P-8I maritime patrol aircraft

[IndianHawk]

Why they are charging us exorbitantly, saw this with c17 too. USA has charged very less from australians on c17.i think they are miliking us.

Soko and nz are buying same variant as USA while we buy p8i which removes lot of usa equipment with our own so as to avoid restrictions. Also our deals including weapons maintenance and support while the above report is only for jets that are ordered . Support will be extra.

 

[abhay rajput]

Soko and nz are buying same variant as USA while we buy p8i which removes lot of usa equipment with our own so as to avoid restrictions. Also our deals including weapons maintenance and support while the above report is only for jets that are ordered . Support will be extra.

You may be right on compatibility parts but the difference speaks for itself. Moreover doesn't downgraded version will be cheaper ..? Secondly NZ ones are first orders which means it will cost n more for setting up first squadron. .. this also happens with c17. ,we also sign support deal 2 years ago, including simulators that cost us nearly 2000 crores with maintenance for 10 years which will come up next year

 

[WolfPack86]

India’s Navy to Begin Receiving 4 More P-8I Neptune Maritime Patrol Aircraft in May
The Indian Navy is slated to begin inducting four more Boeing P-8I Neptune advanced maritime patrol/anti-submarine warfare (ASW) aircraft this May, according to Navy sources.

This appears to confirm earlier reports this year that the first of the four aircraft will be delivered in the middle of 2020. “Based on the contract, the first of the four aircraft will be delivered in mid-2020 and the remaining three in 2021” a Boeing Spokesperson was quoted as saying by the Economic Times on February 17.

“These aircraft will also be in the same configuration as the earlier eight aircraft,” the Navy source was quoted as saying by The Hindu on March 18. “Plans are on to install encrypted communication systems on the earlier ones.”


The installation of encrypted communication systems on the U.S.-made aircraft is made possible by the signing of a Communications, Compatibility and Security Agreement (COMCASA) in September 2019.

“COMCASA allows the U.S. military to transfer secure communications and data equipment to India. Prior to the conclusion of the agreement, the United States had to remove advanced communication equipment from all military platforms sold to India such as the P-8I Neptune,” I explained previously. “Additionally, the United States had to place less secure temporary systems on Indian units so the two sides could communicate during bilateral exercises.”

According to the Indian Navy source, the service has already operationalized COMCASA and has exchanged information with the U.S. military. COMCASA reportedly allows P-8I and P-8A Poseidon aircraft, the U.S. Navy variant of the aircraft, to share real-time operational intelligence, including a secure Common Tactical Picture.

The Indian government and Boeing concluded a $2.1 billion contract for the purchase of eight P-8I aircraft in 2009 making India the first international customer of an export variant of the maritime patrol aircraft. The Indian Ministry of Defense (MoD) placed a $1.1. billion follow-on order for four additional P-8Is in 2016. The Indian MoD approved the procurement of 10 more P-8Is in June 2019.

The Indian Navy’s P-8I squadron (Indian Naval Air Squadron 312A) operates out of the Indian naval air station Rajali in southern India.
https://www.defencenews.in/article/...eptune-Maritime-Patrol-Aircraft-in-May-810021

 

[IndianHawk]

You may be right on compatibility parts but the difference speaks for itself. Moreover doesn't downgraded version will be cheaper ..? Secondly NZ ones are first orders which means it will cost n more for setting up first squadron. .. this also happens with c17. ,we also sign support deal 2 years ago, including simulators that cost us nearly 2000 crores with maintenance for 10 years which will come up next year

When you swipe us components for India components it requires engineering effort and optimization and software integration. All of which costs money. Secondly our p8i come with more harpoons and more sonobuoys iirc to hunt both ships and submarine .

 

[fire starter]

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[abhay rajput]

When you swipe us components for India components it requires engineering effort and optimization and software integration. All of which costs money. Secondly our p8i come with more harpoons and more sonobuoys iirc to hunt both ships and submarine .

No it's not , go check our first deal . And see how many harpoon we bought. Moreover in 2016 deal for 4 at 1 billion dollars we didn't bought any harpoon at all. We signed separate deal for 22 harpoon at the cost of 81 million dollars and they were not meant for p8 That's right 1 harpoon cost 3.5 million dollars .

 

[Hydra3]

No it's not , go check our first deal . And see how many harpoon we bought. Moreover in 2016 deal for 4 at 1 billion dollars we didn't bought any harpoon at all. We signed separate deal for 22 harpoon at the cost of 81 million dollars and they were not meant for p8 That's right 1 harpoon cost 3.5 million dollars .

Either we are bad in negotiating with uncle sam or some underground /black project is going on. I feel that we are bad in dealing with USA. We have purchased biliions of goods from them and our defense industry didn't gained much from them.

 

[IndianHawk]

No it's not , go check our first deal . And see how many harpoon we bought. Moreover in 2016 deal for 4 at 1 billion dollars we didn't bought any harpoon at all. We signed separate deal for 22 harpoon at the cost of 81 million dollars and they were not meant for p8 That's right 1 harpoon cost 3.5 million dollars .

I may have been mis informed on the issue. But I found something new that Indian p8i now after comcasa carry almost same comms as the USA p8a and both share information constantly. Yet p8i are far more advanced having latest magnetic anamoly detector and other bunch of stuff. Perhaps I misquote harpoons for tarpedos .

Need to find the original deal to see the differences.

 

[Satchidananda369]

Either we are bad in negotiating with uncle sam or some underground /black project is going on. I feel that we are bad in dealing with USA. We have purchased biliions of goods from them and our defense industry didn't gained much from them.

Yes, many recent defense deals with US Exhorbitantly priced and we over compensated them.

It's the equivalent of paying ransom money to Don Trump to avoid trade sanctions..

 

[IndianHawk]

Yes, many recent defense deals with US Exhorbitantly priced and we over compensated them.

It's the equivalent of paying ransom money to Don Trump to avoid trade sanctions..

That is wrong conclusion. US gear is economically most competitive with timely delivery. We have to look how deals were structured and what is included. US won't be largest defense exporter if it was ripping off counties .

 

[abhay rajput]

That is wrong conclusion. US gear is economically most competitive with timely delivery. We have to look how deals were structured and what is included. US won't be largest defense exporter if it was ripping off counties .

Us equipments is cheaper for NATO countries bottom line. For us they charged a lot . Same happens with Apache helicopter. Yeah they are best but do you know the cost of 1 Apache it's massive. 150 million dollars . .. .

I may have been mis informed on the issue. But I found something new that Indian p8i now after comcasa carry almost same comms as the USA p8a and both share information constantly. Yet p8i are far more advanced having latest magnetic anamoly detector and other bunch of stuff. Perhaps I misquote harpoons for tarpedos .

Need to find the original deal to see the differences.

Just FYI us p8 don't carry mad. Secondly us missiles are cheaper because of mass production yet they are hell lot expensive for us.. And I don't understand why you think comcasa is good idea. Let me tell you with comcasa they can keep tabs/spy on us and the worst part is we will never know that if they did or not. We have simply taken there word for it. Comcasa give us - us satellites communication and encryptions but they can also use that to Spy on us. One more thing us equipments serviceability is good because us contractors stay at India air/naval bases. That's not the case with Rafale or Russian. Try to understand we can't buy overexpensive equipments from West for everything. We have two neighbours to watch . We need both quantity and quality but us equipments comes with a lot of strings attached and are overly expensive for us.. Effectively comprising our sovereignty . Americans now are present at several bases - examples- Tamilnadu, Pathankot, Hindon and at some other places. To contrary we don't have any Russian/french contractors at our base. Yes it's true Russian are present at ship buildi facility in Vishakhapatnam and some other facilities of DRDO but they are not military bases. Americans are hypocrites and we need to be every careful dealing with them . Moreover Don't believe we are that much weak compared to china/Pakistan our two enemies . We are a nuclear power state , and the only reason we haven't done Pakistan much harm. USA with all its military might can't do anything to North Korea. In today's world power means - Nukes . There is a reason why I still regards Russia far above China

 

[IndianHawk]

Yeah they are best but do you know the cost of 1 Apache it's massive. 150 million dollars . .. .

Again apache doesn't cost more than 40 million. You need to read the document of deal to see what actually is being sold. USA deal quotation often carry not just then equipment actually sold but also all the options and add-on prices are included so that for follow on purchase they don't have to go back to us Congress for authorization.

What actually sold and at what price is only found in actual signed contract.

Just FYI us p8 don't carry mad

I said the same thing . Mad if for p8i.

And I don't understand why you think comcasa is good idea. Let me tell you with comcasa they can keep tabs/spy on us and the worst part is we will never know that if they did or not. We have simply taken there word for it.

Yes because all our serving officers in military and all our foreign service and all our mod official and all others are just naive and stupid. Now what we are gonna do ! We are doomed!

US spy capabilities are not what they show in Hollywood movies. Pakistan kept Osama under their nose for years. so much for us spying. Sigh. I'm tired of childish assersion. Perhaps I should leave forumbazi.

More and more new guys keep buying into all kind of conspiracy theories without an ounce of critical thinking . Good luck and good bye.

 

[abhay rajput]

Again apache doesn't cost more than 40 million. You need to read the document of deal to see what actually is being sold. USA deal quotation often carry not just then equipment actually sold but also all the options and add-on prices are included so that for follow on purchase they don't have to go back to us Congress for authorization.

What actually sold and at what price is only found in actual signed contract.


I said the same thing . Mad if for p8i.


Yes because all our serving officers in military and all our foreign service and all our mod official and all others are just naive and stupid. Now what we are gonna do ! We are doomed!

US spy capabilities are not what they show in Hollywood movies. Pakistan kept Osama under their nose for years. so much for us spying. Sigh. I'm tired of childish assersion. Perhaps I should leave forumbazi.

More and more new guys keep buying into all kind of conspiracy theories without an ounce of critical thinking . Good luck and good bye.

If you don't trust me then You can search on Google about comcasa from retired military officials. There's are plenty of articles about it. 40 million dollars , don't be naive , this statement from you I don't even want to debate anymore sir.. you won.

 

[IndianHawk]

If you don't trust me then You can search on Google about comcasa from retired military officials. There's are plenty of articles about it. 40 million dollars , don't be naive , this statement from you I don't even want to debate anymore sir.. you won.

Again apache doesn't cost more than 40 million. You need to read the document of deal to see what actually is being sold. USA deal quotation often carry not just then equipment actually sold but also all the options and add-on prices are included so that for follow on purchase they don't have to go back to us Congress for authorization.

What actually sold and at

Read that again please. Frickin f35 cost 90million.
This is exactly what I said . No critical thinking employed. Just here something and keep on repeating. I haven't won anything I'm just annoyed. I have no problem if this behavior is displayed by porki chinki trolls but I do have better expectations from fellow indians. Time to log out.

 

[WolfPack86]

India cleared to buy two anti-ship munition packages
WASHINGTON — The U.S. State Department has cleared India to buy two packages of sea-based munitions, with a combined $155 million price tag.

Delhi seeks to purchase 10 AGM-84L Harpoon Block II anti-ship missiles, with an estimated price tag of $92 million, as well as 16 MK 54 all up round lightweight torpedoes, worth an estimated $63 million.

The notifications were posted on the website of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency. DSCA notifications are not final sales; once cleared by Congress, the sales enter negotiations, during which quantities and costs can shift.

Both weapons will be fitted onto India’s existing fleet of P-8 maritime surveillance aircraft, “in defense of critical sea lanes while enhancing interoperability with the United States and other allied forces,” according to the DSCA announcement. “India will use the enhanced capability as a deterrent to regional threats and to strengthen its homeland defense.”

The Harpoons are produced by Boeing, while the torpedoes are built by Raytheon. Both deals will require commercial offsets, to be negotiated later in the process.

The potential sales mark the third and fourth packages requested by India and cleared by DSCA in fiscal year 2020. Also requested were a Mk45 naval gun system ($1 billion) and an integrated air defense system ($1.867 billion).

Since the start of FY17, India has been cleared for 10 weapon requests, for an estimated total of $7.85 billion.
https://www.defensenews.com/global/...eared-to-buy-two-anti-ship-munition-packages/

 

[WolfPack86]

India cleared to buy two anti-ship munition packages
WASHINGTON — The U.S. State Department has cleared India to buy two packages of sea-based munitions, with a combined $155 million price tag.

Delhi seeks to purchase 10 AGM-84L Harpoon Block II anti-ship missiles, with an estimated price tag of $92 million, as well as 16 MK 54 all up round lightweight torpedoes, worth an estimated $63 million.

The notifications were posted on the website of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency. DSCA notifications are not final sales; once cleared by Congress, the sales enter negotiations, during which quantities and costs can shift.

Both weapons will be fitted onto India’s existing fleet of P-8 maritime surveillance aircraft, “in defense of critical sea lanes while enhancing interoperability with the United States and other allied forces,” according to the DSCA announcement. “India will use the enhanced capability as a deterrent to regional threats and to strengthen its homeland defense.”

The Harpoons are produced by Boeing, while the torpedoes are built by Raytheon. Both deals will require commercial offsets, to be negotiated later in the process.

The potential sales mark the third and fourth packages requested by India and cleared by DSCA in fiscal year 2020. Also requested were a Mk45 naval gun system ($1 billion) and an integrated air defense system ($1.867 billion).

Since the start of FY17, India has been cleared for 10 weapon requests, for an estimated total of $7.85 billion.
https://www.defensenews.com/global/...eared-to-buy-two-anti-ship-munition-packages/

 

[HariPrasad-1]

India cleared to buy two anti-ship munition packages
WASHINGTON — The U.S. State Department has cleared India to buy two packages of sea-based munitions, with a combined $155 million price tag.

Delhi seeks to purchase 10 AGM-84L Harpoon Block II anti-ship missiles, with an estimated price tag of $92 million, as well as 16 MK 54 all up round lightweight torpedoes, worth an estimated $63 million.

The notifications were posted on the website of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency. DSCA notifications are not final sales; once cleared by Congress, the sales enter negotiations, during which quantities and costs can shift.

Both weapons will be fitted onto India’s existing fleet of P-8 maritime surveillance aircraft, “in defense of critical sea lanes while enhancing interoperability with the United States and other allied forces,” according to the DSCA announcement. “India will use the enhanced capability as a deterrent to regional threats and to strengthen its homeland defense.”

The Harpoons are produced by Boeing, while the torpedoes are built by Raytheon. Both deals will require commercial offsets, to be negotiated later in the process.

The potential sales mark the third and fourth packages requested by India and cleared by DSCA in fiscal year 2020. Also requested were a Mk45 naval gun system ($1 billion) and an integrated air defense system ($1.867 billion).

Since the start of FY17, India has been cleared for 10 weapon requests, for an estimated total of $7.85 billion.
https://www.defensenews.com/global/...eared-to-buy-two-anti-ship-munition-packages/

This plane is very important for Indian Navy as we can watch all activities of Chinese Navy in Indian ocean and keep them under control. The other plane which we required will be Russia Supersonic stealth long range jet by which we can carry Brahmos under its wings. It can give India a very long range strike capability into Indian Ocean and Upto South China Sea. We must have these two planes one for defensive purpose another for offensive capability.

 

[WolfPack86]

Boeing defers delivery of P-8I Neptune Maritime Patrol Aircraft to India
The second batch of 4 Boeing P-8I Neptune advanced maritime patrol/anti-submarine warfare (ASW) aircraft which were supposed to arrive in India by end of this month has been deferred by Boeing due to ongoing issues due to pandemic of China virus in the country. According to Indian defense officials, arrivals of the first plane will happen in July and the other three aircraft in 2021. India already operates 8 P-8I maritime patrol aircraft from its Naval base in Rajali and the second batch of four P-8I maritime patrol aircraft will be based in Naval base in Dabolim on its Western side which more focused on the Arabian sea and movement of Pakistani Navy in the vicinity. Indian MoD decided to procure 6 more P-8I maritime patrol aircraft deal soon with Boeing.
https://idrw.org/boeing-differs-del...aritime-patrol-aircraft-to-india/#more-225262

 

[abhay rajput]

Read that again please. Frickin f35 cost 90million.
This is exactly what I said . No critical thinking employed. Just here something and keep on repeating. I haven't won anything I'm just annoyed. I have no problem if this behavior is displayed by porki chinki trolls but I do have better expectations from fellow indians. Time to log out.

Regarding our last post here is the price of 1 harpoon missile - 9.2 million dollars.

 

[IndianHawk]

Regarding our last post here is the price of 1 harpoon missile - 9.2 million dollars.

Read this from BRF

The Harpoon II costs around $1.4 Million per round (less than 1/2 the cost of the LRASM). Add a 5% FMS surcharge and you'll get a very good indication of what the IN will pay per round. DSCA notifications do not include definitized contract amounts (they are pre-award estimates). As I have shown multiple times now, at times they have been off by as much as 50% when one compares the FMS estimate (a reporting requirement and upper limit) and actual contract award. I'd be surprised if the IN pays anything more than $2 million per round. But then sustainment and upgrades are probably rolled into these as well but it would be quite surprising if the final definitized contract award is anything more than $50 or so million. Better would be to search through MOD documents or Boeing awards for the actual contract amount which usually follows 6-8 months later (after notification) if the activity is pursued.
Top

John
BRF Oldie
Re: Indian Naval Aviation
Post15 Apr 2020 06:32

Yes but even at 50% it will be quite more than mil per missile anyway we won’t know. We paid quite a lot for MM40 as well which were supposed to be cheaper than harpoon.
Top

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Re: Indian Naval Aviation
Post15 Apr 2020 06:46

The 50% data is just from a small sampling I did a while back. Also FMS deals often add sustainment to their estimates as well so you could well have other costs like the EC enhancements over time added to the estimate (which may or may not be included in the final negotiated contract). Individual missile unit cost is unlikely to be more than 10-15% of what the USN pays for something brand new (though the USN does not buy new Harpoon II's). DSCA loves to add a whole host of contractor and USG services that may or may not be a part of any eventual deal.

What is said before . This quotation is to gain approval from us Congress. So they maximise it to the tilt so they don't have to seek permission again in case buyer wants full package .

If USA weaponry was so costly USA won't be the biggest defense exporter on the planet.