Siachen Glacier : The Highest battleground on Earth

pankaj nema

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Guys read this excerpt from this article


The landslide covered approximately a kilometre of the road west of the Goma garrison with 40-80 feet of snow and snapped a vital line of communication for Pakistani defensive positions on the Saltoro ridge line. At present, all Pakistani positions west of Ghyari – i.e. posts on the Bilafond, Grahmalumba, Ali Bragnsa and Chumik Glaciers are cut off from their supply route. The entire middle of the Pakistani defence line on the Saltoro ridge has been effectively hollowed out. Rescue and relief efforts at Ghyari are draining manpower reserves at the Goma garrison and at the Gyong advance base. The Pakistani posture on the glacier has never been weaker.

http://broadmind.nationalinterest.in/2012/04/17/is-the-pakistan-army-brave-enough-to-make-peace/
 

panduranghari

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Guys read this excerpt from this article


The landslide covered approximately a kilometre of the road west of the Goma garrison with 40-80 feet of snow and snapped a vital line of communication for Pakistani defensive positions on the Saltoro ridge line. At present, all Pakistani positions west of Ghyari – i.e. posts on the Bilafond, Grahmalumba, Ali Bragnsa and Chumik Glaciers are cut off from their supply route. The entire middle of the Pakistani defence line on the Saltoro ridge has been effectively hollowed out. Rescue and relief efforts at Ghyari are draining manpower reserves at the Goma garrison and at the Gyong advance base. The Pakistani posture on the glacier has never been weaker.

Is the Pakistan Army brave enough to make peace? | The Broad Mind
TIME to strike when they are weak. Should we be aggressive now? How much territory can we reclaim?
 

BangersAndMash

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I watched a BBC interview with Kiyani (spelling, who gives sh!t, I mean the paki general) the other day, the assh0le said pakistan did not want to be there, but was forced to go into Siachen in 1984 because the Indians invaded!
 

Kunal Biswas

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pakistan did not want to be there, but was forced to go into Siachen in 1984 because the Indians invaded!
Better get some new version of Lal topi excuses..

' Must have mosad, raw, cia nexus.. '
 

nitesh

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let's listen to facts:

VIKRAM SOOD'S PERSPECTIVES...: Story of Saltoro -- From Ababeel to Meghdoot

Pakistan is nowhere near the Siachen Glacier. Please everybody, let us get the facts right. The glacier is at least two-three days march away from Gyari and is attainable after first climbing the heights of Saltoro. It lies to the East of the Saltoro Ridge which is manned by Indian troops at those heights and is lower than the Saltoro. It is therefore not visible from the forward most posts on the Pakistani side. Saltoro overlooks, in a manner of speaking, the land to the west that is the Skardu Astore regions of Gilgit and Baltistan which we assert is ours. Siachen's northern tip is close to Shaksgam, a slice of J&K territory ceded by Pakistan to China, while its southern tip is the source of water to the Nubra.
No Prime Minister, no General would want his troops to be there if it were not absolutely necessary. This is not an ego battle. It is a matter of preservation of our interests served best by ensuring that two countries hostile to us do not have another link up just north of Leh and Kargil. There is a famous Ladakhi saying which says that only the best of friends and the fiercest of enemies visit this barren land. Let it be known that the Indian Army makes the fiercest of enemies.
Some despatches have made out that India "after starting the war in 1984 occupies higher positions." India did not start the war in 1984 but today occupies the heights. Pakistan started the war in 1947 and has continued that in different forms since then. Intelligence reports in 1983 had clearly warned that Pakistan had begun planning an assault on the Saltoro Ridge. A force called the Burzil Force would be launched from Skardu under 'Operation Ababeel'. In a dramatic push, almost like the crossing of Zoji La in 1947, an Indian force under 'Operation Meghdoot' captured the heights of Saltoro barely 48 hours before the Pakistan operation got going. That is how it is and that is how it will be for the foreseeable future unless there is a dramatic shift in Pakistan's attitude.
 

nitesh

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What the f*** is this
PM picks Army chief who will accept Siachen pact
Bikram Singh will help the Prime Minister reverse India's position on Siachen to ensure that Dr Singh can leave his 'peace mark' on Indo-Pak relations.



Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has put in place the full set of officials who will to support his desire to settle the Siachen dispute with Pakistan in a "Big Bang" visit across the border in a few months. The other dispute on the brink of resolution is Sir Creek. While the two nations have found a solution to Sir Creek, Siachen remains a problem because Indian Army chiefs starting from General A.S. Vaidya and continuing to General V.K. Singh have refused to support what they perceive will be a major concession to Pakistan, as it is India which will have to withdraw.


India occupied the disputed Siachen heights in 1984. Since then Pakistan has been trying to push India back through military force, and has failed. During the last five years, Pakistan has decided that what it could not win by war it can achieve through diplomacy as long as Dr Singh is PM. The Pakistan Army also sees the wisdom of forcing India back from its present line without the cost of conflict. Lt. Gen. Bikram Singh, the new Army chief, is expected to lead the reversal of the Army's position in order to help Dr Singh achieve his dream of leaving a "peace mark" on Indo-Pak relations.:scared2:

Other key officials such as Principal Secretary Pulok Chatterjee and Foreign Secretary Ranjan Mathai are already on board, and willing. The PM also has the support of Home Minister P. Chidambaram. Defence Minister A.K. Antony is the only holdout, but could be pacified if Sonia Gandhi agrees to support Dr Singh on his Pak initiative.:mad:

Siachen remains a problem because Indian Army chiefs have refused to support what they perceive will be a major concession to Pakistan, as it is India which will have to withdraw.

Since his assumption of office in 2004, "Manmohan Siqungh has looked towards a Pakistan settlement as one of the two cornerstones of his international legacy, the other being a close relationship with the United States," an official privy to the PM's thinking disclosed, adding that "he knows that time is running out for him, and that by next year, the country will be in election mode, so that bold initiatives would come afoul of politics". Those close to the PM hope that the BJP would support the PM's initiative and "follow the Vajpayee line, especially when L.K. Advani and Arun Jaitley are themselves in favour of a peace settlement with Pakistan, with only M.M. Joshi the odd man out".

The demilitarisation of Siachen on the basis of ironclad legal commitments by Pakistan, concurrent with an agreed settlement of the Sir Creek issue, is at the core of the PM's peace strategy, according to officials. They claim that the PM is in favour of "both a Siachen as well as a Sir Creek agreement", and that "these are doable in 2012 itself".:confused:

Teams of officials have been put to work on the contours of a possible settlement of these issues in advance of Manmohan Singh's suggested visit to Pakistan late this year. Interestingly, these officials say that "incoming Chief of Army Staff General-designate Bikramjit Singh is expected to take a holistic view of the situation" rather than "the narrow tactical view of some of his predecessors". It is pointed out that the incoming COAS is a protégé of former COAS General V.P. Malik, "who was fully on board Prime Minister Vajpayee's Lahore peace strategy". On Kashmir itself, "the Prime Minister favours soft borders" that would "provide easy access to Kashmiris from each side to the other". He is also "backing Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah's push for allowing reformed militants to return from their Pakistan Occupied Kashmir camps to their homes in the Kashmir valley," a strategy that "has the consent of Home Minister Chidambaram".

Sceptics, however, point out that retaining the Siachen base is important in the context of the China-Pakistan axis, a point that is disputed by the "peace" camp. An official's response was, "If Siachen were truly of military use in dealing with China, would the US be as insistent as it is in asking India to withdraw from the glacier? After all, the US' focus is on China." He claimed that "the international benefits of a withdrawal from Siachen would be immense, in that India would be shown to be willing to walk the extra mile for peace". This, he said, "would put the onus of reciprocity on the Pakistan Army, in a situation where its Kargil betrayal of 1999 proved to be short-sighted". Pakistan COAS Ashfaq Parvez Kayani has gone public in favour of a Siachen settlement based on demilitarisation of the glacier.

Other steps would include easier grant of visas, cultural and educational agreements and more business to business interaction between India and Pakistan. The PM's expectation is that "a multiplication of positive linkages, in business, media, sports, tourism and culture would create constituencies for peace that cannot be ignored", according to a senior official conversant with Dr Singh's peace strategy.

The expectation in Delhi is that a peace settlement between India and Pakistan would strengthen the civilian leadership vis-à-vis the military, thereby promoting a "culture of peace" in Pakistan. In the weeks ahead, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh will be devoting increasing attention towards fulfilling his "legacy of peace" with Pakistan, with his proposed Pakistan visit as the "crowning glory" of his legacy, said an official.
 

nitesh

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What the f*** is this
PM picks Army chief who will accept Siachen pact
Bikram Singh will help the Prime Minister reverse India's position on Siachen to ensure that Dr Singh can leave his 'peace mark' on Indo-Pak relations.



Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has put in place the full set of officials who will to support his desire to settle the Siachen dispute with Pakistan in a "Big Bang" visit across the border in a few months. The other dispute on the brink of resolution is Sir Creek. While the two nations have found a solution to Sir Creek, Siachen remains a problem because Indian Army chiefs starting from General A.S. Vaidya and continuing to General V.K. Singh have refused to support what they perceive will be a major concession to Pakistan, as it is India which will have to withdraw.


India occupied the disputed Siachen heights in 1984. Since then Pakistan has been trying to push India back through military force, and has failed. During the last five years, Pakistan has decided that what it could not win by war it can achieve through diplomacy as long as Dr Singh is PM. The Pakistan Army also sees the wisdom of forcing India back from its present line without the cost of conflict. Lt. Gen. Bikram Singh, the new Army chief, is expected to lead the reversal of the Army's position in order to help Dr Singh achieve his dream of leaving a "peace mark" on Indo-Pak relations.:scared2:

Other key officials such as Principal Secretary Pulok Chatterjee and Foreign Secretary Ranjan Mathai are already on board, and willing. The PM also has the support of Home Minister P. Chidambaram. Defence Minister A.K. Antony is the only holdout, but could be pacified if Sonia Gandhi agrees to support Dr Singh on his Pak initiative.:mad:

Siachen remains a problem because Indian Army chiefs have refused to support what they perceive will be a major concession to Pakistan, as it is India which will have to withdraw.

Since his assumption of office in 2004, "Manmohan Siqungh has looked towards a Pakistan settlement as one of the two cornerstones of his international legacy, the other being a close relationship with the United States," an official privy to the PM's thinking disclosed, adding that "he knows that time is running out for him, and that by next year, the country will be in election mode, so that bold initiatives would come afoul of politics". Those close to the PM hope that the BJP would support the PM's initiative and "follow the Vajpayee line, especially when L.K. Advani and Arun Jaitley are themselves in favour of a peace settlement with Pakistan, with only M.M. Joshi the odd man out".

The demilitarisation of Siachen on the basis of ironclad legal commitments by Pakistan, concurrent with an agreed settlement of the Sir Creek issue, is at the core of the PM's peace strategy, according to officials. They claim that the PM is in favour of "both a Siachen as well as a Sir Creek agreement", and that "these are doable in 2012 itself".:confused:

Teams of officials have been put to work on the contours of a possible settlement of these issues in advance of Manmohan Singh's suggested visit to Pakistan late this year. Interestingly, these officials say that "incoming Chief of Army Staff General-designate Bikramjit Singh is expected to take a holistic view of the situation" rather than "the narrow tactical view of some of his predecessors". It is pointed out that the incoming COAS is a protégé of former COAS General V.P. Malik, "who was fully on board Prime Minister Vajpayee's Lahore peace strategy". On Kashmir itself, "the Prime Minister favours soft borders" that would "provide easy access to Kashmiris from each side to the other". He is also "backing Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah's push for allowing reformed militants to return from their Pakistan Occupied Kashmir camps to their homes in the Kashmir valley," a strategy that "has the consent of Home Minister Chidambaram".

Sceptics, however, point out that retaining the Siachen base is important in the context of the China-Pakistan axis, a point that is disputed by the "peace" camp. An official's response was, "If Siachen were truly of military use in dealing with China, would the US be as insistent as it is in asking India to withdraw from the glacier? After all, the US' focus is on China." He claimed that "the international benefits of a withdrawal from Siachen would be immense, in that India would be shown to be willing to walk the extra mile for peace". This, he said, "would put the onus of reciprocity on the Pakistan Army, in a situation where its Kargil betrayal of 1999 proved to be short-sighted". Pakistan COAS Ashfaq Parvez Kayani has gone public in favour of a Siachen settlement based on demilitarisation of the glacier.

Other steps would include easier grant of visas, cultural and educational agreements and more business to business interaction between India and Pakistan. The PM's expectation is that "a multiplication of positive linkages, in business, media, sports, tourism and culture would create constituencies for peace that cannot be ignored", according to a senior official conversant with Dr Singh's peace strategy.

The expectation in Delhi is that a peace settlement between India and Pakistan would strengthen the civilian leadership vis-à-vis the military, thereby promoting a "culture of peace" in Pakistan. In the weeks ahead, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh will be devoting increasing attention towards fulfilling his "legacy of peace" with Pakistan, with his proposed Pakistan visit as the "crowning glory" of his legacy, said an official.
 

Kunal Biswas

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terestingly, these officials say that "incoming Chief of Army Staff General-designate Bikramjit Singh is expected to take a holistic view of the situation" rather than "the narrow tactical view of some of his predecessors".
Not good, you don't make the same mistake again..
 

pankaj nema

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This is a bloody canard being spread by the Sunday Gaurdian

In fact some time back there was another news that Gen Bikram jeet Singh is in FAVOUR
of AFSPA removal
 

pankaj nema

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Politically It would be SUICIDAL for Congress to vacate Siachen

The moment India vacates it Pakistan will take it and Congress will be LYNCHED
 

pankaj nema

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And above all Do NOT underestimate the power of BJP to do rabble rousing
for National Interest

When in August 2010 Kashmir was on fire and AFSPA 's withdrawl was being demanded
it was BJP's pressure that caused the Govt to backtrack

Siachen is far more deadlier than AFSPA

And ALSO in the LAST few weeks MANY Army officers and Security Analysts have
given a very candid view of How Siachen will be lost if we TRUST Pakistan
 

pankaj nema

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In the WORST case scenario if Siachen is Lost by General Bikram jeet Singh and
PM man mohan Singh what EFFECT will it have on the SIKH Community
 

panduranghari

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Politically It would be SUICIDAL for Congress to vacate Siachen

The moment India vacates it Pakistan will take it and Congress will be LYNCHED
No Congress wont be lynched. The will play the vote bank politics as they always have.

Its the job of the opposition and nationalistic congress party politicians to ensure such a thing never EVER happens. I have faith in the Army. They are not idiots and they will fight their corner. The sooner someone gets rid of MMS and SM the better.
 

anoop_mig25

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na nothing would happen back in past Rajvi gandhi and benizoor bhoou to tried to some kind of deal in siachen glacier but media at both side played havoc so we can expect same in future

also rss would force bjp to take oppositie view in case no peace deal isn`t favourable to india
 
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nitesh

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worth full read, gives a nice explanation of how pakis work
The Siachen tangle | The Asian Age

Although our positions on the Saltoro Ridge are impregnable, Pakistan has the advantage of better communication from the plains. Its forces can trek to Saltoro in a week, while we will take three weeks. If Pakistan does a Kargil there, it will be totally impossible to evict Pakistan. In the circumstances, a step-by-step approach to peace in Kashmir with Siachen as the first step can be suicidal. Demilitarisation of Siachen should only be a part of the complete peace arrangement in Kashmir.
 

Ray

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Ecology is an important factor, but Pakistan occupying the heights if India vacates cannot be ruled out.

If Pakistan occupies the heights or even get China to occupy the same, India will never be able to regain those heights because of acclimatisation period and the immense difficulty to capture these heights when held.

Pakistan having lost its Base due to the avalanche, their posts would have lost the land route and would now have to rely on air supply, which they just cannot afford.

Likewise, Pakistan requires its forces to go West, now that soon the US will vacate Afghanistan and it will be essential to give the same thrust that was done earlier to occupy Afghanistan under guise of the people being Talibans. Pakistan has a history of using military men in civil clothes claiming to be tribal fighters and such utter tripe. In this context, it will be recalled that a massive airlift was undertaken to remove Pakistani troops and ISI agents from Konduz in Afghanistan, just before the US captured the area in Nov 2001!

Therefore, Pakistan has everything to gain by demilitarising the Siachen.

That Pakistan is no respect for any boundary or border duly signed by them has been well established by the brazen Kargil intrusion to the Indian side of the LC. What is the guarantee that once Pakistan has established its writ in Afghanistan once the US leaves, they will not return to occupy the heights on Siachen vacated by India? And if they do, who will force them to leave?

It is in the interest of Pakistan and China that there is a land mass continuity between the Shaksgam Valley (ceded to China by Pakistan) to Aksai Chin. It maybe worth recall that China is already entrenching itself in POK!
 

Ray

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Lt. Gen. Bikram Singh, the new Army chief, is expected to lead the reversal of the Army's position in order to help Dr Singh achieve his dream of leaving a "peace mark" on Indo-Pak relations.
He will not be able to help Uncle Man in this endeavour because the Army will give him a run for his money.

The Army has lost enough lives because of national interest and it cannot be taken for a ride and then asked to recapture once the Pakistanis renegade.

Though one has to give to the political and bureaucratic nexus by the way they are drumming up this peace at all costs campaign through their handmaidens in the media and so called eminent personalities.
 

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