NIA books Italian marines for Kerela fishermen's murder
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Re: Italy Won't Send Accused Marines Back to India
Fool India twice: How the Italians pulled an old French trick
The polli have flown the coop. Italian stallions have fled the barn. Alas, alack, bwah-ha-ha! We are left beating chests variously in rage and despair at this loss of national face. The Italian provenance of this disgrace has spawned conspiracy theories galore, but the truth is that our government is no less foolish when it comes to Europeans of all stripes.
The Times of India reminds us that the latest showcase of cupidity is just a remake of an old French tale:
In 1996, the crew of a French yacht, Galathee, anchored off Kochi coast, was accused of ocean survey espionage and a case was registered against them in Kerala. The Frenchmen aboard the yacht were taken into custody by Kerala Police and the case was given to the CBI. The agency then filed a chargesheet against Francois Clavel, Elle Philippe, a Goan named Furtado. At the behest of the French government, the Union government allowed Francois Clavel of Paris and Elle Philippe of Madagascar to visit their home during their trial. The French government had assured the government on 6 January 1998, that the two would return.
No prizes for guessing what happened next. The two remain AWOL 15 years later, untraceable by the famed Interpol.Well, it is somewhat ancient history. Perhaps our dear government just plain forgot about that bit of Gallic duplicity. Except not. Director of Prosecutions T Asaf Ali raised that unpleasant memory while opposing the Italian vacation. "We knew this would happen and this is why the Kerala government opposed their return," says Ali. "The assurance given by the Italian ambassador was useless. France, too, had given a similar guarantee. Italians have been reiterating that India doesn't have jurisdictional powers to try their marines. This in itself was sufficient to surmise that they would stay back at some point of time."
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice.
From the moment of their arrest, the Italian government has worked overtime on behalf of Massimiliano Latorre and Salvatore Girone, garnering them exceptional treatment even when they were in jail:
Italy had requested that the marines be allowed to have lunch with its defence minister. The government turned down the request, saying the law does not permit it. Earlier attempts by Italian External Affairs Minister Stefan de Mistura to shift the marines to a guesthouse were also turned down. Recently, the marines' request for a television set, too, was rejected. However, the marines have been granted other privileges in the prison on the direction of the court, including exclusive cell, Italian food, special medical attention as well as an hour-long interaction with visitors everyday.
The men were recently allowed to go home to spend Christmas with their families. A misleading act of good faith that may well have lulled authorities into complacency—but begs the question why they were allowed to shuttle in and out of jail at will, then for Christmas, now to vote—Latore and Girone were always "special cases", and their easy-as-pie prison-break ought not to come as a surprise.
Francois Clavel and Elle Philippe absconded scotfree because New Delhi had little appetite for retaliation: "One reason why the Indian Government is dragging its feet over the extradition is probably the cordial relations India enjoys with France. The support extended by the French Government to India over Pokhran and Kargil is too important to be frittered away."
Fifteen years later, the French ambassador is looking to take the Indo-French partnership with India to "high dimensions," with a special focus on expanding investments in Kerala. Come back, mon ami, all is forgiven!
Rome, however, may not get off quite as easy.
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has termed the current situtation as "unacceptable," a term The Hindu interprets as a signal of his seriousness: "Dr. Singh's previous use of the term "unacceptable"—following the beheading of an Indian soldier on the Line of Control (LoC)—has led to a virtual freeze of high-level dialogue with Pakistan and impacted initiatives to loosen restrictions on trade and people-to-people exchanges."
In 2013, rising, shining India doesn't need Rome's support quite as much — or of any Western ally. The UPA government may also have decided to talk tough to defuse the inevitable chatter about the "Maino Connection" — though it remains unclear why Sonia Gandhi would care about the fate of two strangers just because they are Italian, and demonstrate it in a fashion that would jeopardise the already shaky image of her party.
Whatever the reasons behind their departure, the unpleasant truth is that little can be done to bring the marines back to India. A "virtual freeze" a la Pakistan is possible, but unlikely to be effective since Rome has painted itself into a corner, and has no face-saving way to give in. The will to make popular decisions is minimal in a nation that has just emerged from a national election that delivered a political deadlock.
We may have to settle instead for the unlikely consolation offered by Bitti Mohanty who reminds us that it's not just white-skinned foreigners who get to saunter out of jail. The convicted rapist—as opposed to merely accused—went on the lam while on parole to visit his ailing grandmother. Such are the benefits of being the son of a Director General of Home Guards. There is indeed an "open barn door" policy for natives too! The kind with money or connections, that is.
Fool India twice: How the Italians pulled an old French trick | Firstpost
Fool India twice: How the Italians pulled an old French trick
The polli have flown the coop. Italian stallions have fled the barn. Alas, alack, bwah-ha-ha! We are left beating chests variously in rage and despair at this loss of national face. The Italian provenance of this disgrace has spawned conspiracy theories galore, but the truth is that our government is no less foolish when it comes to Europeans of all stripes.
The Times of India reminds us that the latest showcase of cupidity is just a remake of an old French tale:
In 1996, the crew of a French yacht, Galathee, anchored off Kochi coast, was accused of ocean survey espionage and a case was registered against them in Kerala. The Frenchmen aboard the yacht were taken into custody by Kerala Police and the case was given to the CBI. The agency then filed a chargesheet against Francois Clavel, Elle Philippe, a Goan named Furtado. At the behest of the French government, the Union government allowed Francois Clavel of Paris and Elle Philippe of Madagascar to visit their home during their trial. The French government had assured the government on 6 January 1998, that the two would return.
No prizes for guessing what happened next. The two remain AWOL 15 years later, untraceable by the famed Interpol.Well, it is somewhat ancient history. Perhaps our dear government just plain forgot about that bit of Gallic duplicity. Except not. Director of Prosecutions T Asaf Ali raised that unpleasant memory while opposing the Italian vacation. "We knew this would happen and this is why the Kerala government opposed their return," says Ali. "The assurance given by the Italian ambassador was useless. France, too, had given a similar guarantee. Italians have been reiterating that India doesn't have jurisdictional powers to try their marines. This in itself was sufficient to surmise that they would stay back at some point of time."
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice.
From the moment of their arrest, the Italian government has worked overtime on behalf of Massimiliano Latorre and Salvatore Girone, garnering them exceptional treatment even when they were in jail:
Italy had requested that the marines be allowed to have lunch with its defence minister. The government turned down the request, saying the law does not permit it. Earlier attempts by Italian External Affairs Minister Stefan de Mistura to shift the marines to a guesthouse were also turned down. Recently, the marines' request for a television set, too, was rejected. However, the marines have been granted other privileges in the prison on the direction of the court, including exclusive cell, Italian food, special medical attention as well as an hour-long interaction with visitors everyday.
The men were recently allowed to go home to spend Christmas with their families. A misleading act of good faith that may well have lulled authorities into complacency—but begs the question why they were allowed to shuttle in and out of jail at will, then for Christmas, now to vote—Latore and Girone were always "special cases", and their easy-as-pie prison-break ought not to come as a surprise.
Francois Clavel and Elle Philippe absconded scotfree because New Delhi had little appetite for retaliation: "One reason why the Indian Government is dragging its feet over the extradition is probably the cordial relations India enjoys with France. The support extended by the French Government to India over Pokhran and Kargil is too important to be frittered away."
Fifteen years later, the French ambassador is looking to take the Indo-French partnership with India to "high dimensions," with a special focus on expanding investments in Kerala. Come back, mon ami, all is forgiven!
Rome, however, may not get off quite as easy.
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has termed the current situtation as "unacceptable," a term The Hindu interprets as a signal of his seriousness: "Dr. Singh's previous use of the term "unacceptable"—following the beheading of an Indian soldier on the Line of Control (LoC)—has led to a virtual freeze of high-level dialogue with Pakistan and impacted initiatives to loosen restrictions on trade and people-to-people exchanges."
In 2013, rising, shining India doesn't need Rome's support quite as much — or of any Western ally. The UPA government may also have decided to talk tough to defuse the inevitable chatter about the "Maino Connection" — though it remains unclear why Sonia Gandhi would care about the fate of two strangers just because they are Italian, and demonstrate it in a fashion that would jeopardise the already shaky image of her party.
Whatever the reasons behind their departure, the unpleasant truth is that little can be done to bring the marines back to India. A "virtual freeze" a la Pakistan is possible, but unlikely to be effective since Rome has painted itself into a corner, and has no face-saving way to give in. The will to make popular decisions is minimal in a nation that has just emerged from a national election that delivered a political deadlock.
We may have to settle instead for the unlikely consolation offered by Bitti Mohanty who reminds us that it's not just white-skinned foreigners who get to saunter out of jail. The convicted rapist—as opposed to merely accused—went on the lam while on parole to visit his ailing grandmother. Such are the benefits of being the son of a Director General of Home Guards. There is indeed an "open barn door" policy for natives too! The kind with money or connections, that is.
Fool India twice: How the Italians pulled an old French trick | Firstpost
Vishwarupa
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Re: Italy Won't Send Accused Marines Back to India
What is our Grand Lady of Italy( Sonia Gandhi) saying about this episode. Will she use her cult & get the marines back or is it Italian's using Sonia to escape from this case?
GOI should expel the Italian Ambassador from India. That will teach a lesson to all the others
What is our Grand Lady of Italy( Sonia Gandhi) saying about this episode. Will she use her cult & get the marines back or is it Italian's using Sonia to escape from this case?
GOI should expel the Italian Ambassador from India. That will teach a lesson to all the others
nrj
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Re: Italy Won't Send Accused Marines Back to India
PM warns Italy of 'consequences', envoy says need 'consensual' end
Under attack from the Opposition, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh told Parliament on Wednesday that if Italy does not send back its two marines to face trial in India for killing two fishermen, there will be "consequences".
"Our government has already made it clear that these actions of the Government of Italy are not acceptable. This cannot, by any standards, be in the interests of any bilateral relationship that has to function on the basis of trust. If they do not keep their word, there will be consequences for our relations with Italy," said Singh.
Government sources told The Indian Express that New Delhi will wait till March 22, which is the deadline for the two marines, Massimiliano Lattore and Salvatore Girone, to return, before initiating any retaliatory response.
Meanwhile, Italian ambassador Daniele Mancini, who was summoned by Foreign Secretary Ranjan Mathai yesterday, said his country has not gone back on its assurance to the Supreme Court.
"No, we are not retracting (on the assurance). We are working with the Indian government. You cannot consider the affidavit separate from all the others..., from the suggestions, proposals and ideas that we have been passing to the Indian interlocutors. This is a part of the process," he said on the sidelines of an event, referring to Rome's proposal to resolve the issue through diplomatic dialogue.
Mancini said Italy wants to resolve the issue by "consensual" means. "For us, the supremacy of the international law needs to be re-assessed... we put a number of proposals to the Indian authorities to solve this case by consensual means. This is what we still want to be doing," he said.
When asked if Mancini would be asked to leave, Mathai said: "I think we have made our position very clear....We are awaiting their response. As soon as the response is received, we will take a decision on what to do."
Italian officials, requesting anonymity, said the apex court on January 18 had denied Italian jurisdiction on the case, and asked both countries to engage in a common effort based on Article 100 of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.
"Italy has stated its readiness to start negotiations on such basis. Since there has been no reaction from India in this regard, we have come to the conclusion that it is appropriate to solve the legal dispute according to the international law," Italian diplomats said here today.
"The note verbale sent by our embassy in New Delhi to the ministry on March 11 is intended to give the opportunity to settle the dispute through consensual means offered to the parties by the international law, with the aim of defining a legally sound solution to the case," they said.
"Italy did everything we could to find an acceptable solution to the case, within the framework of our strong and friendly relations with India, and Italy will continue to do so. Legal proceedings against the two marines are still under way before the court of Rome," they added.
PM warns Italy of ‘consequences', envoy says need 'consensual' end - Indian Express
PM warns Italy of 'consequences', envoy says need 'consensual' end
Under attack from the Opposition, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh told Parliament on Wednesday that if Italy does not send back its two marines to face trial in India for killing two fishermen, there will be "consequences".
"Our government has already made it clear that these actions of the Government of Italy are not acceptable. This cannot, by any standards, be in the interests of any bilateral relationship that has to function on the basis of trust. If they do not keep their word, there will be consequences for our relations with Italy," said Singh.
Government sources told The Indian Express that New Delhi will wait till March 22, which is the deadline for the two marines, Massimiliano Lattore and Salvatore Girone, to return, before initiating any retaliatory response.
Meanwhile, Italian ambassador Daniele Mancini, who was summoned by Foreign Secretary Ranjan Mathai yesterday, said his country has not gone back on its assurance to the Supreme Court.
"No, we are not retracting (on the assurance). We are working with the Indian government. You cannot consider the affidavit separate from all the others..., from the suggestions, proposals and ideas that we have been passing to the Indian interlocutors. This is a part of the process," he said on the sidelines of an event, referring to Rome's proposal to resolve the issue through diplomatic dialogue.
Mancini said Italy wants to resolve the issue by "consensual" means. "For us, the supremacy of the international law needs to be re-assessed... we put a number of proposals to the Indian authorities to solve this case by consensual means. This is what we still want to be doing," he said.
When asked if Mancini would be asked to leave, Mathai said: "I think we have made our position very clear....We are awaiting their response. As soon as the response is received, we will take a decision on what to do."
Italian officials, requesting anonymity, said the apex court on January 18 had denied Italian jurisdiction on the case, and asked both countries to engage in a common effort based on Article 100 of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.
"Italy has stated its readiness to start negotiations on such basis. Since there has been no reaction from India in this regard, we have come to the conclusion that it is appropriate to solve the legal dispute according to the international law," Italian diplomats said here today.
"The note verbale sent by our embassy in New Delhi to the ministry on March 11 is intended to give the opportunity to settle the dispute through consensual means offered to the parties by the international law, with the aim of defining a legally sound solution to the case," they said.
"Italy did everything we could to find an acceptable solution to the case, within the framework of our strong and friendly relations with India, and Italy will continue to do so. Legal proceedings against the two marines are still under way before the court of Rome," they added.
PM warns Italy of ‘consequences', envoy says need 'consensual' end - Indian Express
parijataka
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Re: Italy Won't Send Accused Marines Back to India
Smoke and mirrors - bet either the right palms hv been greased or Italian authorities agreed to some quid pro quo in Augusta copter case to bury Indian names - to allow the two Italian marines to escape. In my mother tongue there is a saying `you pretend to cry and I pretend to beat you` - so Mannu will cry and Congress will pretend to be indignant and all will be forgotten in few months.
Smoke and mirrors - bet either the right palms hv been greased or Italian authorities agreed to some quid pro quo in Augusta copter case to bury Indian names - to allow the two Italian marines to escape. In my mother tongue there is a saying `you pretend to cry and I pretend to beat you` - so Mannu will cry and Congress will pretend to be indignant and all will be forgotten in few months.
Coalmine
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Re: Italy Won't Send Accused Marines Back to India
In short congress public ko chu_tiya bana rahi hai.
Even media is not reporting the obvious collusion between congress and Italy and trying to give a somewhat innocent face of govt that it got fooled and sc gave orders to let them go.
In short congress public ko chu_tiya bana rahi hai.
Even media is not reporting the obvious collusion between congress and Italy and trying to give a somewhat innocent face of govt that it got fooled and sc gave orders to let them go.
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Re: Italy Won't Send Accused Marines Back to India
Let raw assasinate the 2 marines, that'll send an adequate response to italy.
Let raw assasinate the 2 marines, that'll send an adequate response to italy.
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Re: Italy Won't Send Accused Marines Back to India
You would be dangerous if you had any power.
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Re: Italy Won't Send Accused Marines Back to India
A more powerful message would be sent if India did not buy Beretta rifles, I think.
shom
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Re: Italy Won't Send Accused Marines Back to India
The provisions if this Code apply also to any offence committed by-
(1) any citizen of India in any place without and beyond India;
(2) any person on any shop or aircraft registered in India wherever it may be.
Explanation.- In this Section the word "offence" includes every act committed outside India which, if committed in India, would be punishable under this Code.
got it,, now it is matter of proving that the vessel in which the murder occurred was registered in India or not,,,,
Judiciary has nothing to do with politics,,, there are provisions of law which a judiciary follows,, in this case it is the jurisdiction of Indian Penal Code which is on stake, IPC sec-4 deals with extra territorial jurisdiction which goes sum wat like thisPowerful lady of the country & the remote contoller on PM button is an Italian so what u can expect , this was on cards
Now what about the innocent fisher man family . Mr. Saint antony what u gonna do now
Home minister Shinde saab im afraid u , Salman khurshid & Digvijay will call the dead fisher man also a Saffron terror leader & deserves to be shot
The provisions if this Code apply also to any offence committed by-
(1) any citizen of India in any place without and beyond India;
(2) any person on any shop or aircraft registered in India wherever it may be.
Explanation.- In this Section the word "offence" includes every act committed outside India which, if committed in India, would be punishable under this Code.
got it,, now it is matter of proving that the vessel in which the murder occurred was registered in India or not,,,,
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Re: Italy Won't Send Accused Marines Back to India
What a useless failed state india is. even tiny eurotrash italy is acting arrogant. better get out while you can.
What a useless failed state india is. even tiny eurotrash italy is acting arrogant. better get out while you can.
Bhadra
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Re: Italy Won't Send Accused Marines Back to India
Simple
No, it is the question of crime committed on Indian territory which included Indian territorial waters..
Simple
Bhadra
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Re: Italy Won't Send Accused Marines Back to India
Mayka aur Sasural have special status as per Indian culture.
Italian criminals have gone scot free ealier also . So what is new now....
Mayka aur Sasural have special status as per Indian culture.
Bhadra
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Re: Italy Won't Send Accused Marines Back to India
What will happen to the kick backs !!
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Can the diplomatic immunity if the Italian Ambassador be revoked and he arrested for submitting a false affidavit in Indian SC? Arrest this guy. India has more to lose with the Italian connections than gain. Italy has been the bane of India since Bofors and other unmentionable names.
shom
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Re: Italy Won't Send Accused Marines Back to India
That is alleged ,,, do u knw the truth?????
Vishwarupa
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Re: Italy Won't Send Accused Marines Back to India
Italian Diplomats cannot leave India till March 18th - Supreme Court of India.
Thanks to Subramanian Swamy
Italian Diplomats cannot leave India till March 18th - Supreme Court of India.
Thanks to Subramanian Swamy
