Scientists reconstruct faces of Indus Valley people

[Indo-Aryan]

 

[Indo-Aryan]

Wow! I am hearing about them for the first time! What were their genetic profiles like and what contribution do they have towards modern India (genetically & culturally)? - Only archeology & ancient DNA can conclusively answer that.

Exactly. Contrary to popular belief in East and South of Harappa many semi-Urbanized cultures took shape. But for some odd reason not much emphasis is given to them.

 

[Ikariyasan]

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Wait are those related to that Ashmound culture?
In Prof.Reich's book the south Asian section has the title 'the collision that formed India'- collision in the sense of both genetics & agricultural practices (wheat based agriculture from the fertile Cresent (Near east) & rice based one from the south east.

 

[Indo-Aryan]

 

[Ikariyasan]

Exactly. Contrary to popular belief in East and South of Harappa many semi-Urbanized cultures took shape. But for some odd reason not much emphasis is given to them.

These probably are products of migration of IVC people further deep into India. Right?

 

[Indo-Aryan]

Wait are those related to that Ashmound culture?
In Prof.Reich's book the south Asian section has the title 'the collision that formed India'- collision in the sense of both genetics & agricultural practices (wheat based agriculture from the fertile Cresent (Near east) & rice based one from the south east.

No idea.

As far as latest studies show;

Wheat & Barley was staple crop in North-West
Rice was staple in the East in Gangetic plains

Both developed independently of Near East Farming cultures.

 

[Indo-Aryan]

These probably are products of migration of IVC people further deep into India. Right?

They were contemporary of Harappans.
Harappa continued till 1200bce.

Post that it was PGW-Iron Age culture.

Chalcolithic cultures were Stone-Copper cultures with some knowledge of bronze

Harappa was bronze age culture

Then there is OCP culture identified with sites like Sinauli.


Without some kind of solid evidence we can just cook up theories.

DNA from Rakhigari and 11 other samples are superimposed on a very large segment of population of IVC only.

They haven't been identified with these chalcolithic cultures.

 

[Ikariyasan]

No idea.

As far as latest studies show;

Wheat & Barley was staple crop in North-West
Rice was staple in the East in Gangetic plains

Both developed independently of Near East Farming cultures.

That's the conclusion of Prof.Rai.
I lack the necessary knowledge to have any personal opinion regarding this but Neolithic revolution is thought to occurred in 2 places - #the famous fertile crescent (near east)- the most likely place where various HGs gradually transitioned to agriculture, forming farming populations such as ANF, IranN & LevantN.
# Yellow river & Yangtze river basins

 

[Indo-Aryan]

When Harappa died out something interesting happened in South India which may or may not have happened along the Harappan migration into the region.

 

[Indo-Aryan]

In 2018, Narasimhan and co-authors analyzed BMAC skeletons from the Bronze Age sites of Bustan, Dzharkutan, Gonur Tepe, and Sapalli Tepe. The male specimens belonged to haplogroup E1b1a (1/18), E1b1b (1/18), G (2/18), J* (2/18), J1 (1/18), J2 (4/18), L (2/18), R* (1/18), R1b (1/18), R2 (2/18), and T (1/18).

Any idea about the time period to which these skeletons belonged?

Any idea what was the haplogroup of those Harappan skeletons found from BMAC?

 

[Indo-Aryan]

If you look at some of these haplogroup they are quite wide spread. I then wonder why we are sticking with R1a as the Aryan gene?

Funny thing is Indo-European speaking West Europeans have higher J & L than R1a.

Highest they carry is R1b

400 years of colonialism.
They left behind English, Democracy, Railways, Way of living but when it comes to ancestry they miserably failed.

Just a 100,000 odd Anglo-Indians

 

[Ikariyasan]

In 2018, Narasimhan and co-authors analyzed BMAC skeletons from the Bronze Age sites of Bustan, Dzharkutan, Gonur Tepe, and Sapalli Tepe. The male specimens belonged to haplogroup E1b1a (1/18), E1b1b (1/18), G (2/18), J* (2/18), J1 (1/18), J2 (4/18), L (2/18), R* (1/18), R1b (1/18), R2 (2/18), and T (1/18).

Any idea about the time period to which these skeletons belonged?

Any idea what was the haplogroup of those Harappan skeletons found from BMAC?

I don't know about that sorry . I will look into it. You are way better informed in regards to age of various cultures.

 

[Indo-Aryan]

I don't know about that sorry . I will look into it. You are way better informed in regards to age of various cultures.

hehe....Having history as optional for UPSC helped a bit but I have a tendency of forgetting and repeating things

If I don't stay in touch I would most likely forget all the finer details in 6 months time.

 

[Ikariyasan]

If you look at some of these haplogroup they are quite wide spread. I then wonder why we are sticking with R1a as the Aryan gene?

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Funny thing is Indo-European speaking West Europeans have higher J & L than R1a.

Highest they carry is R1b
View attachment 117196

400 years of colonialism.
They left behind English, Democracy, Railways, Way of living but when it comes to ancestry they miserably failed.

Just a 100,000 odd Anglo-Indians

As for Y haplogroups-
# R1a & R1b- these are brother subclades and are ultimately derived from ANE ( maim component of EHG).
I think Eastern Europe is dominated by R1a while Western Europe by R1b.
# J- It is associated with CHG & IranN. In our case it is likely mediated by IranN ancestry in IVC.
#G & T - These are associated with ANF & EEF (EEF is ANF with some WHG ancestry). Both are present at low frequencies in India.
# I- It is related to WHGs.
Europeans are dominated by both R1s, I , J & some subclades of E.
Due to higher number of samples publicly available haplotrees of Rs, Js, Is & Es are very elaborated and complex.
I will post about the rest later.

 

[Ikariyasan]

hehe....Having history as optional for UPSC helped a bit but I have a tendency of forgetting and repeating things

If I don't stay in touch I would most likely forget all the finer details in 6 months time.

All the best for UPSC bro!

 

[Indo-Aryan]

All the best for UPSC bro!

I gave up.

Looking for job somewhere else.
4 years tried but failed at every prelims
Highest score I got at prelims was 85 in UPSC and 93 in SPSC.

 

[Ikariyasan]

#L- It is thought to be related to IranN. L1a1 has high frequency amongst Dravidian farming castes and thus it is believed to be an IVC related haplogroup.
L1a2 is rarer compared to L1a1 (in India). It is mostly concentrated in NW India, Pakistan, Afghanistan while having a sporadic distribution in rest of India.
Overall L is much more common in western India as compared to East.
South Asians completely lack L1b & L2 (these are more common amongst West Asians & Europeans). L1b has been reported in Iranis & Makranis in South Asia (both of which have recent west Asian ancestry).
Overall L is very rare in Europe but much more common in Western & South Asia.
#H- this is believed to be major haplogroup of Paleolithic South Asians given it's older presence & higher frequency amongst tribals & lower castes.
This is a weird & old haplogroup . H1 & H3 are found in India while H2 in Europe & west Asia (completely absent here). H2 has been found in ancient ANF samples. All three are believed to have separated from each other around 42000ybp.

 

[Ikariyasan]

I gave up.

Looking for job somewhere else.
4 years tried but failed at every prelims
Highest score I got at prelims was 85 in UPSC and 93 in SPSC.

God! It is an extremely difficult & exhausting examination.

 

[Indo-Aryan]

As for Y haplogroups-
# R1a & R1b- these are brother subclades and are ultimately derived from ANE ( maim component of EHG).
I think Eastern Europe is dominated by R1a while Western Europe by R1b.
# J- It is associated with CHG & IranN. In our case it is likely mediated by IranN ancestry in IVC.
#G & T - These are associated with ANF & EEF (EEF is ANF with some WHG ancestry). Both are present at low frequencies in India.
# I- It is related to WHGs.
Europeans are dominated by both R1s, I , J & some subclades of E.
Due to higher number of samples publicly available haplotrees of Rs, Js, Is & Es are very elaborated and complex.
I will post about the rest later.

I once checked the 23&Me ancestry reports of 2 Indians. One from Gujarat had C-M130 and the one from Punjab had R1a.

These days 23&Me is clubbing North Indians into Central-South Asian sub-category different from South Indians. Don't know why


Both guys looked Indian. Punjabi one being a little fairer but Gujarati guys haplogroup was a bit shocking.

 

[Ikariyasan]

I once checked the 23&Me ancestry reports of 2 Indians. One from Gujarat had C-M130 and the one from Punjab had R1a.

These days 23&Me is clubbing North Indians into Central-South Asian sub-category different from South Indians. Don't know why

These tests are worth only for the high quality raw data they provide. Their results for undersampled population like south Asians aren't very good, they have improved a lot though.