No progress if India restricts the dialogue to a "narrow agenda" of terrorism:Pak

[1.44]

‘No use if India sticks to only terror talks’
​

Pakistan Tuesday said it wants all bilateral issues, including Kashmir, to be discussed at the Foreign Secretary-level talks on Thursday and feels much progress would not be made if India restricts the dialogue to a "narrow agenda" of terrorism.

Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi, who is here on an official visit, hoped that the Composite Dialogue process between the two countries would be resumed in the near future.

"It (Indo-Pak Foreign Secretaries meeting) is going to be an exploratory meeting... Pakistan government is seriously working to improve relations with India. We seek peaceful settlement of all outstanding disputes, including the core issue of Jammu and Kashmir with India," Qureshi said.

He was speaking to the media after delivering a lecture on 'Pakistan's Challenges and our Response' at the China Institute of International Studies, a think-tank, here.

"After 14 month they (India) have reengaged with us and invited us for a dialogue. We want a dialogue but we want a meaningful dialogue.

"We want all issues that are of concern of both sides brought on to the table to that dialogue is serious meaningful and result oriented. We have to see what comes out of the 25th meeting," he said.

"If India restricts the agenda or tries to narrow it down to its own immediate needs then much progress will not be reached," he said, apparently referring to comments by some Indian officials that terrorism would dominate the talks.

Foreign Secretaries of India and Pakistan will meet in New on February 25.

Qureshi said India had agreed through a joint communique that acts of terrorism would not impede the process of dialogue before suspending the talks after the "unfortunate incidents" of terror in.

"We hope that the composite dialogue process would be resumed in the near future. Pakistan has recognised the significance and the progress made through the four rounds of Composite dialogue."

When an Indian journalist pointed out that Pakistan has not done much to contain India specific terror groups, Qureshi said Islamabad has taken prominent steps in that direction.

"For the sake of discussion let us agree that we have not done enough does that qualify for suspending dialogue and does that invite greater understanding and cooperation.

"Should we shut our minds and look other directions realising that there is common challenge we are facing?" he asked.

The two countries should display more cooperation by holding talks to understand each others concerns "instead of policy followed by India in suspending talks".

"I think that there was a realisation in India that (suspension of talks) was a negative and kneejerk reaction and I am glad you are rethinking on that. So as far being effected by terrorism is concerned, does India realise the challenge Pakistan is facing?" the Foreign Minister asked.

Qureshi said Prime Ministers of India and Pakistan during their meeting at Sharm-el-Sheikh in July last year had agreed that dialogue is the only way forward.

"If we have the same the spirit, the spirit with which Pakistan is displaying, the constructive approach thorough which we are approaching the dialogue, obviously the progress will be made and we will take the next step for resumption of the composite dialogue," he said.

"Can you understand the human loss that we had. Can you calculate the very obvious hidden economic costs Pakistan has paid on account of terrorism.

"We are victims as much as perhaps more than India is (of terrorism). Instead of accusing each other let us sit together and find out to collectively defeat the forces that are trying to undermining the peace and stability of the region," Qureshi said.

http://www.zeenews.com/news606382.html#

 

[Yusuf]

Not bothering to read the article as the title was enough. What they call narrow is a bloody big problem for india and they bloody well talk about it.

 

[GokuInd]

Not bothering to read the article as the title was enough. What they call narrow is a bloody big problem for india and they bloody well talk about it.

Not only for us it seems:

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...rty-thousand-pakistanis-dead-since-2003-zj-08

SLAMABAD: According to figures made available to DawnNews by senior Pakistani military officials, at least 30 thousand Pakistanis have lost their lives or were injured since 2003.

More Pakistanis have lost their life in the ongoing war against terror compared to two full scale wars against India in 1965 and 1971.

The casualties include death or injures to at least 22 thousand civilians and policemen in various acts of terror or suicide bombings.

Pakistan’s military, which launched operations against the militants in the tribal areas, suffered at least 8 thousand casualties, including at least 23 hundred officers and soldiers who lost their lives.

Senior military officials say at least six thousand soldiers and officers have been injured in the war against terror since 2003.

Military officials say the number of casualties suffered by Pakistan is manifolds as compared to those suffered by the US and other international forces in Afghanistan.

 

[johnee]

22000 civilians and policemen died?!!(sic) And those are official figures! What would be the original figure? The PA is killing its own people for its stupid wet dreams regarding India.

 

[gogbot]

whats the point , these talks were just to appease the Americans.

 

[Soham]

^^^

Very right. We'll keep jumping over terrorism, and they on Kashmir. Militarily outmatched, terrorism is the only way they can bleed India.
Btw, I read in the newspapers that the Indian team comprises of a face-reader.

 

[ajtr]

^^^

Very right. We'll keep jumping over terrorism, and they on Kashmir. Militarily outmatched, terrorism is the only way they can bleed India.

Do you mean to say that we must keep talking without even mentioning terrorism they perpetrate on indian soil and keep on taking blows from them.Its becomes same thing like in mahabharata story where village people keep on sending one person daily to demon until bheem comes and save them by killing demon.BTW india is too big to get bled by pak.the only thing is that india has to start paying them on same coin and then see the positive results.Strength respects strength.We can talk to anyone in in this world but except pak.coz they never understand the language of peace and talks only language they understand is that of gun.

Btw, I read in the newspapers that the Indian team comprises of a face-reader.

I think u have read wrong news.its not the indian team which included face-reader but its the pak team which has face reader Afrasiab Hashmi. right news article is following.

Pakistan delegation has a face reader to help

ISLAMABAD: When Pakistani negotiators start their dialogue with the Indians in New Delhi on Wednesday, they will be informally helped by one of their team members who can read the faces of people and predict what they are actually thinking and feeling — an art known as physiognomy.

Director-General for South Asia, Afrasiab Hashmi, may turn out to be a treasured guide for the country’s delegation by reading the faces of the Indian negotiators.Few people know about the God-gifted quality of Hashmi. He is an expert in judging a person’s character or personality from that mans facial characteristics and structure. Physiognomy and its practice dates back to the ancient Greece but was abandoned later.

Hashmi is said to have harboured this skill by birth, not learning through any special courses. It becomes very difficult to hide one’s inner-self in front of Hashmi, people close to him say, though he gives his frank opinions only to frank friends.

The Foreign Office spokesperson confirmed Hashmi’s mastery in face reading but said he was unaware of its utility at the official level.Hashmi, an officer of 12th Common, has previously served as Pakistan’s deputy high commissioner in India, China, Austria and the United Nations in New York. His initial posting after joining the foreign service was in the United Nations where his accurate predictions caught many by surprise.

He also has some skills in predicting the immediate future. The story goes a senior Pakistani diplomat was briefing his junior colleagues on August 16, 1988 about the upcoming visit of the then-president Gen Ziaul Haq to the UN General Assembly. He won’t come, a budding diplomat seated on the backbenches shouted. How do you say so?, his boss inquired worryingly, prompting him to shout the same line again. He then ran outside the room.

Hashmi was nervous, tired and terrified. As he was consoled and when asked he refused to open his lips till Zia’s plane crash made rounds of the whole world the next day.Well before Hashmi had joined the foreign service, Gen Zia knew about his skills and is believed to have sent him a huge portrait of himself out of curiosity to know what’s up for him in the future. Hashmi was then a student of the Government College Lahore.

It couldn’t be known what Hashmi had forecast about Zia at that time. One of his staffers, who served with him in India, shared how a top Indian Army officer was running after Hashmi as he came to know about his skills. These were the early days of Hashmi in India. When he was invited to a reception, also attended by a former army chief, Hashmi shook hands with the uniformed officer and turned to his wife to say hi. As he saw the general’s wife, he pointed out that she was suffering from Migraine. Hashmi said her face was unusual and extraordinary. He had also told her the pain was due to her habit of excessive reading, which surprised her husband who dashed to his residence the next day for further information about his own home affairs.

 

[ajtr]

These talks are just mirror image of musharraf's agra grandiose with media.Even he was in air with all american backing as non-nato ally in war against terror and he was new in power too so we have seen such thing from pakistani diplomats again and again to go hyper-vent in front of cameras. but then they immediately soft even mush went soft after operation parakram.we have seen youtube clips of zulfikar ali bhutto tearing papers in UNSC summit on 5/6th of dec 1971 but then same Bhutto became soft with in 2 weeks and came for negotiation in shimla.we have also seen youtube clips of Niazi of claiming to fight till last man and last bullet on 14th/15th of dec. 1971 in front of the BBC cameras in decca but then same niazi became soft and signesd surrender papers on 16th of dec 1971.we have also seen the Ayub khan's bluster of riding the patton tank to dehli but after 3 weeks same ayub khan offered unilateral cease fire in sept 1965.we have seen all lies and blusters from nawaz sharief and Mush combined during kargil but then atlast they pulled out offering ceasefire. So right now Bashir is hyperventing coz they have recently found obama's hand at there back. just wait for sometime we wil see same bashir crawling on his knees.its no new experience for us we have been seen this since long.

Analysis: Pakistan grandstanding spells a diplomatic disaster

At the end of it, the much talked-about India-Pakistan talks turned out to be the case of the glass being half full.

The talks that began at 11 am on Thursday went on for some three hours and even spilling over on to lunch. Things seemed to go well and an impression was forming that after a hiatus of over a year, the India-Pakistan dialogue was taking off.


But then came the bolt from the blue -- the classic reality check. Pakistan Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir, in his press conference, tore asunder the "feel-good" atmosphere.


He dealt a series of lethal blows with a belligerence that is rarely seen in conventional diplomacy.


One of the major reasons behind Bashir's raised pitch seems to be the inclusion of two serving Pakistan Army [ Images ] officers -- Major Iqbal and Major Samir Ali -- in one of three dossiers that India handed over to Pakistan. India wants to prosecute them for their involvement in Mumbai [ Images ] attacks. New Delhi [ Images ] also asked Islamabad [ Images ] to hand over 33 other terrorists.

Now, it is quite clear that the real 'talk' that Pakistan wanted to do with India was done by Bashir in his press conference at the Pakistan Embassy.

In the full media glare, Bashir told India "do not lecture to us". He ticked off the Indian Army [ Images ] chief. He repeatedly seemed to single out Prime Minister Manmohan Singh [ Images ] as the only man with a 'vision' in the Indian government.

He also said that Pakistan was not desperate for talks. He harped on Kashmir [ Images ] being the "core issue". He pressed the demand for concluding "doable" things like an agreement on Siachen and Sir Creek. He demanded that India prune its defence purchases and curb its missile development.


In his outburst, he did not make one conciliatory gesture to India's persistent demand to tackle the terrorist infrastructure based on Pakistani soil.


No matter what he said or didn't say, the main thing was his tone and his 'body language'. He spoke as if he was programmed before he left Islamabad and the talks, as such, were a sideshow.


The Indian side has agreed that they were a "bit surprised" by Pakistan foreign secretary's press conference.

However, an experienced retired diplomat who has served in Pakistan told rediff.com that the biggest mistake Indian side did was that when New Delhi knew Pakistani bureaucrats and politicians so well why were the post- talk's events were kept open-ended?

India has not learnt its lessons from Agra [ Images ] where President Pervez Musharraf [ Images ] took maximum advantage of the media attention.

If a joint press conference would have been arranged with a controlled crowd and limited questions, Bashir would not have got such a free hand to carry on for 90 minutes on what all Pakistan wants from India.

Many Pakistan experts are trying to assess why Bashir almost blasted India's idea of arresting and punishing Jamaat-ud-Dawah chief Hafiz Saeed [ Images ]. Was Pakistan's aggressive stance in the press conference pre-planned or was it triggered by India's insistence on the issue of terrorism for 85 per cent of the time of talks?

A top-ranking Indian officer said Bashir was expected to say few harsh things for the crowd in his country, but they never expected that a bureaucrat will speak in the language of politician.

He said, "(Indian Foreign Secretary) Nirupama Rao [ Images ] is not trained like that. She could not have matched Bashir's performance. She never had that mandate."

Another officer, well versed with such talks, said: "Our (Indian) style is different. We talk differently."

Three major reasons have been cited for Pakistan's hard talk in New Delhi. One, Pakistan knows that United States and Britain are on their side while India is looking alienated in Afghanistan. Pakistan is on a strong wicket in the geo-political realities. So Pakistan is bullish about its position and their agenda in the region.

Second, during the talks, Pakistan saw that India was refusing to move forward on the issue of composite dialogue and rather, had its way in dominating the dialogue by talking about terrorism and little else.

Lastly, Bashir surely was reflecting the domestic power tussle in Pakistan between civilian forces and the military.

Another reason that might have added to Pakistan's rough stance is the three dossiers that were given to Bashir's team.

A senior ambassador, who writes frequently on Pakistan, says: " It is possible that the leaks given to the media about the three dossiers were a well-calculated move to malign Pakistan by a section in government who, in the first place, never supported the talks."

The dossier even quotes a serving Pakistan army officer, though without his real name. This official inclusion is surely touching the raw nerve of the military establishment.

How sad that Bashir thought his one-upmanship over his Indian counterpart won him the day. But it may turn out to be a Pyrrhic victory.

In fact, Bashir's hard talk turned into a failure for all those on both sides of the Wagah border, who were holding their breath with cautious expectation that there could be stirrings of change in the air.

India invited Pakistan for talks; it must be regretting for doing so. India became the gracious host, but the guest remained belligerent.

Till Bashir tore into Indian policies at around 5.40 pm, it did seem as if a lot had been achieved and the prophets of doom were way off the mark in their prognosis.

Restrained, gracious and focused, Rao avoided the minefield and handled her press conference in a constructive spirit.

When the Indian and Pakistan delegations, in all some 25 bureaucrats from both sides, talked over the oval shaped table at Hyderabad House in New Delhi negative vibes were absent, the Indian side said after the meeting.

The atmosphere was relaxed and cordial, and even the rhetoric remained under control.

Pakistan spoke about Kashmir and the water issue to which India responded with the well-known national position. When Pakistan raised the issue of Baluchistan, India said it was baseless. India does not have any desire to destabilise Pakistan.

One thought till the Pakistani foreign secretary spoke out that the baby step taken by India had opened the window for further progress. The Indian side had a tough task to handle the talks because the Opposition parties were against it and many critics had voiced their concerns over inviting Pakistan without New Delhi having enough manoeuvring space in the geo-politics of the region in view of Pakistan graduating as a key ally in the US's regional strategy in Afghanistan and Central Asia.

There was a disconnect within India as well between the government and people who were not ready for sudden U-turn in India's policy with Pakistan. This disconnect will haunt the government after Bashir's "do not lecture us" statement.

Bashir's statements could have been taken into their stride or could have been underplayed, but the wounds of the Mumbai attacks are still sore. It is more appalling to see that after getting a "surprise" in the form of a press conference, a source in Indian government told the media that while Rao had got her brief for the talks from a democratic government, her Pakistani counterpart had got the same from "GHQ (General Headquarters of Army) and men in khaki.'

If the 'point scoring' by Pakistan was wrong then the counter-scoring by India was meaningless. Even before the talks, one knew who calls the shots in Islamabad and who briefs whom in Pakistan.

The big question is how the US will take stock of Thursday's diplomatic debris. After all, senior US officials have been repeatedly harping on the great importance of the talks. By now, it is clear that it takes two to tango.

 

[ajtr]

Someone from india has to really tell pak that the so called 1000 of mumbai type attacks happening in pakistan is done by their own people who were reared by their own army and are still supported by same army.but in india's case its their people who are coming to india with their army/govt./people support and attacking india.which is an act of war.secondly pakistan is not victim of terror as it projects itself.it is the perpetrator of terror on itself on india on uk usa and everyone around the world.coz every terror attack all over the world is linked back or has connections in pakistan.

India focus on Mumbai 'unfair': Salman Bashir

NEW DELHI: Pakistan Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir said Thursday that India's focus on the 2008 Mumbai attacks was “unfair” and was stalling efforts to get bilateral relations back on track.

“It is unfair and unrealistic and, in our view, counterproductive to...keep the focus on that (Mumbai) to stall the process of the broader relationship between the two countries,” Bashir said after talks in New Delhi with his Indian counterpart Nirupama Rao.

Urging India to move forward and resume full-fledged peace talks, Bashir warned that neither country could afford to remain disengaged.

“This is a nuclearised region. It is important that India and Pakistan engage on a whole range of issues,” he said.

He added, in an apparent reference to India's focus on Pakistan-based militancy during the talks, that “Pakistan does not believe that India should lecture us and demand Pakistan does this or that.”

He added: “That is not how interstate relations are conducted.”

Earlier, Rao had said the time was not yet ripe to revive the comprehensive dialogue, citing a continuing “trust deficit” following the Mumbai carnage.

“We are not desperate,” Bashir stressed. “If India takes more time to reflect on the modalities of engagement, they will find us ready,” he said.

Bashir also insisted that dealing with terrorism was his government's “number one priority” and argued that Pakistan was only too aware of the trauma and violence inflicted by terror attacks.

“We have suffered many, many hundreds of Mumbais. We have lost a great number of civilians,” he said.

“For anyone to think that Pakistan would be dismissive of this problem, he does not have his facts right,” he said.

During the talks with Rao, Bashir said he had stressed “the great importance” Pakistan attached to finding a peaceful solution to the issue of Muslim-majority Kashmir.

“From our side, we certainly don't discount the achievements made by the Composite Dialogue... but the time is not right as yet to resume it because we have to create a climate of trust and confidence,” Rao had said.

“We have agreed to remain in touch,” she added.

“I spelt out forthrightly our concerns on terrorism emanating from Pakistan against India. I told my Pakistani counterpart that terrorism cannot advance any cause but the cause of senseless violence,” she said.

During the talks, the Indian side handed the Pakistanis three dossiers on anti-India militants, including one that contained intelligence related to the Mumbai attacks.

 

[dineshchaturvedi]

Well that is what it is, if you openly support terrorist and their activities against India. Look at his guts, he says we are supporting terrorist in Baluchistan and till date they have not provided any proof.
It is only possible when
1) NATO/US supports India in this
2) India is over smart to fool 40 country force in Afghanistan

Only a Pakistani can believe it.

To top it up he said we are nuclear neighbor so we should sort issue by talks, wonder why only Pakistani's have to hide behind nuclear bomb and even after close to a decade they do not understand that world will fall for their bluff's.

Neither they will be able to move an inch on Kashmir with the help of terrorist.

 

[Soham]

They proved that the packaging of IEDs found in Waziristan is done with polypropylene from Reliance.
See the desperation.

 

[johnee]

This bashir(and for that matter every politician) is simply impotent as far as decision making is concerned. PA decides everything including the postures that their politicians will take regarding India. India wastes its time taking to these clowns then they relish in adding insult to injury. When Mr.Bashir says such things, imagine how Salaskar's wife would feel? How would Jass's family feel? How would Sandeep Unnikrishnan's family feel?

If India has to talk to appease the US, then let India talk to other groups like PA, Sindh, Balochis, Pashtuns, TTP and everyone else but not to their politicians. We dont need to strengthen their democracy, their democracy is a sham anyway which cannot be strengthened by anyone. Talking to other groups atleast opens up some possiblities for us. For instance, there seems to be a water conflict between Sindh and Pakjab. By talking to Sindhis, we could exploit the faultlines. By talking to Balochis, we could exploit faultlines. Also, when the Paks accuse us of meddling in Balochistan then we can politely suggest them that we could mediate between Balochis and Pakjabis. What we need is a more aggressive diplomacy, not this passive one which only undermines India by projecting us as a soft nation. Those terrorist pigs are jumping up and down against India openly by taking big rallies, why cannot India do covet Ops against them? Kill some of these big pigs and we will watch how those rest will cower in fear.

 

[nitesh]

Now I understood why this much of hulla hungama before the talk basically they got egg on the face and above that 2 PA officers are named

 

[johnee]

^^^Nitesh, if our agenda was to name the PA officers, why do we need to talk for that? We could have named them at a neutral forum, used our own media or just realeased the info through press. Why should we submit it to paks only?

 

[johnee]

They proved that the packaging of IEDs found in Waziristan is done with polypropylene from Reliance.
See the desperation.

Soham, the audience for the Paks is their own population. Perhaps they felt that if they use words like 'reliance','polypropylene', and 'India' to build a CT, it would be enough to convince their domestic gullible audience. And they have been proved right,avg paks have lapped up the story.

 

[ajtr]

Soham, the audience for the Paks is their own population. Perhaps they felt that if they use words like 'reliance','polypropylene', and 'India' to build a CT, it would be enough to convince their domestic gullible audience. And they have been proved right,avg paks have lapped up the story.

And the see indians everywhere even in british consulate in abu dhabi where indians are stealing only pakistani passport. And Mr. bashir has photographic evidence of uncircumcised hindu taliban fighting in FATA ....lol

BTW pakistan monthly imports 1000 of tons of polypropylene from Reliance.i think they also found made in india medicine like dabur/hamdard/anacin and fair and lovely also some bollywood movie dvd.talk of bollywood movie there are RAW agents in every pakistani home in pakistan and also abroad coz u can finds loads of indian made stuff even in kiyani's house.oops Pak army has been compromised by RAW.....lol

 

[F-14]

the Hight of all Hipocresy here there was an article that said that people in the FATA and waziristan area's do not circumcise due to Tow main facts

1) the Lack of barbers
2) the Lack of any such tradition in the aforementioned areas

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/05/11/from_the_eyes_of_pakistanis_96438.html

 

[johnee]

And the see indians everywhere even in british consulate in abu dhabi where indians are stealing only pakistani passport. And Mr. bashir has photographic evidence of uncircumcised hindu taliban fighting in FATA ....lol

BTW pakistan monthly imports 1000 of tons of polypropylene from Reliance.i think they also found made in india medicine like dabur/hamdard/anacin and fair and lovely also some bollywood movie dvd.talk of bollywood movie there are RAW agents in every pakistani home in pakistan and also abroad coz u can finds loads of indian made stuff even in kiyani's house.oops Pak army has been compromised by RAW.....lol

Osama bin laden, Obama, Kiyani, Zardari and Nawaz Shariff are all RAW agents. All the mullahs of Pakistan are RAW agents. Hafiz Sayeed is a RAW agent. MMS and Sonia Gandhi are RAW agents. RAW literally controls and runs the world. Infact, even Bashir is a RAW agent, he was instructed to keep bringing up the Balochistan issue so that India can officially raise it at every international forum to gather support for secession of Balochis from Balochistan.

Now, you may ask how I know all this. I know it because I am the serving chief of RAW. That means I control the world!!>>>>>>

 

[nitesh]

^^^Nitesh, if our agenda was to name the PA officers, why do we need to talk for that? We could have named them at a neutral forum, used our own media or just realeased the info through press. Why should we submit it to paks only?

You have valid point but I think this is the main reason behind all the tamasha

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...crack-down-on-Taliban/articleshow/5620013.cms

Revelations by Pakistani-American David Headley, an LeT operative charged with conspiring in the Mumbai attacks, may have prompted Islamabad to finally go after the Afghan-Taliban, a noted US scholar on South Asia has said.

The significant term seems to be PA to me

 

[p2prada]

Really. If terrorism is a narrow agenda, then Pakistan should not complain about the losses they received during the WoT campaign in their own country.