Scientists reconstruct faces of Indus Valley people

Ikariyasan

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Nope. Any preliminary articles or discussions to read?

I am waiting for Niraj Rais paper for past 2 years 😫
I think there was a recent interview of Prof.Rai and he has said some papers are coming.
Dzudzuana preprint suggests a core west Eurasian ancestry linking all ancient west Eurasians (Iran N , ANF, Levant N, Tarofalt,Natufians, EHG,WHG etc.)
 

Indo-Aryan

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Yeah bro , Sanauli paper should answer a lot of questions. Don't kill me for this but there is also a possibility (just a possibility)that those sanauli people were IVC related folks with their baila gadis.
Though Twitter is an unreliable hellhole someone was claiming that the Sanauli skeletons did not yield high quality DNA😢.
😭😭😭

I hope that's not the case.
Sinauli DNA results will have huge impact on our understanding of our past. If they are IVC related you know what will be the natural conclusion drawn from that 😉
 

Ikariyasan

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😭😭😭

I hope that's not the case.
Sinauli DNA results will have huge impact on our understanding of our past. If they are IVC related you know what will be the natural conclusion drawn from that 😉
I hope at least something comes out of it. TBH based on present genetic profiles of various communities, the broader picture is already agreed upon. Whatever the results are it shouldn't be a big deal, but I do agree with a member on that forum that our population is not yet mature and wise enough to handle these and probably that's why Govt.s so far have refrained from pursuing such studies.
 

Indo-Aryan

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I hope at least something comes out of it. TBH based on present genetic profiles of various communities, the broader picture is already agreed upon. Whatever the results are it shouldn't be a big deal, but I do agree with a member on that forum that our population is not yet mature and wise enough to handle these and probably that's why Govt.s so far have refrained from pursuing such studies.
Starting of with our gullible media houses. Who at the drop of the hat cook up stories from such research papers.
 

Indo-Aryan

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Let's believe for arguments sake:

Andronovo 2000bce-1000bce
Indo-Iranian
Sinauli 2000bce-1800bce
Indo-Iranian based on the burial similarities.

Doesn't that hint towards presence of Indo-Iranians in India pre during peak Harappan age.

Sinauli is on the eastern end of IVC and it's contemporary. Such a discovery at such a timeline would have made sense if it was found around SWAT valley.

Instead it's the heartland of India with no such findings to its West.

Unless there Carts directly flew from Andronovo and landed into Sinauli 😘
 
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Indo-Aryan

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Let's make this amply clear that In my personal capacity and Opinion Indo-Iranian linguistic Family were already a part of Harappa and most likely originated in sapta-Sindhu region and most likely co-existed with Proto-Dravidian language.

Andronovo language is unknown. Scythians who later occupied same territories in Iron Age were definitely Iranian speakers. Now it's mostly Slavic Turkic languages in that region, I guess.
 

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Their Argument

The association between the Andronovo culture and the Indo-Iranians is corroborated by the distribution of Iranian place-names across the Andronovo horizon and by the historical evidence of dominance by various Iranian peoples, including Saka (Scythians), Sarmatians and Alans, throughout the Andronovo horizon during the 1st millennium BC.

My argument

The association between the Harappan culture and the Indo-Iranians is corroborated by the distribution of Aryan place-names across the Harappan Horizon and by the historical evidence of dominance by various Aryan peoples, including Gandhari, Purus and Bharatas, throughout the Harappan horizon during the 2nd and 1st millennium BC.

😀😁😂
 

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images (13).jpeg


Warning:

Location of certain places are disputed
Only Hapta Hendu (Sapta Sindu) is mentioned in Rig Veda 😍

Outward migration of Avestan speaking people from eastern Indus to Western and Northern Iran.
 

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Avestantәm amanvantәm yazatәmsūrәm dāmōhu sәvištәmmiθrәm yazāi zaoθrābyō
Vedic Sanskrittám ámanvantam yajatámśū́ram dhā́masu śáviṣṭhammitrám yajāi hótrābhyaḥ
Proto-Indo-Iranian*tám ámanvantam yaǰatám*ćū́ram dhā́masu ćávištham*mitrám yǎǰāi jháutrābhyas
 

Ikariyasan

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Avestantәm amanvantәm yazatәmsūrәm dāmōhu sәvištәmmiθrәm yazāi zaoθrābyō
Vedic Sanskrittám ámanvantam yajatámśū́ram dhā́masu śáviṣṭhammitrám yajāi hótrābhyaḥ
Proto-Indo-Iranian*tám ámanvantam yaǰatám*ćū́ram dhā́masu ćávištham*mitrám yǎǰāi jháutrābhyas
They are remarkably similar! Maybe someday I will try to learn about linguistics and archeology.
 

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Rig Veda Book 7

HYMN XCV. Sarasvatī.

1. THIS stream Sarasvatī with fostering current comes forth, our sure defence, our fort of iron.
As on a car, the flood flows on, surpassing in majesty and might all other waters.

2 Pure in her course from mountains to the ocean, alone of streams Sarasvatī hath listened.
Thinking of wealth and the great world of creatures, she poured for Nahuṣa her milk and fatness.

3 Friendly to man he grew among the women, a strong young Steer amid the Holy Ladies.
He gives the fleet steed to our wealthy princes, and decks their bodies for success in battle.

4 May this Sarasvatī be pleased and listen at this our sacrifice, auspicious Lady,
When we with reverence, on our knees, implore her close-knit to wealth, most kind to those she loveth.

5 These offerings have ye made with adoration: say this, Sarasvatī, and accept our praises;
And, placing us under thy dear protection, may we approach thee, as a tree, for shelter.

6 For thee, O Blest Sarasvatī, Vasiṣṭha hath here unbarred the doors d sacred Order.
Wax, Bright One, and give strength to him who lauds thee. Preserve us evermore, ye Gods, with blessings.

6th one is interesting 😀
What does it mean?
 
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Indo-Aryan

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More interesting stuff from Rig Veda Book 7

HYMN XCIX. Viṣṇu.

1. MEN come not nigh thy majesty who growest beyond all bound and measure with thy body.
Both thy two regions of the earth, O Viṣṇu, we know: thou God, knowest the highest also.

2 None who is born or being born, God Viṣṇu, hath reached the utmost limit of thy grandeur.
The vast high vault of heaven hast thou supported, and fixed earth's eastern pinnacle securely.

3 Rich in sweet food be ye, and rich in milch-kine, with fertile pastures, fain to do men service.
Both these worlds, Viṣṇu, hast thou stayed asunder, and firmly fixed the earth with pegs around it.

4 Ye have made spacious room for sacrificing by generating Sūrya, Dawn, and Agni.
O Heroes, ye have conquered in your battles even the bull-jawed Dāsa's wiles and magic.

5 Ye have destroyed, thou, Indra, and thou Viṣṇu, Śambara's nine-and-ninety fenced castles.
Ye Twain smote down a hundred times a thousand resistless heroes of the royal Varcin.


6 This is the lofty hymn of praise, exalting the Lords of Mighty Stride, the strong and lofty.
I laud you in the solemn synods, Viṣṇu: pour ye food on us in our camps, O Indra.

7 O Viṣṇu, unto thee my lips cry Vaṣaṭ! Let this mine offering, Sipivista, please thee.
May these my songs of eulogy exalt thee. Preserve us evermore, ye Gods, with blessings.
 

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HYMN CIII. Frogs.

1. THEY who lay quiet for a year, the Brahmans who fulfil their vows,
The Frogs have lifted up their voice, the voice Parjanya hath inspired.

2 What time on these, as on a dry skin lying in the pool's bed, the floods of heaven descended,
The music of the Frogs comes forth in concert like the cows lowing with their calves beside them.

3 When at the coming of the Rains the water has poured upon them as they yearned and thirsted,
One seeks another as he talks and greets him with cries of pleasure as a son his father.

4 Each of these twain receives the other kindly, while they are revelling in the flow of waters,
When the Frog moistened by the rain springs forward, and Green and Spotty both combine their voices.

5 When one of these repeats the other's language, as he who learns the lesson of the teacher,
Your every limb seems to be growing larger as ye converse with eloquence on the waters.

6 Onc is Cow-bellow and Goat-bleat the other, one Frog is Green and one of them is Spotty.
They bear one common name, and yet they vary, and, talking, modulate the voice diversely.

7 As Brahmans, sitting round the brimful vessel, talk at the Soma-rite of Atiratra,
So, Frogs, ye gather round the pool to honour this day of all the year, the first of Rain-time.

8 These Brahmans with the Soma juice, performing their year-long rite, have lifted up their voices;
And these Adhvaryus, sweating with their kettles, come forth and show themselves, and none are hidden.

9 They keep the twelve month's God-appointed order, and never do the men neglect the season.
Soon as the Rain-time in the year returneth, these who were heated kettles gain their freedom.

10 Cow-bellow and Goat-bleat have granted riches, and Green and Spotty have vouchsafed us treasure.
The Frogs who give us cows in hundreds lengthen our lives in this most fertilizing season.
 

Indo-Aryan

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HYMN CIV. Indra-Soma.

1. INDRA and Soma, burn, destroy the demon foe, send downward, O ye Bulls, those who add gloom to gloom.
Annihilate the fools, slay them and burn them up: chase them away from us, pierce the voracious ones.

2 Indra and Soma, let sin round the wicked boil like as a caldron set amid the flames of fire.
Against the foe of prayer, devourer of raw flesh, the vile fiend fierce of eye, keep ye perpetual hate.

3 Indra and Soma, plunge the wicked in the depth, yea, cast them into darkness that hath no support,
So that not one of them may ever thence return: so may your wrathful might prevail and conquer them.

4 Indra and Soma, hurl your deadly crushing bolt down on the wicked fiend from heaven and from the earth.
Yea, forge out of the mountains your celestial dart wherewith ye burn to death the waxing demon race.

5 Indra and Soma, cast ye downward out of heaven your deadly darts of stone burning with fiery flame,
Eternal, scorching darts; plunge the voracious ones within the depth, and let them sink without a sound.

6 Indra and Soma, let this hymn control you both, even as the girth encompasses two vigorous steeds-
The song of praise which I with wisdom offer you: do ye, as Lords of men, animate these my prayers.

7 In your impetuous manner think ye both thereon: destroy these evil beings, slay the treacherous fiends.
Indra and Soma, let the wicked have no bliss who evermore assails us with malignity.

8 Whoso accuses me with words of falsehood when I pursue my way with guileless spirit,
May he, the speaker of untruth, be, Indra, like water which the hollowed hand compresses.

9 Those who destroy, as is their wont, the simple, and with their evil natures barm the righteous,
May Soma give them over to the serpent, or to the lap of Nirrti consign them.

10 The fiend, O Agni, who designs to injure the essence of our food, kine, steeds, or bodies,
May he, the adversary, thief, and robber, sink to destruction, both himself and offipring.

11 May he be swept away, himself and children: may all the three earths press him down beneath them.
May his fair glory, O ye Gods, be blighted, who in the day or night would fain destroy us.

12 The prudent finds it easy to distinguish the true and false: their words oppose each other.
Of these two that which is the true and honest, Soma protects, and brings the false to nothing.

13 Never doth Soma aid and guide the wicked or him who falsely claims the Warrior's title.
He slays the fiend and him who speaks untruly: both lie entangled in the noose of Indra.

14 As if I worshipped deities of falsehood, or thought vain thoughts about the Gods, O Agni.
Why art thou angry with us, Jātavedas? Destruction fall on those who lie against thee!

15 So may I die this day if I have harassed any man's life or if I be a demon.
Yea, may he lose all his ten sons together who with false tongue hath called me Yātudhāna.

16 May Indra slay him with a mighty weapon, and let the vilest of all creatures perish,
The fiend who says that he is pure, who calls me a demon though devoid of demon nature.

17 She too who wanders like an owl at night-time, hiding her body in her guile and malice,
May she fall downward into endless caverns. May press-stones with loud ring destroy the demons.

18 Spread out, ye Maruts, search among the people: seize ye and grind the Rākṣasas to pieces,
Who fly abroad, transformed to birds, at night-time, or sully and pollute our holy worship.

19 Hurl down from heaven thy bolt of stone, O Indra: sharpen it, Maghavan, made keen by Soma.
Forward, behind, and from above and under, smite down the demons with thy rocky weapon.

20 They fly, the demon dogs, and, bent on mischief, fain would they harm indomitable Indra.
Śakra makes sharp his weapon for the wicked: now, let him cast his bolt at fiendish wizards.

21 Indra hath ever been the fiends’ destroyer who spoil oblations of the Gods’ invokers:
Yea, Śakra, like an axe that splits the timber, attacks and smashes them like earthen vessels.

22 Destroy the fiend shaped like an owl or owlet, destroy him in the form of dog or cuckoo.
Destroy him shaped as eagle or as vulture as with a stone, O Indra, crush the demon.

23 Let not the fiend of witchcraft-workers reach us: may Dawn drive off the couples of Kimīdins.
Earth keep us safe from earthly woe and trouble: from grief that comes from heaven mid-air preserve us.

24 Slay the male demon, Indra! slay the female, joying and triumphing in arts of magic.
Let the fools' gods with bent necks fall and perish, and see no more the Sun when he arises.

25 Look each one hither, look around Indra and Soma, watch ye well.
 

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Book 10 Hymn 15

4 Come, seat thee on this bed of grass, O Yama, in company with Aṅgirases and Fathers.
Let texts recited by the sages bring thee O King, let this oblation make thee joyful.

5 Come, Yama, with the Aṅgirases the Holy, rejoice thee here with children of Virūpa.
To sit on sacred grass at this our worship, I call Vivasvān, too, thy Father hither.

6 Our Fathers are Aṅgirases, Navagvas, Atharvans, Bhṛgus who deserve the Soma.
May these, the Holy, look on us with favour, may we enjoy their gracious loving-kindness.

7 Go forth, go forth upon the ancient pathways whereo8n our sires of old have gone before us.
'Mere shalt thou look on both the Kings enjoying their sacred food, God Varuṇa and Yama.

13 Thou, Jātavedas, knowest well the number of Fathers who are here and who are absent,
Of Fathers whom we know and whom we know not: accept the sacrifice wellprepared with portions.

14 They who, consumed by fire or not cremated, joy in their offering in the midst of heaven,—
Grant them, O Sovran Lord, the world of spirits and their own body, as thy pleasure wills it.
 

Indo-Aryan

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Interesting read.

In other words, neither during the Yamnaya phase nor during the supposed Indo-Iranian Sintashta phase, there is any evidence of farming on the steppe, all the way from Dnieper to the Altai and whatever evidence there is only indicates the use of wild plants. This is strikingly at odds with the extensive agricultural vocabulary of the Indo-Europeans and the Indo-Iranians. What this effectively means for the proponents of the steppe theory is apparently the Indo-Iranians somehow miraculously preserved agricultural vocabulary from the PIE period, including the PIE cognates of wheat and barley, despite there being no evidence of agriculture in their homeland on the steppe. Moreover they managed to impose this vocabulary on the advanced Bronze age civilizations of Central and South Asia that had been practicing agriculture including the cultivation of barley and wheat for several millenia.

 

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Anthony speculates that the Yamnaya ate a diet consisting of meat, milk, yogurt, cheese, and soups made from seeds and wild vegetables, and probably consumed mead.

An interesting query to ponder. Why did European languages which were spread by Yamnaya carry vocabulary of crops.

🤔
 

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