Pak army repeats Kargil in Keran

[ladder]

at-least they showed that they got balls to challenge India

May be you are right but, they only do operation to show balls and leave their brains out of the loop while planning.
That's why I mentioned M-e-M type operation.
That's their signature.

 

[happy]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India...u-and-Kashmir-intruders/Article1-1130738.aspx

The fierce gunfight in Kashmir's Keran sector that looked like a massive infiltration attempt 10 days ago has now snowballed into a battle for "territorial control" between the Indian Army and Pakistan-backed terrorists, a security official told Hindustan Times.

"The sheer force of firing by a large group of about 40 well-trained terrorists, being helped by Pakistan's special forces, has forced the army out of some of its vantage positions,'' the official said of the incident that has prompted some to draw to comparisions with crossborder intrusions that led to the Kargil war.

Keran: Fear mounts in village General claimed does not exist

http://www.firstpost.com/india/kera...e-general-claimed-does-not-exist-1152159.html

Keran: On September 23, Mohammad Sultan Khan, 37, a resident of Zirhama village in Kupwara's Keran Sector, was standing on the thatched rooftop of his wooden shack as family members prepared for dinner. Around 8 pm, there was the unmistakable sound of gunfire from the nearby village of Shala Bhata, an uninhabited village of abandoned houses and a few oval-shaped army bunkers built of mud. There was rattling gunfire and accompanying blasts, unnerving the Khan family.

On Thursday morning, sources said, there was sporadic exchange of fire at four places in Keran Sector. Whenever the Indian Army tried to move ahead closer to the LoC, the men were met with heavy machine gun fire from the Pakistani side. "The infiltrators, it seems from the ground, have the full backing of the Pakistani army who are using heavy machine guns to stop the forward movement of the Army," a police official in Kupwara told Firstpost.

Why cant we target the paki posts across the border? Would that escalate the conflict?

 

[Ray]

It is a thickly forested area with mountains.

One is not aware if the troops as to the extent the troops have closed in on the terrorists.

Given the forest cover, use of gunships is 'iffy'.

In such circumstances, I think the area where the terrorists are located should be subjected to a preponderance of artillery fire so that the heavy weight and volume of continuous fire creates shock and kills (to include kills by trees falling down under the weight of fire). Then a gap in the firing, so that the terrorist attempt to get a better hiding place, but are in shock. This is the time to release a preponderance of airburst shelling.

That is assuming that the terrorists are not well dug in or in caves.

One cannot know exactly what is happening or where they are actually since it is all shrouded by mystery.

 

[sayareakd]

It is a thickly forested area with mountains.

One is not aware if the troops as to the extent the troops have closed in on the terrorists.

Given the forest cover, use of gunships is 'iffy'.

In such circumstances, I think the area where the terrorists are located should be subjected to a preponderance of artillery fire so that the heavy weight and volume of continuous fire creates shock and kills (to include kills by trees falling down under the weight of fire). Then a gap in the firing, so that the terrorist attempt to get a better hiding place, but are in shock. This is the time to release a preponderance of airburst shelling.

That is assuming that the terrorists are not well dug in or in caves.

One cannot know exactly what is happening or where they are actually since it is all shrouded by mystery.

sir it is not that thick forest, look at the UAV thermal feed.

 

[Blackwater]

We can't use our M-17, army tried for Dhruv's but due to terrain and forest cover it never worked, and they are vulnerable to small arm fires at such a low altitude. We need something like Spike or Javelin, a handheld powerpack to flush them out.

IA tried choppers gun ship but realized pakis have stinger and heavy weapon. So to avoid embarrassment , IA decided not to use choppers in fear of crash and media limelight

 

[Apollyon]

at-least they showed that they got balls to challenge India

There's a difference between acting brave and acting dunce. When you know there are bloody big odd's of you being getting killed while carrying out the operation with no subsequent aim other than showing a finger to your enemy then you're a dunce.

 

[Blackwater]

Keran intrusion nowhere close to the Kargil situation, says Army Chief

saving his skin and avoid embarrassment

 

[Blackwater]

There's a difference between acting brave and acting dunce. When you know there are bloody big odd's of you being getting killed while carrying out the operation with no subsequent aim other than showing a finger to your enemy then you're a dunce.

in this case its IA being dunce

 

[Ray]

sir it is not that thick forest, look at the UAV thermal feed.

I have served there and with the little knowledge I have, it is a very difficult area and it depends as to where exactly the terrorists are. I will also concede that my stay here was for a limited period, being a reserve battalion with other tasks too.

If you see Kuwara or even Keran, it appears fine, but as you go up, it get more rugged, mountainous, sparse populated and forested.

 

[Ray]

saving his skin and avoid embarrassment

I don't think so that he is saving his skin and avoiding embarrassment.

From what we are learning from the media is that it is localised.

Kargil was over a front that IIRC was 178 kms in length from Kaobal Gali to Chorbatla!

There lies the difference.

Also why blame him. The Govt may have said that they have given the Army a free hand.

Have they?

Not if you go by what Khurshed says - he finds every incursion is but an acne!

Or the belief of our worthy Defence Minister that the terrorists were having a fancy dress party wearing Pak Army uniforms, when the patrol barged in and terrorists killed the patrol angered that the patrol had barged into the Fancy Dress Party uninvited!

In the Chinese intrusion, the Chief had plans to counter the Chinese and it was spelt out and carried in the media. The Govt did not allow him!

Give him a break, please.

It is very difficult to command an Army with sheep dictating terms in the Govt!

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

Ray Sir, Bikram Singh had plans to counter the Chinese ?
Source pls...

Chief had plans to counter the Chinese......

 

[Ray]

Ray Sir, Bikram Singh had plans to counter the Chinese ?
Source pls...

I don't remember where I read it or saw on TV, but he had stated that India could do a counter incursion where India was in a better position.

 

[hit&run]

at-least they showed that they got balls to challenge India

That also means that they have miserably lost their cause and non of their plan is working so now with extreme frustration they have gone suicidal.

The Pakistani army which boast being a regional power and its loud mouth supporters cheer for it with fake bravado are not conceding their pathetic state that they have gone low by using Jihadis, even having a military alliance with China and previously with USA.

 

[sayareakd]

at-least they showed that they got balls to challenge India

it is not about having balls, it is to the fact that Pakistan has got govt, which is not in favor of its military be given undue funding. So they are just keeping the pot boil, to get more funding and to paint India as its enemy.

They are basically doing this for their very survival, without money their army cant survive for long.

 

[happy]

I don't remember where I read it or saw on TV, but he had stated that India could do a counter incursion where India was in a better position.

Yeah, I remember reading that he proposed to the govt that IA should push forward into Chini territory and occupy similar size area until the chinese go back.

 

[ramakrishna]

Can any one give answer to this question??? saw this comment on some website....

They intruded and held our village, and what were we doing? Are we so incompetent that we keep fighting this battle in our territory only, why can't we take this fight in Pakistan's territory. Why don't we have balls to do the same in POK what Pak has been doing in Indian Kashmir?

 

[happy]

Can any one give answer to this question??? saw this comment on some website....

simple, we have chicken heads.

We know very well that the law allows us to kill in self defence. BUT, our political brass are like a lady who is a mute spectator to a tussle between her husband and a murderer instead of using the cudgel to smash the enemies brains, and the best part, just because the neighbors may say something.

 

[ramakrishna]

simple, we have chicken heads.

We know very well that the law allows us to kill in self defence. BUT, our political brass are like a lady who is a mute spectator to a tussle between her husband and a murderer instead of using the cudgel to smash the enemies brains, and the best part, just because the neighbors may say something.

agree with ya .... I hope if Modi lead NDA elected in 2014 .. things will change ....

 

[Neil]

IAF ready to assist Army in Keran operations: Chief


Indian Air Force is ready to assist Army in its operations against heavily-fortified infiltrators in Keran sector of Kashmir, IAF boss Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne said today even as he termed the ongoing episode "small and localised".

"We are all monitoring it (the situation). It's a very small and localised operation. They (army) have UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles).

"All the means are fully available with army. If they still need some assistance, we are there to provide it. There is no problem," Browne told journalists during the annual interaction with media on Air Force Day.

Army was fully capable of dealing with the situation, the IAF chief said, while suggesting it was unlikely that IAF would be asked to get involved.

"Air Force does not get into things like this (Keran operations). Air Force gets into things which are much, much bigger," he said.

He echoed Army Chief General Bikram Singh's views that it is a localised operation where some infiltrators have been cornered in the Valley.

Browne, who is also Chairman of the Chiefs of Staff Committee, agreed with security concerns over the increasing violations along the Line of Control and said there have been far more cases this year than in the last two-three years.

"Yes, there is increased intensity in the amount of LoC violations this year. I mean this is there for the whole world to see"¦ Sanctity of ceasefire on LoC must be maintained," he said.

"In some years, there is less activity, in some years there is more. It's been a little excessive as the routes will close down very shortly, once the snow sets in. So, frenetic efforts are made


IAF ready to assist Army in Keran operations: Chief | idrw.org

 

[ladder]

Indian Army's operation continues with final combing of infiltrators

Read more at: Indian Army's operation continues with final combing of infiltrators - News Oneindia

Srinagar, Oct 4: The army operation against a group of infiltrating guerrillas in the Keran sector on the Line of Control (LOC) continued for the 11th day Friday. The cordoned off area has not been cleared by the army in north Kashmir's Kupwara district. The army cordoned off a motley group of 35-40 heavily armed militants on the Indian side of the LOC in the Keran sector Sep 24, foiling a major infiltration bid. Defence sources told IANS Friday that two brigades of the army have been tasked to tackle the group. "We are moving into the area with caution because the militants could have planted booby traps in the area." "The bodies of 15 guerrillas killed in this operation so far have not been recovered, because our priority is to ensure that the those militants inside the area are not allowed to escape," the defence sources said. Another defence source said the "probing fire by the army troopers has not been responded to by the militants in the cordoned area for the last many hours now". Lt.Gen. Gurmit Singh, the General Officer Commanding (GOC) of the Srinagar based 15th corps, has already told reporters that no post of the Indian Army has either been vacated by the army or has been occupied by the guerrillas in the area. He, however, said the gathering of a large number of guerrillas at one time is a new methodology of the infiltrating groups, and some border action teams (BAT) were also involved in Keran infiltration bid. The BAT in the army parlance refers to a group of 20 to 25 heavily armed and motivated guerrillas, who are used to help infiltration into the state. The corps commander said it was too early to suggest that the Pakistan Army was directly involved in Keran infiltration bid. The Keran operation came up for a mention in the state legislative assembly now in session in Srinagar. Harsh Dev Singh of the Panthers Party raised the issue in the assembly and demanded a statement from the government. He said since the Keran build-up involved the territory of Jammu and Kashmir, the state government must make a statement. Speaker Mubarak Gul said the details about the operation would be with the army and defence ministry, and the state government would take time to obtain authentic information on it from the ministry. Later, the members of the Panthers Party walked out of the assembly, raising slogans against Pakistan.

Read more at: Indian Army's operation continues with final combing of infiltrators - News Oneindia

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Defence sources told IANS Friday that two brigades of the army have been tasked to tackle the group.

Read more at: Indian Army's operation continues with final combing of infiltrators - News Oneindia

Is it normal to press into action two brigades for this kind of operation? Or something on larger scale is happening than it has been declared?