Nag anti-tank Missile

[Chinmoy]

So we don't have Man portable NAG ATGM ...Is it under development or.. ?
And what is the range of Spike missiles that we are buying

We have CLGM for Arjun MBT and as standalone ATGM. Its still under development.

Not sure about the range of SPIKE we would be getting. But its been pitted against JAVELIN system, so it should be anywhere in between 1.5 km to 8 km. We could also go fro SPIKE NLOS too in later phase.

 

[Chinmoy]

Is this man portable?

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.805040

Yes............ It could be dismantled and carried in 3 parts. 1st being the targeting pod. 2nd the missile along with the tube and 3rd the mount, which is optional.

 

[ash2win]

So we don't have Man portable NAG ATGM ...Is it under development or.. ?
And what is the range of Spike missiles that we are buying

Yes we have. Development just started.

 

[Vijyes]

sirjee, SPIKE done deal.
there was a deficit in the operational preparedness of IA around 6 years ago w.r.t ATGM as per the current times.
2.5 years ago deal was finalised.
2 months ago manufacturing plant is also ready to build it in Hyderabad.
if not for useful anywhere else, we will use it for paki bunker busting. that's for sure.

end of story. no point in going back.

NAG can be discussed since it is still in developmental stage.

NAG has been developed. Only user trials are remaining. Developmental trials are over.

I guess, ToT was crucial to fasten things up.


But I was surprised to learn that Spike was tripod launched and not shoulder launched. So, I expressed it here. Anyways, do you know a reason why tripod launched misile is preferred to shoulder launched one? Does India have any shoulder launched ATGM at all?

 

[ezsasa]

NAG has been developed. Only user trials are remaining. Developmental trials are over.

I guess, ToT was crucial to fasten things up.


But I was surprised to learn that Spike was tripod launched and not shoulder launched. So, I expressed it here. Anyways, do you know a reason why tripod launched misile is preferred to shoulder launched one? Does India have any shoulder launched ATGM at all?

Typical answer for some of the questions would be, that is what IA mentioned in GSQR hence the choice of procurement.

for your last question. for bunker Busting and COIN ops, IA uses carl gustav and flamethrower. tank busting is left purely to Milan, Kornet and Konkurs(as per wiki).

 

[Prashant12]

Anti tank missile Nag completes developmental trial, ready for induction


BHUBANESWAR: The third generation ‘fire and forget’ Anti Tank Guided Missile (ATGM) Nag has completed developmental trials paving the way for its induction in the armed forces.

The indigenously developed missile equipped with Imaging Infrared Radar (IIR) seeker was flight tested twice from a range in Rajasthan on Friday and it successfully hit targets under different conditions.

A defence official said the missile completed its developmental trial as its functionality with launcher NAMICA has been established successfully.

“The missile successfully hit the targets on both the occasions under different ranges with very high accuracy as desired by the Armed Forces. Earlier in June it too had successfully demonstrated its capability in the peak of summer,” he said.

Though the missile was to be handed over to Army in June last year, it was deferred due to delay in completion of developmental trials due to some technical reasons.

Nag missile has two variants - land and air launched. While the land variant has a range of upto four km, the air launched version has a range of around eight km.

The missile is equipped with many advanced technologies including the IIR seeker with integrated avionics, a capability possessed by few nations in the world.

Designed to destroy modern main battle tanks and other heavily armoured targets, it incorporates an advanced passive homing guidance system and possesses high single-shot kill probability.

The missile has been developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) under its Integrated Guided Missile Development Program (IGMDP) to support both mechanised infantry and airborne forces of the Indian Army.

The Indian Army has been awaiting the induction of the Nag missile since long. The missile, which is under development since 80s, had failed during user trials by the army personnel from Mahajan firing
range in Rajasthan in 2012. The missile was then fired with the modified launcher NAMICA and achieved success.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...mental-trial-ready-for-induction-1654776.html

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Unless i see its induction under Army`s colour, Won`t celebrate this ..

 

[Why so serious?]

Fire-and-forget missile Prospina set for trials in Pokhran range

• 

Fire & Forget Anti-Tank Guided Missile Prospina, earlier known as Nag.
HIGHLIGHTS

• The Gen-3 Fire and Forget Anti-Tank Guided Missile Prospina earlier known as Nag is back in the desert ranges
• It had successful night trials at a range of four km earlier last year at Mahajan Field Firing Range in Bikaner
• Prospina shall be mounted and transported on a Mechanised Infantry Combat Vehicle

JODHPUR: Inching closer to the induction, the Gen-3 Fire and Forget Anti-Tank Guided Missile Prospina earlier known as Nag is back in the desert ranges of Rajasthan for trials.

Successful trials of the ATGM in June this year, bestowed Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) with the revalidation of the previous trials but also for the final leg of trials here.

What is more commendable is that the missile is being tested for its full four kilometre range. The officials said that if all goes well, the 'User Acceptance Trials' by Army will also be around the corner. At one point of time, it was being touted that the Army might have to induct the missile in its first phase at a reduced range of 3-3.2 km during day time since its earlier Imaging Infrared Seekers were not able to differentiate between the target and surroundings in hot desert temperatures with both reaching the same temperature.

Nag/Prospina has been incorporated with many advanced technologies including the high resolution Imaging Infrared (IIR) Seeker with integrated avionics. The much awaited and the much delayed Prospina Missile had successful night trials at a range of four km earlier last year at Mahajan Field Firing Range in Bikaner.

Highly sensitive detectors or seekers have now been placed on missile tip for sensing heat or infrared signals in three different thermal scenarios including that of a thermal differential within the target, between the target and the background and surrounding temperature variation. Prospina shall be mounted and transported on a Mechanised Infantry Combat Vehicle.. The successful trials in June this year , which reportedly far surpassed all expectations by achieving the target of 4km for both day and night were carried out by a team of scientists of Dr APJ Abdul Kalam Missile Complex at Hyderabad and ARDE and HEMRL at Pune.

Success evaded DRDO for a long time in case of Project Nag, now renamed and launched as 'Prospina', taking this missile out of the cluster of missiles under Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme of (IGMDP) of India. Nag, a baby of Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL) of DRDO, was earlier a part of the Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme of the DRDO launched in 1980s.

 

[sayareakd]

It is not because the seeker is great but NAG is a big missile with higher weight and Greater dia to fit bigger seeker. It is the advantage of size rather than the quality of seeker. I will consider it a success when it gets the order and inducted in army.

Hari ji, all things about NAG was as per GSQR, infact they even mentioned in GSQR that 8 nag on vehicle and 4 inside the vehicle. As told by developers at Defexpo.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Hari ji, all things about NAG was as per GSQR, infact they even mentioned in GSQR that 8 nag on vehicle and 4 inside the vehicle. As told by developers at Defexpo.

Sir these GSQR are very old and probably more than a decade. Spike and kornet has come since then. I believe it has a great score as Chopper fire version in Helina or Prospina avatar. I am not very optimistic for the original role for which it was designed.

 

[PD_Solo]

Nag missile specifications seems to be somewhat less or equal to JAGM.

DRDO can improve Dimensions/range in future.

Development cost for Nag is approx $46.8 million which is very less compared to JAGM budget.If Air/Land launched Nag proves 75% of what it promises it would be a good news as its our very first step in AGM and JAGM is developed on heavy experience of hellfire program and counted as one of the most advanced AGM in making.

 

[Vijyes]

Sir these GSQR are very old and probably more than a decade. Spike and kornet has come since then. I believe it has a great score as Chopper fire version in Helina or Prospina avatar. I am not very optimistic for the original role for which it was designed.

NAG is similar to hellfire missile. Even hellfire can be fired from ground. India always likes to develop 2 in 1 items. India got ToT of spike tripod launched missiles too.

What India lacks is shoulder launched missiles which USA has like SMAW. The disadvantage of that is the range of shoulder launched missiles is just 1km or lower.

Don't compare Nag with shoulder launched or tripod launched missiles. They are just that - indian hellfire. Helina NAG even has 2 way data link to change target mid course.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

What India lacks is shoulder launched missiles which USA has like SMAW. The disadvantage of that is the range of shoulder launched missiles is just 1km or lower.

The shoulder fire version of NAG is under development.

NAG is similar to hellfire missile. Even hellfire can be fired from ground. India always likes to develop 2 in 1 items. India got ToT of spike tripod launched missiles too.

What India lacks is shoulder launched missiles which USA has like SMAW. The disadvantage of that is the range of shoulder launched missiles is just 1km or lower.

Don't compare Nag with shoulder launched or tripod launched missiles. They are just that - indian hellfire. Helina NAG even has 2 way data link to change target mid course.

Where did I compared? I said that Only chopper version has potential to be a version which can be widely used. Kornet, Spike and CLGM has come in last few years which has reduced the utility of NAG to a great extent. Now Army will never purchase them in Big Numbers.

 

[Vijyes]

The shoulder fire version of NAG is under development.


Where did I compared? I said that Only chopper version has potential to be a version which can be widely used. Kornet, Spike and CLGM has come in last few years which has reduced the utility of NAG to a great extent. Now Army will never purchase them in Big Numbers.

The bigger ATGM has huge punch in it. It is a 1 hit kill whereas the lighter versions like spike are less effective against reactive armour

 

[S.Balaji]

The objective of current administration at GOI procuring Foreign platforms is different from the previous dispensation's objectives. I see a lot of heart burn in this forum when ever their is an RFI issued

The objective of procuring a established foreign platform when an indigenous one is underdevelopment is to simply ensure presence of capability in the interim period to dissuade any mis-adventure by neighbors until the indigenous system matures and NOT as many think, a death knell of indigenous system. Eg MBDA Mistral is used in Rudra until Helina matures & Derby is used in Tejas until Astra matures.It does not mean Helina/Astra project will be junked. In fact Astra development has moved to LSP stage with its integration and testing in LCA imminent.

Have a look at procurement numbers it will correlate to WWR ratio for the stated 20 day war. One thing that we forget is India is not basically rich enough to sustain being world's largest weapons importer and current dispensation at the center is in favour for indigenisation of weapon systems.

As against short life of imported system, Indigenous weapons system will be around for atleast half a century (eg C-130,F16, M16) years with continuous improvements churning out different iterations. Simple example is our INSAS which saw service in 1997, it has been 20 years we have seen it go through various iteration 1B1, improved 1B1, Excalibur MK1A, 1B, 1C with the last iteration entering service this week. INSAS has spawned LMG, micro and mini versions also. Dhruv went through various iteration with MK 3 & 4 in production.

Foreign platforms procurement by this current administration is only an interim measure (in case senario's like docklam escalate) as against previous Kangress admin during which procurement was driven to tank their swiss accounts.

 

[S.Balaji]

An old Undated draft tender for contract (Open source doc i found on internet) for testing Nag/Prospina, Helina & MPATGM by Directorate of ATGM DRDL Hyderabad. Development trajectory for all three projects were planned to run parallel.

 

[Chinmoy]

Spike is a 4th Generation missile while Nag is a 3rd generation missile ..............what are the differences between them ? and why we are so outdated ??

SPIKE is a 3rd gen ATGM just like NAG or JAVELIN. Only SPIKE-NLOS is a forth gen ATGM.

Difference between both........
3rd gen. Its based on Lock before shoot principle. The target is locked n before firing the missile. Then there is no need to further guide the missile. In short its fire and forget.
4th gen. Its based on No need to lock before shoot. Means you could fire the missile and later on lock the target. The basic difference is, it had added one more option of Fire, update and forget.

You could see that we are not outdated. Forth gen is not mature enough and work is still in progress.

 

[Chinmoy]

Based on the heavy mount pictured in the Israeli article it would be Spike ER. To go for such a missile is direct competition to Prospina as they would mount them on light vehicles.

Not really in a sense. NAG has been designed form day one as a system which would work from a platform. It means, it is more effective in ATGM role in comparison to any other MANPATGM. It is simply designed to carry out offensive role in battle field unlike SPIKE or JAVELIN.
Now in an advancing column which one is better suited? A NAMICA which could fire 8 ATGM without reload or a mounted SPIKE on other light vehicle which would need reload after each shot?
SPIKE does hold its edge on bunker busting warfare, whereas NAG on NAMICA does hold its edge on open field warfare or raid on marching column. Its all about deployment.

 

[Superdefender]

Not really in a sense. NAG has been designed form day one as a system which would work from a platform. It means, it is more effective in ATGM role in comparison to any other MANPATGM. It is simply designed to carry out offensive role in battle field unlike SPIKE or JAVELIN.
Now in an advancing column which one is better suited? A NAMICA which could fire 8 ATGM without reload or a mounted SPIKE on other light vehicle which would need reload after each shot?
SPIKE does hold its edge on bunker busting warfare, whereas NAG on NAMICA does hold its edge on open field warfare or raid on marching column. Its all about deployment.

Rightly said. Spike and Javelin are defensive in nature in case of armor encirclement. NAMICA and HELINA - both are primarily offensive in nature; means sabotaging frontline armors and moving on.

 

[Vijyes]

Not really in a sense. NAG has been designed form day one as a system which would work from a platform. It means, it is more effective in ATGM role in comparison to any other MANPATGM. It is simply designed to carry out offensive role in battle field unlike SPIKE or JAVELIN.
Now in an advancing column which one is better suited? A NAMICA which could fire 8 ATGM without reload or a mounted SPIKE on other light vehicle which would need reload after each shot?
SPIKE does hold its edge on bunker busting warfare, whereas NAG on NAMICA does hold its edge on open field warfare or raid on marching column. Its all about deployment.

Can you give me more details about NAMICA? Can the entire 20 ton vehicle fire just 8 missiles in total? Or is there a reload option available after 8 missiles are fired?