New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Which Contender`s Rifle has more chances of winning than others?


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Maharaj samudragupt

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Then army ordered their first ak type rifle from chezchoslovakia called vz 58 .
The insas came in 1998 but army wanted a definitive source for the supply of ak type rifles for coin in jk .
The army turned to Bulgaria , since then we buy arsenal ar Kalashnikov type rifles , thats why ak rifles used by paramilitary and army both have black furniture .
 

Maharaj samudragupt

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Recently the army got it's hand on ghatak rifle (ofb version of ak , earlier version called ak 7 was shelved after army showed no interest and Mikhail Kalashnikov chcha of russia protested against this move by india) .
So we have never bought ak from Russia , it's either from Bulgaria , chezchoslovakia , ghatak by ofb or taken from dead tangos in earlier times .
 

Maharaj samudragupt

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What are the Indian Made AK rifles called? Are those still in consideration for the army or any police/paramilitary forces? If there are already a lot of AK rifles in service, keeping the same platform to keep troops familiar seems reasonable.

Also, if anyone can explain where the AKs in current service came from that would be great. Were they made in India or did they buy them from Russia?
The most used variaNt is arsenal ar m1 rifle of Bulgaria .
 

valleyosint

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Then army ordered their first ak type rifle from chezchoslovakia called vz 58 .
The insas came in 1998 but army wanted a definitive source for the supply of ak type rifles for coin in jk .
The army turned to Bulgaria , since then we buy arsenal ar Kalashnikov type rifles , thats why ak rifles used by paramilitary and army both have black furniture .
If Paramilitary and Army both use black furniture AKs, what about the orange furniture AKs I've seen on this board? And you said they have the ghatak in the field, but what about the Tirchy? I thought that was also getting bought by the military
 

ShoorVeer

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If Paramilitary and Army both use black furniture AKs, what about the orange furniture AKs I've seen on this board? And you said they have the ghatak in the field, but what about the Tirchy? I thought that was also getting bought by the military
Army mostly uses AKs bought in the 90s when the RR was being set up. Most of these are East German, Romanian, Bulgarian. These guns are the ones in orange furniture. Army also procured some Bulgarian Arsenal AKs time-to-time. These are the ones in black furniture. Very rare.

All MHA units, including Assam Rifles, now mostly operate Bulgarian Arsenal AKs which were bought in large number primarily after 2008. These are the ones in black. They also have old stock of Soviet and East German AKs which are seldom seen in dark brown or orange/wooden furniture. CAPFs also adopted Trichy AR (copy of Arsenal AKs) and Ghatak AR (INSAS type AK, SAF Kanpur) in small numbers. Afaik, army has never ordered them.
 

valleyosint

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Army mostly uses AKs bought in the 90s when the RR was being set up. Most of these are East German, Romanian, Bulgarian. These guns are the ones in orange furniture. Army also procured some Bulgarian Arsenal AKs time-to-time. These are the ones in black furniture. Very rare.

All MHA units, including Assam Rifles, now mostly operate Bulgarian Arsenal AKs which were bought in large number primarily after 2008. These are the ones in black. They also have old stock of Soviet and East German AKs which are seldom seen in dark brown or orange/wooden furniture. CAPFs also adopted Trichy AR (copy of Arsenal AKs) and Ghatak AR (INSAS type AK, SAF Kanpur) in small numbers. Afaik, army has never ordered them.
So if I'm getting this right, police and paramilitary have all the AK patterns while the army and SF have the newer Tavor and Sig rifles?
 

Flying Dagger

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So if I'm getting this right, police and paramilitary have all the AK patterns while the army and SF have the newer Tavor and Sig rifles?
Army Have Sig 716 as main battle rifle with INSAS. Bulgarian Arsenal Aks Tavor Galil etc many other variant exist in different nnumber.
 

Maharaj samudragupt

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If Paramilitary and Army both use black furniture AKs, what about the orange furniture AKs I've seen on this board? And you said they have the ghatak in the field, but what about the Tirchy? I thought that was also getting bought by the military
No. Tirchy , nowhere .
 

Maharaj samudragupt

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Army mostly uses AKs bought in the 90s when the RR was being set up. Most of these are East German, Romanian, Bulgarian. These guns are the ones in orange furniture. Army also procured some Bulgarian Arsenal AKs time-to-time. These are the ones in black furniture. Very rare.

All MHA units, including Assam Rifles, now mostly operate Bulgarian Arsenal AKs which were bought in large number primarily after 2008. These are the ones in black. They also have old stock of Soviet and East German AKs which are seldom seen in dark brown or orange/wooden furniture. CAPFs also adopted Trichy AR (copy of Arsenal AKs) and Ghatak AR (INSAS type AK, SAF Kanpur) in small numbers. Afaik, army has never ordered them.
Tirchi has no cleaning rod though
 

ShoorVeer

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So if I'm getting this right, police and paramilitary have all the AK patterns while the army and SF have the newer Tavor and Sig rifles?
You're mostly correct. We have a large army that has a lot of weapons in service as of now. The units engaged in CI/CT and on LOC/NE insurgency have mostly been outfitted with AKs. Normal infantry regiments, mechanized infantry and other branches also operate a small number of AKs alongside INSAS in a carbine role. They also have the 9MM SAF Carbine alongside the AKs for that. Mainstay of most of the army is the INSAS rifle. Now, to replace this khichdi of carbines, army wants a new 5.56MM carbine rifle. Also, to replace the INSAS totally from all branches, it wants a combination of AK203 and the SIG716. But, just like in the past, we do not have enough financial resources as well as doctrinal/political will to outfit all the infantry regiments with SIG, therefore, army has gone for enough SIGs to outfit the Northern Command.

Army SFs mostly used AKs till 90s. They got new equipment from the 00s - the Tavors. They also got some M4s from US around 08-09 I think. Some army units also operate X95s, MP9, Uzi in carbine role.

The CAPFs operate mostly INSAS and AKs and X95. CRP has been insistent and has got a lot of AKs in its inventory now. Earlier they wanted to replace AK with INSAS 100% in Kashmir and 50% in naxal areas. SSB has the least number of AKs. Its units in Kashmir are mostly seen with INSAS. Similarly, less AKs are seen with BSF, ITBP as compared to CRP. Ministry of Rail unit, RPF also operates a large number of AKs.

Various state police units have different weapons. JKP, atleast in the valley seems to have 100% AKs. There are many states where they have not even replaced SLRs from their inventory. It is very varied and only someone looking at the procurement can tell you about their inventory.
 

valleyosint

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You're mostly correct. We have a large army that has a lot of weapons in service as of now. The units engaged in CI/CT and on LOC/NE insurgency have mostly been outfitted with AKs. Normal infantry regiments, mechanized infantry and other branches also operate a small number of AKs alongside INSAS in a carbine role. They also have the 9MM SAF Carbine alongside the AKs for that. Mainstay of most of the army is the INSAS rifle. Now, to replace this khichdi of carbines, army wants a new 5.56MM carbine rifle. Also, to replace the INSAS totally from all branches, it wants a combination of AK203 and the SIG716. But, just like in the past, we do not have enough financial resources as well as doctrinal/political will to outfit all the infantry regiments with SIG, therefore, army has gone for enough SIGs to outfit the Northern Command.

Army SFs mostly used AKs till 90s. They got new equipment from the 00s - the Tavors. They also got some M4s from US around 08-09 I think. Some army units also operate X95s, MP9, Uzi in carbine role.

The CAPFs operate mostly INSAS and AKs and X95. CRP has been insistent and has got a lot of AKs in its inventory now. Earlier they wanted to replace AK with INSAS 100% in Kashmir and 50% in naxal areas. SSB has the least number of AKs. Its units in Kashmir are mostly seen with INSAS. Similarly, less AKs are seen with BSF, ITBP as compared to CRP. Ministry of Rail unit, RPF also operates a large number of AKs.

Various state police units have different weapons. JKP, atleast in the valley seems to have 100% AKs. There are many states where they have not even replaced SLRs from their inventory. It is very varied and only someone looking at the procurement can tell you about their inventory.
It's a shame the procurement is such a mashed up mess, it makes it quite a challenge to keep up with who has what! And the poor units that have to issue a different rifle to every man must be a challenge
 

ezsasa

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It's a shame the procurement is such a mashed up mess, it makes it quite a challenge to keep up with who has what! And the poor units that have to issue a different rifle to every man must be a challenge
inventory of an unit largely remains the same for a fixed period of time depending on their rotation in and out of sensitive areas.

if at all there is any change it would be INSAS replaced with AK, rest of the inventory will largely remain the same.

IA has been at it for 30 years now, induction process is streamlined.
 

MisraZ

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What are the Indian Made AK rifles called? Are those still in consideration for the army or any police/paramilitary forces? If there are already a lot of AK rifles in service, keeping the same platform to keep troops familiar seems reasonable.

Also, if anyone can explain where the AKs in current service came from that would be great. Were they made in India or did they buy them from Russia?
Indian made AK with timeline:
1. MRF 91 (Early 90s, entered limited service)
2. AK7 ( somewhere around 2004-8, Looks identical to Arsenal ARM1)
3. Trichy assault rifle (<2010, Initial variant which drew inspiration from 1A SLR )
4. Trichy assault rifle in its current form, a copy of Arsenal Co. AKs with slight difference
5. OFB Ghatak, latest version from OFB (AKM who wanted to become insas when he grew up 😂😂)

Go through Kunal Biswas sir's or Unknown commando's posts for more details.
 

WolfPack86

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AK 203 contract for Amethi Factory soon: Army Chief Gen MM Naravane
The Amethi factory to manufacture modern assault rifles for the Army is likely to get operationalised soon, with the Army chief saying that a final contract is expected shortly and all issues have been sorted out.

The plan to manufacture 671427 of the AK 203 rifles at the factory has been under discussion for almost two years, with the contract stipulating 100% transfer of technology and possible exports in the future from the Indian plant.

“Negotiations are at an advanced stage. There were some last-minute hitches and hiccups and those have been ironed out now. I hope the final contract will be signed soon,” Army Chief Gen MM Naravane said in response to a ET question.


Sources said that as per current discussions, the rifles – to be made by a joint venture between Kalashnikov and the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) – are expected to cost under Rs 70,000 a piece, significantly cheaper that US made rifles imported by the Army under an emergency order that cost the exchequer Rs 89,000 a piece.

Besides, India will get complete know how to manufacture modern assault rifles, given that the contract specifies that all of these need to be made completely in India from the first day. Sources said that there had been differences regarding the pricing of the deal, as OFB and Kalashnikov’s offer was deemed to be high but this is being sorted out.

A bulk of the cost for the rifles will go towards OFB which needs to absorb the technology. Sources said that the royalty per rifle to the Russian side will be just over Rs 6,000, against the rifle cost of Rs 70,000.

As reported by ET, the defence ministry had set up a pricing committee in June last year after difficulties in arriving at a final price for the project. The project has high priority on the bilateral agenda since an inter-governmental agreement was signed in January 2019.
 

WolfPack86

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India starts licensing production of the Russian AK-203
India is about to launch licensed production of Russian Kalashnikov’s AK-203 assault rifles. The manufacturing process will be conducted at a plant in Korva (Uttar Pradesh).

General Manoj Naravane, Chief of Staff of the Army of the Indian Armed Forces, stated that negotiations with the Kalashnikov Concern are close to a deal and he’s confident the agreement for the production of automatic weapons will be signed in the near future.

And according to the Russian side participating in the negotiations, the project for the licensed production of Russian AK-203 Kalashnikov assault rifles in India is indeed at the final stage of implementation. “The project is at the final stage. All technical and commercial issues have been agreed,” a source said.

According to the deal, India will produce as many as 671,427 AK-203 assault rifles.

According to The Economic Times of India, the cost of one AK-203 produced in India under license will be 70 thousand Indian rupees (approx. $958), which is significantly less than the cost of American-made assault rifles purchased under an accelerated procedure for 89 thousand rupees (approx. $1,218) per unit.

The AK-203 is a 7,62x39 mm assault rifle created specially for the Indian military.

It has a number of ergonomic improvements compared to previous AK versions that are required in modern warfare. These include a new ergonomic handle that perfectly imitates the user’s grip, a left-folding and retractable stock, the possibility for installation of modern sighting systems and accessories, such as optical and/or optoelectronic scopes, thermal imaging and collimator sights.

Now, Indians will also be able to mount infrared illuminators onto their AKs that allow to use them in conjunction with night vision devices, laser sight, weapon lights and others, both domestic and foreign production, with a universal Picatinny rail integrated in the receiver on top, bottom and both sides of the rifle.

What is extremely important is that the 200-series assault rifles have improved shooting accuracy. Sighting devices are mechanical, but as mentioned above, you can now mount all kinds of optic devices on an AK-203.

The barrel is equipped with a slit flame suppressor-compensator, also different from the 100 series. If necessary, the 200-series assault rifles can be equipped with quick-release tactical silencers.

The strength of the butt allows a person to use the weapon with an under-barrel grenade launcher or use it in hand-to-hand combat with a standard bayonet knife.
 

WolfPack86

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Indian Army embarks on a new hunt for carbines | India Today Insight
The Indian Army has issued a fresh Request for Information (RFI) for a fast-track procurement of 93,895 carbines. This comes five months after the defence ministry revoked the case for procuring a similar number of carbines under the Fast-Track Procedure (FTP).

The RFIs were issued on February 10 to multiple Indian and global manufacturers, including Caracal, Colt, SiG Sauer, Beretta, Thales and Adani Defence. In 2018, UAE gun maker Caracal’s CAR 816 carbine had emerged as the lowest bidder in the FTP initiated by the Indian Army for a new compact weapon to replace its World War 2 vintage 9 mm 1A1 ‘Sterling’ carbine. As before, the army wants the new carbine chambered for the 5.56x45 mm cartridge. At just a single page, the army’s new RFI is far simpler compared to its three-page RFI in 2018. The service aims to procure the weapons within a year of the contract signing. The size of this deal is not yet known, but if one were to make estimation from Caracal’s 2018 bid, then it would likely be upwards of $110 million (over Rs 800 crore).

Defence Secretary Ajay Kumar, who heads the Defence Procurement Board (DPB), finally pulled the plug on the acquisition last September. The earlier deal was questioned by senior defence ministry officials on two grounds—i) the carbines were costlier than the US-made SiG 716 assault rifles also imported under the FTP last year for over Rs 700 crore; and ii) the defence ministry officials noted that no part of the weapons was being manufactured indigenously. Last September, Caracal had offered to manufacture all the rifles in-country as part of the government’s Make in India initiative. The UAE government-owned arms maker said it would also oversee technology transfer.

Top army officials had also explored options for purchasing a smaller quantity of around 25,000 carbines from the UAE manufacturer, but this idea seems to have been abandoned in favour of a fresh contract.
 

sorcerer

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In boost to Atmanirbhar Bharat, security forces to get India-made Israeli assault rifles

New Delhi:
In a boost to the ‘Atmanirbhar Bharat’ initiative, India-made Israeli Tavor X 95 rifles are now being supplied to central forces and various state police teams, ThePrint has learnt.


Until now, special forces and others using these assault rifles used to import them from the Israel Weapons Industry (IWI), a former Israeli government firm that was privatised in 2005.




The Indian Army has also issued a fresh Request for Information (RFI) to fast-track procurement (FTP) of 93,895 carbines, after the last process, under which UAE firm Caracal was shortlisted, was scrapped.


The Army has issued RFI to all major foreign small arms manufacturers, including Caracal, Colt, SiG Sauer, Beretta and Kalashnikov. But the significant change in FTP this time is that the RFI has also been sent to multiple Indian firms like the Ordinance Factory Board, Reliance Defence, SSS Defence, Bharat Forge of the Kalyani Group and the Adani-PLR Systems, besides others.

 

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