New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

[Bhadra]

I have operated extensively not only in CI Area as also in Kargil to include the War, but apart from some cases of 'cold arrest" in Kargil, the remainder complaints seem to be motivated.

A recent report from CRPF as I have quoted elsewhere in this thread also have the same complaints by CRPF except cold arrest. They instead have hot arrest or combat arrest.

By and large, the Indian 5.56 INSAS as a system is not being accepted by troops for CI operations. Even the US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan in part were given AKs. The RPF is equipped with AKs on important routes. BSF in CI operations are being equipped with AKs.

So many people can not be prejudiced, wrong and anti OFV as someone in the forum would like to insist.

 

[SafedSagar]

Does that mean a massive opportunities are now there for desi products, isn't it?

 

[Bhadra]

Does that mean a massive opportunities are now there for desi products, isn't it?

The OFB, DRDO and above all MoD will not allow any desi company to take away their bread and their captive market !

 

[Kunal Biswas]

This is a mid term solution until MICWS get its clearance for mass production ..

Ishapore rifle factory design Rifle goes into mass production ..

KOLKATA: Rifle Factory, Ishapore, one of the oldest ordnance factories in the country, has successfully designed an assault rifle on the lines of the AK-47.Sources in the Ordnance Factory Board said the prototype of this weapon had successfully cleared field trials by the Army, the Indian Air Force and the Sashastra Seema Bal. The Ishapore factory will soon start production of 50,000 units of this rifle in the first phase.

For over a decade now, the Ordnance Factory Board has been attempting to develop an indigenous assault rifle on the lines of the AK-47. Initially, there was some embarrassment after an ordnance factory displayed an indigenous replica of the AK-47 at a defence expo in Delhi. This didn't go unnoticed and Mikhail Kalashnikov, the inventor of the world's most sold and used assault rifle that goes by his name, threatened to file a copyright violation suit against the Indian ordnance factory.

"Since then, our designers have been attempting to develop an assault rifle, using the AK-47 as a model but without replicating any of its mechanism. Three ordnance factories tried to develop their own variants. These were Rifle Factory of Ishapore, the Small Arms Factory of Kanpur and the Ordnance Factory of Tiruchirapalli. The Ishapore factory has a long history of developing and making rifles. During the World Wars, this factory produced .303 bolt-action rifles for the Allied forces. After the 1962 Sino-India conflict, the factory developed and built the 7.62mm self-loading semi-automatic rifle. This rifle was called the Ishapore Rifle and it went on to become the mainstay for the Indian security forces for several decades. In the 90's, the factory started manufacturing the 5.56mm Insas rifles that are still the primary personal weapon of the Indian infantryman," an official said.

The three factories at Ishapore, Kanpur and Tiruchirapalli built prototypes that underwent tests for the first time earlier this year. Minor defects were detected in all three variants. While the one developed by the Ishapore factory was declared fit in all other aspects, it failed to operate successfully in mud. An assault rifle has to be effective in all conditions, even when fired from under slush.

"This defect was rectified subsequently and when the final round of tests was conducted, the Ishapore variant was declared the best. This is an improved version of any assault rifle and the designers borrowed several facets from the 5.56mm Insas, which was also developed at Ishapore, while making this rifle. With the Insas going out of production, facilities at the Ishapore factory were lying idle. The new order will sustain the factory for the times to come," the official added.

Source :

India Develops AK-47 Variant
Ishapore factory develops Indian variant of AK-47 | idrw.org
Ishapore factory develops Indian variant of AK-47 - The Times of India
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ian-variant-of-ak-47/articleshow/44688141.cms

Does that mean a massive opportunities are now there for desi products, isn't it?

The OFB, DRDO and above all MoD will not allow any desi company to take away their bread and their captive market !

 

[ezsasa]

This is a mid term solution until MICWS get its clearance for mass production ..

Just curious...
When a new weapon like MICWS is designed by ARDE, Do they take the weapon for a full round of testing during development phase or they do preliminary tests on premise and leave it to the army to do the full round of testing?

The reason i am asking is because if full round of testing is done by ARDE , army should not be able to find too many faults when it is their turn to do the testing. Product development cycle reduces when a system is tested to the fullest extent during development phase.

When i say Full round of tests i mean the same tests which army does like wet test, high altitude, sand test , Exposing the gun to all environments in our theatre etc...

 

[Kunal Biswas]

According to the reports, Posted in MICWS thread the firearm completed 5.56mm and 7.62x39mm trails not User trails though ..

When i say Full round of tests i mean the same tests which army does like wet test, high altitude, sand test , Exposing the gun to all environments in our theatre etc...

 

[Bhadra]

According to the reports, Posted in MICWS thread the firearm completed 5.56mm and 7.62x39mm trails not User trails though ..

Keep trying .. by that time a new technology would have swept the markets.. that is the problem..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Bhadra, Wht new technologies ?, human race still using gun powder ..

Or you just seems to be impressed with tacticoolness ..

Keep trying .. by that time a new technology would have swept the markets.. that is the problem..

 

[pmaitra]

Keep trying .. by that time a new technology would have swept the markets.. that is the problem..

As far as small arms are concerned, we have reached a technological plateau. Let me list some of the milestones w.r.t. firearms.

• gunpowder
• casing
• rifling
• magazine (gravity-fed or spring-fed)
• self-loading (gas-operated or blow-back)

Most other innovations have been minor.

I am not anticipating any new technology of significance sweeping the markets.

 

[Bhadra]

As far as small arms are concerned, we have reached a technological plateau. Let me list some of the milestones w.r.t. firearms.

• gunpowder
• casing
• rifling
• magazine (gravity-fed or spring-fed)
• self-loading (gas-operated or blow-back)

Most other innovations have been minor.

I am not anticipating any new technology of significance sweeping the markets.

But the question is when will that banana fall from the tree ? and who will manufacture it ?

 

[shekhar]

What happnd to #mciws

 

[Bhadra]

As far as small arms are concerned, we have reached a technological plateau. Let me list some of the milestones w.r.t. firearms.

• gunpowder
• casing
• rifling
• magazine (gravity-fed or spring-fed)
• self-loading (gas-operated or blow-back)

Most other innovations have been minor.

I am not anticipating any new technology of significance sweeping the markets.

Still you import following ammunition :
Carts 9 mm Ball
Carts 7.62 MM Steel Core Bullets
Carts SA 7.62 MM B- 32
Carts 7.72 MM T-46
12.7 HE (Ball)
7.62 Sniper Amn

 

[blueblood]

NEW DELHI: The humble foot-soldier's torturous wait for a new-generation assault rifle may now get longer. India is likely to scrap its four-year-old hunt for new-generation assault rifles with interchangeable barrels for conventional warfare and counter-insurgency operations.

Ordinary infantry jawans are often forgotten in the race for acquiring big-ticket weapons like fighters, helicopters, submarines, tanks, howitzers and the like. Leave alone advanced weaponry, they are even now still to be adequately-equipped with modular bullet-proof jackets, webbing and light-weight ballistic helmets with internal communication gear.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...le-may-be-called-off/articleshow/47349586.cms

========================================================

Don't know whether to laugh or cry?

 

[SajeevJino]

@ALBY Plijj tell me ..!!

What's the status of current Indian OFB products and foreign products in the below list

1. Assault Rifles- - -
2. Close combat ---
3. Sniper
4. LMG

 

[ALBY]

Ghatak cleared the paramilitary user trials.
MCIWS still under development.
Few hundred Amoghs in the hands f coast guard.
RFI will be issued very soon for Snipers to replace SVD and also GPMG to replace MAG58s ,PKMs , Brens and INSAS LMG.
Meanwhile OFB is developing an GPMG in 7.62 nato .Nothing much is heard about it .Most probably they will end up developing a variant of MAG58 or PKM.Or will scrap it and army will go for IWI Negev in 7.62 going by the recent trend of SF and many police forces procuring the israeli weapon.
Though i will love to see Bulgarian PKMs or Russian PKMPencheng in 7.2 NATO.

 

[SajeevJino]

Ghatak cleared the paramilitary user trials.

so, It's possible that para military may change the INSAS and adopt the Ghatak soon. is that Ghatak 7.62mm

MCIWS still under development

Development only ..!! so no chance of coming in the forces,

Few hundred Amoghs in the hands f coast guard.

How's it's performance, can it perform good in close battles, any plans of mass produce ..

Caliber please.? 5.56mm I think

RFI will be issued very soon for Snipers to replace SVD

your choice of Future Sniper platform.. how is the NSG's PSG 90

and also GPMG to replace MAG58s ,PKMs , Brens and INSAS LMG.

GPMG.. means M240

any tender for that LMG replacement

Meanwhile OFB is developing an GPMG in 7.62 nato .Nothing much is heard about it .Most probably they will end up developing a variant of MAG58 or PKM.

Yeah I too think the same .. modified PKM maybe

Or will scrap it and army will go for IWI Negev in 7.62 going by the recent trend of SF and many police forces procuring the israeli weapon.

How clear about that does we have Negav LMG's. that photo showing MARCO or PARA with Negav seems some foreign exercise

Though i will love to see Bulgarian PKMs or Russian PKMPencheng in 7.2 NATO.

new version of old PKM ..?

 

[Pulkit]

Bhadra, Wht new technologies ?, human race still using gun powder ..

Or you just seems to be impressed with tacticoolness ..

Kunal the basics and rules of most of the old technologies remain same there is still scope in terms of improvement in efficiency and durability.
We have come from rifles but manual feeding or gun powder bullet to automatic.
We have bullets which can pass from bullet proof glasses.
We have made guns with lesser recoil lesser weight.

In all these the basic concept core remains the same but the product varies.

how about a gun weighing under 1kg range 600m. easy to carry ,minimum recoil . huge range of ammunation to be used.... easy to clean , easy repair.

Edited: How about a gun firing energy beams no issue of carrying ammunition and ammunition getting exausted

So there is still scope in this field aswell.

As far as small arms are concerned, we have reached a technological plateau. Let me list some of the milestones w.r.t. firearms.

• gunpowder
• casing
• rifling
• magazine (gravity-fed or spring-fed)
• self-loading (gas-operated or blow-back)

Most other innovations have been minor.

I am not anticipating any new technology of significance sweeping the markets.

But the question is when will that banana fall from the tree ? and who will manufacture it ?

 

[shekhar]

I hope you didn't missed this posted by me few pages ago ..

There cannot be design changes in these firearms, Hence they cannot pass same fate for Mufti-cal rifle as they themselves are same firearms ..

Any information abt #mciws sir....why nt army select mciws

 

[Liberty_and_Freedom]

If not imports, private companies should be given the opportunity to manufacture firearms in India.
This would bring in an element of choice and competition to the market.

 

[ALBY]

so, It's possible that para military may change the INSAS and adopt the Ghatak soon. is that Ghatak 7.62mm



Development only ..!! so no chance of coming in the forces,



How's it's performance, can it perform good in close battles, any plans of mass produce ..

Caliber please.? 5.56mm I think



your choice of Future Sniper platform.. how is the NSG's PSG 90



GPMG.. means M240

any tender for that LMG replacement



Yeah I too think the same .. modified PKM maybe



How clear about that does we have Negav LMG's. that photo showing MARCO or PARA with Negav seems some foreign exercise



new version of old PKM ..?

Ghataks are to equip the Paramilitary in Naxal areas as there are reports that CRPF is dismayed at the performance of INSAS in CT ops ,citing the high stoppages when compared with that of x-95 and AKMs.
Don't know about the performance as it is supplied to only Navy and Coast Guard to replace Sterlings.Unless it is inducted into CAPF/army its not going to see any real action.Caliber is 5.56x30 ,inferior to 5.56 NATO but far better than 9mms.
PSGs are good but bulky also like SVD it doesn't have an integral bipood though its variat MSG90 have.
For snipers the future is of .338 lapua rounds coz they have more range and fire power than usual 7.62 NATO bolt action rifles,but less weight than a .50 caliber weapon.
The RFI will be for a single LMG to replace all machine guns.
Negevs are in use with MARCOS,GARUDS,swat teams of Punjab,chattisgarh,Octopus unit of hyderabad.
Only PARA don't use them as they have abundance of captured PKMs .