P-8I maritime patrol aircraft

abhay rajput

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Read this from BRF

The Harpoon II costs around $1.4 Million per round (less than 1/2 the cost of the LRASM). Add a 5% FMS surcharge and you'll get a very good indication of what the IN will pay per round. DSCA notifications do not include definitized contract amounts (they are pre-award estimates). As I have shown multiple times now, at times they have been off by as much as 50% when one compares the FMS estimate (a reporting requirement and upper limit) and actual contract award. I'd be surprised if the IN pays anything more than $2 million per round. But then sustainment and upgrades are probably rolled into these as well but it would be quite surprising if the final definitized contract award is anything more than $50 or so million. Better would be to search through MOD documents or Boeing awards for the actual contract amount which usually follows 6-8 months later (after notification) if the activity is pursued.
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John
BRF Oldie
Re: Indian Naval Aviation
Post15 Apr 2020 06:32

Yes but even at 50% it will be quite more than mil per missile anyway we won’t know. We paid quite a lot for MM40 as well which were supposed to be cheaper than harpoon.
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brar_w
BRF Oldie
Re: Indian Naval Aviation
Post15 Apr 2020 06:46

The 50% data is just from a small sampling I did a while back. Also FMS deals often add sustainment to their estimates as well so you could well have other costs like the EC enhancements over time added to the estimate (which may or may not be included in the final negotiated contract). Individual missile unit cost is unlikely to be more than 10-15% of what the USN pays for something brand new (though the USN does not buy new Harpoon II's). DSCA loves to add a whole host of contractor and USG services that may or may not be a part of any eventual deal.

What is said before . This quotation is to gain approval from us Congress. So they maximise it to the tilt so they don't have to seek permission again in case buyer wants full package .

If USA weaponry was so costly USA won't be the biggest defense exporter on the planet.
I have told you that USA weaponry is cheap for there vessel states. For us it's a hell lot expensive and I have given you the price. You have created mumbo jumbo . I understand your thinking so good day.
 

IndianHawk

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I have told you that USA weaponry is cheap for there vessel states. For us it's a hell lot expensive and I have given you the price. You have created mumbo jumbo . I understand your thinking so good day.
I took the trouble of explaining to you multiple times. I even went to other forums and copied the exact discussion from people who are related to subject. And you reply with snark. Good luck buddy .

Now you go to ignore list .
 

WolfPack86

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Boeing to deliver the P8I maritime surveillance aircraft to India from July
The lot of four Boeing P8I maritime surveillance aircraft, which will further widen the arc of Indian Navy operations, is expected to start arriving in phases as per the contractual schedule commencing in July. In the US, the defence manufacturing industry is part of the essential works. The work, so far, is on as per the schedule, the Ministry of Defence has been informed.

“The contract stipulated supplies to commence from July 2020,” sources said. Once the lockdown ends in India, matters will be known better.

From April 20 onwards, the forces will start working with 50 per cent staff and then onwards the procurements cells will start functioning.


Indian Navy has been using the Boeing P8I planes since 2013 and now has a fleet of eight. Four more are to be added over the next 18 months or so.

The P8I is a long range maritime reconnaissance (LRMR), but carries anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and anti-ship strike abilities. The planes are used for patrolling the Sea Lanes of Communication (SLOC’s) extending east and west of peninsular India.
 

WolfPack86

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Indian Navy’s P-8I Maritime Aircraft potent hunters to get deadly Harpoon Missiles
The Trump administration has recently put its stamp of approval on the sale of ten AGM-84L Harpoon Block II air-launched missiles, including the complete maintenance support package and training to integrate them with P-8I aircraft. With the integration of these air launched anti-ship missiles, the P-8I shall be able to engage and destroy hostile surface warships of choice, even while they form a part of a Task Force unit.

“The AGM-84L is a solid propellant well tested sea-skimming missile with a range of 67 nautical miles and shall enable the Indian Navy to undertake Airborne maritime surface target engagement tactics more effectively. A missile with the destructive power of AGM-84L Harpoon capability fitted on an advance aircraft like P-8I shall surely improve India’s response to any hostile presence lurking within India’s maritime area of interest,” Milind Kulshreshtha, C4I expert says.

The delivery of the follow-on order for four additional aircraft which was placed in 2016 was to commence in July.


Though, not yet formally confirmed by Boeing officials, with the US also locked down, the delivery schedule could be pushed back a little.


Role of P-8I Maritime Patrol Aircrafts ::

The P-8I aircraft have been acknowledged as an advanced airborne platform by Indian Navy, and a force multiplier with its in-built inter-operability capabilities.

“This makes P-8I a multi-mission aircraft with C4I ingrained within its Concept of Operations, a dedicated tactical data link fully supporting it in the inter-operability features. In 2018, the two countries had signed the Communications, Compatibility and Security Agreement (COMCASA) which enabled interoperability between the US and Indian defence forces, including the P-8I and US, operated P-8A fleets. This means, now the two P-8 variants can share the Common Operation Picture (COP) in real-time to plan and execute missions as per this tactical picture to improve the resource effectiveness,” the C4I expert explains.

The primary designed role of the P-8I aircraft is to provide airborne Anti-submarine Warfare (ASW) capability to Indian Navy, to detect unknown submarines and ships lurking within India’s area of interest.

“The aircraft is capable of launching submarine detection sonobuoys (active and passive) and can deploy more than hundred sonobuoys as part of ASW operations. During the Fleet operations, P-8I ASW aircraft forms an important component for protecting the Task Force assets, especially from any type of submarine attack and it forms a barrier screen around the main Task Force. The radius of this ASW screen is computed by aircrafts onboard Command and Control system based on various factors like hostile submarine torpedo ranges and disposition of own assets. The intent is to detect and neutralize any hostile submarine before it launches a torpedo. For this, the P8I can not only detect the target but can classify and attack it too by using onboard torpedoes and depth charges,” he adds.


Role Enhancement of P-8I Fleet ::

The initial P-8I aircraft which have arrived in India since 2013 are equipped with long-range Anti Submarine Warfare (ASW) suite, Anti-surface Warfare and ISR (Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance) systems and also had indigenous components fitted as part of communication and sensor suite.

The Boeing’s P-8 series aircraft were already designed to carry four Harpoon missiles and five torpedoes in an offensive role. However, the AGM-84L Harpoon anti-ship missiles did not form part of P-8I aircraft complement to Indian Navy.

“Now, with US Government clearing the sales of these anti-ship Harpoon missiles, India is in a position to go ahead to process a formal Supply Order to procure these missiles. With the augmentation of Surface Warfare feature with airborne threat engagement capability, India’s adversaries too shall be required to change their own covert data-gathering missions within the country’s area of interest,” he opines.

Keeping in view the forthcoming budget constraints to procure military hardware, augmenting and enhancing features to fully utilize each seaborne or airborne military platform should be the mantra for India to achieve future military dominance.
 

WolfPack86

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India's P-8I Poseidon Surveillance Aircraft Are Getting U.S. Harpoon Missiles: U.S. Media
And torpedoes too




Here's What You Need To Remember: While India has the joint Russian/Indian BrahMos missile, the missile is very large, and likely would have significant dimensional and technical difficulties integrating with the P-8I




by Charlie Gao



On April 13, the United States Department of Defence's Defence Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) announced that the Department of State approved two foreign military sales of naval weapons to the Republic of India. The sales were for the AGM-84L air-launched Harpoon anti-ship missile, and the Mk54 Lightweight Torpedo.



However, the sales are relatively small—only ten Harpoons and sixteen Mk54s—though support equipment and practice torpedoes are included in the package. The weapons are also set to be solely used on India’s fleet of P-8I Poseidon Maritime Patrol Aircraft, giving the aircraft strike as well as surveillance capability. The small numbers probably mean that the armament is meant to be an interim capability while India integrates their own torpedoes and anti-ship missiles onto the P-8I.



But it’s not yet clear whether the sale will go through, as the DSCA’s announcement simply means that the sale may happen; it does not confirm that a sale will happen. There likely will be internal resistance to the sale, as India’s own Defence Research and Development Organisation has a lightweight torpedo of their own, the Shyena, which is a mature product. The Shyena was delivered to the Myanmar Navy in July 2019, and is supposedly in service in the Indian Navy. However, India has had P-8Is for over five years at this point, so DRDO has had plenty of time to integrate their own design.



The sale of Harpoons is more understandable. While India has the joint Russian/Indian BrahMos missile, the missile is very large, and likely would have significant dimensional and technical difficulties integrating with the P-8I. While the BrahMos has been integrated onto the Su-30MKI fighter, this process has taken a long time, and only recently was completed.

The sale also poses geopolitical concern in the region. Both DSCA announcement emphasised that their respective sale would not upset the military balance in the region, but despite that Pakistan has complained that the arms sale is destabilising, with a Pakistan Foreign Ministry spokesperson even giving the possibility that India may conduct a false flag attack while global efforts are focused on combating the COVID-19 Coronavirus. Pakistan also operates Harpoon anti-ship missile, albeit in earlier versions, though it does not operate the Mk54 Lightweight Torpedo.



In the larger picture, this follows the trend of India wanting to “buy American” weapons, continuing on their procurement of AH-64 Apaches and Sig Sauer, Inc. rifles. This is a marked change from their earlier policy of primarily buying European or Russian equipment, though Russian equipment is still heavily represented in the Indian military. However, it has been reported that the Indian military was not satisfied with the performance of Russian missiles during the 2019 India/Pakistan border skirmish.



But as stated above, this has the possibility of pushing Pakistan, which has traditionally bought American too, away. Pakistan seems to be increasing their defence cooperation with China, and will likely continue to do so into the near future. Pakistan already cooperates with China on the Zulfiquar-class frigate, which is set to be armed with a fully Chinese armament set. Chinese and American equipment may face each other for the first time in combat during a India/Pakistan skirmish.
 

WolfPack86

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AGM-158C LRASM: Indian P-8 fleet soon will have far deadlier missile then BrahMos

In 2020, the U.S. Navy began the process of integrating the AGM-158C LRASM onto the P-8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft, Trials of which they plan to be completed by 2026 and missiles system made available for entire P-8 Operator including Indian Navy which is currently the second-biggest operator of the type after USN. AGM-158C LRASM will supersede AGM-84D Block 1C Harpoon anti-ship missiles which are currently deployed by all P-8 Operators including India and is designed to meet the needs to fight in contested environments. According to US media reports, India and Australia have been selected as the first few countries that will get LRASM to strengthen their firepower in an increasingly contested Indo-Pacific region AGM-158C Long Range Anti-Ship Missile is a stealthy anti-ship cruise missile developed for the United States Air Force and the United States Navy. LRASM has a range of 450 km to 1000 km depending on the warhead used which is 450kgs for 450 km range if reduced it improves upon its range, which means each P-8 aircraft can carry two different LRSAM with two different warheads with two different range. LRASM is a subsonic and Stealthy cruise missile that is equipped with sophisticated autonomous targeting capabilities, mid-course guidance, low-altitude profile, and obstacle-avoidance algorithms which even with subsonic speeds makes it far deadlier than current contemporary missiles. LRASM is designed to detect and destroy specific targets within groups of ships by employing advanced technologies that reduce dependence on intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance platforms, network links, and GPS navigation in electronic warfare environments.
 

WolfPack86

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Four sub-killer P-8I craft coming to India next year, then talks for six more

India’s long-range anti-submarine, reconnaissance, surveillance and electronic jamming capabilities in the Indian Ocean Region are going to get a further boost with the induction of four more P-8I multi-mission aircraft from the US next year. India has the option of buying another six from Boeing to be negotiated later in 2021, people familiar with the developments in New Delhi and Seattle said.

The Indian Navy variant of the P-8A Poseidon - P-8I where I stands for India - is essentially designed for maritime patrol. Integrated with the Harpoon Block II air launched missiles and lightweight torpedoes, the reconnaissance craft - it can carry 129 sonobuoys to locate subs - turns into a deadly submarine killer that can also launch anti-ship missiles.

The proposed acquisitions come against the backdrop of China’s efforts to militarise the South China Sea and expand its sea footprint.


Beijing had already acquired a string of ports in Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Iran and east Africa to not only contain the Indian Navy but also challenge the presence of US Central Command forces as well as French and British Navy.

Beijing has 70 percent stake in Kyaukpyu port in Myanmar, which sits in the Bay of Bengal, Hambantota port in South Sri Lanka dominates the Indian Ocean, Gwadar port in Pakistan sits on the mouth of Gulf of Oman and the port of Jask in Iran is located on the edge of Persian Gulf.

National security planners believed that the possibility of China attempting to replicate its aggressive posture along the Line of Actual Control at a time of its choosing in the Indian Ocean Region was very real, a government official said.

India also inched closer to formalising the anti-China QUAD - Quadrilateral Security Dialogue - strategic grouping. The United States, Japan and Australia are the other members.

In some measure, the QUAD is already a reality on the high seas due to India signing the Communications, Compatibility and Security Agreement (COMCASA) agreement in September 2019. The P-8I helped.

The pact provided the legal framework for exchange of encrypted communication. P-8I makes this possible with ease, particularly since the aircrafts are interoperable, can communicate securely and is designed for .

“This is a de-facto QUAD because these have interoperability with the P-8A Poseidon delivered to other countries,” said the official.

The secure communications enables one aircraft to share real-time operational intelligence, including a Common Tactical Picture with other P-8 aircraft.

The P-8I aircraft is designed for long-range anti-submarine warfare, anti-surface warfare, and intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance missions. It operates with joint and combined

But it can be used elsewhere too. The military had relied on the reconnaissance aircraft for surveillance during the ongoing Ladakh standoff with China as well as the 2017 Doklam standoff.

It has a range of about 2,200 km and flies at a maximum speed of 490 knots, or 789 km per hour.

The negotiations for the purchase of six more P-8I aircraft are yet to begin, a government official in New Delhi said. The purchase of six P-8I was cleared by the Defence Acquisition Council in November 2019, long before the stand-off with an aggressive China along the Line of Actual Control in Ladakh.

 

WolfPack86

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India moves to buy 6 more Poseidons from US for $1.8bn
India has formally kicked off the acquisition process for six more long-range Poseidon-8I aircraft from the US, while a plan is also underway for fast-track procurement of six Predator-B armed drones amidst the ongoing military confrontation with China.

India is extensively using the naval P-8I patrol planes, which are packed with radars and electro-optic sensors as well as armed with Harpoon Block-II missiles and MK-54 lightweight torpedoes, for surveillance missions over the Indian Ocean as well as eastern Ladakh.

The Navy had inducted eight Boeing-manufactured P-8I aircraft under a $2.1 billion deal inked in January 2009, while the next four will be delivered from this December onwards under another $1.1 billion contract signed in July 2016.

Top defence sources on Friday said the “letter of request” for six more P-8Is for around $1.8 billionhas now been issued to the US for the government-to-government deal under Pentagon’s foreign military sales (FMS) programme. “The US, in turn, will soon send the ‘letter of acceptance’ after congressional approval. The contract should be inked by early next year,” said a source.

Concurrently, the armed forces are examining “an emergency procurement” of six Predator-B or weaponized Sea Guardian drones from the US in wake of the ongoing confrontation with China along the 3,488-km long Line of Actual Control, especially in eastern Ladakh.

TOI was the first to report last year that India had finalized the plan to acquire 30 Predator-B drones, 10 each for the Army, Navy and IAF, with different payloads to hunt and destroy targets over land and sea. But the high cost of the deal, upwards of $3.5 billion, has somewhat delayed the inking of the final contract.

“The original plan for the 30 Predators will take some more time. Meanwhile, the utilization of the fast-track procurement (FTP) route for acquiring six of these drones – two each for the three Services – is now under active consideration,” said another source.

It will be a huge jump in unmanned lethal capability for the armed forces if the “hunter-killer” Sea Guardians, with their advanced ground control stations, launch and recovery elements, air-to-ground missiles, smart bombs and the like, are actually acquired by India.

The inking of the bilateral military pact with the US called COMCASA (Communications, Compatibility and Security Arrangement) in September 2018 has paved the way for greater access to advanced military technologies with encrypted and secure communications and data links from the country.

The six new P-8I aircraft, for instance, will have COMCASA-protected equipment, which are much more advanced and secure than the commercially available ones. The Sea Guardians also have such equipment like advanced Global Positioning System (GPS), Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) receiver and VHF system, which are immune to jamming and spoofing from enemies.

As was earlier reported by TOI, the US has already bagged lucrative Indian defence deals worth over $21 billion just since 2007, with latest ones for 24 MH-60 ‘Romeo’ multi-role naval helicopters and six more Apache attack choppers for around $3 billion being inked during President Donald Trump’s visit here in February.
 

WolfPack86

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IN328, the first of the 4 follow-on Boeing P-8I Neptune MPA of the Indian Navy doing some flight tests in Boeing Field, Seattle, USA. These 4 MPAs will be operated by INAS315 "Winged Stallion" stationed in INS Hansa in Dabolim, Goa. Hence the "DAB" marking on the tail.
 

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Indian Navy to get New “Submarine Hunters ” next month in Goa
Indian surveillance and anti-submarine capabilities over the Arabian Sea and the Indian Ocean region will get stronger when the second batch of the Indian Navy’s Boeing P-8I maritime surveillance aircraft will land at INS Hansa in October.


The arrival of the multi-role aircraft from the US will enhance the aerial balance and sub-surface surveillance in India’s favour, naval officials said. The Indian Navy currently operates eight P-8I aircraft that are based at INS Rajali, Arakkonam in Tamil Nadu, and this will be the first P-8I to be based on India’s west coast.


The aircraft is expected to arrive in the first week of October from Boeing’s facility in Seattle and will be based at INS Hansa.


Hansa is the base where the Indian Navy’s tryst with maritime surveillance began. According to naval officials in Delhi, after landing at INS Hansa, the P-8I will fly to INS Rajali for a temporary deployment.


The Indian Navy ordered eight P-8I jets in January 2009 and after seeing the aircraft’s performance, a follow-on order for four more aircrafts was placed in 2016. This is the first aircraft from the follow-on contract.


“It is a multi-role aircraft as it can track and even attack submarines and surface ships. It is a very potent aircraft and a generation ahead of Pakistan, which is still with the P-3 Orion, a turboprop aircraft,” former chief of naval staff admiral Arun Prakash said.


With a maximum speed of 789 kmph and an operating range of over 1,200 nautical miles, the P-8I is also a leap ahead from the Ilyushin Il-38 (IL 38) that the navy operates from Goa.


“This aircraft flies at 40,000 ft which gives it a longer range and this means that India’s area of influence is much bigger. We must remember that we have hegemonic and expansionist neighbours,” captain (retd) D K Sharma said.


The deployment of the P-8I comes against the backdrop of China’s repeated forays into the Arabian Sea under the guise of anti-piracy operations. Beijing has established a presence at a string of ports in Myanmar, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Iran and east Africa which could pose a threat to India.
Though the P-8I is a long range maritime surveillance aircraft, it has also been deployed during the on-going standoff with China in Ladakh as well as during the 2017 Doklam standoff. The Indian Navy has also deployed the P-8I for humanitarian assistance and disaster relief (HADR) operations during cyclones.
 

WolfPack86

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India To Get More Eyes To Monitor Chinese Presence In IOR & SCS: Navy To Get P8I Aircraft
Indian Navy is getting ready to receive one of the four P-8I Maritime Patrol Aircraft later this month. With an additional P-8I aircraft in its fleet, India’s surveillance, reconnaissance, and electronic jamming capabilities will get a boost in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR). Sources have confirmed to Financial Express Online, “As per the delivery schedule one out of the four aircraft are expected to arrive soon (before the month ends). And the balance three will arrive next year.”

The aircraft which was expected to come earlier was delayed due to the global pandemic COVID-19 and the lockdown.

The configuration of the aircraft expected to arrive soon will be of the same configuration as the previous eight that are in service in the Indian Navy. Also, as reported by Financial Express Online earlier, there are plans of installing encrypted communications systems which have been delivered earlier. After India and the US inked the Communications, Compatibility and Security Agreement (COMCASA), the installation of the encrypted communications systems on these P8i aircraft. These aircraft are coming from the Boeing Company.

How Does COMCASA Agreement Help?

It is the way ahead for achieving the interoperability, especially for the US-supplied defence equipment and platforms. It also helps as when the militaries of the two countries are involved in complex drills in sea, air, underwater or on land.

With COMCASA in place, the P8i (specific for the Indian Navy requirement) and P8A Poseidon aircraft, the US Navy variant of the aircraft will be able to share real-time operational intelligence, which also includes a secure Common Tactical Picture.

More About The P-8I Contract

The contract for eight P-8I between India and the Boeing Company was inked for USD 2.1 billion in 2009. These aircraft are coming through the Foreign Military Sales Route (FMS) and India was the first international customer for this aircraft. The Ministry of Defence (MoD) placed a follow on order for additional four P-8I in 2016. And the DAC has given approval for more P-8I in November last year.

What Is Onboard The P8I For The Indian Navy

These aircraft are equipped with the most modern anti-submarine warfare (ASW) Technology.

These include a Telephonics APS-143. This is not available on the original P-8A Poseidon in use with the USN

The OceanEye Aft Radar System.

Magnetic anomaly detector.

The weapons systems including Harpoon Block-II missiles and MK-54 lightweight torpedoes come with the aircraft India has.

These aircraft are all data-linked with Indian submarines. This makes them capable of passing all critical information about the enemy vessels.

Indian Naval Air Squadron 312A, is the P-8I Squadron, is operating out of naval air station Rajali, based in the South.
In P-8I, the `I’ stands for India and it is the Indian Navy variant of the P-8A Poseidon and is for maritime patrol.

It has the capability to carry around 129 sonobuoys which help in locating the enemy subs and can also be used for launching anti-ship missiles.
China’s Growing Presence In IOR And The South China Sea

Though these aircraft were ordered much before the ongoing standoff between India and China along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in the eastern Ladakh, more P-8I from the US will help in keeping a watch on the growing presence of the Chinese boats in the region.

China has already managed to acquire a string of ports in the region –Myanmar (Kyaukpyu port), Sri Lanka (Hambantota Port), Pakistan (Gwadar port), Iran (Port of Jask).

More About The AGM-84L

The US administration has recently approved the sale of ten AGM-84L Harpoon Block II air-launched missiles. These will help the P-8I to engage and destroy hostile surface warships of choice.

With a solid propellant well tested sea-skimming missile and a range of 67 nautical miles, Indian Navy will be in a position to undertake Airborne maritime surface target engagement tactics more effectively.

Importance of The P-8I Maritime Patrol Aircrafts

According to Milind Kulshreshtha, C4I expert, “These aircraft have been acknowledged as a force multiplier with its in-built inter-operability capabilities and as an advanced airborne platform by Indian Navy. Thus making the P-8I a multi-mission aircraft with C4I ingrained. “
 

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Navy gets its ninth Boeing P-8I surveillance aircraft
Boeing has delivered the ninth P-8I long-range maritime reconnaissance and anti-submarine warfare aircraft to the Indian Navy.


Eight such aircraft were already in service and these are also being deployed for surveillance and intelligence gathering over the Himalayans during the ongoing stand-off with China along the Line of Actual Control in Ladakh.


The patrol aircraft is based on the Boeing 737 platform and have surpassed 25,000 flight hours since it was inducted in 2013. Earlier, these were also used for surveillance during the Chinese incursions at Dokalam in the north-east.


In addition to maritime reconnaissance and anti-submarine warfare capabilities, P-8I have been deployed to assist during disaster relief and humanitarian missions.


“The ninth P-8I is the first aircraft to be delivered under an option contract for four additional aircraft that the Indian Ministry of Defence placed in 2016. The Indian Navy was the first and is the largest international customer for the P-8 and recently completed seven years of operating the fleet,” Boeing said in a statement issued today.

“The P-8I, with its exceptional maritime surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities, versatility and operational readiness, has proven to be an important asset to the Indian Navy. We remain committed to supporting the modernisation and mission readiness of India’s defence forces,” the statement added.


Boeing is also providing training, spares, ground support equipment and field service support to the Indian Navy. It is currently completing construction of the Training Support and Data Handling Centre at INS Rajali in Arakkonam near Chennai, and a secondary centre at the Naval Institute of Aeronautical Technology, Kochi, as part of a training and support package contract signed in 2019.


The indigenous, ground-based training will allow the Indian Navy crew to increase mission proficiency in a shorter time while reducing the on-aircraft training time resulting in increased aircraft availability for mission tasking.
 

FalconSlayers

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Now only ISTAR platforms for the IAF are remaining.
 

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