Small arms and Light Weapons

[vampyrbladez]

I did read that they also mentioned them being lighter but expensive..

Do you have any cost comparison data for Ak 203 / 15 vs Caracal carbine and Sig 716 with their associated accessories

Pages 260 - 268 onward.....................................

 

[Flying Dagger]

Pages 260 - 268 onward.....................................

Nothing specific ..

What I have understood based on Google baba

That while a standard Ak 203 which will.include accessories will cost around 1000 dollar +

Caracal will be around 1600 - 1700 dollar with accessories and Sig 716 around 1500 dollar +


Ak is unnecessary we should have gone for a carbine with 6.8 round perhaps. Instead of having so many rounds to play around with . I am no expert though.

 

[republic_roi97]

1) Trichy Assault Rifle to be used in place of AK 203 for the Armed Forces.

Wtf ? Then what's the purpose of new Ak203 factory in Amethi ? Are they planning to export it to Russia ? Or making India exporter of Ak 203 in general ?

 

[Flying Dagger]

So a new trend is emerging where MHA is the primary customer of OFB. Four things can be gathered from new thus far :

1) Trichy Assault Rifle to be used in place of AK 203 for the Armed Forces.

2) JVPC for CQB Carbine role in place of the CAR 816 Carbine for the Armed Forces.

3) Excalibur INSAS variants to have some orders in the near term to replace all INSAS 1B1 rifles.

4) 7.62 Ishapore Assault Rifle to be used in place of SIG 716 G2 Patrol for the Armed Forces.

This looks like a very well designed and excellent procurement plan. Hats off to MoD and MHA for using their brains for the first time in decades!

That armed Force isn't Indian Army . Under MHA we may see CRPF etc at most going for these.

Indian Army is going for Sig and Ak 203 only carbine is still in question May be there OFB could score but their poor quality control issue may work against them.

I hope BSF also gets Sig and Ak 203 instead of relying on OFB rifles.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Wtf ? Then what's the purpose of new Ak203 factory in Amethi ? Are they planning to export it to Russia ? Or making India exporter of Ak 203 in general ?

I was talking of MHA requirements as in MHA will use it in place of AK 203 for the Armed Forces.

 

[mohitbhagat]

Ohh dear we were going to buy AK 103 it was our slight good luck and russian business sense to earn money they told dumb Babu's to go for AK 203 . But now since AK 15 are cleared should we buy them?

No matter what comes we will be going light ahead from the cheap OFB copies

What is the cost of AK 15 rifle and accessories compare to SIG 716 or caracal carbine?

Well what can you expect from a delegation which had just one guy from the armed forces and all others were babus cashing in on a chance to visit Russia for some vodka on govt money

 

[mohitbhagat]

The AK 15 is basically a free floating barrel AK 203. Free floating barrels are great for DMR but become expensive for general infantry. The AK 203 is a modernised and more ergonomic variant of AK 103.

All New and latest AR15 pattern rifles are coming with free floated barrels and can be bought at a decent price. I wonder what was the difference in price of ak203 and ak15. If the price difference was not big then they should have definitely selected ak15

 

[Aaj ka hero]

Never knew, where to post this but here it is,it's looking like USA is looking for new rifle called M5 to replace M4 carbine look like we were not the only ones to replace our guns.
Also some details about it.
6.5mm Grendel round.
Modular(and some were questioning what the heck is MCIWS).
And gas stroke use like hk weapon system.
And yeah less cleaning, Vietnam and afghan nightmare don't go.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Never knew, where to post this but here it is,it's looking like USA is looking for new rifle called M5 to replace M4 carbine look like we were not the only ones to replace our guns.
Also some details about it.
6.5mm Grendel round.
Modular(and some were questioning what the heck is MCIWS).
And gas stroke use like hk weapon system.
And yeah less cleaning, Vietnam and afghan nightmare don't go.

Pages 260 - 268. Already discussed rather extensively.

 

[vampyrbladez]

All New and latest AR15 pattern rifles are coming with free floated barrels and can be bought at a decent price. I wonder what was the difference in price of ak203 and ak15. If the price difference was not big then they should have definitely selected ak15

AK 15 and other free floating rifle are not apt for sustained fire volume (unless thicker barrel) and long term field exposure. They require higher maintenance and thus are issued only to special forces.

AK 15 is far more costlier and has no viable difference. Russians took pity on MoD and advised them to buy AK 203 first and later AK 15 to ramp up production capabilities and then make variants.

If army is thinking of manufacturing AK 204 as well, then AK 15 is a short step away.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aninews.in/news/national/general-news/troops-to-get-modified-version-of-ak-203-assault-rifle-for-counter-insurgency-operations-in-j-k20190407163658/?amp=1

SiG 716 Patrol G2 is free floating barrel BTW.

 

[ALBY]

AK 15 and other free floating rifle are not apt for sustained fire volume (unless thicker barrel) and long term field exposure. They require higher maintenance and thus are issued only to special forces.

AK 15 is far more costlier and has no viable difference. Russians took pity on MoD and advised them to buy AK 203 first and later AK 15 to ramp up production capabilities and then make variants.

If army is thinking of manufacturing AK 204 as well, then AK 15 is a short step away.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aninews.in/news/national/general-news/troops-to-get-modified-version-of-ak-203-assault-rifle-for-counter-insurgency-operations-in-j-k20190407163658/?amp=1

SiG 716 Patrol G2 is free floating barrel BTW.

Dont think it needs high maintenance, as HK416, Galil Ace all are as reliavle as Ak plus gives out heavy sustained fire power as supposed from an AR.
Dont get your point about the inability of free floating weapons to give sustained fire power.Are u comparing them with conventional rifles or LMGs? . Never came across that issue anywhere else.
On cost issue, we all can agree, but considered with that of Galil, Scar or HK it would be much less the cost of Ak15, thanks to the comparatively less production cost in Russia.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Dont think it needs high maintenance, as HK416, Galil Ace all are as reliavle as Ak plus gives out heavy sustained fire power as supposed from an AR.
Dont get your point about the inability of free floating weapons to give sustained fire power.Are u comparing them with conventional rifles or LMGs? . Never came across that issue anywhere else.
On cost issue, we all can agree, but considered with that of Galil, Scar or HK it would be much less the cost of Ak15, thanks to the comparatively less production cost in Russia.

1. G 36 under sustained fire had barrel seating in receiver that deformed. This was because of free floating barrels. Unless you have aluminium or heavy polymer as material, it causes issues.

2. A free floating barrel means more dirt and grit as compared to a non free floating barrel. This is OK for special forces but for your average grunt who is deployed in the field for longer exposure to the element, it can have detrimental effects.

3. If you have long stroke and short stroke pistons like Galil/AKM and HK416 respectively, your maintenance is less frequent but more time consuming due to the higher non of parts, especially in HK416 style rifles die to lower tolerances in manufacturing for quality.

 

[uoftotaku]

1. G 36 under sustained fire had barrel seating in receiver that deformed. This was because of free floating barrels. Unless you have aluminium or heavy polymer as material, it causes issues.

2. A free floating barrel means more dirt and grit as compared to a non free floating barrel. This is OK for special forces but for your average grunt who is deployed in the field for longer exposure to the element, it can have detrimental effects.

3. If you have long stroke and short stroke pistons like Galil/AKM and HK416 respectively, your maintenance is less frequent but more time consuming due to the higher non of parts, especially in HK416 style rifles die to lower tolerances in manufacturing for quality.

1. G36 problems were caused not because of free floating design but because HK had thinned down the barrel to bare minimum in effort to save weight. The thin and poorly ventilated polymer handguard also caused overheating which multiplied the warping over sustained fire.

2. Dirt in the area around the barrel has no effect on the gun as the primary firing mechanism is sealed off. Unless something flammable like grass gets in there its not an issue. The vents on the handguard are also not so small to allow stuff to accumulate inside...if it gets in..it can just as easily get out.

3. Both styles have their pros and cons. Reliability wise long stroke is definitely better but short stroke is preferred by SF as its easier to use suppression aids. Field maintenance wise I personally like the short stroke types especially the standard FN models due to lower number of parts that need cleaning. A lot of the internal mechanisms don't really get dirty unlike long stroke where everything needs to be cleaned.

 

[vampyrbladez]

1. G36 problems were caused not because of free floating design but because HK had thinned down the barrel to bare minimum in effort to save weight. The thin and poorly ventilated polymer handguard also caused overheating which multiplied the warping over sustained fire.

2. Dirt in the area around the barrel has no effect on the gun as the primary firing mechanism is sealed off. Unless something flammable like grass gets in there its not an issue. The vents on the handguard are also not so small to allow stuff to accumulate inside...if it gets in..it can just as easily get out.

3. Both styles have their pros and cons. Reliability wise long stroke is definitely better but short stroke is preferred by SF as its easier to use suppression aids. Field maintenance wise I personally like the short stroke types especially the standard FN models due to lower number of parts that need cleaning. A lot of the internal mechanisms don't really get dirty unlike long stroke where everything needs to be cleaned.

Fair enough but some contentions do arise.

1. Polymer is a no go here. If the barrel is allowed to vibrate as per it's natural harmonics, surely some additional heat is generated. This may be mitigated with finned and/or skeletonized barrel shroud made of aluminium.

2. If you have M-LOK rails on an AR 15 style rifle doesn't the skeletonized barrel shroud have greater ingestion of foreign particles?

3. FN model has a locked rotating bolt when in chamber unlike AKs where the cattle ranch gate type selector exposes the chamber to grit and dirt. However the bolt has an exposed lug which is highly annoying due to it's habit of catching on everything when prone.

 

[padmaraj]

Stumpp Scheule Defence 7.62/39
Undergoing testing.

 

[republic_roi97]

Stumpp Scheule Defence 7.62/39
Undergoing testing.View attachment 39098

That's Bangalore based manufacturer right ?

 

[Gessler]

Stumpp Scheule Defence 7.62/39
Undergoing testing.View attachment 39098

Evidently, an AK-based platform. Nothing wrong about that though...if you want a 7.62x39 rifle the Kalashnikov design is the way to go - provided you make certain improvements by way of 'Galil-izing' the design...some of which SSS seems to have done.

It also appears the handguard is designed for free floating the barrel, somewhat similar to the design offered by Texas Weapon Systems.

Overall, a nice effort.

 

[padmaraj]

Evidently, an AK-based platform. Nothing wrong about that though...if you want a 7.62x39 rifle the Kalashnikov design is the way to go - provided you make certain improvements by way of 'Galil-izing' the design...some of which SSS seems to have done.

It also appears the handguard is designed for free floating the barrel, somewhat similar to the design offered by Texas Weapon Systems.

Overall, a nice effort.

The barrel freefloats,
The magazine and trigger group is integrated like in SCAR. It’s a short stroke piston will full picatinny top and
Bottom rail:

 

[vampyrbladez]

Stumpp Scheule Defence 7.62/39
Undergoing testing.View attachment 39098

@OFB this is how you make guns. Hats off to SSS Defence!

 

[Shaitan]

Stumpp Scheule Defence 7.62/39
Undergoing testing.View attachment 39098

Good job shitting on ghataak and tar. XD