Nirbhay Cruise Missile Development

[Ajax01]

Yeas, EM waves travels at the speed of light, and Brahmos travells at three times the speed of sound, Do you have any doubt on it?
That means the earlier they detect Brahmos launch the higher will be the chances for getting jammed.
If brahmos wants to make use horizon limitation then it needs to fly in sea skimming mode, in such conditions due to high density of air brahms's range will be limited to 120kms. In that case your ship itself is getting vulnerable to enemy fire.
Brahmos will get firing solution from the ship before it gets airborne, i dont know whether there is a data link exists between the mothership & flying brahmos.
I really didn't get what you are saying in the last two sentences.

No I don't. It gives no extra advantages to EM waves just because they travel at light speed like you imply.
Obviously but they won't be able to, not beyond the radar horizon.
Source for your claim of 120 km? We dont know at what altitude profile the 450km of brahmos is claimed.
It uses data from sats(G3OM) as updates and ships as well
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/with-brahmos-missile-air-force-can-hit-enemy-ship-in-minutes-1778799
They could fly high then get low to hide behind the radar horizon as well.
It will need the missile to be quite close as its a smaller target for the radar to detect it from the clutter as well.
Read about burn through range at which jamming is rendered ineffective, it depends on ship RCS, Effective radiated power of jammer and radar among other things (like J/S ratio). You are saying ERP of jammer is greater on a ship , well a ship's RCS is about 50 times a cargo aircraft at the lower side. Any advantage is negated. Besides Brahmos has ECCM that has to be factored in etc. Besides ERP of ship jammer for Brahmos will be quite less as it travels so fast its seeker is exposed to less EM energy.

 

[Chinmoy]

Nirbhay 6th test launch captured in a top down mode from Jag showing sea skirming ability and ending up with an EO view of target hit.

 

[Hydra3]

No I don't. It gives no extra advantages to EM waves just because they travel at light speed like you imply.
Obviously but they won't be able to, not beyond the radar horizon.
Source for your claim of 120 km? We dont know at what altitude profile the 450km of brahmos is claimed.
It uses data from sats(G3OM) as updates and ships as well
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/with-brahmos-missile-air-force-can-hit-enemy-ship-in-minutes-1778799
They could fly high then get low to hide behind the radar horizon as well.
It will need the missile to be quite close as its a smaller target for the radar to detect it from the clutter as well.
Read about burn through range at which jamming is rendered ineffective, it depends on ship RCS, Effective radiated power of jammer and radar among other things (like J/S ratio). You are saying ERP of jammer is greater on a ship , well a ship's RCS is about 50 times a cargo aircraft at the lower side. Any advantage is negated. Besides Brahmos has ECCM that has to be factored in etc. Besides ERP of ship jammer for Brahmos will be quite less as it travels so fast its seeker is exposed to less EM energy.

So u think that EM waves will not travel atbthe speed of light? Pity. Pathetic knowledge.
Regarding 120km range for sea skimming mode, go and search in google, tonnes of discussions has happened.
And yeas, ship is having greater RCS, that monstrous RCS will allow early detection for a search radar, not for a fire control radar or missile seeker. Yeas, its relatively easy for a ship with decent ECM can divert a brahmos. No doubt on that. And PN is modernising its fleet with brand new frigates and its really a threat.

 

[Craigs]

And yeas, ship is having greater RCS, that monstrous RCS will allow early detection for a search radar, not for a fire control radar or missile seeker.

Why?.........................

Yeas, its relatively easy for a ship with decent ECM can divert a brahmos. No doubt on that.

Really........................... How?.............................

 

[abhay rajput]

So u think that EM waves will not travel atbthe speed of light? Pity. Pathetic knowledge.
Regarding 120km range for sea skimming mode, go and search in google, tonnes of discussions has happened.
And yeas, ship is having greater RCS, that monstrous RCS will allow early detection for a search radar, not for a fire control radar or missile seeker. Yeas, its relatively easy for a ship with decent ECM can divert a brahmos. No doubt on that. And PN is modernising its fleet with brand new frigates and its really a threat.

No they can't .. ship is not aircraft. There are many ways to counter ECM. Things which might work on aircraft , will not work on ships. You have no idea how much accurate brahmos is.. !

 

[Ajax01]

So u think that EM waves will not travel atbthe speed of light? Pity. Pathetic knowledge.
Regarding 120km range for sea skimming mode, go and search in google, tonnes of discussions has happened.
And yeas, ship is having greater RCS, that monstrous RCS will allow early detection for a search radar, not for a fire control radar or missile seeker. Yeas, its relatively easy for a ship with decent ECM can divert a brahmos. No doubt on that. And PN is modernising its fleet with brand new frigates and its really a threat.

When will you try and read what I said. I said EM waves do travel at light speed, but it dosn't give any extra advantages to jammers just because it does. You need reading lessons.
Which official source can you quote or that of any reliable media that has said so I don't give a damn about the ramblings of some random guy.
Why pray? Why will the active radar seeker's job be easier if the jammers have to hide a huge target?
What about picking up the small signature of a missile in sea skimming mode from background clutter and ECCM?
Because you said so? Which ones are decent ship based jammers in your opinion?
Hilarious
You need to read up more. Even the wiki article on jamming is a good place to start.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

Man, brahmos speed is around 1 kilometres per minutes, where the electro magnetic waves which used to jam is travelling at the speed of around 3 lakh kilometers per second. So they have enough times to react if they detected the launch, and if thr EW capable they can vey well jam the missile ease. But if we managed to launch brahmos undetected( presently PN lacks long range sensor suit i guess, so we are in advantage ) then we can make a sure shot.

Hahaha...my car itself can go faster than 1km per minute. Wth you smoking man?
Why you trolling?

 

[Hydra3]

Why?.........................

Really........................... How?.............................

Why: because it uses a narrow beam radio signals to lock on it, and i dont think that a missile seeker is that much powerful too.
And how: how a aircraft will jam a radar guided missile? By either jamming or evasive manner or a combination of both. In a ship's case maneuverability is effectively nil but it can use a very powerful & sophisticated jamming techniques. Why it is possible on ship, simple it have tremendous electrical power & spacious enough to accommodate enough jammers with size. A shipborne janmer can even jamm a fighter aircraft's aesa, jamming a missile seeker is mere a child's play for a frigate or similar ships.

 

[Snowcat]

Hahaha...my car itself can go faster than 1km per minute. Wth you smoking man?
Why you trolling?

No point in arguing with that retard. He is just here annoy us, that's all. Proper D bag.

 

[Hydra3]

No they can't .. ship is not aircraft. There are many ways to counter ECM. Things which might work on aircraft , will not work on ships. You have no idea how much accurate brahmos is.. !

Who is doubting brahmos on its accuracy? I dont doubt our brahmos on that regard.
Yeah ship is not an aircraft, ship can do jamming signals /radars more effectively.

 

[Hydra3]

Hahaha...my car itself can go faster than 1km per minute. Wth you smoking man?
Why you trolling?

Oops, my mistake. I was intended to rigt 1km/sec. Thank you for the correction.

 

[angeldude13]

Oops, my mistake. I was intended to rigt 1km/sec. Thank you for the correction.

@Indx TechStyle Please remove this guys verbal diarrhea. He is all over the place with his pseudo science making tall claims without any source.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

So, the issue is that @Hydra3 believes that a missile can never carry a seeker more better than a radar mounted on ship (no reason I find though).

A shipborne janmer can even jamm a fighter aircraft's aesa, jamming a missile seeker is mere a child's play for a frigate or similar ships.

As not all of them are same. Probably only most advanced ones.

Encounter wouldn't only involve just transition time of EM waves but kind of frequencies, stealth measures of missile including surface engineering and ships radars abilities as well, missiles have a higher success rate than missile defences.

Missiles are smaller, sleeker, faster and more maneuverable target than planes with not equally as much requirement of communications as a plane or ship. I had a similar debate with @Chinmoy on similar topic once without any conclusion.


Discussion can be carried on without name calling and tagging more knwoledgeable people.
@sayareakd @porky_kicker

 

[Karthi]

Most of the ASM has ECCM features there are.more than 25 different ECCM techniques for Missile .

Frequency Agility , Linear FM Pulse Compression , Leading Edge Track , Home-On-Jam are some of the techniques .

In case of Brahmos , Brahmos can achieve 5 M CE P simply using its onboard processors and GPS, Glonass , Navic data , even don't need a seeker . Tge ECCM features on Brahmos is unknown to me but certainly has some of the features .

Jamming is not much Easy against Brahmos , and the seeker is only activated in the terminal stages .

 

[porky_kicker]

Most of the ASM has ECCM features there are.more than 25 different ECCM techniques for Missile .

Frequency Agility , Linear FM Pulse Compression , Leading Edge Track , Home-On-Jam are some of the techniques .

In case of Brahmos , Brahmos can achieve 5 M CE P simply using its onboard processors and GPS, Glonass , Navic data , even don't need a seeker . Tge ECCM features on Brahmos is unknown to me but certainly has some of the features .

Jamming is not much Easy against Brahmos , and the seeker is only activated in the terminal stages .

Plus as part of its ECM/ECCM brahmos has the ability to project electronic clones of itself inorder to seduce the incoming interceptor missiles and make it splash harmlessly into the sea.

 

[Craigs]

Why: because it uses a narrow beam radio signals to lock on it, and i dont think that a missile seeker is that much powerful too.
And how: how a aircraft will jam a radar guided missile? By either jamming or evasive manner or a combination of both. In a ship's case maneuverability is effectively nil but it can use a very powerful & sophisticated jamming techniques. Why it is possible on ship, simple it have tremendous electrical power & spacious enough to accommodate enough jammers with size. A shipborne janmer can even jamm a fighter aircraft's aesa, jamming a missile seeker is mere a child's play for a frigate or similar ships.

Are there any side effects to using powerful jammers? Or it is all good?


Have you heard of HOJ mode?

 

[Craigs]

Plus as part of its ECM/ECCM brahmos has the ability to project electronic clones of itself inorder to seduce the incoming interceptor missiles and make it splash harmlessly into the sea.

Another thing to note is that interceptor missiles either depend on active homing sensor or on command guidance. Both of which can get affected by the "high powered jammers" themselves.

 

[Chinmoy]

So, the issue is that @Hydra3 believes that a missile can never carry a seeker more better than a radar mounted on ship (no reason I find though).


I had a similar debate with @Chinmoy on similar topic once without any conclusion.

When??


30 characters

 

[Indx TechStyle]

When??


30 characters

Israeli anti-stealth radar. Frequency vs range. Remember that?

 

[Chinmoy]

Israeli anti-stealth radar. Frequency vs range. Remember that?

Yeah... Frequency vs Wavelength to be precise.