New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Which Contender`s Rifle has more chances of winning than others?


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WolfPack86

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AK-203 rifle deal with Russia makes progress
Discussions for a joint venture project in India are at an advanced stage
India and Russia have made progress towards concluding the deal to manufacture AK-203 assault rifles in India. The progress of the discussions, now at an advanced stage, for the establishment of a joint venture project in India was reviewed on Thursday by Defence Minister Rajnath Singh and his Russian counterpart Gen. Sergey Shoigu, the Defence Ministry said.

Mr. Singh is in Moscow on a three-day visit for the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) defence ministers’ meet and also the 75th anniversary event to commemorate Victory Day. Coinciding with the visit, Navies of India and Russia are set to hold an exercise, Indra 2020, off the Strait of Malacca on September 4 and 5.

“Defence Minister noted that these exercises demonstrated the common interests of both countries in maritime security in the Indian Ocean Region. There was substantial commonality in positions with respect to challenges at the regional and international levels in the areas of peace and security,” the Ministry said in a statement.

Mr. Singh also conveyed appreciation for the “timely manner in which the Russian had responded to requests for procurement of particular weapon systems,” the Ministry said.

Indian armed forces had embarked on emergency procurements amid the ongoing tensions with China on the disputed boundary.
 

WolfPack86

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Govt plans to scrap 2 defence deals under foreign procurement, could go ‘atma nirbhar’ way
The Defence Ministry is learnt to have decided to scrap two deals that were being pursued under foreign procurement — carbines from UAE and Self-Propelled Air Defence Gun Missile System (SPAD-GMS) from South Korea — and route them through the ‘Make in India’ initiative.

Sources in the defence and security establishment told ThePrint that at a special meeting, attended by top officials, a decision was made to indigenously build the two projects worth nearly USD 4 billion.

The deal for the new close quarter battle (CQB) carbines, a long arm firearm, had been in the works since 2017.


A UAE firm, Caracal International, finished as ‘L-1’ or the lowest bidder in September 2018 for a contract that was supposed to be fast-tracked.

However, it ran into rough weather over pricing and representation by the Defence Research and Development Organisation, and domestic small arms industry, who wanted to have a shot at the deal.

The carbines are meant to replace the outdated and ageing 9 mm British Sterling 1A1 sub-machine guns that are currently in service.

The Army had in 2017 decided to opt for Fast Track Procurement (FTP) of 93,895 new carbines against an overall demand of 3.5 lakh such weapons.

Sources now indicated that the FTP numbers could actually be added to the overall demand and a tender could be issued next year.

Efforts to acquire the CQB carbines since 2008 have not materialised as the carbines of state-owned DRDO and Ordnance Factory Board had failed to meet the Army requirements.

The SPAD-GMS project

The SPAD-GMS project is another project that has run into rough weather. This was meant to replace the 1,360 obsolete Bofors L 70 40 mm single barrel and Soviet-era ZU-23-2 towed 23 mm twin-barrel weapon systems.

The tender for this was floated in 2013 and the competition was primarily between Russia and South Korea.

Russia had fielded two weapon systems — the upgraded Tunguska system fielded by arms company Almaz Antey and Pantsir by a company called KBP Tula — but failed to pass the technical rounds.

South Korean company Hanwha Defense, which had put forward ‘Hybrid Biho’, did not meet full technical parameters.

Russia has been complaining to the Ministry of Defence against the South Korean system since 2018.
 

WolfPack86

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Indian Army plans to scrap deal of 93,000 carbines from UAE, hopes for indigenous companies ?
Indian Army plans to scrap the deal of procurement of 93,895 CAR 816 close quarter carbines from the United Arab Emirates government owned company Caracal International LLC, as reported by The Print.


In 2017, Indian Army decided to opt for Fast Track Procurement (FTP) of 93,895 new carbines for armed forces as a replacement for the ageing 9 mm British Sterling 1A1 SMG.




A UAE firm, Caracal International, finished as ‘L-1’ or the lowest bidder in September 2018 for the contract, however things doesn’t goes as expected.


Its been 2 years now but Caracal International didn’t received the order for 93 thousands carbines which was meant to be fast track.

Currently Indian Army has a requirement of over 3.5 lakh new close quarter carbines.




it is still unclear if the government’s emphasis on Aatmnirbhar Bharat (self-reliant India) in recent months has contributed to a rethink.


Though scrapping this deal is surely a sign of relief for indigenous private companies like SSS Defence who developed small arms for armed forces and in hope that Indian Army will give them a chance.

SSS Defence P-72 Recon Carbine available in the 7.62×39 mm and 5.56 x 45 mm. The design has stripped away any excess weight for fast-handling. It offers free floating barrel, Shorter piston system to accommodate short barrel and a retractable stock.


SSS Defence P-72 Recon Carbine surely can fill the Army requirements, if it pass in trials.



One of the most important benifit that SSS defence can give over Caracal International is SSS Defence weapons can easily be modified on Army demand as it a indigenous weapon.
 

WolfPack86

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CQB deal to be closed by year-end? Possibly yes, indicate sources
These CQBs are a critical weapon for the troops posted in the Valley and on the Line of Control, to deal with the constant terrorist attacks from the Pakistan side.

Wait by the UAE based Caracal continues for a decision to be taken on the close-quarter-battle carbines (CQB), for the Indian Army. The deal worth $553 million for 93,895 CQB, has been stuck for almost two years now. Sources have confirmed to Financial Express Online that, “A UAE government delegation recently met with senior officials at the Indian mission in Abu Dhabi. The main agenda was the long delay in the signing of the deal for Close Quarter Carbine (CQB) for the Infantry soldiers.”

This deal was put on Fast Track Procurement (FTP) as the Indian Army requires these CQBs urgently. As has been reported by Financial Express Online the UAE based company Caracal was declared as L1 in 2018 after having fulfilled all the requirements and procedures laid down in the DPP.

The issue of delay on the final decision by the Indian side has been raised at various levels including at recent meeting in Abu Dhabi.

Though there is still a lack of clarity on the reason about dealy, sources have indicated “While the Ministry of Defence (MoD) is keen to add `Make in India’ clause, the Indian Army Headquarters is keen to conclude this deal fast as the CQBs are needed on an urgent basis. ”

“There is a possibility of the deal being inked before the year ends. And this will help the soldiers,” added the source.

Several presentations have been made to the office of the CDS, outlining the reasons for the urgent requirement for the carbines. To push the `Make in India’ initiative, the MoD plans to initiate the procedure for CQBs to be made here locally, as several Indian companies have offered to manufacture here,” a senior officer indicated.

These CQBs are a critical weapon for the troops posted in the Valley and on the Line of Control, to deal with the constant terrorist attacks from the Pakistan side. And with China becoming belligerent along the LAC, the LOC is becoming more active, and this is why the Indian Army wants to ensure the procurement is expedited.

Meanwhile …

Indian company Bharat Forge along with the European company Thales has offered to make these CQBs here locally and at the same price as being offered by the UAE based company.

Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi to be the Republic Day chief guest in 2021?
According to sources, Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi and Deputy Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces of the United Arab Emirates is likely to be the chief guest next year. “The decision for the chief guest has not yet been taken,” said a senior officer on condition of anonymity.

The story so far for the CQB
It is now 19 months since the company after going through extensive trials in India in different terrains as well outside the country was declared L1. During the trials, Indian ammunition was used in the CQBs made in UAE. However, there were several representations by companies which had failed to clear the trials. And to studies those representations an Oversight Committee led by a Brigadier rank officer was set up which went through them and has submitted its report to the MoD. “The representations made to the MoD basically stated that the UAE based company has no facility to fulfil India’s order and this could delay the delivery of 93,895 CQBs,” said an officer.

What happens under FTP?

Once the government decides to procure through this route then the delivery has to be made within one year from the time the contract is signed.

Who were the other bidders?
S&T Motiv of South Korea & European Company Thales.
 

Shaitan

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Definitely, a interesting turn of events. I dont think they'll accept MINSAS round, but are they going to wait for ARDE's 5.56 CQB? SSS Defence 5.56?
 

Holy Triad

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Definitely, a interesting turn of events. I dont think they'll accept MINSAS round, but are they going to wait for ARDE's 5.56 CQB? SSS Defence 5.56?
I think they'll order a combo of ace n arad,

Imo,SF units n Ghatak will choose arad n other units which are all using sterling will replace it ace.
 

Shaitan

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Yeah, local support is a most. IWI is already set up in India. Personally, would not want to wait for something like the ARDE CQB rifle, etc. Sterlings needed to be replaced yesterday-yesterday.
 

Mangal

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Scrapping of Carcal deal is not good. Altogether it was a good rifle and scrapping of deal will only lead to further delay of may be two years more. Now after two years we will still have a rifle that is equal to carcal quality wise. So whats the point?
 

WolfPack86

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Carbines, Anti Air Systems for Indian Army to be made in India after MoD cancels import
The defence ministry has cancelled two arms import contracts for the army worth over $ 2.5 billion that were in the final stages, preferring to go for the Make in India route. In a special meeting held on Tuesday, chaired by the Defence Secretary, it has been decided that plans to procure close quarter carbines from a UAE based company and a program to import Self Propelled Air Defence systems from South Korea are being scrapped.

The meeting, which was also attended by Chief of Defence Staff Gen Bipin Rawat, concluded that the contracts will now be placed under the Make in India initiative to give a boost to the domestic industry, sources said.

It is not clear under which clause the procurements would proceed but the army has projected an urgent requirement for close quarter carbines and had been processing the deal under a fast track process. As reported by ET, a view within the government was that with recent announcements on Atmanirbhar Bharat, as well as representations from domestic companies promising an equivalent product for sale, the import case needs to be cancelled.

A UAE based arms manufacturer Caracal had been shortlisted to supply 93895 close quarter carbines for the army has written to the defence ministry after it emerged as the lowest bidder for a fast track procurement by the army in 2018.

The case was tricky, given that the Caracal group had not been originally included in the list of companies to which tenders were to be issued in 2018 by the army. It only managed to enter the competition after the Acquisition wing of the Defence Ministry recommended its inclusion. Fed up with delays in the acquisition case that was to be fast tracked, the Army had recommended either the case has to be shut down or should move to the next stage of contract negotiation at the earliest.

The acquisition case for Self Propelled Air Defence Gun Missile System (SPAD-GMS) – the Indian Army wants five regiments of the guns that can be deployed with forward moving forces and can be quickly relocated on the basis of threat perception – has also been cancelled after South Korean company Hanwa’s K 30 Biho was shortlisted by the Army.

The estimated $ 2.5 billion contract for new air defence systems for the Army has been hanging fire since last year after Russia protested that it had been unfairly disqualified from the competition in which the Korean company was shortlisted.

Both the Russian upgraded Tunguska M1 and Pantsir missile systems failed to qualify for the acquisition of 104 system that are needed by the Army, promoting a formal complaint to the Independent Monitors (IMs) set up within the MoD to monitor acquisition cases.

As reported by ET the IMs recommended that the Russians be given another chance to prove the system. This however, was found to be unfair by the acquisition wing that had pointed out that a re-trial opportunity at this late stage would set a dangerous new precedent and would vitiate the principle of a level playing field.

While the recommendation was to expedite the contract negotiation or move for a retrial at the earliest, the contract has now been scrapped keeping in mind new plans under the Make in India initiative.

The two programs would come as a welcome surprise for the Indian industry, particularly the private sector, which has developed capabilities over the past few years to manufacture such systems domestically.
 

Lancer

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Close quarter carbines, Anti Air Systems for Indian Army to be made in India after MoD cancels import. Negotiations with UAE's Caracal, South Korean Hanwa scrapped.
Are they supposed to be made exclusively by local companies from scratch? Or will they be allowed to tie up with foreign companies to locally produce foreign, proven systems (like the Korean K9)?
 

Lancer

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Scrapping of Carcal deal is not good. Altogether it was a good rifle and scrapping of deal will only lead to further delay of may be two years more. Now after two years we will still have a rifle that is equal to carcal quality wise. So whats the point?
I would have never scrapped the Carbine deal.

There are plenty of opportunities for the Gvt to seriously back local companies/products or just loudly boast their credentials while withholding orders - whichever they prefer (where are the LCH's, LCA's and Arjuns?)

But sending troops to war without good guns is like sending them with one hand tied behind their back, or sending them to die. Not much different from sending them to fight without good helmets or BPJ's. Or even like sending fighter pilots out in "Flying Coffin" MiG 21's once upon a time.

They honestly have made a huge mess of the rifle procurement. What they should've done, was either sign a deal for a weapon system/family (one that has multiple variants like assault rifle, marksman rifle, CQB Carbine, LMG etc) to mass produce a single system for all the forces in India - and in the process would've helped us develop a solid weapon production capability.

Or alternatively, they could've picked a single gun for assault rifles, a different but single gun for Carbine etc etc - and just signed deals to buy a % of the order in ready to use condition, and mass produce the rest at home. But here we have a SiG order, a separate AK order where the factory isn't taking off, a separate carbine order that is now scrapped, multiple piecemeal sniper orders and LMG orders. We're all over the place, and we're probably losing money on it too (not to mention time).
 

WolfPack86

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UAE-based Caracal goes for ‘Make in India’ initiative to supply nearly one lakh CAR 816 assault rifles
The UAE-based small arms manufacturer Caracal on Monday stated they are committed to the ‘Make in India initiative to fast-track the supply of 93,895 CAR 816 assault rifles. The company was selected by the Indian Ministry of Defence in 2018 to supply assault rifles to Indian Army.


Caracal stated that they have already identified the required land, facility and local partners to be able to commence production immediately. Over 20 per cent of the components fitted on the CAR 816 are already made in India, with Caracal now making a commitment to fully manufacture the rifles in-country, in alignment with the ‘Make in India’ initiative.


The initiative will also see Caracal oversee technology transfer.


The company stated that they have already surpassed global competitors in terms of performance and technicalities to win the bid two years ago, and now confirms its readiness to service the fast track order from India within 12 months.


Hamad Al Ameri, Chief Executive Officer, Caracal, said: “Caracal was awarded the Close-Quarter Carbine contract in 2018 to supply the Indian Army with the CAR 816, after having undergone a rigorous selection process.”


He further stated that having agreed to fast track the supply, and with the formalities still under discussion, they would like to reiterate their commitment to the ‘Make in India’ initiative.


“With strong bilateral ties between our two nations, and with India being a key market for Caracal, we remain on standby to supply the product to the customer upon instruction.”


The CAR 816 carbines are intended to replace the Indian Army’s current 9mm Sterling carbines, with the CAR 816 boasting higher bullet velocity and reduced weight compared to the Sterling carbines.


The assault rifle has secured a number of contracts from customers across the Middle East, Europe, and Asia, and has been adapted to suit the Indian Army’s needs, incorporating the latest technological advances.


Caracal is part of the missiles and weapons cluster within EDGE, an advanced technology group for defence and beyond, and has wholly-owned subsidiaries in Germany and the US.
 

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