Bhadra
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Short intensive and technology driven wars are the norm of the day. Chinese or Indians can not afford to indulge in long drawn out wars !
Mountain Strike Corps - 17
- Thread starter Yusuf
- Start date
LalTopi
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Afghanistan.
Bhadra
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who is going to give you 30 days time...
everything will be over by then....
Decklander
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Please understand that in those thirty days a victor will have his lines of communication extended to breaking point for such rapid progress and a triple sized counter attack will kill all its strike forces and lay bare his borders for take over.
In war, more than attack, you need to have forces to hold on to the land captured.
p2prada
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The once based over Urban are doubtful as original tibatians are cornered and slowly replaced by Chinese population..
Rural once are fine as they are still mostly intact and not intervene by mainland refuge population ..
Rural once are fine as they are still mostly intact and not intervene by mainland refuge population ..
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True, But what most think is less important over those terrains..
What is truly useful in these areas >>
1. Precision GPS guided ammo, Air-fuel explosive Ammunition for 120mm Mortar..
2. Strong c4isr in the area..
3. Underground Bunkers to live under heavy shelling, Heavy fortifications with large supplies of food and Ammo..
4. Micro UAV..
5. INSAS with Reflex sight and DMR scopes for individual soilders..
^^^^
Covering these >>
1. Long range Arty..
2. Indian Air Force dedicated CAS group..
3. Prahaar Quick reaction tactical BM..
4. Brahmos Cruise Missiles..
5. Gunships for CAS from Army & IAF
================
================
Big Items comes latter, Small Item make big difference..
What is truly useful in these areas >>
1. Precision GPS guided ammo, Air-fuel explosive Ammunition for 120mm Mortar..
2. Strong c4isr in the area..
3. Underground Bunkers to live under heavy shelling, Heavy fortifications with large supplies of food and Ammo..
4. Micro UAV..
5. INSAS with Reflex sight and DMR scopes for individual soilders..
^^^^
Covering these >>
1. Long range Arty..
2. Indian Air Force dedicated CAS group..
3. Prahaar Quick reaction tactical BM..
4. Brahmos Cruise Missiles..
5. Gunships for CAS from Army & IAF
================
================
Big Items comes latter, Small Item make big difference..
LalTopi
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Thank you. FT is a paid for newspaper/service and it is good to know that they used a reliable source. I saw the article in the morning middle eastern time and was quite taken aback when nothing was posted on DFI when I got back home late afternoon. Hence I posted. Indian media may be vocal but apparently not particularly timely when it comes to reporting significant changes in events.
LETHALFORCE
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The terrain would draw out any conflict.
Dinesh_Kumar
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With typical Indian Planning, leadership and resource crunch, it will be interesting to see how MSC will finally look like. Instead following actions could have been done:
> Convert 1Divison to Strike role (with Integral Para Brigade)
> Division GOC has own Mi-17 chopper (existing, no new purchase)
> 1 Battery of 155mm Guns (redistributed from existing)
> Armoured Brigade with BMPs and Tank Killer capability (maybe some purchases for this)
> APCs to move the Divsion
> Liason Office with Air Force for Air Lift Capability
> Use of 6 WSI Dhruv / Rudra attack helos (redistributed from Army Aviation)
> Improvements at Unit , Squad and Company Level as already suggested since time immemorial - leadership training and commando course, sat radios, NG, etc.
Would be cheaper and quicker, less purchases, only juggling of same budget resources. Other Divisions can take the lessons learnt and themselves evolve.
> Convert 1Divison to Strike role (with Integral Para Brigade)
> Division GOC has own Mi-17 chopper (existing, no new purchase)
> 1 Battery of 155mm Guns (redistributed from existing)
> Armoured Brigade with BMPs and Tank Killer capability (maybe some purchases for this)
> APCs to move the Divsion
> Liason Office with Air Force for Air Lift Capability
> Use of 6 WSI Dhruv / Rudra attack helos (redistributed from Army Aviation)
> Improvements at Unit , Squad and Company Level as already suggested since time immemorial - leadership training and commando course, sat radios, NG, etc.
Would be cheaper and quicker, less purchases, only juggling of same budget resources. Other Divisions can take the lessons learnt and themselves evolve.
sasi
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So it's going to be 17 Mountain Corps?
http://nitinagokhale.blogspot.in/2013/11/so-its-going-to-be-17-mountain-corps.html
Earlier this week Indian Army's top brass, comprising the Army Chief, the Vice Chief and the 7 Army Commanders, met to clear the promotion of nearly two dozen Major General rank officers to Lt. Generals. One of these to be promoted officers--the names of those approved for the next rank should become public in less than a month's time--will have the honour to raise and head India's 1st dedicated Mountain Strike Corps, to be most probably numbered 17, cleared by the government in July.
South Block, the British time building that houses among others the Army Headquarters, is right now in the middle of fine tuning the contours of the formation to be reportedly based at Ranchi in Jharkhand.
Top sources say while Panagarh in West Bengal will witness the raising of two new Mountain Divisions, the location for the third is in the final stages of discussion. All the three new divisions will eventually come under the new 17 Corps to be based in Ranchi. Significantly, Army Chief Gen Bikram Singh was in Ranchi over the last two days, ostensibly to pay a visit to the 23 Division based there. So what will it be called? 17 Corps? Or 17 Mountain Corps? I am yet to get a clarity on this though surely Army HQ has already thought about it or even finalised it.
India already has 13 full-fledged Corps. Three of them, the Bhopal-based 21 Corps, Mathura-headquartered 1 Corps and 2 Corps, located at Ambala, are designated as Strike Corps. But all of them are tasked for an offensive against Pakistan. The 17 Corps--as a dedicated Mountain Strike Corps--will specifically provide an offensive option against China if required.
The budget of Rs 64,000 crore for the new corps is to be spent over seven years –- which is just as well since raising new formations as large as a Corps is not an easy task. It is further difficult to make that formation capable of mountain warfare. For mountains gobble up troops; they take a heavy toll on man and machine.
The decision on 17 July was somewhat reminiscent of a similar choice exercised by the UPA government almost over four years ago.
The then outgoing UPA-I government's Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) was meeting for the last time before the results of the 2009 general elections were to be announced. The sole item on the agenda: Enhancing India's military preparedness against China.
According to insiders present at that meeting, some of the members of the CCS wanted to leave the decision to the next government but better sense prevailed and days before Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's first UPA government went ahead and sanctioned raising of two new Mountain Divisions for deployment in India's north eastern State of Arunachal Pradesh, an area claimed by China as South Tibet. In addition, the Indian Air Force was given the go ahead to reactivate half a dozen Advance Landing Grounds (ALGs) spread all along the Arunachal-Tibet portion of the Line of Actual Control (LAC) between the two countries and base additional squadrons of Sukhoi-30 combat jets in Assam.
The goal was to plug existing gaps in India's preparedness along the Arunachal Pradesh-China frontier. The two new divisions were to include a squadron of India's armoured spearhead—Soviet-built T-90 tanks--and a regiment of artillery.
Now four years later, the two mountain divisions have completed their recruitment, equipping and orbatting in the North-east. One of them--the 56 Mountain Division--after being raised in Nagaland's Zakhama area has been placed at Lekhabali, north of the Brahmaputra adding teeth to Indian Army's presence in East and Central Arunachal Pradesh. The other new Division--71--headquartered at Missamari in the plains of Assam, will enhance troop deployment beyond Tawang in West Arunachal Pradesh in addition to the 5 Mountain Division already stationed at Tenga.
The new mountain corps will require light artillery which can be easily transported, even airlifted in the highest mountains. Given India's painfully-slow process of weapons acquisition, empowering the Mountain Strike Corps quickly will be a big challenge.
It is all the more necessary for the government to walk the talk in making the new formation a reality by adhering to timelines.
Thankfully, both in Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh on the frontier with China, India's strategic planners have started to make amends for decades of lethargy and apathy.
http://nitinagokhale.blogspot.in/2013/11/so-its-going-to-be-17-mountain-corps.html
Earlier this week Indian Army's top brass, comprising the Army Chief, the Vice Chief and the 7 Army Commanders, met to clear the promotion of nearly two dozen Major General rank officers to Lt. Generals. One of these to be promoted officers--the names of those approved for the next rank should become public in less than a month's time--will have the honour to raise and head India's 1st dedicated Mountain Strike Corps, to be most probably numbered 17, cleared by the government in July.
South Block, the British time building that houses among others the Army Headquarters, is right now in the middle of fine tuning the contours of the formation to be reportedly based at Ranchi in Jharkhand.
Top sources say while Panagarh in West Bengal will witness the raising of two new Mountain Divisions, the location for the third is in the final stages of discussion. All the three new divisions will eventually come under the new 17 Corps to be based in Ranchi. Significantly, Army Chief Gen Bikram Singh was in Ranchi over the last two days, ostensibly to pay a visit to the 23 Division based there. So what will it be called? 17 Corps? Or 17 Mountain Corps? I am yet to get a clarity on this though surely Army HQ has already thought about it or even finalised it.
India already has 13 full-fledged Corps. Three of them, the Bhopal-based 21 Corps, Mathura-headquartered 1 Corps and 2 Corps, located at Ambala, are designated as Strike Corps. But all of them are tasked for an offensive against Pakistan. The 17 Corps--as a dedicated Mountain Strike Corps--will specifically provide an offensive option against China if required.
The budget of Rs 64,000 crore for the new corps is to be spent over seven years –- which is just as well since raising new formations as large as a Corps is not an easy task. It is further difficult to make that formation capable of mountain warfare. For mountains gobble up troops; they take a heavy toll on man and machine.
The decision on 17 July was somewhat reminiscent of a similar choice exercised by the UPA government almost over four years ago.
The then outgoing UPA-I government's Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) was meeting for the last time before the results of the 2009 general elections were to be announced. The sole item on the agenda: Enhancing India's military preparedness against China.
According to insiders present at that meeting, some of the members of the CCS wanted to leave the decision to the next government but better sense prevailed and days before Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's first UPA government went ahead and sanctioned raising of two new Mountain Divisions for deployment in India's north eastern State of Arunachal Pradesh, an area claimed by China as South Tibet. In addition, the Indian Air Force was given the go ahead to reactivate half a dozen Advance Landing Grounds (ALGs) spread all along the Arunachal-Tibet portion of the Line of Actual Control (LAC) between the two countries and base additional squadrons of Sukhoi-30 combat jets in Assam.
The goal was to plug existing gaps in India's preparedness along the Arunachal Pradesh-China frontier. The two new divisions were to include a squadron of India's armoured spearhead—Soviet-built T-90 tanks--and a regiment of artillery.
Now four years later, the two mountain divisions have completed their recruitment, equipping and orbatting in the North-east. One of them--the 56 Mountain Division--after being raised in Nagaland's Zakhama area has been placed at Lekhabali, north of the Brahmaputra adding teeth to Indian Army's presence in East and Central Arunachal Pradesh. The other new Division--71--headquartered at Missamari in the plains of Assam, will enhance troop deployment beyond Tawang in West Arunachal Pradesh in addition to the 5 Mountain Division already stationed at Tenga.
The new mountain corps will require light artillery which can be easily transported, even airlifted in the highest mountains. Given India's painfully-slow process of weapons acquisition, empowering the Mountain Strike Corps quickly will be a big challenge.
It is all the more necessary for the government to walk the talk in making the new formation a reality by adhering to timelines.
Thankfully, both in Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh on the frontier with China, India's strategic planners have started to make amends for decades of lethargy and apathy.
sasi
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Re: So it's going to be 17 Mountain Corps?
China watchers will recall that it was in 2006 that the Cabinet Committee on Security(CCS), which takes the final decision on India's security matters had decided to reverse the decades old policy of NOT building infrastructure in the border areas, lest the Chinese get easier access to Indian areas in the event of a skirmish!
The late realisation and start to improve infrastructure--both military and civil--in these remote areas however means that at least for decade, India's military preparedness there will remain tenuous.
Over the past one year, having travelled to both Arunachal Pradesh and Ladakh, I am convinced that India has the right intention but somehow lacks the means to get its act together in building and improving infrastructure. There are multiple agencies involved in planning and giving clearances for border projects. Although the Border Roads Organisation (BRO) is primarily responsible for road and bridge building in these areas, it is hampered by a number of shortcomings. Having told the BRO to construct 73 strategic Roads in 2006, it was expected that these roads will be ready by its original deadline of 2012. Unfortunately on a fraction of the work has been completed
As a quasi-military organization the BRO is entrusted with building and maintaining these strategic roads and come rain or winter, its labourers work to keep the only road link to Tawang in Arunachal Prdaesh open through the year but at the moment they are fighting a losing battle, as I saw during my travel there. The fault lies not with them but with people higher up who planned the widening of the only road without building an alternative.
Constant landslips, frequent blockades are a recurring challenge. But landslides apart , BRO officials told me that they are plagued by a shortage of labour in this sector. Earlier, large groups from Jharkhand and Bihar made their way to these parts. No longer, since now plenty of work is available in their home states. Excruciatingly slow environmental clearances both by the central and state governments add to the delays. In Arunachal Pradesh, nearly five months of Monsoon followed by a couple of months of intense cold and snowfall means, the working season is limited to less than six months.
In Ladakh too, the situation is no different. Snow and severe winter leaves the road and infrastructure builders just about six months of work time through the year. But as state government officials in a remote sub-division like Nyoma in south eastern Ladakh told me last fortnight the clearances have started flowing in faster than before.The road from Upshi to Demchok for instance is currently witnessing intense broadening and improvement work. Demchok is the place where maximum face offs have occurred between Indian Army and Chinese PLA patrols. The Indus also enters India at this extreme south-east corner of Ladakh.
India owes it to its own forces to put in place better infrastructurealong the China frontier and provide border guarding forces like the ITBP better facilities than the current ones. Although there is clamour to entrust the India-China border fully to the Army or bring the ITBP fully under the Army's control, so long as the ITBP is deployed on the front line, it deserves better treatment.
Similarly, the Centre and the State government must go the extra distance to support the nomadic tribes that live along the remote Ladakh frontier. The further these grazers keep going in search of pasteur for their cattle, the better it is for Indian authorities to lay a claim on the undemarcated borders. These nomads should get full material help in their quest for a better life and access to more grazing land in the border areas.
We all recognise that 2013 is not 1962.
India's military capability is far far better than it was then; And finally there is too much at stake for Beijing to launch any overt aggression.
But as I wrote earlier, what has not changed is the Chinese tendency of bullying weaker neighbours and its policy to keep redefining 'core' interests according to circumstances. Policy making in China is one continuous process. In India on the other hand, it varies according to personalities and political parties in power. While the military in India has overcome the trauma of the 1962 defeat, civilian policy makers appear to be still bogged down by the burdens of the past in dealing with China.
Policy makers in India must be mindful of the fact that military preparedness and trying to improve diplomatic relations are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
Following is the list of India's Corps with their locations:
1 Corps--Mathura
2 Corps--Ambala
3 Corps--Rangapahar (Dimapur)
4 Corps--Tezpur
9 Corps-Yol
10 Corps--Bhatinda
11 Corps-Jalandhar
12 Corps--Jodhpur
14 Corps--Leh
15 Corps--Srinagar
16 Corps--Nagrota
21 Corps--Bhopal
33 Corps--Sukna (Siliguri).
/
China watchers will recall that it was in 2006 that the Cabinet Committee on Security(CCS), which takes the final decision on India's security matters had decided to reverse the decades old policy of NOT building infrastructure in the border areas, lest the Chinese get easier access to Indian areas in the event of a skirmish!
The late realisation and start to improve infrastructure--both military and civil--in these remote areas however means that at least for decade, India's military preparedness there will remain tenuous.
Over the past one year, having travelled to both Arunachal Pradesh and Ladakh, I am convinced that India has the right intention but somehow lacks the means to get its act together in building and improving infrastructure. There are multiple agencies involved in planning and giving clearances for border projects. Although the Border Roads Organisation (BRO) is primarily responsible for road and bridge building in these areas, it is hampered by a number of shortcomings. Having told the BRO to construct 73 strategic Roads in 2006, it was expected that these roads will be ready by its original deadline of 2012. Unfortunately on a fraction of the work has been completed
As a quasi-military organization the BRO is entrusted with building and maintaining these strategic roads and come rain or winter, its labourers work to keep the only road link to Tawang in Arunachal Prdaesh open through the year but at the moment they are fighting a losing battle, as I saw during my travel there. The fault lies not with them but with people higher up who planned the widening of the only road without building an alternative.
Constant landslips, frequent blockades are a recurring challenge. But landslides apart , BRO officials told me that they are plagued by a shortage of labour in this sector. Earlier, large groups from Jharkhand and Bihar made their way to these parts. No longer, since now plenty of work is available in their home states. Excruciatingly slow environmental clearances both by the central and state governments add to the delays. In Arunachal Pradesh, nearly five months of Monsoon followed by a couple of months of intense cold and snowfall means, the working season is limited to less than six months.
In Ladakh too, the situation is no different. Snow and severe winter leaves the road and infrastructure builders just about six months of work time through the year. But as state government officials in a remote sub-division like Nyoma in south eastern Ladakh told me last fortnight the clearances have started flowing in faster than before.The road from Upshi to Demchok for instance is currently witnessing intense broadening and improvement work. Demchok is the place where maximum face offs have occurred between Indian Army and Chinese PLA patrols. The Indus also enters India at this extreme south-east corner of Ladakh.
India owes it to its own forces to put in place better infrastructurealong the China frontier and provide border guarding forces like the ITBP better facilities than the current ones. Although there is clamour to entrust the India-China border fully to the Army or bring the ITBP fully under the Army's control, so long as the ITBP is deployed on the front line, it deserves better treatment.
Similarly, the Centre and the State government must go the extra distance to support the nomadic tribes that live along the remote Ladakh frontier. The further these grazers keep going in search of pasteur for their cattle, the better it is for Indian authorities to lay a claim on the undemarcated borders. These nomads should get full material help in their quest for a better life and access to more grazing land in the border areas.
We all recognise that 2013 is not 1962.
India's military capability is far far better than it was then; And finally there is too much at stake for Beijing to launch any overt aggression.
But as I wrote earlier, what has not changed is the Chinese tendency of bullying weaker neighbours and its policy to keep redefining 'core' interests according to circumstances. Policy making in China is one continuous process. In India on the other hand, it varies according to personalities and political parties in power. While the military in India has overcome the trauma of the 1962 defeat, civilian policy makers appear to be still bogged down by the burdens of the past in dealing with China.
Policy makers in India must be mindful of the fact that military preparedness and trying to improve diplomatic relations are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
Following is the list of India's Corps with their locations:
1 Corps--Mathura
2 Corps--Ambala
3 Corps--Rangapahar (Dimapur)
4 Corps--Tezpur
9 Corps-Yol
10 Corps--Bhatinda
11 Corps-Jalandhar
12 Corps--Jodhpur
14 Corps--Leh
15 Corps--Srinagar
16 Corps--Nagrota
21 Corps--Bhopal
33 Corps--Sukna (Siliguri).
/
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Re: So it's going to be 17 Mountain Corps?
HQ is were the administration work is done, which needs to be away from the line of fire. Troops does not stay there. Troops are deployed in forward areas of operation.
HQ is were the administration work is done, which needs to be away from the line of fire. Troops does not stay there. Troops are deployed in forward areas of operation.
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Re: So it's going to be 17 Mountain Corps?
@Ray
On the other hand HQ people are clueless enough without being too isolated from subordinate units.
@Ray
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Re: So it's going to be 17 Mountain Corps?
Where has it been mentioned where the HQ is to be?
Where has it been mentioned where the HQ is to be?
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Abhijeet Dey
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Army gets final nod to deploy 50,000 more troops along China border
Press Trust of India, 19 November 2013
NEW DELHI: The government has given its final go ahead to the Army for raising a corps along the China border which will include the deployment of 50,000 additional troops there at a cost of around Rs 65,000 crore.
The 17 Corps, the latest and the 14th such formation of the Army, will initially be based at Ranchi in Jharkhand and after development of infrastructure, will be moved to Panagarh in West Bengal. This will be the first corps with strike elements to be deployed close to the Line of Actual Control (LAC).
The defence ministry has given the government sanction letter (GSL) to the Army in this regard with complete details of the new formation to be raised and the funds sanctioned for the purpose, government sources said here.
The postings of the officers to the new formation have already started and its chief will be chosen from the fresh batch of Major Generals who have faced a promotion board recently to be elevated to the rank of Lieutenant General, they said.
The Cabinet Committee on Security headed by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had cleared the proposal for raising the corps in its meeting on July 17.
As part of the plans, the new corps will see the raising of two divisions in Bihar and Assam with their units in Arunachal Pradesh and other parts of the north eastern region.
The sources said the IAF will also deploy its force multiplier assets such as six each of midair refuelling tankers and C-130J Super Hercules special operations aircraft at Panagarh.
The Army had sent the proposal in this regard in 2010 but it was returned by the government which asked the three Services to work together on plans to strengthen their capabilities in that region.
Press Trust of India, 19 November 2013
NEW DELHI: The government has given its final go ahead to the Army for raising a corps along the China border which will include the deployment of 50,000 additional troops there at a cost of around Rs 65,000 crore.
The 17 Corps, the latest and the 14th such formation of the Army, will initially be based at Ranchi in Jharkhand and after development of infrastructure, will be moved to Panagarh in West Bengal. This will be the first corps with strike elements to be deployed close to the Line of Actual Control (LAC).
The defence ministry has given the government sanction letter (GSL) to the Army in this regard with complete details of the new formation to be raised and the funds sanctioned for the purpose, government sources said here.
The postings of the officers to the new formation have already started and its chief will be chosen from the fresh batch of Major Generals who have faced a promotion board recently to be elevated to the rank of Lieutenant General, they said.
The Cabinet Committee on Security headed by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had cleared the proposal for raising the corps in its meeting on July 17.
As part of the plans, the new corps will see the raising of two divisions in Bihar and Assam with their units in Arunachal Pradesh and other parts of the north eastern region.
The sources said the IAF will also deploy its force multiplier assets such as six each of midair refuelling tankers and C-130J Super Hercules special operations aircraft at Panagarh.
The Army had sent the proposal in this regard in 2010 but it was returned by the government which asked the three Services to work together on plans to strengthen their capabilities in that region.
ladder
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Re: So it's going to be 17 Mountain Corps?
Cross posting from another thread
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-army/35530-mountain-strike-corps-16.html#post816069
Ranchi will be headquarters of 17 Corps till infrastructure is developed at Panagarh.
Two new divisions will be raised in Bihar and Assam. ( not clear about third div.) ( with units in Arunachal Pradesh and other NE regions)
@Ray
Cross posting from another thread
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-army/35530-mountain-strike-corps-16.html#post816069
Ranchi will be headquarters of 17 Corps till infrastructure is developed at Panagarh.
Two new divisions will be raised in Bihar and Assam. ( not clear about third div.) ( with units in Arunachal Pradesh and other NE regions)
@Ray
Last edited by a moderator:
