Project- 75(I). Next gen subs. RFP issued

WolfPack86

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Navantia presents S80 Plus Submarine For India’s P-75I at Underwater Defence & Security 2020 Conference
Navantia is participating in the P75(I) project using as reference design our S80 plus, the only 3000 ton AIP submarine currently under construction worldwide. This baseline is very close to the requirements of the Indian Navy, possibly the closest among all shortlisted competitors, and meets the Indian ambition with minimum risk. For this reason, a technical effort at this stage is minimum and Navantia is focusing on other aspects such as the indigenization of major equipment and materials, and Transfer of Technology (ToT) opportunities.

More than 100 companies in India are already in contact with Navantia for the indigenization of equipment and materials, and around 200 are expected to participate in the event, which will be the forum for explaining areas of cooperation, and organizing one-to-one interviews. Key S80 Plus equipment suppliers shall also participate to explore indigenisation opportunities for components, or fabrication in India. All Indian suppliers are very welcome.

About India’s P-75I:


The Indian government shortlisted in January 2020 two Indian shipyards and five foreign defense companies for the P-75I project which calls for the local construction of six conventional submarines. The two local shipyards that were shortlisted are the privately owned L&T group and state-owned MDL. The five foreign defense companies are Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering DSME (South Korea), Navantia (Spain), Naval Group (France), Rubin Design Bureau (Russia)and ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems TKMS (Germany).

About S-80 Plus-class submarine:

The S-80 Plus class is a Spanish class of four submarines in production by the Spanish company Navantia in its Cartagena shipyard for the Spanish Navy. In common with other contemporary submarines, they feature air-independent propulsion.

S-80 Plus-class submarines are designed to improve threat scenario missions. Their operational mobility will allow them to operate in remote areas, travelling discreetly at high speeds. Their air-independent propulsion (AIP) system, of new technological design, will ensure their ability to remain in an area for a very long period of time without being detected and their ability to operate in possible conflict zones.

In terms of specifications, the S-80 Plus-class submarines have a full load displacement of 3,200 tons, a total length of 81.05 m (265.9 ft), a beam of 11.68 m (38.3 ft) and a draught of 6.20 m (20.3 ft). With a cruising speed of 12 knots, the S-80 Plus-class submarines offer a range of 8,000 nm. The submarine can accommodate 32 personnel (plus 8 troops).

The S-80 Plus-class submarines are equipped with 6 × 533 mm torpedo tubes with DM2A4 torpedoes and Harpoon missiles.
 

WolfPack86

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Amur 950
The submarine “Amur 950″ has a smaller displacement compared to the submarines of the class ” Kilo ” and “Amur 1650″. The peculiarity of the submarine is the presence of 10 universal vertical launchers of the ” Club – S ” missile system , which makes it possible to carry out a 10-missile salvo with cruise missiles for maritime and land targets for no more than 2 minutes. For self-defense, there are small-sized hydroacoustic countermeasures devices placed in launchers in the superstructure of submarines.


The integrated combat control system with the latest radio electronic subsystems allows solving all the tactical tasks facing non-nuclear submarines. Due to the relatively small displacement, the submarine “Amur 950” will have an advantage over submarines of similar class by the criterion “efficiency-cost”.



The level of the acoustic field of the submarine “Amur 950” is several times lower than that of the “Kilo” class submarines, which are considered to be the lowest noise in the world today. The submarine is equipped with a new generation of electronic weapons, using the achievements of world radio electronics in recent years

It is possible to equip the submarine with an air-independent power plant with electrochemical generators, which makes it possible to significantly increase the underwater autonomy and range of navigation. Such an installation with reagent stocks is placed in a special compartment-module, which can be built into the submarine both during construction, and during repair or modernization.


The submarine can be operated in any areas of the World Ocean, except areas with a solid ice cover, under any weather conditions, in shallow and deep water areas


 

FalconSlayers

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This thread is 10 years old, wtf is our MoD doing? We take 10 years to conclude something? That’s why I have lost hope in Indian Military modernisation and size push.
 

WolfPack86

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Russia's Rubin responds to Indian submarine tender RFI with Amur-1650
"According to the tender rules and Make in India logic the choice of a foreign partner belongs to Indian enterprises. Our proposal for the Indian Navy is based on non-nuclear Amur-1650 submarine and meets all the customer requirements," he said.

The Indian government sent a Request for Information (RFI) related to 75I tender to collect data on potential suppliers and their products. Rubin bids at the tender with Rosoboronexport arms trader and under the auspices of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation.

"The Indian government submitted the RFI to Rosoboronexport. Rubin timely and fully supplied all the necessary information to Rosoboronexport. We are waiting for Request for Proposal to provide full answers on all issues," Vilnit said.

The Indian Navy announced plans to procure six submarines in 2006. Before 75I tender which was several times postponed, India signed a contract with France for the supply of six Scorpene diesel-electric subs.
Non-nuclear Amur-1650 is an export option of Lada-class submarines of project 677 designed by Rubin. New hull solutions, coating and the latest electronics provide unprecedented stealth characteristics. Amur-1650 can carry precision Club missiles (export option of Kalibr).

Rubin plans to assist India in the creation of air-independent power plant for Amur-1650 in the framework of 75I tender. "We are sure that the Indian Navy would work to install its own power plant. We are ready to help integrate the Indian plant or assist in its creation upon permissions from the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation and Rosoboronexport," Vilnit said.

The Rubin-designed power plant is fired by diesel fuel while hydrogen for fuel elements is obtained by reforming method.
"Safe operation provides advantage to the power plant which is offered for the non-nuclear submarine that can be jointly created in the framework of 75I project by the Russian and Indian sides with technical assistance of our enterprise," Vilnit said.
 

Bhurki

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No need for the P75I. Waste of time and money. Order 10 more Scorpenes with DRDO AIP and other Indian tech.
MoD could certainly decide on that.
But they don't want to buy a submarine thats cheaper than $1B per boat now methinks.
 

WolfPack86

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India Developing BrahMos-NG Missile for Project 75I Submarines
BrahMos Aerospace, a joint venture between India’s Defense Research Development Organization and Russian rocket design bureau NPO Mashinostroyeniya, is working on a next-generation supersonic cruise missile, designated BrahMos-NG, for the Indian Navy’s new fleet of Project-75 India (Project-75 I) diesel-electric attack submarines (SSK).

A first test firing of the lighter and sleeker BrahMos-NG is expected to take place within the next two years. The new weapon system is expected to be operationally deployed by 2024. The submarine-launched variant of the BrahMos-NG is likely to take a while longer to develop and no firm date has been set.

According to the website defenseworld.net, the BrahMos NG will feature a digital fuel injection system enabling increases of the missile’s speed from Mach 2.8 to Mach 3.5. The missile will still have the same official operational range of about 290 kilometers. It will weigh about 50 percent less than the original BrahMos and will also be three meters shorter than its predecessor.

The original BrahMos, named after the Brahmaputra River in India and the Moskva River in Russia, is an upgraded variant of the Russian-made P-800 Oniks over-the-horizon supersonic anti-ship cruise missile. No specifics have so far been revealed about the submarine-launched variant of the BrahMos NG save that it can be launched from a sub’s torpedo tubes and will also have a land-attack/anti-ship capability.

The original BrahMos sub-launched variant was first test fired from a submerged platform in 2013. Unlike the BrahMos NG, its bigger predecessor can only be fired vertically from a modular launcher. To date, there are no plans to integrate the original BrahMos missile with India’s attack submarine fleet.

Under Project-75 I, Russia has been pitching India a new SSK class based on the Russian Amur-1650 boat, the export version of the Project 677 Lada class, emphasizing that it would be capable of firing the BrahMos NG supersonic cruise missile.

“The joint SSK project would reportedly involve a significant transfer of military technology from Russia to India that would go beyond usual license-production agreements,” I explained last week.

The Indian Ministry of Defense’s (MoD’s) Defense Acquisition Council, the ministry’s principal procurement body, approved the procurement of the six new SSKs in January 2019 under the MoD’s strategic partnership (SP) model within the framework of the Defense Procurement Procedure 2016.

Russia will be competing with Naval Group (France), Kockums (Sweden), and Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (Germany) for the contract.

The Indian government is not expected to make a selection of an international sub maker, referred to as the original equipment manufacturer (OEM), for two to three years.

“The OEMs would be shortlisted primarily based on their submarine design meeting the Indian Navy’s Qualitative Requirements and qualifying the Transfer of Technology and Indigenous Content (IC) criteria,” the MoD said in a June 2019 statement.

Importantly, the new subs are expected to be fitted with an air-independent propulsion (AIP) system, something that the Russian shipbuilding industry has been struggling to build for years.
 

Chinmoy

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India Developing BrahMos-NG Missile for Project 75I Submarines
BrahMos Aerospace, a joint venture between India’s Defense Research Development Organization and Russian rocket design bureau NPO Mashinostroyeniya, is working on a next-generation supersonic cruise missile, designated BrahMos-NG, for the Indian Navy’s new fleet of Project-75 India (Project-75 I) diesel-electric attack submarines (SSK).

A first test firing of the lighter and sleeker BrahMos-NG is expected to take place within the next two years. The new weapon system is expected to be operationally deployed by 2024. The submarine-launched variant of the BrahMos-NG is likely to take a while longer to develop and no firm date has been set.

According to the website defenseworld.net, the BrahMos NG will feature a digital fuel injection system enabling increases of the missile’s speed from Mach 2.8 to Mach 3.5. The missile will still have the same official operational range of about 290 kilometers. It will weigh about 50 percent less than the original BrahMos and will also be three meters shorter than its predecessor.

The original BrahMos, named after the Brahmaputra River in India and the Moskva River in Russia, is an upgraded variant of the Russian-made P-800 Oniks over-the-horizon supersonic anti-ship cruise missile. No specifics have so far been revealed about the submarine-launched variant of the BrahMos NG save that it can be launched from a sub’s torpedo tubes and will also have a land-attack/anti-ship capability.

The original BrahMos sub-launched variant was first test fired from a submerged platform in 2013. Unlike the BrahMos NG, its bigger predecessor can only be fired vertically from a modular launcher. To date, there are no plans to integrate the original BrahMos missile with India’s attack submarine fleet.

Under Project-75 I, Russia has been pitching India a new SSK class based on the Russian Amur-1650 boat, the export version of the Project 677 Lada class, emphasizing that it would be capable of firing the BrahMos NG supersonic cruise missile.

“The joint SSK project would reportedly involve a significant transfer of military technology from Russia to India that would go beyond usual license-production agreements,” I explained last week.

The Indian Ministry of Defense’s (MoD’s) Defense Acquisition Council, the ministry’s principal procurement body, approved the procurement of the six new SSKs in January 2019 under the MoD’s strategic partnership (SP) model within the framework of the Defense Procurement Procedure 2016.

Russia will be competing with Naval Group (France), Kockums (Sweden), and Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (Germany) for the contract.

The Indian government is not expected to make a selection of an international sub maker, referred to as the original equipment manufacturer (OEM), for two to three years.

“The OEMs would be shortlisted primarily based on their submarine design meeting the Indian Navy’s Qualitative Requirements and qualifying the Transfer of Technology and Indigenous Content (IC) criteria,” the MoD said in a June 2019 statement.

Importantly, the new subs are expected to be fitted with an air-independent propulsion (AIP) system, something that the Russian shipbuilding industry has been struggling to build for years.
This happens when you don't do a proper homework and start writing half cook aspects.
 

WolfPack86

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France and India talk submarines as Rafale fighters are delivered

India received three more French fighter jets on Wednesday, and a deal for French submarines might not be far behind as the European and South Asian nations find they share a commitment to Indian Ocean security. The submarines would come from French shipbuilder Naval Group, which “will formulate an offer that goes very far in the Make in India direction,” said a source familiar with the company’s preparation for the submarine procurement tender under the Indian Navy’s P75I category. The source spoke of talks between French Defense Minister Florence Parly and her Indian counterpart, Rajnath Singh, in September. The meeting, in New Delhi, covered Indo-French defense cooperation and procurement contracts, including “ongoing ones as well as possible future prospects,” the source said. “One of these is the P75I submarines tender.” The tender is to build six stealth submarines with air-independent propulsion technology that would have a longer submerged range than subs already being shipped to the Indian Navy. The deal, expected to be finalized sometime next year, is valued at 420 billion rupees ($5.6 billion), according to Harsh V Pant, chief of the Strategic Studies Programme, Observer Research Foundation. Naval Group is currently working with India’s state-owned Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders to deliver six Kalvari submarines that are valued at a combined 230 billion rupees ($3.13 billion). Two of these have already been launched, two are undergoing sea trials and two are under construction. The projects include technology transfers from the French company to its Indian partners. France has been doing more defense business with India during the past five years. According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, the country was India’s eighth largest arms supplier from 2010 to 2014, making $199 million worth of deals. It moved up to No. 3 during the following five years, completing $1.6 billion in deals. Russia and Israel were Nos. 1 and 2. Pant said France remains committed to India, particularly when it comes to transferring technology. “After the [technology transfers involved with the P75I submarines], it is estimated that the navy’s next submarine-building project would be entirely indigenous vis-a-vis its design and technology,” he said. India’s military budget allocations show how French arms producers are gaining ground. Usually, about 40% of India’s total defense capital outlays go to its air force. This has enabled India to buy 36 Rafale fighters from France’s Dassault Aviation, the first five of which were delivered in September. The army and navy typically win 20% to 30% of these outlays, but continuous submarine upgrades could require the Indian government to expand the navy’s budget in the coming years. New Delhi and Paris’ cooperation goes beyond arms deals. France also supports India’s bid to become a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council. “Paris recognized India’s geopolitical relevance much before others in continental Europe,” said Gulshan Sachdeva, a professor at the Centre for European Studies, School of International Studies, Jawaharlal Nehru University. Mohan Kumar, once India’s ambassador to France, said France is probably the only major power with which India has “no serious dispute or difference.” The U.S. raises trade disputes with India, Germany is not a Security Council member and the U.K. tries to maintain a balance in its relations with India and Pakistan. But “France has always stood by India,” Kumar said. “At the height of the 1998 nuclear tests, when the entire Western world declared India a pariah, France stood by us.” The countries also want to elevate their defense relations above the current seller-buyer dynamic. Toward that end, France and India, as well as Australia, have begun a dialogue to work outside of the Quad — the Indo-Pacific grouping of the U.S., India, Australia and Japan. At the first official level summit held virtually in September, the trio discussed climate, environment, biodiversity and challenges to multilateralism, Pant said. France has a naval base in Djibouti, near the northwestern rim of the Indian Ocean, and a territory, Reunion Island, in the same body of water. These holdings make New Delhi believe Paris would make for a good strategic partner as China builds up its naval presence throughout the sea. “Maritime security in the Indo-Pacific region,” Sachdeva said, “is likely to emerge as a key area of bilateral engagement in the coming years.”
 

WolfPack86

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Navantia S-80 Plus submarine one of the candidates for the Indian MoD P75I program

According to information released on the Facebook account of Navantia on November 6, 2020, the Director of Navantia India, Fernando Formoso Freire, has taken part in a round table discussion on the naval industry this Monday 9th November 2020. The event has been organized by the publishing group India Today, which is one of the most important media platforms in India. Navantia presents its S80 Plus Class submarine design to respond to the Indian P75I program launched by the Indian MoD (Ministry of Defense) for the acquisition of six conventional submarines with AIP (Air-independent propulsion). On January 2020, the Livefist Defence website has announced that the Indian MoD has shortlisted two Indian shipyards and five foreign submarine manufacturers for Project 75-India (P75I) submarine build program that envisages the construction of 6 new generation attack submarines in India at a cost of over $6.3 billion. Navantia’s experience in India as a submarine builder has the precedent of six Scorpene-Class units. This program was developed along with the French Naval Group (formerly DCNS) and the Mumbai CDM shipyard The two local shipyards that were shortlisted are the privately owned L&T group and state-owned MDL. The five foreign defense companies are Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering DSME (South Korea), Navantia (Spain), Naval Group (France), Rubin Design Bureau (Russia)and ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems TKMS (Germany). The S-80 Plus class (or Isaac Peral class) is a Spanish class of four submarines in production by the Spanish company Navantia in its Cartagena shipyard for the Spanish Navy. Navantia expects to deliver the first S-80 Plus to the Spanish Navy in 2021. The S-80’s air-independent propulsion (AIP) system is based on a bioethanol-processor consisting of a reaction chamber and several intermediate Coprox reactors. Provided by Hynergreen from Abengoa, the system transforms the bioethanol (BioEtOH) into high purity hydrogen. The output feeds a series of fuel cells from UTC Power company. The S-80 Plus-class submarines have a full load displacement of 3,200 tons, a total length of 81.05 m (265.9 ft), a beam of 11.68 m (38.3 ft) and a draught of 6.20 m (20.3 ft). With a cruising speed of 12 knots, the S-80 Plus-class submarines offer a range of 8,000 nm. The submarine can accommodate 32 personnel (plus 8 troops). The S-80 Plus-class submarine is equipped with 6 × 533 mm torpedo tubes with DM2A4 torpedoes and Harpoon missiles.
 

Okabe Rintarou

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This thread is 10 years old, wtf is our MoD doing? We take 10 years to conclude something? That’s why I have lost hope in Indian Military modernisation and size push.
No. We take >20 years.
Project-75 started in 1998. Its been 22 years and its submarines are only now entering the waters one by one. Induction will stretch till 2024 i.e. 26 years.
Project-75I started in 2008. These submarines will start entering waters around 2030 (hopefully, assuming no major construction delays).
Project-76 is the real mystery. Those are meant to be completely Indian designs. Any news of them? These will likely be built much more quickly since they are indigenous designs and therefore no haggling over prices an ToT are involved. Maybe we can see these within 15 years of program approval?
 

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No. We take >20 years.
Project-75 started in 1998. Its been 22 years and its submarines are only now entering the waters one by one. Induction will stretch till 2024 i.e. 26 years.
Project-75I started in 2008. These submarines will start entering waters around 2030 (hopefully, assuming no major construction delays).
Project-76 is the real mystery. Those are meant to be completely Indian designs. Any news of them? These will likely be built much more quickly since they are indigenous designs and therefore no haggling over prices an ToT are involved. Maybe we can see these within 15 years of program approval?
Project 76, 18 etc are still concepts. No use arguing about them until official statements are released.
 

NAMICA

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Project 76, 18 etc are still concepts. No use arguing about them until official statements are released.
It's official from navy that 12 submarines will be Indigenously designed and developed after p75I.
 

Okabe Rintarou

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I meant design specs, propulsion, builders, time frame etc. Has RFI been floated yet?
All these things are being worked out as we speak. I remember a couple years back that a possible CAD cut section image of the model was flashed in a video (can't remember which one it was). Either way, we can be sure that DND-SDG is working on it.
But yeah, there is no way to know when this project will actually take off from the drawing board and land onto MoD files. From there on out, I think its going to take 15 years for the first vessels to arrive in the fleet.
 

Killbot

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All these things are being worked out as we speak. I remember a couple years back that a possible CAD cut section image of the model was flashed in a video (can't remember which one it was). Either way, we can be sure that DND-SDG is working on it.
But yeah, there is no way to know when this project will actually take off from the drawing board and land onto MoD files. From there on out, I think its going to take 15 years for the first vessels to arrive in the fleet.
I see. Thats a tight time frame for something that is still in the early design phase.

Not to mention, the navy has some really ambitious projects going on. Between destroyers, corvettes, SSK, IAC 2, SSN, SSBN, new LHDs etc., will they be able to fund the projects? That's over $40 billion in the next 2 decades or so, not including aerial assets, maintenance of existing platforms, ongoing procurements, etc. And then there is the question of armaments, most of which cannot be sourced locally...
 

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