Nag anti-tank Missile

bennedose

New Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
1,365
Likes
2,169
A stupid Question:

Once Nag hits an target say, does it gurantees full penetration to best of best armour plates ??
Nag is a "top attack missile" and is designed to hit areas on top where the armor plating is thinnest. So if they make tanks heavier and make the access hatch too heavy to be lifted by the men inside, I guess Nag can be rendered useless.
 

bose

New Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2010
Messages
4,921
Likes
5,963
Country flag
Nag is a "top attack missile" and is designed to hit areas on top where the armor plating is thinnest. So if they make tanks heavier and make the access hatch too heavy to be lifted by the men inside, I guess Nag can be rendered useless.
My question was specific to the modern tanks with un manned turrets where the NAG will face stronger top armor plates... Is there any data on Nag's penetration measurements...
 

Bhadra

New Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,756
Country flag
My question was specific to the modern tanks with un manned turrets where the NAG will face stronger top armor plates... Is there any data on Nag's penetration measurements...
Does Pakistan have those tanks ?

If not then you wish to fight NATO ?
 

bose

New Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2010
Messages
4,921
Likes
5,963
Country flag
Does Pakistan have those tanks ?
Nope...

If not then you wish to fight NATO ?
More to know where NAG stands v/s modern day 3rd generation anti tank missile....

NAG have a very good export potential with impressive capabilities...

NAG may face Chineese Tanks in future... although Chinese are not as good a western tanks...
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
It is said 800mm of RHA according to old reports ..

NAG use tandam warhead specifically to defeat ERA ( any kind ), It has a massive warhead comparable to those of Hell fire..

My question was specific to the modern tanks with un manned turrets where the NAG will face stronger top armor plates... Is there any data on Nag's penetration measurements...
 

Twinblade

New Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
1,578
Likes
3,231
Country flag

Bhadra

New Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,756
Country flag
To be fully comparable with hellfire and spike, Nag will need an integrated blast fragmentation sleeve warhead. It works both as an anti armor and anti personnel warhead by having the properties of a tandem warhead as well as a fragmentation warhead.
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2011gunmissile/Tuesday11756_Thomas.pdf
How can a HEAT warhead be fragmentation (blast) warhead also ?? Tandem is another thing but design of the warhead and shell can not be both HEAT as also blast type ??

Can it be ?
 
Last edited:

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
New Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,041
Nag evaluation trials successful

The evaluation trials of Nag, a third-generation fire-and-forget anti-tank guided missile, have been satisfactory and without previous glitches, G Satheesh Reddy, director, Research Centre Imarat (RCI) of the Defence Research & Development Organization (DRDO) said.

The "fairly accurate results" that have finally been achieved by the DRDO have paved the way for the actual trials of Nag early next year.
DRDO is also working on Helina, the helicopter or air launch version of Nag besides aiming at making the future versions of the missile lighter. Once it is developed according to Army specifications, other anti-tank guided missiles being used and procured by India and those existing otherwise shall be no match for Nag.
Source : :: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::
 

Bhadra

New Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,756
Country flag
To be fully comparable with hellfire and spike, Nag will need an integrated blast fragmentation sleeve warhead. It works both as an anti armor and anti personnel warhead by having the properties of a tandem warhead as well as a fragmentation warhead.
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2011gunmissile/Tuesday11756_Thomas.pdf
The presentation says it works against :

Heavy Armor
"¢Reinforced Urban
Structures/Bunkers
"¢Light Armor
Vehicles/Vessels
"¢Armed Personnel


it does not say it is anti personnel. The difference should be understood.
 

Twinblade

New Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
1,578
Likes
3,231
Country flag
How can a HEAT warhead be fragmentation (blast) warhead also ?? Tandem is another thing but design of the warhead and shell can not be both HEAT as also blast type ??

Can it be ?
The presentation says it works against :

Heavy Armor
"¢Reinforced Urban
Structures/Bunkers
"¢Light Armor
Vehicles/Vessels
"¢Armed Personnel


it does not say it is anti personnel. The difference should be understood.
It says right there in your quote, 'armed personnel' :p. Integrated blast fragmentation sleeve warhead works both as a shaped charge as well as a fragmentation warhead, it was specifically designed to cut down multiple warhead inventory of hellfire missiles. I am not sure how it works, probably by using different detonation mechanisms for shaped charge and fragmentation.
 

Bhadra

New Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,756
Country flag
It says right there in your quote, 'armed personnel' :p. Integrated blast fragmentation sleeve warhead works both as a shaped charge as well as a fragmentation warhead, it was specifically designed to cut down multiple warhead inventory of hellfire missiles. I am not sure how it works, probably by using different detonation mechanisms for shaped charge and fragmentation.
It seems there is difference in your and my understanding or "Armed personnel" which seems to donate "Armoured personnel"... like APCs.... or MPVs.
 

arnabmit

Homo Communis Indus
New Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
6,245
Likes
7,531
Country flag
Anti-tank missile project goes phut

SOURCE: DHNS

Huge money wasted; buy from Russia still on, Eleven years after acquiring the Russian technology, India is yet to come up with a fully functional unit to produce adequate quantities of anti-tank missiles, which are capable of piercing protective plates shielding tanks.

Because of the failure of Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL) in supplying these Konkur-M missiles, the Indian Army in January this year had to place an import order of Rs 1,233 crore to procure 10,000 such missiles from Russia.

This, says the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) in its new report tabled in Parliament, defeats the purpose of avoiding dependence on foreign suppliers.

But way back in 2002, Bharat Dynamics Limited had signed a Rs 249-crore agreement with a Russian manufacturer to produce the missiles in the India after assembling a few thousand of them over a period of 15 years.

Between 2003 and 2008, the Army placed five indents to BDL for 28,000 of these missiles.

Till January 2013, BDL supplied only 14,722 missiles, creating a backlog in supply of 13,278 missiles.

Shortage of anti-tank ammunition is one of the issues red-flagged in a letter written by former Army chief Gen V K Singh to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh months before the former retired. Leaking of the letter led to a big controversy.

Failed missiles

BDL had produced a previous generation of Konkur missiles for tanks and armoured vehicles that could not penetrate explosive reactive armour (ERA) plates.

But Konkur-M can defeat these ERA plates, which the Army requires for its mechanised regiments.

The Hyderabad-based defence public sector unit planned to increase its production capacity from 3,000 to 4,500 missiles per year by 2012, and up to 6,000 missiles by 2013. In reality, the capacity was augmented by only 500 missiles per annum till February 2013.

The delay in supply created a capability gap in the Army to fight tanks fitted with ERA panels, thereby impacting its operational preparedness, says CAG in its report.

================================================

What is this article saying?

Nag passed all parameters except seeker in high ambient temp. Recent tests have even corrected that flaw. Now Helina derivative should not be far off.

To add to that CLGM was successful as well, wasn't it? That means SAMHO derivative should not be too far off as well.

@Kunal Biswas @sayareakd
 
Last edited by a moderator:

sayareakd

New Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
17,734
Likes
18,953
Country flag
@arnabmit basically we are screwed up big time, right dont know what left is doing. IA dont want to induct local product, Nag is good example of it. First they make a missile, when the missile is made, carrier is ready all the tests done. Then IA wake up and say carrier is not up to the mark. Then whole circus again. Finally nothing happens. In the end IA will just like in Arjun tank will take token order and order rest of anti tank missile from foreign companies.

mera bharat mahan 100 mein se 99 beimaan
 
Last edited by a moderator:

WMD

New Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
624
Likes
794
Anti-tank missile project goes phut

SOURCE: DHNS

Huge money wasted; buy from Russia still on, Eleven years after acquiring the Russian technology, India is yet to come up with a fully functional unit to produce adequate quantities of anti-tank missiles, which are capable of piercing protective plates shielding tanks.

Because of the failure of Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL) in supplying these Konkur-M missiles, the Indian Army in January this year had to place an import order of Rs 1,233 crore to procure 10,000 such missiles from Russia.

This, says the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) in its new report tabled in Parliament, defeats the purpose of avoiding dependence on foreign suppliers.

But way back in 2002, Bharat Dynamics Limited had signed a Rs 249-crore agreement with a Russian manufacturer to produce the missiles in the India after assembling a few thousand of them over a period of 15 years.

Between 2003 and 2008, the Army placed five indents to BDL for 28,000 of these missiles.

Till January 2013, BDL supplied only 14,722 missiles, creating a backlog in supply of 13,278 missiles.

Shortage of anti-tank ammunition is one of the issues red-flagged in a letter written by former Army chief Gen V K Singh to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh months before the former retired. Leaking of the letter led to a big controversy.

Failed missiles

BDL had produced a previous generation of Konkur missiles for tanks and armoured vehicles that could not penetrate explosive reactive armour (ERA) plates.

But Konkur-M can defeat these ERA plates, which the Army requires for its mechanised regiments.

The Hyderabad-based defence public sector unit planned to increase its production capacity from 3,000 to 4,500 missiles per year by 2012, and up to 6,000 missiles by 2013. In reality, the capacity was augmented by only 500 missiles per annum till February 2013.

The delay in supply created a capability gap in the Army to fight tanks fitted with ERA panels, thereby impacting its operational preparedness, says CAG in its report.

================================================

What is this article saying?

Nag passed all parameters except seeker in high ambient temp. Recent tests have even corrected that flaw. Now Helina derivative should not be far off.

To add to that CLGM was successful as well, wasn't it? That means SAMHO derivative should not be too far off as well.

@Kunal Biswas @sayareakd

Where does the article talks abt Nag or for that matter SAMHO or CLGM??
If I'm not wrong its abt the Konkers ATGMs produced in India under ToT which failed in tests.
This article should be moved to relevant thread, and I don't think this thread is the right one. @Kunal Biswas
 
Last edited by a moderator:

The Last Stand

New Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
1,406
Likes
980
Country flag
It seems there is difference in your and my understanding or "Armed personnel" which seems to donate "Armoured personnel"... like APCs.... or MPVs.
Armed personnel clearly says it all. Personnel with arms. People with weapons. What are you thinking here? Light Armour and Vehicles are already given above. They denote APC, MPV etc.

It is effective against people. Period.
 

Bhadra

New Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,756
Country flag
Armed personnel clearly says it all. Personnel with arms. People with weapons. What are you thinking here? Light Armour and Vehicles are already given above. They denote APC, MPV etc.

It is effective against people. Period.
You mean you kill a fly with a hammer ??

What is the cost of a missile ?

That much for your military knowledge..
 

The Last Stand

New Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
1,406
Likes
980
Country flag
You mean you kill a fly with a hammer ??

What is the cost of a missile ?

That much for your military knowledge..
Your reply is completely out of context. I am not recommending using missiles on people at all. US has different ideas, and their drones carry only Hellfires. I was just saying Hellfire works against people. You reply "You kill fly with a hammer. What is the cost of a missile. Blah Blah. So much for your military knowledge"

Not cool. Seriously.
 

Twinblade

New Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
1,578
Likes
3,231
Country flag
Fresh Nag ATGM trials successful
By SP's Special Correspondent
Photo Credit : SP's Special Correspondent
August 21, 2013:

After major setbacks a year ago, the Nag anti-tank guided missile project has bounced back, with a series of successes at the Mahajan Field Firing Range in Rajasthan in recent trials, where the missile was tested with a new imaging infrared (IIR) seeker of much higher resolution than the earlier one. Sources confirm that the trials were more successful than the earlier one.

The NAMICA Mk.1 (seven have been ordered), tested by the Army between 2007-10, had certain deficiencies while operating in high ambient temperatures. The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is also working on improvement demanded by the Army on the improved NAMICA Mk.2 platform, 200 of which may be purchased if all parameters are met. These improvements include reduction of all-up weight to 15 tonnes, improved reliability of missile launcher platform drive mechanisms, higher-resolution target acquisition sight for the gunner, enhanced user-friendly process in acquisition of target through reduced offset between sight and missile seeker-acquired target scene image, improved amphibious performance, and provision of a target surveillance and acquisition sight for the crew commander.
http://spslandforces.net/exclusive/?id=97&h=Fresh-Nag-ATGM-trials-successful
 

bose

New Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2010
Messages
4,921
Likes
5,963
Country flag
Sources confirm that the trials were more successful than the earlier one.

What does this MORE SUCCESSFULL means ?? It is either success or we need more time to work on it... Ambigious reporting!!
 

Articles

Top