More Talwar Class for Indian Navy

[vram]

If every order for the navy at the sake of domestic training is stuck with indefinite delay you are left only with sail powered ships to defend the nation, Talwar is follow on order and we are reading about time penalties, that acts as a Plan B then putting ll eggs in a basket, more over 1 billion tag is debatable.

But the Shivalik ...Satpura and Sehayadri are not Stuck are they....YES there was delays...But still they came through within reasonable time periods....
We are talking about Kolkata class and project - 17B today because some visionary people had the foresight to build the DELHI class of destroyers in INDIA before running to Russio for that as well.
Today we are atleast in this level because of this people...else we would still have been a buyers navy....

ALSO dont you find it ironical that the one military area that we are alteast domestically ahead of china in quality as well as firepower is the Navys surface fleet. Indiginzation only has helped us improve tactics and confidence in fielding equipment.
The vikramaditya saga tells its own story of how the navy is not able to formulate a proper docterine on CBG becuase of the inconsistency of Russia.
There is NO substitute to home built strength and never will be... The reason Japan lost the WWII was simply because of the massive Carrier groups and naval equipment that the US ship yards could churn at an impressive pace...

 

[Payeng]

They didn't have any experience when designing Indian major subsystems now functional on various major hardware used by Indian Armed forces..

If we have such a mind set we may never able to go forwards, When this country got independent many raised question that, can Indian run it ? ..

My statement was just a query and Yusuf cleared it out, nothing to do with mind set.

They have many subsystems Indians, Ship today made in India have at-least 40-60% Indian Inputs..

In foregin countries also, A ship or a system does not have 100% subsystem of that country..

My point is why redirect a follow on order of the Navy to fill up berth space, indigenous projects are on I am not discouraging.

let me explain it through an example:
I got a dual sim mobile for just in case if their is no network coverage from one service provider.
Why should I not use two service provider then two sims from a single provider?

That defeats the cause, as the same as the above discussion, the Navy might not be very pleased if the order gets redirected like wise.

 

[JBH22]

Precondition to become a global power is to have a well developed shipbuilding industry this has been met by UK in colonial times, USA and now Chinese.
Agreed that so long we are adding hardware its good,but it would have been better if we had private sector in that industry also

 

[Payeng]

But the Shivalik ...Satpura and Sehayadri are not Stuck are they....YES there was delays...But still they came through within reasonable time periods....
We are talking about Kolkata class and project - 17B today because some visionary people had the foresight to build the DELHI class of destroyers in INDIA before running to Russio for that as well.
Today we are atleast in this level because of this people...else we would still have been a buyers navy....

ALSO dont you find it ironical that the one military area that we are alteast domestically ahead of china in quality as well as firepower is the Navys surface fleet. Indiginzation only has helped us improve tactics and confidence in fielding equipment.
The vikramaditya saga tells its own story of how the navy is not able to formulate a proper docterine on CBG becuase of the inconsistency of Russia

Of our two mordern class of Frigates the Shivalik and the Talwar, the former is our learning curve and the later helps us with the numbers, I think by follow on order maybe the Navy want numbers as older ones are about to get retired. I dont think by those follow on orders Project 17A has been compromised.

 

[badguy2000]

unit price is 1billion usd usd indeed devalues much.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

He said my words, which i said on first page post number # 7..

My statement was just a query and Yusuf cleared it out, nothing to do with mind set.

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Understood but the number of imports are going too high, read the post number # 7..

and if can please give me some feedback on those..

My point is why redirect a follow on order of the Navy to fill up berth space, indigenous projects are on I am not discouraging.

 

[p2prada]

Nice, 3 more ships. We have 6 Nilgiri class and 3 Godavari class ships that need to be replaced. We will have 9 Talwar class to replace Nilgiri and Godavari.

As for costs, steel prices have been increasing steadily since the first contract was signed years ago.

The first contract for 3 ships was $1Billion. The second was a follow on contract and was $1.6Billion, which includes inflation since the time of the first contract. This new contract seems to be a fresh one, hence the higher cost.

Add more modern electronics and systems, the cost is quite justified. Especially considering the ships are built rather quickly.

 

[trackwhack]

Some real crappy reporting regarding bramhos on talwar.

 

[Payeng]

He said my words, which i said on first page post number # 7..



===============================

Understood but the number of imports are going too high, read the post number # 7..

and if can please give me some feedback on those..

If local production gonna take more then 2x the time for equal number of output, unfortunately imports are on higher side thats why I am advocating working on time required per production then multiplication of work place locally. This let me believe if one Shivalik could be produced in similar time span it would be Shivalik then a Talwar on order.

Moreover the time required for the construction is due to formalities in procurement of the subsystems from foreign vendors which can be drastically reduced by self efficiency.

when we can outsource work rather then buying foreign licensed imports we can call it a day.

 

[Armand2REP]

Why does France have to build its warships in India while Russia gets to build them at home?

 

[WMD]

Why does France have to build its warships in India while Russia gets to build them at home?

I think its because, we still haven't built a indigenous non-nuk submarine, but we have built stealth surface ships like Shivalik class and the Kolkata destroyers, even the Kamorta ASW corvettes.
Though the later 2 are still not commissioned.

 

[bose]

Why can not Indian Shipyards be modernized and capacity utilization increased to that we can build those ships in India itself rather than in Russia... Do we really have any future plans for increasing our capacity or continue to place orders to other countries and pay our precious foreign currency in premium...

 

[Yusuf]

Why does France have to build its warships in India while Russia gets to build them at home?

India knows how to make surface ships and does not have spare capacity to make more.

India did not know how to make subs so France had to make them in India so that India could learn how to make subs

 

[SajeevJino]

$3 billions aka Queen Elizabeth ad some Naval Typhoons .......

 

[Yusuf]

$3 billions aka Queen Elizabeth ad some Naval Typhoons .......

Who said QE costs $3billion with naval Typhoon (if any existed)?

 

[SajeevJino]

Who said QE costs $3billion with naval Typhoon (if any existed)?

how much does it Costs QE with 30 Typhoons

 

[Yusuf]

how much does it Costs QE with 30 Typhoons

Naval Typhoon does not exist.

QE costs over $7 billion.

30 naval Typhoons if developed would cost $3 billion at the very least.

QE to be complimented with F-35s

 

[Armand2REP]

$3 billions aka Queen Elizabeth ad some Naval Typhoons .......

$3 billion would only buy a QE hull.

 

[vram]

$3 billions aka Queen Elizabeth ad some Naval Typhoons .......

Look at the brighter side. Though I have continously argued against this contract here...they are still good ships with cruise missile capacity.
A stealth ship with mach 3 cruise missiles have a very good chance of taking down a aircraft carrier given the right circumstances

 

[Kunal Biswas]

That is what you have already said, But what i am asking is different, Nor you or Yusuf are answering any of the call i made.. >>

Sound like Corruption involvement..

We successfully made Shivalik class and now we are not funding nor giving orders nor upgrading ship yards but trying to import more of these..

Let me, get into details >>

Mazagon dock which is now stuck with Kolkata class vessels..
Cochin Shipyard is currently building India's first indigenuous Aircraft Carrier..
Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers Limited is stuck with kamorta class corvette

=========================>>

1. None are upgraded..
2. Problems are still unsolved no solution yet passed for stuck up projects, Ignored at best..
3. No orders are issued as the shipyards do have ability to do simultaneously projects..

We all know about the issues and hence the import the same thing repeated in past by our babus too..

I want to know the following details i have noted in numbers, these are questions..

If local production gonna take more then 2x the time for equal number of output, unfortunately imports are on higher side thats why I am advocating working on time required per production then multiplication of work place locally. This let me believe if one Shivalik could be produced in similar time span it would be Shivalik then a Talwar on order.

Moreover the time required for the construction is due to formalities in procurement of the subsystems from foreign vendors which can be drastically reduced by self efficiency.

when we can outsource work rather then buying foreign licensed imports we can call it a day.