by the army a while back, try and keep up.

 

[Johny_Baba]

I don't care about the rails alone, the point there was to highlight how it can't even apply basic contemporary improvements effectively. But since you want to go over the intricacies.
Amogh doesn't have a free floating barrel, and yes, I was taking about the Bolt catch and bolt release system. I also forgot to mention that they STILL HAVEN'T REPLACED THE FUCKING RIVETS AFTER 40 YEARS.

You're also confusing the basic difference between a carbine (intermediate caliber small arms system with a shorter barrel for CQB and medium distance versatility) and an SMG (pistol caliber small arms system meant for CQB alone). Not to mention the assault rifle (AK-203) and the carbines are different procurements.
Then there's the fact that the west is already moved away from the application of SMGs into carbines to begin with.
Also, why the fuck would anyone buy a rifle with the goal of modernization when it apparently has to be modified by a third party in the end anyway? Instead of, I don't know, saving time, money, logistics and sanity by just buying a contemporary rifle?
Your statement was about why the army didn't acquire the Amogh instead of the JVPC recently, so the point about GSQR is irrelevant entirely and it doesn't change anything about the fact that it's still a rivet based, long stroke (instead of short stroke) design that only has the pro of being lighter. Does it have an adjustable buttstock? Does it have a barrel with better metallurgy and technological design? Does it have anything modern at all to be worthy for procurement today??
Oh and the sterling was phased out by the army a while back, try and keep up.

This is the problem with newcomers, would not bother about reading old posts about said subjects but will jump the gun in discussion, sometimes bringing irrelevant stuff,

Here, imma go reply pointwise for better explanation one last time,

Your statement was about why the army didn't acquire the Amogh instead of the JVPC recently, so the point about GSQR is irrelevant entirely and it doesn't change anything about the fact that it's still a rivet based, long stroke (instead of short stroke) design that only has the pro of being lighter. Does it have an adjustable buttstock? Does it have a barrel with better metallurgy and technological design? Does it have anything modern at all to be worthy for procurement today??

I never said anything about Army should buy Amogh for CURRENT requirements, even i agree with it that it doesn't have proper attachment options and blah blah as per current standards.
My reply was simple in reply to @ALBY 's post where he agreed to someone's post that we should've brought those 9mm Vitayz-SN like 9mm kalashnikov submachine guns from rossiya, to which i told him that we already have its equivalent platform here in Amogh so why import when we could DEVELOP one 9mm version from same.He inquired later if Amogh was a worthy contender because only Coast Guards and some police units use it after army rejecting it to which i replied that it is serving fine enough with given examples of Navy and police units.

THEN YOU started throwing tantrums of OMG AMOGH THIS AMOGH THAT NO BOLT FREE REEEE
so Just FYI,
KEEP THE TIMEFRAME AND REQUIREMENTS IN MIND PLEASE,
>Around 2000s, Back then Army raised requirement to replace those Sterling "9mm Carbines" (NOT MY FUCKING DEFINITION OR UNDERSTANDING OF CARBINE, THIS IS WHAT ARMY CALLS IT, BEFORE YOU THROW ANOTHER TANTRUM THAT I DON'T KNOW DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CARBINE AND AN SMG ) with a "modern" CQB carbine.
based on the requirements OF THOSE TIME, a GSQR was set and later came RFI etc
>Based on the GSQR of THOSE TIME Amogh was designed back in 2005, with MSMC being a competitor from another factory,
>Army tested both,Amogh was rejected over MSMC which was still in prototype stage back then. OFBs found another customers in Coast Guard, Navy and various police units who were keen to replace their stock of Sterling "Carbines" and sold some 30000 Amogh to all these, later Production of Amogh stopped due to lack of further orders. MSMC on the other hand kept stretching and had to go through another redesign with ARDE jumping in named JVPC which further delayed the replacement of Sterling in Army
>Among all these, Army themselves changed requirements and now asked for 5.56x45mm TROO Carbine for replacement of Sterling "Carbines" (sic) as CQB weapon etc, meanwhile in many units Sterling was SUPPLEMENTED BY (not replaced entirely) other alternatives like B&T MP9, Micro Uzi etc, while Sterling was still issued to some jawans.
>Army's rejection of Amogh and insistence for then MSMC - which later went into limbo after Army themselves changed requirement with 5.56x45mm firearm, resulted in all things mention in point ^above^ AS WELL AS loss of some lives who were given Sterling, as being open bolt gun and so many soldiers who were given it suffered misfires and injured themselves, sometimes resulting in death.Last time i read about such incident was in 2019 September if i remember correctly.
SO TELL ME HOW FOR 2000s ERA REQUIREMENT AMOGH WAS A BAAAAAAAAD OPTION COMPARED TO STERLING THAT IT WAS MEANT TO REPLACE ?

As for it did not have free-floating barrel, has riveted receiver and etc,So what ? it was made as per GSQR-Requirements of THOSE TIMES and for its time and requirements it was perfectly fine firearm, much better than Sterling which is an open bolt SMG and has no single attachment point or rail on it,
And since Free-Floating Barrel has been brought, old post by @vampyrbladez on this very same thread has already covered it (It's for AK-203 but works on Amogh too).

1. G 36 under sustained fire had barrel seating in receiver that deformed. This was because of free floating barrels. Unless you have aluminium or heavy polymer as material, it causes issues.

2. A free floating barrel means more dirt and grit as compared to a non free floating barrel. This is OK for special forces but for your average grunt who is deployed in the field for longer exposure to the element, it can have detrimental effects.

3. If you have long stroke and short stroke pistons like Galil/AKM and HK416 respectively, your maintenance is less frequent but more time consuming due to the higher non of parts, especially in HK416 style rifles die to lower tolerances in manufacturing for quality.

As for Rivets, Granted it has riveted construction as it's an INSAS derivative BUT IT STILL HAS LESSER RIVETS THAN INSAS IF WE DO NOT COUNT COMMON RIVETS ON ALL STAMPED RECEIVER KALASHNIKOVS AT CERTAIN PLACES for more info refer to this graphic that i made,

Rivets/Pins mentioned in Yellow,Orange and Light Blue are already there on any Stamped Receiver AK, only ones in Red Ones are extra as mentioned in graphic above - and even then the no. of rivets used for fastening receiver rails is less than there on INSAS so more or less it's OK.

Regarding Amogh not having Adjustable Buttstock,
remember we bought AK-203 without same thing too just recently in 2020-2021, despite russians offering us their version of AK-203 with folding + length adjustable buttstock.
Somehow Army didin't and still doesn't consider it a feature to have so why blame Amogh only.

"the point about GSQR is irrelevant entirely"
Apparently our system doesn't work that way and BECAUSE OF THAT it is damn relevant
Some old posts for you where we were discussing about various local kalashnikovs (Ghaatak,Trichy etc) not having full length rails, tactical fire selectors etc.

I don`t disagree with your ideas, the changes you talked about are fine, But changes you think that should be there on rifle may not be there when requirement were set in given time. Its GSQR pre date both MCIWS and Excalibur.

Though such changes should enhance rifles efficiency without degrading solider`s efficiency, And should be taken under consideration.

First know how R&D system works of a country before thinking ahead ..

Requirement are prepared by Defense forces which are put into design, If the requirement is no flash hider then their won`t be a flash hider.

Don't you think dada it's a bit problem with us ?

DRDO/OFB make stuff 'STRICTLY' as per requirements given by Defense Forces.

What about innovation ? why don't they made something of their own and present it to our forces ? (I hope you get the message)

The requirement part is bullshit,show me one document where forces have specified any one particular type of muzzle device.They can only specify the caliber and to some extent barrel length and stock (fixed or folding) nothing else(in this case most probably only the caliber was dictated),rest they can ask for improvement over the prototype provided to them.

Show me one document where they withheld the OFB from designing a modern rifle in 7.62x39mm.
OFB trichy did produce a prototype in different design,but there were problems with it in trials -


It is 2017 ,people are producing much refined and improved AK platform rifles ,such as :


Galil ace

AK -alfa

AK 400

They could have provided a modern design ,improving over the shortcoming of an ak platform .They should have provided a hybrid muzzle brake that would have reduced the recoil as well as controlled the vertical climb,but they didn't. This is because of sheer incompetence and nothing else.

@ghost

Such information about requirements and requirement changes are confidential in nature, These are not RFI or RFP which your ideas are based on,Such information are shared only within specific GOI branches ..

More of such post which contain rant will be deleted in future, you have been warned ..

Excalibur MK1A was a design completely by OFB, It passed its trails back in 2003 at MHOW but was not inducted despite it was better in many ways to 1B1 in service like lesser moving parts, light weight furniture, Such treatment discourage innovation and of-course their is competition where older design are given first preference which further discourage innovation ..

Indian forces see west for innovation which are tested by them in battle and They have little confidence among their own scientific community, They demand only modified copy through its home grown industry, They have little or no faith in new technologies or changes, Though their are exceptions people but are rare ..

=================

This has to be change, Seriously ..

Regarding GSQR in general-
GSQR is specific in nature for physical parameters such as length, mass, ambidextrous features, provision of Picatinny rails etc .It is generic in terms of design of the rifle such as muzzle brake. ARDE and OFB design a prototype as per these GSQR, then it undergoes trials .After it has passed all the trials and modified as per the improvement suggested the final design is frozen.Then OFB carry out its production as per the final design.


Regarding Ghatak -
It is not based on Army GSQR as being suggested,it is a in house development done by OFB to gain workload for future.

Providing of workload in Small Arms group of factories.

Parallely OFB has undertaken following IRD projects(Industrial Research and Development ) to obtain workload from users:

7.62mm Assault Rifle (Ghaatak) : RFI, SAF has developed this weapon and successfully trial evaluated by BoO of MHA. PMS allocation received for 3007 nos.

http://bpms.org.in/documents/actn-tkn-on-16th-scm-new-x3ta.pdf

GSQR are not available for public reading, What you defined is your idea based on public reading of RFI or RFP ..

From the source, contrary to what you are trying to convey ..



What you provided is action taken report,ts not about or Army or Ghatak either or General idea about the procedure which this is regarding, The report says obvious nature of workload but you made selected highlights of the parts to support your own opinion under the word suggestion of your and not the article, I, If given chance anyone can bring any article and claim anything in such manner ..

This thread about TAR, Let me bring in something which suggest TAR QR is prepared by Paramilitary and Army is not a part of it but Ghatak`s ..

Do send me something which support your claim, which also convey that GOI runs a banana republic ..

Regarding the topic :

From 2015-2016 annual report ..

TL;DR;

Amogh was made as per GSQR of that time reason it is like what it is, then Army choses one that wasn't ready yet and later 'goal-shifts' to even throw that one into limbo while keep using older Sterlings, so is it Amogh's fault for being so 'backward' ?

Also, why the fuck would anyone buy a rifle with the goal of modernization when it apparently has to be modified by a third party in the end anyway? Instead of, I don't know, saving time, money, logistics and sanity by just buying a contemporary rifle?

Agree entirely but again, GSQR of the time didn't ask for additional attachment points for torch or vertical grip etc so it wasn't added on it, DOESN'T MEAN WE COULDN'T HAVE BROUGHT THOSE TO AMOGH IF IT WAS INDUCTED AND IN FUTURE = CURRENT TIME REQUIREMENTS WERE RAISED FOR THAT - that was my point, i didn't say about bringing Amogh first then run separate tender for upgrading it, but apparently we upgraded even older rifles than Amogh = all those 90s era Romanian AKs and later Kalashnikovs with FAB style kits SO AMOGH COULD'VE UPGRADED IN SIMILAR MANNER TOO IF...
Then (going back to Alby's post) WHY BRINGING RUSKIE 9MM KALASHNIKOV WHEN WE COULD'VE DONE SIMILAR HERE WITH AMOGH IN 9MM...THAT WAS MY POINT.

Finally asking one again, Keeping Timeframe and Requirements of those times in mind, How was Amogh bad choice over Sterling that it was intended to replace?
i.e. how is this one Bad

over this ?

 

[Marliii]

With all the things army is doing recently issuing new rfi for 93k carbines well knowing total req is 300k+ for which there would be another tender.delaying LMG trials for anil ambani ak203 in ultra claimax of getting scraped or not.we are really messing things up

 

[Fire and groove]

This is the problem with newcomers, would not bother about reading old posts about said subjects but will jump the gun in discussion, sometimes bringing irrelevant stuff,

Here, imma go reply pointwise for better explanation one last time,



I never said anything about Army should buy Amogh for CURRENT requirements, even i agree with it that it doesn't have proper attachment options and blah blah as per current standards.
My reply was simple in reply to @ALBY 's post where he agreed to someone's post that we should've brought those 9mm Vitayz-SN like 9mm kalashnikov submachine guns from rossiya, to which i told him that we already have its equivalent platform here in Amogh so why import when we could DEVELOP one 9mm version from same.He inquired later if Amogh was a worthy contender because only Coast Guards and some police units use it after army rejecting it to which i replied that it is serving fine enough with given examples of Navy and police units.

THEN YOU started throwing tantrums of OMG AMOGH THIS AMOGH THAT NO BOLT FREE REEEE
so Just FYI,
KEEP THE TIMEFRAME AND REQUIREMENTS IN MIND PLEASE,
>Around 2000s, Back then Army raised requirement to replace those Sterling "9mm Carbines" (NOT MY FUCKING DEFINITION OR UNDERSTANDING OF CARBINE, THIS IS WHAT ARMY CALLS IT, BEFORE YOU THROW ANOTHER TANTRUM THAT I DON'T KNOW DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CARBINE AND AN SMG ) with a "modern" CQB carbine.
based on the requirements OF THOSE TIME, a GSQR was set and later came RFI etc
>Based on the GSQR of THOSE TIME Amogh was designed back in 2005, with MSMC being a competitor from another factory,
>Army tested both,Amogh was rejected over MSMC which was still in prototype stage back then. OFBs found another customers in Coast Guard, Navy and various police units who were keen to replace their stock of Sterling "Carbines" and sold some 30000 Amogh to all these, later Production of Amogh stopped due to lack of further orders. MSMC on the other hand kept stretching and had to go through another redesign with ARDE jumping in named JVPC which further delayed the replacement of Sterling in Army
>Among all these, Army themselves changed requirements and now asked for 5.56x45mm TROO Carbine for replacement of Sterling "Carbines" (sic) as CQB weapon etc, meanwhile in many units Sterling was SUPPLEMENTED BY (not replaced entirely) other alternatives like B&T MP9, Micro Uzi etc, while Sterling was still issued to some jawans.
>Army's rejection of Amogh and insistence for then MSMC - which later went into limbo after Army themselves changed requirement with 5.56x45mm firearm, resulted in all things mention in point ^above^ AS WELL AS loss of some lives who were given Sterling, as being open bolt gun and so many soldiers who were given it suffered misfires and injured themselves, sometimes resulting in death.Last time i read about such incident was in 2019 September if i remember correctly.
SO TELL ME HOW FOR 2000s ERA REQUIREMENT AMOGH WAS A BAAAAAAAAD OPTION COMPARED TO STERLING THAT IT WAS MEANT TO REPLACE ?

As for it did not have free-floating barrel, has riveted receiver and etc,So what ? it was made as per GSQR-Requirements of THOSE TIMES and for its time and requirements it was perfectly fine firearm, much better than Sterling which is an open bolt SMG and has no single attachment point or rail on it,
And since Free-Floating Barrel has been brought, old post by @vampyrbladez on this very same thread has already covered it (It's for AK-203 but works on Amogh too).

As for Rivets, Granted it has riveted construction as it's an INSAS derivative BUT IT STILL HAS LESSER RIVETS THAN INSAS IF WE DO NOT COUNT COMMON RIVETS ON ALL STAMPED RECEIVER KALASHNIKOVS AT CERTAIN PLACES for more info refer to this graphic that i made,
View attachment 83891
Rivets/Pins mentioned in Yellow,Orange and Light Blue are already there on any Stamped Receiver AK, only ones in Red Ones are extra as mentioned in graphic above - and even then the no. of rivets used for fastening receiver rails is less than there on INSAS so more or less it's OK.

Regarding Amogh not having Adjustable Buttstock,
remember we bought AK-203 without same thing too just recently in 2020-2021, despite russians offering us their version of AK-203 with folding + length adjustable buttstock.
Somehow Army didin't and still doesn't consider it a feature to have so why blame Amogh only.

"the point about GSQR is irrelevant entirely"
Apparently our system doesn't work that way and BECAUSE OF THAT it is damn relevant
Some old posts for you where we were discussing about various local kalashnikovs (Ghaatak,Trichy etc) not having full length rails, tactical fire selectors etc.










TL;DR;

Amogh was made as per GSQR of that time reason it is like what it is, then Army choses one that wasn't ready yet and later 'goal-shifts' to even throw that one into limbo while keep using older Sterlings, so is it Amogh's fault for being so 'backward' ?


Agree entirely but again, GSQR of the time didn't ask for additional attachment points for torch or vertical grip etc so it wasn't added on it, DOESN'T MEAN WE COULDN'T HAVE BROUGHT THOSE TO AMOGH IF IT WAS INDUCTED AND IN FUTURE = CURRENT TIME REQUIREMENTS WERE RAISED FOR THAT - that was my point, i didn't say about bringing Amogh first then run separate tender for upgrading it, but apparently we upgraded even older rifles than Amogh = all those 90s era Romanian AKs and later Kalashnikovs with FAB style kits SO AMOGH COULD'VE UPGRADED IN SIMILAR MANNER TOO IF...
Then (going back to Alby's post) WHY BRINGING RUSKIE 9MM KALASHNIKOV WHEN WE COULD'VE DONE SIMILAR HERE WITH AMOGH IN 9MM...THAT WAS MY POINT.

Finally asking one again, Keeping Timeframe and Requirements of those times in mind, How was Amogh bad choice over Sterling that it was intended to replace?
i.e. how is this one Bad
View attachment 83892
over this ?
View attachment 83893

Because it takes decades to replace afterwards. Short sighted procurements will never end well, regardless of what it's replacing. Frankly it's better the army changed the tender, guess the DRDO didn't learn it's lesson when it tried to design a 5.56x30mm caliber carbine.

 

[Vishalreddy3]

Russian Marine with suppressed AKM

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

Because it takes decades to replace afterwards. Short sighted procurements will never end well, regardless of what it's replacing. Frankly it's better the army changed the tender, guess the DRDO didn't learn it's lesson when it tried to design a 5.56x30mm caliber carbine.

We are procuring for last 12 years .
Its sooper long sighted

 

[Vishalreddy3]

Three finalised US Army weapons to replace M16/M4!!

 

[Marliii]

Three finalised US Army weapons to replace M16/M4!!
View attachment 84172

Textrons gun has now got a lot of changes now it looks less bulky

 

[FalconSlayers]

Three finalised US Army weapons to replace M16/M4!!
View attachment 84172

All 3 look very ugly.

 

[Haldilal]

All 3 look very ugly.

Ya'll Nibbiars aaj kitne chaade hai?.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Ya'll Nibbiars aaj kitne chaade hai?.

Ya’ll Nibbiars

 

[Haldilal]

Ya’ll Nibbiars
View attachment 84174

Ya'll Nibbiars

 

[FalconSlayers]

Ya'll Nibbiars
View attachment 84175

Yaar Haldi bas kar pls

 

[FalconSlayers]

Ya’ll Nibbiars

 

[Johny_Baba]

Three finalised US Army weapons to replace M16/M4!!
View attachment 84172

It is going to be SIG one, with either SIG or General Dynamics version of ammunition.

some of the Squad Automatic Weapons (M249//M27) would be replaced with General Dynamics one.

Textron has very less chance.

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

It is going to be SIG one, with either SIG or General Dynamics version of ammunition.

some of the Squad Automatic Weapons (M249//M27) would be replaced with General Dynamics one.

Textron has very less chance.

US going for BULLPUP? i will buy ticket for this show.

 

[Johny_Baba]

US going for BULLPUP? i will buy ticket for this show.

It's about design, GD one has brought a well designed muzzle compensator-suppressor combo that's proven its worth in field trials and of course the caliber,while others are still relying on common suppressors, so yeah,
not all but some orders for SAW would go to that.

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

It's about design, GD one has brought a well designed muzzle compensator-suppressor combo that's proven its worth in field trials and of course the caliber,while others are still relying on common suppressors, so yeah,
not all but some orders for SAW would go to that.

i have no hate for bullpup. i like the design but lets agree on one point Ex servicemen in us who all run youtube channel always say they dont like bullpup generally.

i saw a video where 4-5 guys sitting together and giving all the hate to TAR-21.