Possible SSGN for Indian Navy

[JBH22]

We need to quarantine @Haldilal, he is spreading his lingo disease.

On Topic:- Nuclear submarines are considered one of the most secretive projects and technologies of a country akin to nuclear weapons and stealth jets. Do you think France will sell them to us? Even Russians who are ready to sell their mothers for money only leased us soviet-era Akula.

The lease is to circumvent international convention, selling of nuclear subs is prohibited. At least before talking just do a random Google search.
Don't be like a paki sullah

 

[Lonewolf]

Let's make this discussion more informative , bring up specs of tomahawk vs nirbhay , possibility of arming with brahmos , such program across globe , feasibility , vls tube lenghth comparison .
@FalconSlayers @Okabe Rintarou @JBH22 @mist_consecutive

 

[mist_consecutive]

The lease is to circumvent international convention, selling of nuclear subs is prohibited. At least before talking just do a random Google search.
Don't be like a paki sullah

Are you Russian? Did you get hurt?
Otherwise suggest you avoid unwarranted personal remarks

 

[JBH22]

Are you Russian? Did you get hurt?
Otherwise suggest you avoid unwarranted personal remarks

No we don't use sell mother etc this is the language of porki.
I just wanted to clarify the why nuclear sub is leased.

 

[Lonewolf]

Tomahawk is 6.65 m with booster
Nirbhay almost 6 m

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

This.

When they come in for their refueling cycle, each Arihant can very well be converted to SSGN role (only if a corresponding S-5 becomes available to carry on the deterrence role though). The 4 x ballistic missile silos can be converted into cruise missile VLUs. A silo that can hold 3 x K15 SLBMs (0.74m diameter each) should be able to hold 5 or 6 Nirbhay-sized SLCMs (0.52m diameter each) - that would equal 20-24 long range LACMs per sub. Twice that of what a Virginia-class carries in its forward VLS (12).

If you use the Arihant class for SSGN, it won't be able to keep up with a surface fleet. An SSN with VLS is much better for this.

Any SSGN outside the air defence cover of surface ships would be toast the minute it is located. Do you have any tactics that can be employed to offset this disadvantage?

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Why can't a s5 sister class can't do the role , we can make necessary modification ,both class should go in production at same time , imagine a heavy ssbn and ssgn inducted together .

Don't know for sure, but S5 class, being an SSBN, might not be fast enough to keep up with a fleet of warships, and its toast outside air defence cover provided by the warships. Maybe we could have some VLS on the SSN?

 

[Lonewolf]

Don't know for sure, but S5 class, being an SSBN, might not be fast enough to keep up with a fleet of warships, and its toast outside air defence cover provided by the warships. Maybe we could have some VLS on the SSN?

Mo but being underwater for long time in enemy territory and in conflict firing brahmos in salvo mode on carrier battlegroup , imagine 50, 60 brahmos approaching your fleet of 20 ships .

Two ssn escorting it can take care of rest of submarine fleet .

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Mo but being underwater for long time in enemy territory and in conflict firing brahmos in salvo mode on carrier battlegroup , imagine 50, 60 brahmos approaching your fleet of 20 ships .

Two ssn escorting it can take care of rest of submarine fleet .

Its a good idea but you need to absolutely certain that those ships will get hit and destroyed with your missiles. Because if the enemy retaliates, you lose a very priced asset that costs more than Destroyers. Along with them, you put the SSN escorting it on risk.
This certainly can't be attempted in enemy territory (South China Sea) where even if you take out the fleet, they'll have drones or jets or ASW aircraft on top of you from land bases. Not to mention the entire trio of SSN and SSBN could get tracked all the way in to the South China Sea with passive sensors like a SOSUS hydrophone array. Not to mention the number of Chinese submarines in SCS alone will outnumber our submarine fleet.
A better idea is to hit them in the Indian Ocean when they are maneuvering towards the Indian Surface fleet. When the PLAN fleet crosses the Lombok or Sunda straits and come for us (during a war), we can have such a fleet of SSGN and SSN waiting in quiet mode South of these straits. When the PLAN fleet starts moving North towards Indian subcontinent and the waiting Indian surface fleet, the SSGN and SSN could follow them. Most of their ASW effort would be directed towards the front and flanks, making their aft slightly more vulnerable.

But for this to happen, SSGN should be capable of keeping up with the enemy fleet. An SSBN converted to SSGN role will likely not be fast enough. Maybe we could create a dedicated SSGN class with S4's body and the new S5 class's reactor? That would definitely be capable enough.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Let's make this discussion more informative , bring up specs of tomahawk vs nirbhay , possibility of arming with brahmos , such program across globe , feasibility , vls tube lenghth comparison .
@FalconSlayers @Okabe Rintarou @JBH22 @mist_consecutive

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Y'all Nibbiars
You don't know?

Y'all Nibbiars, iconic quotations from icons themselves.

 

[Edinburgh]

Its a good idea but you need to absolutely certain that those ships will get hit and destroyed with your missiles. Because if the enemy retaliates, you lose a very priced asset that costs more than Destroyers. Along with them, you put the SSN escorting it on risk.
This certainly can't be attempted in enemy territory (South China Sea) where even if you take out the fleet, they'll have drones or jets or ASW aircraft on top of you from land bases. Not to mention the entire trio of SSN and SSBN could get tracked all the way in to the South China Sea with passive sensors like a SOSUS hydrophone array. Not to mention the number of Chinese submarines in SCS alone will outnumber our submarine fleet.
A better idea is to hit them in the Indian Ocean when they are maneuvering towards the Indian Surface fleet. When the PLAN fleet crosses the Lombok or Sunda straits and come for us (during a war), we can have such a fleet of SSGN and SSN waiting in quiet mode South of these straits. When the PLAN fleet starts moving North towards Indian subcontinent and the waiting Indian surface fleet, the SSGN and SSN could follow them. Most of their ASW effort would be directed towards the front and flanks, making their aft slightly more vulnerable.

But for this to happen, SSGN should be capable of keeping up with the enemy fleet. An SSBN converted to SSGN role will likely not be fast enough. Maybe we could create a dedicated SSGN class with S4's body and the new S5 class's reactor? That would definitely be capable enough.

During the war to the South China Sea is more dangerous, China's South China Sea Fleet, 120 warships, including an aircraft carrier, destroyers 12（Nine of them have similar to Aegis radar，1 055 DDG,7 052D, 2 052C ），33 missile frigates, 10 nuclear submarines and 17 conventional submarines, There are also a large number of ground-based fighters cruising. To be honest, the strength and tonnage of the South China Sea fleet is no longer under the INN，and all in the South China Sea. Better in the Indian Ocean to play with them

 

[FalconSlayers]

Its a good idea but you need to absolutely certain that those ships will get hit and destroyed with your missiles. Because if the enemy retaliates, you lose a very priced asset that costs more than Destroyers. Along with them, you put the SSN escorting it on risk.
This certainly can't be attempted in enemy territory (South China Sea) where even if you take out the fleet, they'll have drones or jets or ASW aircraft on top of you from land bases. Not to mention the entire trio of SSN and SSBN could get tracked all the way in to the South China Sea with passive sensors like a SOSUS hydrophone array. Not to mention the number of Chinese submarines in SCS alone will outnumber our submarine fleet.
A better idea is to hit them in the Indian Ocean when they are maneuvering towards the Indian Surface fleet. When the PLAN fleet crosses the Lombok or Sunda straits and come for us (during a war), we can have such a fleet of SSGN and SSN waiting in quiet mode South of these straits. When the PLAN fleet starts moving North towards Indian subcontinent and the waiting Indian surface fleet, the SSGN and SSN could follow them. Most of their ASW effort would be directed towards the front and flanks, making their aft slightly more vulnerable.

But for this to happen, SSGN should be capable of keeping up with the enemy fleet. An SSBN converted to SSGN role will likely not be fast enough. Maybe we could create a dedicated SSGN class with S4's body and the new S5 class's reactor? That would definitely be capable enough.

SSGN is good for Intelligence led Ambushes IMO, like if you see a hostile fleet incoming then you can fire a barrage of Cruise missiles in this case Hypersonic cruise missiles from your SSGN from Far away and can sink the whole fleet in one go, you’ll have 60-70 cruise missiles if you have a Baraccuda class sub modified as an SSGN.

 

[Lonewolf]

SSGN is good for Intelligence led Ambushes IMO, like if you see a hostile fleet incoming then you can fire a barrage of Cruise missiles in this case Hypersonic cruise missiles from your SSGN from Far away and can sink the whole fleet in one go, you’ll have 60-70 cruise missiles if you have a Baraccuda class sub modified as an SSGN.

Why don't arihant , ssn are generally not used for ssgn as they have torpedo tube as main armament , a more manuverable ssbn will do the job of ssgn as in ohio class case .
S 4 class us ideal as it uses 8 vls ,if each is armed with 5 hypersonic missile at least ,as we have longer vls than ohio , we will have 40 missile .

By enemy territory in my previous posts ,i meant area near malacca strait or region near china oversea base ,where we can sink whole chinese fleet .

 

[FalconSlayers]

Why don't arihant , ssn are generally not used for ssgn as they have torpedo tube as main armament , a more manuverable ssbn will do the job of ssgn as in ohio class case .
S 4 class us ideal as it uses 8 vls ,if each is armed with 5 hypersonic missile at least ,as we have longer vls than ohio , we will have 40 missile .

By enemy territory in my previous posts ,i meant area near malacca strait or region near china oversea base ,where we can sink whole chinese fleet .

Or why not Conventional AIP Cruise Missile Submarines?

 

[Lonewolf]

Or why not Conventional AIP Cruise Missile Submarines?

Then it wouldn't be ssgn , it would be something like project 75i , we would require refill for long distance deterrence patrol , where as a nuclear submarine can move for much longer distance with enough food backup

 

[FalconSlayers]

Then it wouldn't be ssgn , it would be something like project 75i , we would require refill for long distance deterrence patrol , where as a nuclear submarine can move for much longer distance with enough food backup

We can do both to compliment our power but in any case we should have dedicated SSGNs or Cruise Missile Submarines.

 

[FalconSlayers]

 

[no smoking]

SSGN is good for Intelligence led Ambushes IMO, like if you see a hostile fleet incoming then you can fire a barrage of Cruise missiles in this case Hypersonic cruise missiles from your SSGN from Far away and can sink the whole fleet in one go, you’ll have 60-70 cruise missiles if you have a Baraccuda class sub modified as an SSGN.

The real question is: how your submarine can see a hostile fleet incoming in a hostile area?

Detecting, tracking the hostile fleet and providing the terminal navigation, all need a massive and complicated network which itself is very vulnerable. In the case of Russia and China, both of them are putting the majority of the network on their coast.

 

[FalconSlayers]

The real question is: how your submarine can see a hostile fleet incoming in a hostile area?

Detecting, tracking the hostile fleet and providing the terminal navigation, all need a massive and complicated network which itself is very vulnerable. In the case of Russia and China, both of them are putting the majority of the network on their coast.

Drones can be launched through Baraccuda class SSNs for surveillance.