New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

[sesha_maruthi27]

I think our own gun is good enough. I forgot the name of the new gun designed by OFB, which came after the MSMC

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

I got it, I think the DRDO MULTICAL RIFLE is very good and it must be inducted into the ARMY and should be given to the infantry, why waste money in buying any foreign guns, for that matter even Russians are charging more money from India these days.......

DRDO MULTICAL is a very good design....... Please post any latest news about the gun......

 

[Slimshady6291]

DRDO is set to unveil the multi-caliber individual weapon system (MCIWS) being develped by the Armaments Research and Development Establishment (ARDE), Pune, which will allow operators to alternatively fire 7.62mm, 5.56mm and 6.8 mm rounds by changing the barrel group, breech block & magazine. Provision has also been made to mount an indigenous 40 mm Under Barrel grenade Launcher (UBGL) (pictured above) capable of firing programmable air-burst rounds. CCD camera day sight and thermal imaging night sight can also be mounted on its picatinny rail system to engage targets in day & night conditions. The weapon body is machined with Aluminium alloy and a metal insert based 30 Round engineering plastic magazine and adjustable butt are also featured. Ambidextrous features for cocking, lever change and magazine change have also been incorporated.

 

[s002wjh]

quick read on US SPR, some reason why us force adapt MK12 after Iraq/afahan

if tavor has a match barrel 18"+ and better trigger, then it can used as CQB and SPR purpose.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/land-forces/3796-assault-rifle-150.html post#2248

 

[AshutoshNSingh]

Can we have a combination of Tavor & AK 103s for Army replacing that of INSAS & AK 47?? Both combat proven weapons unlike the prototypes contending the MCAR tender.

 

[Meriv90]

Can we have a combination of Tavor & AK 103s for Army replacing that of INSAS & AK 47?? Both combat proven weapons unlike the prototypes contending the MCAR tender.

ARX-160 is battle proven too and not a prototype(we are already at version A3) plus you will be able to still use your AK mags in it in place of adopting two different AR.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

I prefer the multi-caliber individual weapon system than any other foreign guns.........

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

DRDO is set to unveil the multi-caliber individual weapon system (MCIWS) being develped by the Armaments Research and Development Establishment (ARDE), Pune, which will allow operators to alternatively fire 7.62mm, 5.56mm and 6.8 mm rounds by changing the barrel group, breech block & magazine. Provision has also been made to mount an indigenous 40 mm Under Barrel grenade Launcher (UBGL) (pictured above) capable of firing programmable air-burst rounds. CCD camera day sight and thermal imaging night sight can also be mounted on its picatinny rail system to engage targets in day & night conditions. The weapon body is machined with Aluminium alloy and a metal insert based 30 Round engineering plastic magazine and adjustable butt are also featured. Ambidextrous features for cocking, lever change and magazine change have also been incorporated.

Boss this is a very old news.... In fact this has been posted already and pictures of the gun are also posted.....

 

[ALBY]

ARX 160s are damn too expensive.So is tavor ,CZ,SIG and colt.Galils are the ones which are comparativey cheap ones but with AK grade reliability and accuracy of an AR15.
Buying an AR like ARX which costs more than 1.5 lakh to replace a weapon costing just 25k max is not at all justifiable even after considering the logistics matters.After all neithher of these weaapons are anythhing revolutionary .
Even if we start producing it in indiia we wont be able to scale down the production cost that much.So buy eithher Galil ACE or induct cheap but reliable weapons like AK103 and INSAS 1B1 and upgrade it with quad rails and collapsible butt stocks and holographic sights.
These modifications will do the same effect of buying an expensive weapon like ARX but at much lower prices.

 

[ghost]

India should built a new assault rifle ,that is able to better the good points of Insas as well as other modern assault rifle and eradicate the bad or limitations of Insas.Only then it would be justified to switch to new system.MCIWS has been developed ,it certainly better the Insas in being modular,multicaliber,weight ,everything else is yet to be known, but i hope there is a significant improvement in other field also.

What I would want in an ideal assault rifle, which would help a soldier ?

1 Able to sustain high temperature in continuous firing.

2 Good accuracy upto 500 yards ,so that it can perform diverse role of long range rifle and assault rifle merged into one.

3 Reduced recoil,muzzle climb to enable to shoot accurately ,particularly in a full auto mode.

4 Improved Ease of maintenance and reliability to sustain prolonged use.

5 Ergonomics should be improved to such an extent ,that it provide ease in handling rifle for a long time and enable quick reflex aiming and shooting with ease.

6 Weight should be reduced to such an extent, that it enable a soldier to carry his firearm without any fatigue to long distances.

The list could go on ,but i think these 6 are the six major component of assault rifle ,which if improved would offer a great relief and confidence to soldiers using it.

Now, I am no expert just a plain gun enthusiast,so if you have any contrary views please do point out.


1 First we will deal with, what can be done to tackle excess heating problem in assault rifle?For it first we will have to understand what is overheating in assault rifle.
In traditional weapons that fire metallic-case (brass-case or steel-case) ammunition, approximately 60% of the heat of combustion is removed as the casing is extracted from the chamber and ejected from the weapon. A small percentage of the remaining heat is discharged from the gun in the form of hot gases that leave the muzzle and breech as the bolt travels rearward and cycles a firing stroke. The remaining 40% of the heat "sinks" into the weapon's chamber, barrel extension, barrel, operating system, upper and lower receivers, and that's why the weapon gets hot. The faster the weapon fires the hotter it gets because the heat generated from combustion simply doesn't have time to dissipate into the surrounding air and the heat of combustion builds exponentially.

Moreover, the lighter the gun is constructed (less mass), the more rapidly it gets hot. Think of it as the time difference between heating a cup of water compared to heating a full bucket. The more mass (volume) the longer it takes to get hot. The same is true for assault rifles. The lighter they are constructed, the faster they get hot. In certain firearms, malfunctions, oftentimes dangerous, are frequently caused by the rupture of the barrels resulting from decreased stress properties in the material thereof at the elevated temperatures effected during firing bursts. Then, too, in certain other firearms, having reciprocating barrels supported by hearing members of sleeve configurations, malfunctions frequently occur due to the seizure of the barrels with the bearing members as a consequence of thermal expansion of the barrels through the elevated temperatures produced by prolonged firing.

So in short heat due to prolonged firing is a major problem in an assault rifle.

I think these tend to offer some solution to it.

1 We should have an open bolt assault rifle to prevent cook offs in a hot gun. In open bolt systems a round is not chambered until the operator pulls the trigger. This releases the open bolt which subsequently closes carrying a live round forward into the chamber and the gun continues to fire until the gunner releases the trigger which catches the bolt, stopping it again in the open position.


2 We can develop a cobalt barrel.The benefit of the cobalt alloy is that it is designed to operate in high-temperature, high-stress environments. It has the added benefits of corrosion and erosion resistance.

Flow-Formed Cobalt Barrels Allow All-Day Machine Gunning - The Truth About Guns

3 A thermal barrier for firearms, comprising:
at least one body made of a ceramic material, said body being positionable between a respective barrel of a firearm and at least one structure of said firearm, said body of said thermal barrier having a first portion suitable for remaining facing the barrel of said firearm, and a second portion facing the side opposite with respect to said first portion and suitable for bearing upon at least one portion of the structure of said firearm;
a first element made of a metal material, said first element having an internal substantially cylindrical surface which can be engaged at least partially on said barrel of said firearm and at least one outer surface facing the side opposite to said internal surface of said body, said outer surface being engaged to said body of said thermal barrier; and
a second element made of a polymeric material, said second element having an internal portion facing, at least in part, said second portion of said body of said thermal barrier, and an external portion facing the side opposite to said internal portion, said external portion being engageable to a portion of said at least one structure of the respective firearm, said body of said thermal barrier being placed between said first and second elements.Patent US8615916 - Thermal barrier for firearms and firearm provided with such a thermal barrier - Google Patents

4 The problems are overcome by the introducing resistance to the transmission of the heat, incident to the firing of the weapon, from the bore through the barrel wall. This is achieved by providing a composite barrel comprising a plurality of cylindrical members in nested relationship with induced thermal resistance means comprising one or more layers of a material having either a low thermal conductivity, or rough textured surfaces at the interfaces of the cylindrical members producing an induced high thermal resistance thereat, or a combination of these two thermal control means.Patent US3742640 - Composite firearm barrel - Google Patents

5 We can provide an air cool jacket
The purpose is to provide an air-cooled jacket for gun barrels which will be effective in conducting heat from the barrel, and which may in part be conveniently ex tended to the rear end of the barrel.

A further object is to provide a jacket that is inexpensive and light in Weight and one that may be readily attached to and removed from the gun.Patent US2112144 - Means for cooling gun barrels - Google Patents

6 We can use A high-strength ceramic laminated tube comprising an inner tube of ceramic material and at least one outer tube of a metal or ceramic material shrunken onto the inner tube is provided, e.g., a ceramic tube capable of withstanding the mechanical stresses which occur in, e.g., a gun barrel, or in a bearing subjected to great stress.http://www.google.com/patents/US4401729

Many other solution can be provided to tackle the problem of overheating.The purpose of my post is to point out ,that there are many areas in which we need proper and better solution than the present one.

Would make another post for the rest of the remaining sectors, where I feel we can better the existing grade.

 

[Hari Sud]

A gun with above characteristics does not exit. A 500 yards range is a sniper rifle. All other characteristics are for a different type of guns not in one gun. How do you cut weight, still have rifle with less recoil as well as muzzle climb. Also a cobalt barrel is prohibitive in price. Jacket cooled barrel will make it unwieldy. Heat dissipation is an issue in a machine gun which fires boxes upon boxes of ammunition to deter the enemy from approaching. A soldier who carries a few clips of ammunition and fires to kill the enemy with marksmanship qualities does his job more with precision, less with burst upon burst of ammunition which will overheat the barrel. If I correctly understand loss of heat with jacket ejection and muzzle expulsion of the bullet dissipates most of the heat. This problem will be serious when too much ammunition is wasted as American GIs do in a battle situation. Better trained and motivated troops never fire aimlessly. They do not wish to give indication of their position to the enemy.

The above is all my view.

Kunal Viswas is better placed to offer his worthy opinion.

 

[ghost]

A gun with above characteristics does not exit. A 500 yards range is a sniper rifle. All other characteristics are for a different type of guns not in one gun. How do you cut weight, still have rifle with less recoil as well as muzzle climb. Also a cobalt barrel is prohibitive in price. Jacket cooled barrel will make it unwieldy. Heat dissipation is an issue in a machine gun which fires boxes upon boxes of ammunition to deter the enemy from approaching. A soldier who carries a few clips of ammunition and fires to kill the enemy with marksmanship qualities does his job more with precision, less with burst upon burst of ammunition which will overheat the barrel. If I correctly understand loss of heat with jacket ejection and muzzle expulsion of the bullet dissipates most of the heat. This problem will be serious when too much ammunition is wasted as American GIs do in a battle situation. Better trained and motivated troops never fire aimlessly. They do not wish to give indication of their position to the enemy.

The above is all my view.

Kunal Viswas is better placed to offer his worthy opinion.

Sir,
For point 1 ,that's the whole idea behind this post.To create one.
Regarding 500 yards ,it's for battle rifle like lee enfield and SLR etc ,with the development in technology the difference between carbine,machine gun and assault rifle have diminished so why not battle rifle .SPR rifle is an example of it.Arx has diminished the difference between assault rifle and machine gun.

Point 3 check chriss vector,I know you cannot call it assault rifle but it shows that it can be done,tavor can also answer ur question ,but the whole point being there is none does not mean no one can't create one.

For coballt barrel i am not sure if it is prohibitve in price .A jacket cooled barrel will not make it fat,if you have gone through it.It is made for the assault rifle so it will be adjusted for one,Similary you would have said in past computer can not be portable,laptop and tab were the answer to those.

It is a issue in assault rifle,go ask soldiers who have fought in Iraq and Afganisthan war.I have read their experiences and it is a issue in assault rifle also in case of a prolonged intense firefight.You need to be prepared for the worst possible situation.Further if assault rifle heat up , it is hard to handle ,aim and shoot.

Ek goli ek dushman happens in range,you can't expect a shooting range accuracy in the heat of battle when your target is ducking,firing and moving simultaneously.No one carry a few clip of ammunition in today's war .

There are problems that's why we need solutions,like you would have said similarly , how are plane able to fly because there is gravity.But it was made possible by innovation and solution and one urge to achieve that and i want the same to be done in assault rifle.

One has to search solution, answer to questions for every new innovation .

 

[s002wjh]

A gun with above characteristics does not exit. A 500 yards range is a sniper rifle. All other characteristics are for a different type of guns not in one gun. How do you cut weight, still have rifle with less recoil as well as muzzle climb. Also a cobalt barrel is prohibitive in price. Jacket cooled barrel will make it unwieldy. Heat dissipation is an issue in a machine gun which fires boxes upon boxes of ammunition to deter the enemy from approaching. A soldier who carries a few clips of ammunition and fires to kill the enemy with marksmanship qualities does his job more with precision, less with burst upon burst of ammunition which will overheat the barrel. If I correctly understand loss of heat with jacket ejection and muzzle expulsion of the bullet dissipates most of the heat. This problem will be serious when too much ammunition is wasted as American GIs do in a battle situation. Better trained and motivated troops never fire aimlessly. They do not wish to give indication of their position to the enemy.

The above is all my view.

Kunal Viswas is better placed to offer his worthy opinion.

Scar 17

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Today a Infantryman needs a firearm >

1. Which should be stupid simple to operate and clean.
2. It must able to get its job done in harsh conditions.
3. Marksman ship is very important in Infantry and an Rifleman of today must able to engage at short as well as on medium ranges ( 25-500ms ).
4. Ammunition spending is very important, Every round is counted, Full auto ( Burst ) is useful in very special conditions.
5. There is always a weight limitation to overall solider`s gear.

These are few points which must about a rifle for a IA Infantryman not SF nor Civilian market or any-other Army ..

A gun with above characteristics does not exit. A 500 yards range is a sniper rifle. All other characteristics are for a different type of guns not in one gun. How do you cut weight, still have rifle with less recoil as well as muzzle climb. Also a cobalt barrel is prohibitive in price. Jacket cooled barrel will make it unwieldy. Heat dissipation is an issue in a machine gun which fires boxes upon boxes of ammunition to deter the enemy from approaching. A soldier who carries a few clips of ammunition and fires to kill the enemy with marksmanship qualities does his job more with precision, less with burst upon burst of ammunition which will overheat the barrel. If I correctly understand loss of heat with jacket ejection and muzzle expulsion of the bullet dissipates most of the heat. This problem will be serious when too much ammunition is wasted as American GIs do in a battle situation. Better trained and motivated troops never fire aimlessly. They do not wish to give indication of their position to the enemy.

The above is all my view.

Kunal Viswas is better placed to offer his worthy opinion.

 

[Hari Sud]

Thanks Kunal.

 

[ghost]

@Ky Loung Sir,

What are your views on cz bren 805 . Among all the rifle competing for ar tender which one fares the best?

 

[Ky Loung]

I have no experience with CZ 805. They are not imported into the USA. CZ make great firearms. In the USA the are regarded as a top firearm producer. I personally own a large number of CZ pistol.

AR15 is the best combat rifle in the market but it is a bias opinion. With that said US military will not adopt a new combat rifle in near or far future. Modern firearms are simple machine and have reach it mechanical limits. It is one of many reasons why the US will not change until energy weapons come of age.

Other reasons are R&D and money. The US military spend little in R&D for AR15. R&D cost and advancement in accessories are mainly funded by the private sector. Every years thousands of new products are made for the AR15. AR15 get the new toys before any modern rifles.

The US military do not want to rock the boat in regard to small arms development. If they change to a different rifle it will be a major set back. The military will have to over pay for all the R&D cost and most likely gets subpar products. They will have to wait for at least 17 years or so before the private sector pick up R&D and it depend if US citizens like the new rifle.

Patents last for 17 years in the USA. That means the majority of US citizens will not get their hand on the new rifle for at least 17 years. Private citizens is where the of profits comes from for the firearms industry. If the the private sector can't make money it won't fund for R&D.

Over 200 millions firearms sold in the last 14 years in the USA to private citizen. Currently US population is 300 millions. Firearms accessories (optics, suppressor, electronics, holsters, trigger kits, magazines, handguard, caliber development, etc) are much more profitable than firearms. Hence you see lots of new toys mounted on AR15.

Shotshow is the largest firearms trade show in the world. Over 70,000 attended and counting. It maybe a good idea to send a few of your military guys out each year to see what new products in the pipeline.

ShotShow
https://www.google.com/search?q=sho...:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb

Pictures over the years.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sho...4etogSg14H4Bg&ved=0CAsQ_AUoBA&biw=995&bih=571

 

[cobra commando]

Indian Army finally starts rifle trials - IHS Jane's 360

 

[anupamsurey]

so what happend to DRDO's Multical rifle?, was it flushed in drain again.

 

[Lions Of Punjab]

so what happend to DRDO's Multical rifle?, was it flushed in drain again.

I think this tender is different . it is for carbines . no is also low , 60 000 rifles only . MCIWS will replace INSAS .