New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

[Johny_Baba]

This better not to be true otherwise one more DRDO project is gonna hit the dust.

Same age-old 'The MSMC/JVPC is not ready yet...we're gonna implement those pardeshi carbines to fulfill emergency requirements so it won't become standard issue..." etc bullshit would flood the internet.

 

[An Angry Potato]

what happened to the MSMC? I thought it was ready for induction? or are we going for a rifle cartridge based carbine?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

When does those darra AKs become generation ahead sophisticated weapons?,That is load of nonsense.

Either this is deliberately added by editor or misquoted original source ..

===============

MSMC cleared its user trails in late 2015 but received no words since then, But this purchase is meant for CT forces not regular Army ..

Ghatak AKs are meant for CT operations and already being inducted, Government should look into it ..

http://www.newindianexpress.com/the...-bypasses-rifle-tender-quicksand-1554859.html
But the weapons are no match for militants who use sophisticated automatic weapons. In conventional warfare, militants are multi-generations ahead of the Army,” he said.

What does this report mean? Is MSMC is dead? @Kunal Biswas as already stated the user trails are complete for MSMC

Also this is the same guy who wrote that hit-job against Akash SAM

http://www.newindianexpress.com/the...Indias-Missile-Programme-in-Peril-913856.html

http://www.newindianexpress.com/the...ts-to-Make-in-Abroad-Missile-Plan-913869.html

 

[prateikf]

So the MOD is going to purchase which carbine through Govt to Govt deal? Will it be the Israeli Ace which won the trials of the Baretta carbine which failed in the trials or a American carbine through FMS ? I believe it will be the Ace carbine.

 

[Johny_Baba]

So the MOD is going to purchase which carbine through Govt to Govt deal? Will it be the Israeli Ace which won the trials of the Baretta carbine which failed in the trials or a American carbine through FMS ? I believe it will be the Ace carbine.

Better not GALIL ACE for god's sake.

Ace has some serious flaws which even the manufacturers not care about.
Once the recoil spring buffer (made of polymer) is worn off or broke out,it starts malfunctioning.Initial variant of renowned SG552 had polymer recoil spring buffer and problem related malfunctioning occured in it too.SIG had to redesign rec.spring buffer and then came SG553 which corrected that problem by replacing it with metallic one.
Moreover (not mentioned in video),Galil ace borrowed it's trigger mechanism from Galatz sniper (DMR/Sniper version of Galil) which is not as reliable as original trigger mechanism.

Same things could've said about various 'Sexy-looking' carbines of west.

Better go with Kalantak or MK-1C with 30rd mag borrowed from INSAS LMG (in case of rifle caliber carbine),Ghaatak or MSMC.

 

[Rchauhan]

http://www.newindianexpress.com/the...-bypasses-rifle-tender-quicksand-1554859.html

Hey Guys , some good news . I guess our Soldiers will get Carbine shortly .

 

[ghost]

"4 months given to OFB to prove new design.If it doesn't work,will be done under fast track."- Manohar parrikar in a press conference.

So ,what about the RFI army has issued for Assault rifles?Army wants 7.62x51 ,which is the new rifle developed by the OFB in 7.62x51?

If the OFB rifle does not materialize then Government will go for government to government deal ,instead of tender process.

Anyways ,I have trust in Manohar Parrikar , expect to see new assault rifle within 2 years.

 

[Hari Sud]

Which carbine is being bought with this government to government purchase?

Our tendering process is definitely faulty. Senior Army officers are to be blamed.

I think to keep Arms Merchant at bay, for the time being a Gov to Gov route is better.

 

[India22]

India already has Amogh Carbines so why again bother about purchasing?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

These are not anything separate, Same rifles which failed in smaller barrel 16 inch ..

Unless new firms which are talking part in ..

 

[ghost]

OFB Excalibur is there in 7.62x39mm and MCWS, I don`t know any other new design in 7.62x51mm ..

===========

These are not anything separate, Same rifles which failed in smaller barrel 16 inch ..

Unless new firms which are talking part in ..

Sir,The tender for carbine was a separate one,it was for 5.56 mm .There were few different models apart from the one competing in assault rifle tender.

As far as I know galil ace was selected but the purchase was cancelled due to allegations of corruption made by MOS defence.


Meanwhile, the army is also planning to re-tender tender for 5.56mm CQB carbines, as one of two competing systems has been shortlisted for procurement – the IWI’s Galil ACE CQB carbine as rival Beretta’s ARX160 model was rejected on specious grounds.

Industry sources said the Directorate General of Quality Assurance (DGQA) had rejected Beretta because a safety measure on its laser visible and invisible sight was found unsuitable. The ‘sight’ on offer by Beretta, widely used in the US and other armies across the world, was fitted with a small screw, which needed to be opened before use. This screw, sources said, added purely as a safety measure, dropped off during the trials, resulting in the DGQA rejecting the ARX 160 and leaving only IWI in the reckoning.

“The major reason behind re-tendering the CQB requirement is that with Beretta eliminated, the procurement becomes a single-vendor situation, which defence minister Manohar Parrikar opposes,” a source told the FE.

The ministry of defence has been wanting to delink the ‘sight’ from the weapon system, but the army was adamant and wanted it included. Parrikar is believed to be seeking a legal opinion on whether he can at this stage de-link the ‘sight’ from the carbine.

The irony is that the follow-on order for over 1,60,000 CQB carbines, to be licence-built by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), are to be equipped with a ‘sight’ developed by defence PSU Bharat Electronics (BEL). Fitting the initial lot of 44,618 carbines with imported sights, instead of a BEL-designed equipment, will cost the exchequer an additional Rs 800-1,000 crore.

“BEL’s sight can save the ministry a large amount of money, provided Parrikar is decisive and takes firm action,” said a senior infantry officer. If the carbine requirement is re-tendered, it will take the army another three-four years to procure one, he added. The army has been operating without a carbine since 2010, after it retired the licence-built World War-II sterling sub-machine gun. “CQB carbines are basic infantry weapons for employment on counter-insurgency operations,” said a two-star army officer. By delaying its induction, the operational efficiency of the army is being affected adversely, he added.
http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...contracts-for-assault-rifles-carbines/336599/


Under government to government deal ,I see high chance of either galil ace or m4 .However, I would prefer TAR 21 compact,proven and reliable weapon ,perfect choice .

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Financial express / new indian express/ TOI are unreliable, These sources will speak for any firm who will pay them, It has been exposed on this forum various times ..

Janes on other hand reported two different reports in different timeline through sources from MOD / GOI, Both from 2014 timeline and 2015 that all rifles failed in trails including Israeli at high altitude tests during 2012 and 2014 trails ..

The reason for failures are mainly due to mechanism and metallurgy, Which is same regardless what caliber the firearm is using ..

Sir,The tender for carbine was a separate one,it was for 5.56 mm .There were few different models apart from the one competing in assault rifle tender.

As far as I know galil ace was selected but the purchase was cancelled due to allegations of corruption made by MOS defence.


Meanwhile, the army is also planning to re-tender tender for 5.56mm CQB carbines, as one of two competing systems has been shortlisted for procurement – the IWI’s Galil ACE CQB carbine as rival Beretta’s ARX160 model was rejected on specious grounds.

Industry sources said the Directorate General of Quality Assurance (DGQA) had rejected Beretta because a safety measure on its laser visible and invisible sight was found unsuitable. The ‘sight’ on offer by Beretta, widely used in the US and other armies across the world, was fitted with a small screw, which needed to be opened before use. This screw, sources said, added purely as a safety measure, dropped off during the trials, resulting in the DGQA rejecting the ARX 160 and leaving only IWI in the reckoning.

“The major reason behind re-tendering the CQB requirement is that with Beretta eliminated, the procurement becomes a single-vendor situation, which defence minister Manohar Parrikar opposes,” a source told the FE.

The ministry of defence has been wanting to delink the ‘sight’ from the weapon system, but the army was adamant and wanted it included. Parrikar is believed to be seeking a legal opinion on whether he can at this stage de-link the ‘sight’ from the carbine.

The irony is that the follow-on order for over 1,60,000 CQB carbines, to be licence-built by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), are to be equipped with a ‘sight’ developed by defence PSU Bharat Electronics (BEL). Fitting the initial lot of 44,618 carbines with imported sights, instead of a BEL-designed equipment, will cost the exchequer an additional Rs 800-1,000 crore.

“BEL’s sight can save the ministry a large amount of money, provided Parrikar is decisive and takes firm action,” said a senior infantry officer. If the carbine requirement is re-tendered, it will take the army another three-four years to procure one, he added. The army has been operating without a carbine since 2010, after it retired the licence-built World War-II sterling sub-machine gun. “CQB carbines are basic infantry weapons for employment on counter-insurgency operations,” said a two-star army officer. By delaying its induction, the operational efficiency of the army is being affected adversely, he added.
http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...contracts-for-assault-rifles-carbines/336599/


Under government to government deal ,I see high chance of either galil ace or m4 .However, I would prefer TAR 21 compact,proven and reliable weapon ,perfect choice .

 

[Vayuputra]

kuna@ i'm self taught small arms(rifles ) designer and I have very good assault rifles both regular and SBR barring metallurgy desgings. If i were to present my design then whom do i contact? Btw I'm a civilian.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I would really like to help, But i am not aware of information you seek ..

Private firms are best place to start from, Patent your designs so that it won`t get stolen ..

kuna@ i'm self taught small arms(rifles ) designer and I have very good assault rifles both regular and SBR barring metallurgy desgings. If i were to present my design then whom do i contact? Btw I'm a civilian.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Lets see how this goes ..

 

[Vayuputra]

Thanks for the reply Kunal. Right now am only on wood as I don't want top spend several years behind the bar.

 

[Johny_Baba]

kuna@ i'm self taught small arms(rifles ) designer and I have very good assault rifles both regular and SBR barring metallurgy desgings. If i were to present my design then whom do i contact? Btw I'm a civilian.

Hey brother!
I am deeply interested in Small arms too.
Please share your story abt how you taught yourself designing of small arms-which books/study materials you read,any course you've taken like CAD/CAM etc.,videos related to it,which CAD soft you're using like Solidworks,AutoCAD etc. and more things you can share.
I'm currently studying in electrical engineering (yeah,wrong field for me tbh).If i were in mech engg then i definitely would be designing various small arms.


And for your designs-Try to get into any defense colleges (one is in pune called DIAT and it's direct under M.parrikar).

 

[Vayuputra]

Hey brother!
I am deeply interested in Small arms too.
Please share your story abt how you taught yourself designing of small arms-which books/study materials you read,any course you've taken like CAD/CAM etc.,videos related to it,which CAD soft you're using like Solidworks,AutoCAD etc. and more things you can share.
I'm currently studying in electrical engineering (yeah,wrong field for me tbh).If i were in mech engg then i definitely would be designing various small arms.


And for your designs-Try to get into any defense colleges (one is in pune called DIAT and it's direct under M.parrikar).

No No. I'm not academically inclined as you may think,. My interest in small arms since my birth compelled me to work on it . I did it in old school way, designed the rifle first in my sleep, after designing several rifles, i zeroed on one then i put this on a piece of paper. aReally man, do you think there is a course for learning and excelling in the art of making small arms? If that so, then thousand would have been waiting with their designs outside of OFB office. I;m really a knoob in technical aspects. I attribute my knowledge on small arms to my interest in small arms, My mom used to say one thing that i cried for a toy gun for the first time. My specializations in simplifying things.

 

[Chinmoy]

Sir,The tender for carbine was a separate one,it was for 5.56 mm .There were few different models apart from the one competing in assault rifle tender.

As far as I know galil ace was selected but the purchase was cancelled due to allegations of corruption made by MOS defence.


Meanwhile, the army is also planning to re-tender tender for 5.56mm CQB carbines, as one of two competing systems has been shortlisted for procurement – the IWI’s Galil ACE CQB carbine as rival Beretta’s ARX160 model was rejected on specious grounds.

Industry sources said the Directorate General of Quality Assurance (DGQA) had rejected Beretta because a safety measure on its laser visible and invisible sight was found unsuitable. The ‘sight’ on offer by Beretta, widely used in the US and other armies across the world, was fitted with a small screw, which needed to be opened before use. This screw, sources said, added purely as a safety measure, dropped off during the trials, resulting in the DGQA rejecting the ARX 160 and leaving only IWI in the reckoning.

“The major reason behind re-tendering the CQB requirement is that with Beretta eliminated, the procurement becomes a single-vendor situation, which defence minister Manohar Parrikar opposes,” a source told the FE.

The ministry of defence has been wanting to delink the ‘sight’ from the weapon system, but the army was adamant and wanted it included. Parrikar is believed to be seeking a legal opinion on whether he can at this stage de-link the ‘sight’ from the carbine.

The irony is that the follow-on order for over 1,60,000 CQB carbines, to be licence-built by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), are to be equipped with a ‘sight’ developed by defence PSU Bharat Electronics (BEL). Fitting the initial lot of 44,618 carbines with imported sights, instead of a BEL-designed equipment, will cost the exchequer an additional Rs 800-1,000 crore.

“BEL’s sight can save the ministry a large amount of money, provided Parrikar is decisive and takes firm action,” said a senior infantry officer. If the carbine requirement is re-tendered, it will take the army another three-four years to procure one, he added. The army has been operating without a carbine since 2010, after it retired the licence-built World War-II sterling sub-machine gun. “CQB carbines are basic infantry weapons for employment on counter-insurgency operations,” said a two-star army officer. By delaying its induction, the operational efficiency of the army is being affected adversely, he added.
http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...contracts-for-assault-rifles-carbines/336599/


Under government to government deal ,I see high chance of either galil ace or m4 .However, I would prefer TAR 21 compact,proven and reliable weapon ,perfect choice .

As per ibtimes, Amogh too is on the top five contenders of the list.

Indian Army wants new close-quarter battle carbines; here are the five best options

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/indian-army-wants-new-close-quarter-battle-carbines-here-are-five-best-options-710701

But here too I think the article and its contender are based on writers choice rather then facts.

 

[Rchauhan]

kuna@ i'm self taught small arms(rifles ) designer and I have very good assault rifles both regular and SBR barring metallurgy desgings. If i were to present my design then whom do i contact? Btw I'm a civilian.

The Contact details are mentioned in the below .pdf file , though I am not sure if the below PDF , this may be for a different purpose but these seems to be the people you should get in touch with.

http://indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata/RFI/122/RFI UW ASLT RIF.pdf