My dear friend Hitler?!

[Shaitan]

That is absolute BS. If Hitler wanted, he could have gassed these Indian POWs who were captured by the Germans. While white British, French, American and Soviet POWs were sent to labour camps, Indians were given political power, means to carry out propaganda thorugh newspapers and radio, money and weapons. Get your facts straight.

Are you that naive to think he gives a shit about Indians or our race? He just gave us guns and helped us fight his own enemy.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" Thats it.

He would have gassed us like the Jews or the Gypsies if we were living in Germany and in large numbers.

 

[Sabir]

If Hitler had shown some generousity towards Indians that is not because he was full in love with Indians, but helping Indians he wanted t whip the British A$$...

 

[pmaitra]

Are you that naive to think he gives a shit about Indians or our race? He just gave us guns and helped us fight his own enemy.

No, I am smart enough to distinguish between a 'white supremacist' like Churchill and an 'Aryan supremacist' like Hitler who was more than happy to ally with non-white Japanese and non-white Indians and bust the bollocks of British Imperialism. I am also smart enough to compare the number of non-whites killed by the Nazis and the number of non-whites killed by the British.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" Thats it.

You just quoted S.C. Bose.

He would have gassed us like the Jews or the Gypsies if we were living in Germany and in large numbers.

The truth is he did not when he had every opportunity.

Talk facts, reality and what happened on the ground, not what 'would have' happened and your conjunctive drivel.

 

[pmaitra]

If Hitler had shown some generousity towards Indians that is not because he was full in love with Indians, but helping Indians he wanted t whip the British A$$...

It was a mutually beneficial situation between Hitler and Bose.

Secondly, Hitler believed that both Germans and Indians were Aryans, but German-Aryans were superior to Indo-Aryans by virtue of their development (read Industrial revolution in Europe) while India remained largely backward during that time and that Indo-Aryans were a mix of Aryans and non-Aryans, ergo, the concept of 'pure-Aryan race.' He had no intention of killing Indians. His intention was to reduce or remove the presence of Jews in Europe, not to go around the whole world killing non-whites. His alliance with the non-white Japanese and supporting their aggression on the mainly white USSR proves a point.

 

[Shaitan]

You just quoted S.C. Bose.

The quote is a lot older then Bose.

The truth is he did not when he had every opportunity.

Talk facts, reality and what happened on the ground, not what 'would have' happened and your conjunctive drivel.

The truth is if Indians were a sizable community like the Jews and Gypsies living in Germany. We would have been gassed for sure.

Hitlers killed every one in his empire that wasn't in his idea "Aryan"(Germanic basically). Including the Homosexuals because they cant breed, and the disabled people.. And of cause the Jews and the Gypsies.(who are linked to India themselves).. All these people don't fit his bill of an Aryan race.


He would have done the same to the Indians if lets say we replace the Gypsies with Indians.

Secondly, Hitler believed that both Germans and Indians were Aryans, but German-Aryans were superior to Indo-Aryans by virtue of their development (read Industrial revolution in Europe) while India remained largely backward during that time and that Indo-Aryans were a mix of Aryans and non-Aryans, ergo, the concept of 'pure-Aryan race.' He had no intention of killing Indians. His intention was to reduce or remove the presence of Jews in Europe, not to go around the whole world killing non-whites. His alliance with the non-white Japanese and supporting their aggression on the mainly white USSR proves a point.

Well of course, but if we Indian were a sizable community in Germany, we would have been gassed too.

 

[JayATL]

are we justifying Bose the despicable Hitler lover in this thread? ... I'm coming in late. I as a Bengali was always brainwashed about that man, till I read the true accounts of his Hitler allegiance, his anti Indian ( egoistical) gamemanship...

are we arguing here that Hitler not subjecting Indians to the same standards ( false notion) somehow absolves us of being disgusted that Bose chose the evil ( grand master of it) to ally with?

 

[pmaitra]

are we justifying Bose the despicable Hitler lover in this thread? ... I'm coming in late. I as a Bengali was always brainwashed about that man, till I read the true accounts of his Hitler allegiance, his anti Indian ( egoistical) gamemanship...

are we arguing here that Hitler not subjecting Indians to the same standards ( false notion) somehow absolves us of being disgusted that Bose chose the evil ( grand master of it) to ally with?

Bose chose the better of the two evils. He did good. Nazis were bad, the British Empire far worse. That is my point.

If there are two rabid dogs, and one dog is attacking me and the other attacking my attacker, I will feed the one that is attacking my attacker, regardless of the fact that both are mad dogs.

 

[civfanatic]

While millions of Jews died in Europe at the hands of the Nazis, some 4 million Indians in Bengal died due to food confiscation by the British.

But no one ever talks about that, because Winston Churchill is an "immortal hero and saviour of democracy".

 

[pmaitra]

The quote is a lot older then Bose.

Chanakya perhaps? However, Bose did say that, didn't he?

The truth is if Indians were a sizable community like the Jews and Gypsies living in Germany. We would have been gassed for sure.

Bad choice of word my dear Sir. That is not the truth, that is speculation.

If the non-white Indians chose to ally with the Nazis like the non-white Japanese, I am not sure if Hitler would have gassed the Indians.

Hitlers killed every one in his empire that wasn't in his idea "Aryan"(Germanic basically). Including the Homosexuals because they cant breed, and the disabled people.. And of cause the Jews and the Gypsies.(who are linked to India themselves).. All these people don't fit his bill of an Aryan race.

Hitler also killed millions of white Europeans, including tall, blonde and blue eyed people, who perfectly fit his definition of the 'pure-Aryan race.' Russia alone contributes 26 million of these victims, only a minority of whom were non-whites from the Central Asian and Caucasian republics. Let me know if you disagree.

He would have done the same to the Indians if lets say we replace the Gypsies with Indians.

Conjunctive ... and repetitive.

Well of course, but if we Indian were a sizable community in Germany, we would have been gassed too.

Innocent until proven guilty.

It is proven, hence, Hitler is indeed guilty of mass murder of Jews. Regarding Indians, it is unproven. Au contraire, it is proven he did help Indians, that too, in a fight against another white European Empire, called the British Empire.

 

[pmaitra]

While millions of Jews died in Europe at the hands of the Nazis, some 4 million Indians in Bengal died due to food confiscation by the British.

But no one ever talks about that, because Winston Churchill is an "immortal hero and saviour of democracy".

Well said CivFanatic.

Pre EIC (East India Company), there were no major famines in India.
Post Independence from British Empire, there were no major famines in India.
All the famines happened during EIC rule or the successor British Indian Empire. The collective count, including famines and the First War of Independence goes well beyond 20 million. Hitler was a kid in front of the evil Brits.

After all, winners get to write history and feed the blind sheep who can count, but yet, won't.

The British Empire was also accused of causing a famine in Ireland. No wonder the Irish and Germans wanted to help Indians even before Hitler arrived in the scene. See links below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu–German_Conspiracy

 

[JayATL]

Bose chose the better of the two evils. He did good. Nazis were bad, the British Empire far worse. That is my point.

If there are two rabid dogs, and one dog is attacking me and the other attacking my attacker, I will feed the one that is attacking my attacker, regardless of the fact that both are mad dogs.

baloney!~ You never have to ally yourself with evil of such extent that world has never seen one come close it_ to reach your objective. Your logic would then help Pakistanis justify supporting terror groups and we should not hear a peep from you about them. For in their eyes we are that rabid dog and the terrorist are other rabid dogs that serve their purpose.

Bose is a disgrace , a egotistical maniac that for self egotistical purposes was blinded to bring shame upon Indians by allying with the NAZIS. There is no justification to ally with a genocidal maniac for any reason , period.

 

[pmaitra]

baloney!~ You never have to ally yourself with evil of such extent that world has never seen one come close it_ to reach your objective. Your logic would then help Pakistanis justify supporting terror groups and we should not hear a peep from you about them. For in their eyes we are that rabid dog and the terrorist are other rabid dogs that serve their purpose.

Bose is a disgrace , a egotistical maniac that for self egotistical purposes was blinded to bring shame upon Indians by allying with the NAZIS. There is no justification to ally with a genocidal maniac for any reason , period.

You have never seen does not mean the world has never seen.

There were many genocides that I can list:

1. Genocide of Armenians by the Ottoman Empire.
2. Genocide of Jews by Nazis.
3. Atomic bomb attack on Hiroshima and Nagasaki by the USA.
4. Stalin's purges.
5. East Pakistan by Pakistan and supported by Nixon.
6. Former Yugoslavia.

This list is in-exhaustive and I have already spoken about the British Empire that was far worse than the Nazis.

It is your choice if you want to single out one mass murderer when there are plenty around there.

Also, Bose is not a disgrace, he is our pride and you can be born seven times yet will not achieve whatever he has achieved. He does not need your approval to be worshiped by millions of Indians. Pardon my French, but I am ashamed that we share a common heritage, even if it is only in genes. Bose did not bring shame upon Indians, you bring shame upon Indians by your ignorant comments.

 

[JayATL]

You have never seen does not mean the world has never seen.

There were many genocides that I can list:

1. Genocide of Armenians by the Ottoman Empire.
2. Genocide of Jews by Nazis.
3. Atomic bomb attack on Hiroshima and Nagasaki by the USA.
4. Stalin's purges.
5. East Pakistan by Pakistan and supported by Nixon.
6. Former Yugoslavia.

This list is in-exhaustive and I have already spoken about the British Empire that was far worse than the Nazis.

It is your choice if you want to single out one mass murderer when there are plenty around there.

Also, Bose is not a disgrace, he is our pride and you can be born seven times yet will not achieve whatever he has achieved. He does not need your approval to be worshiped by millions of Indians. Pardon my French, but I am ashamed that we share a common heritage, but only in genes. Bose did not bring shame upon Indians, you bring shame upon Indians by your ignorant comments.

If I bring shame then I wear it with pride- because there are far more Gandhian principle following Indians than those who follow that nut job Bose.

although I don't subscribe to all of Gandhi's school of thought - I know damn well, supporting Nazi's is w/ a small minority ( indian included)... and US bomb drop was not genocide. It war between two nations, one that attacked first and hundreds of thousands died and perhaps millions would have before a bomb stoped it all... if it was genocide it would have been called one in the world's courts- for that matter Japan is a US ally which puts your inclusion of the US in the ' bs' category...

 

[Shaitan]

While millions of Jews died in Europe at the hands of the Nazis, some 4 million Indians in Bengal died due to food confiscation by the British.

But no one ever talks about that, because Winston Churchill is an "immortal hero and saviour of democracy".

People should talk about that, also the Nanjing massacre.. Also the Belgium empires role in the Rwandan Genocide too. All these Colonial Europeans were racist and divided people.

It is proven, hence, Hitler is indeed guilty of mass murder of Jews. Regarding Indians, it is unproven. Au contraire, it is proven he did help Indians, that too, in a fight against another white European Empire, called the British Empire.

Ya, he loved Indians a lot didn't he? If India wasn't valuable to his enemy you think he would support our independence or care about it?? Of course not, don't be so naive.

Hitler also killed millions of white Europeans, including tall, blonde and blue eyed people, who perfectly fit his definition of the 'pure-Aryan race.' Russia alone contributes 26 million of these victims, only a minority of whom were non-whites from the Central Asian and Caucasian republics. Let me know if you disagree.

Because they were the enemy, what are you supposed to other then kill them?? You think the Soviets would hesitant?

His Master race, Aryan race idea is basically the Germanic race. It's just German nationalism. It has nothing to do with "Aryan", "Arya", etc from the Middle East and South Asia like it originally is. Its all German nationalism. What he and his followers was doing was nation building with all this Aryan race crap.



And here is a fact(twist in a way). He did kill millions of Indians in the form of Gypsies, who can trace their ancestry back to INDIA!

 

[pmaitra]

If I bring shame then I wear it with pride- because there are far more Gandhian principle following Indians than those who follow that nut job Bose.

Your pride is not even worthy of contempt. Wear whatever you please.

although I don't subscribe to all of Gandhi's school of thought - I know damn well, supporting Nazi's is w/ a small minority ( indian included)...

You are not capable of thinking beyond history written by the winners of WWII.

and US bomb drop was not genocide.

Had the Axis powers won after the atomic bomb attacks, many Americans probably would have been tried for genocide and then executed in front of a firing squad. However, that did not happen.

It war between two nations, one that attacked first and hundreds of thousands died and perhaps millions would have before a bomb stoped it all...

Japan was already negotiating surrender. The Atomic bomb was intended for a different audience (Stalin). Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a genocide that happened, is happening and will happen for generations, thanks to radioactivity. Hitler's gas chambers had a far less temporal effect.

if it was genocide it would have been called one in the world's courts- for that matter Japan is a US ally which puts your inclusion of the US in the ' bs' category...

Yeah, try dragging Nixon to court for genocide of 3 million Bengalis (1971-72), for a Bengali you claim to be, especially the one whose heart cries out for 6 million Jews (whose deaths I personally regret and hold the Nazis guilty for). Bengali you are indeed, but a shameless one.

 

[pmaitra]

Ya, he loved Indians a lot didn't he? If India wasn't valuable to his enemy you think he would support our independence or care about it?? Of course not, don't be so naive.

Never said he loved Indians, or have I? I said he helped Indians. Do you have a difficulty reading English or is it your habit to twist and deliberately misrepresent statements made by others?

Because they were the enemy, what are you supposed to other then kill them?? You think the Soviets would hesitant?

Answer my question first. I asked you one question: "Hitler also killed millions of white Europeans, including tall, blonde and blue eyed people, who perfectly fit his definition of the 'pure-Aryan race.' Russia alone contributes 26 million of these victims, only a minority of whom were non-whites from the Central Asian and Caucasian republics. Let me know if you disagree." Answer this question instead of posting a counter question. Once you do, you may hope I will respond to your further questions.

His Master race, Aryan race idea is basically the Germanic race. It's just German nationalism. It has nothing to do with "Aryan", "Arya", etc from the Middle East and South Asia like it originally is. Its all German nationalism. What he and his followers was doing was nation building with all this Aryan race crap.

Yes, it is German nationalism. It has nothing to do with "Aryan" as in the true Sanskrit definition; and your point is?

And here is a fact(twist in a way). He did kill millions of Indians in the form of Gypsies, who can trace their ancestry back to INDIA!

He killed many Gypsies, but many many many more whites; and provided funds, political backing, weapons to dark skinned Indian POWs. Hitler did many things. Do you see all the things that Hitler did or only a few? If so, then you are suffering from tunnel-vision.

 

[JayATL]

^^^^ blah blah and more blah--- fact still stands- you sound no less than than those Pakistanis bozos and mullah's who subscribe to supporting anyone to support their version of rabid thoughts, actions and deeds in the name of their independence struggle - independence from civilized nation's, people, to support their dreams of a caliphate. this blame Nixon for Bengali's is a hoot, I'll give you that--- its like deja vu from Pakistani forums - only difference is, it's Indian this time- with warped sense of history and blame.

have a nice day...

 

[pmaitra]

^^^^ blah blah and more blah--- fact still stands- you sound no less than than those Pakistanis bozos and mullah's who subscribe to supporting anyone to support their version of rabid thoughts, actions and deeds in the name of their independence struggle - independence from civilized nation's, people, to support their dreams of a caliphate. this blame Nixon for Bengali's is a hoot, I'll give you that--- its like deja vu from Pakistani forums - only difference is, it's Indian this time- with warped sense of history and blame.

have a nice day...

You too Jay! Hope the Georgian heat will not get the better of you! Its pretty nice out here in North Carolina, a state of predominantly Scotch-Irish and German settlers. I'm glad I am making some objective statements. Think about what I said over a glass of red.

 

[Shaitan]

Hitler also killed millions of white Europeans, including tall, blonde and blue eyed people, who perfectly fit his definition of the 'pure-Aryan race.' Russia alone contributes 26 million of these victims, only a minority of whom were non-whites from the Central Asian and Caucasian republics. Let me know if you disagree.

He killed many Gypsies, but many many many more whites, or am I wrong?

Yes, he did kill white people who was trying to attack his own empire. And the Jewish are themselves white. Its not about the whole white race he was trying to rally, but the Germanic race. Not the Slavs(Soviets), Not the Irish, English, Scottish ,etc (Britions), not the Poles, etc.


It was the broken and disunited German people he was rallying, NOT the whole white race.

The Aryan race/Master race etc is all nation building to unite the Germanic people who was broken.

 

[pmaitra]

Yes, he did kill white people who was trying to attack his own empire. And the Jewish are themselves white. Its not about the whole white race he was trying to rally, but the Germanic race. Not the Slavs(Soviets), Not the Irish, English, Scottish ,etc (Britions), not the Poles, etc.


It was the broken and disunited German people he was rallying, NOT the whole white race.

The Aryan race/Master race etc is all nation building to unite the Germanic people who was broken.

Thank you for your response. Here's mine:

Because they were the enemy, what are you supposed to other then kill them?? You think the Soviets would hesitant?

Correct. Enemy is an enemy and ally is an ally. Hence, Hitler had no problem with non-white Japanese or non-white Indians as allies but had a problem with white Jews, white Russians, white English et al. So it is not as simple as merely a race-conflict as it is made out to be. It is much more beyond that.