Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

[mcpo117]

Ah ha, the usual Taliban vs NATO, we have more courage, mountain, Chinese and NATO vulnerable to natural thing.
mann me hai vishwas, pura hai vishwas, hum honge kamyab ek din

Weren't you ashamed even a bit while writing about the second biggest army in terms of manpower and fourth largest military in terms of spending that we'll be okay with our current situation because we know guerrilla warfare?
Or because NATO was beaten by Taliban?

In the last 20 years did Americans actually try to win the war?

 

[Bleh]

In the last 20 years did Americans actually try to win the war?

They won the war in 2 months... Send all the Talibs scurrying into caves.
The next 20 years was when they found out that Afghanistan is an artificial concept & cannot be woven into a single federal state, while the Talibs simply outlived the storm. If instead of playing at nation building they'd have simply chopped it up into each ethnic warlord's domain they'd have been much more successful.

The westerners have always had this problem of failing to grasp local dynamics.

 

[Lonewarrior]

In the last 20 years did Americans actually try to win the war?

Without a single soldier engaged, without directly using any of the air/naval power, without sending any considerable modern weapon, using just global economic foothold and about to be retired equipment US has caused huge attrition among its second biggest enemy (China's the biggest)...but no, let's keep ourselves in the stories of Taliban and Vietnam.
Well to be honest that's probably the only way one can have a peaceful sleep after knowing that fact that our infantry is not much different than US in Vietnam War.

So ya; we're more courageous, adopted to local terrain, more manly than sissy Chinese, can stop a 7.62x54mm with out left pectoral, can do high altitude warfare, know guerrilla
Jai Hind

 

[Kumaoni]

They won the war in 2 months... Send all the Talibs scurrying into caves.
The next 20 years was when they found out that Afghanistan is an artificial concept & cannot be woven into a single federal state, while the Talibs simply outlived the storm. If instead of playing at nation building they'd have simply chopped it up into each ethnic warlord's domain they'd have been much more successful.

The westerners have always had this problem of failing to grasp local dynamics.

It was never a war with the Taliban past 2 months. Just an isurgency

 

[Kumaoni]

Foiling an Infiltration bid in 2010

In 2023

 

[Lonewarrior]

Foiling an Infiltration bid in 2010View attachment 218420
In 2023View attachment 218421

Those

Spoiler

are what matters. They make the whole difference

 

[Kumaoni]

Those

Spoiler

View attachment 218422

are what matters. They make the whole difference

Waaaow grapppe

10 years of time
Over 200 billion from the taxpayer
And this is what they add to the infantry kit.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

If we look at the balance sheet of BELOP the orders for NVG have been declining. BELOP also delaying start of production of XR5 for 3 yrs now

Perhaps imported light tanks & super costly Apache helo will eliminate the need for NVG s

 

[abingdonboy]

If we look at the balance sheet of BELOP the orders for NVG have been declining. BELOP also delaying start of production of XR5 for 3 yrs now

Perhaps imported light tanks & super costly Apache helo will eliminate the need for NVG s

PLA needs to humiliate them for them to wake up. If Chinese start conducting exclusively night ops like the West likes to fight the IA will be utterly defenceless.

 

[abingdonboy]

They won the war in 2 months... Send all the Talibs scurrying into caves.
The next 20 years was when they found out that Afghanistan is an artificial concept & cannot be woven into a single federal state, while the Talibs simply outlived the storm. If instead of playing at nation building they'd have simply chopped it up into each ethnic warlord's domain they'd have been much more successful.

The westerners have always had this problem of failing to grasp local dynamics.

Nation building isn’t a military mission.

a handful (sub 200) of ODA/Tier 1/SAD backed by USAF Wiped out/drove out the Taliban within a few weeks of launching Ops in October 2001. Everything that came after that was political.

ditto Iraq- US/Coalition took down the 6th(?) largest military at the time in a matter of weeks and losing negligible numbers themselves.

claiming the US can’t win wars citing Iraq/Afghanistan is pure copium. The US would capture Moscow within a month if nuclear weapons were off the table and it wouldn’t even need to break a sweat. Indian military can’t even win decisive tactical victories against the Pakis

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Heji modernization where?

 

[abingdonboy]

Heji modernization where?

modernisation IA style-Basic rifle issued, modernisation complete.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

modernisation IA style-Basic rifle issued, modernisation complete.

They haven't done that too properly

 

[Lonewarrior]

Heji modernization where?

Jala Mobil pot diya modernize ke naam pe

 

[Bleh]

Nation building isn’t a military mission.

a handful (sub 200) of ODA/Tier 1/SAD backed by USAF Wiped out/drove out the Taliban within a few weeks of launching Ops in October 2001. Everything that came after that was political.

ditto Iraq- US/Coalition took down the 6th(?) largest military at the time in a matter of weeks and losing negligible numbers themselves.

claiming the US can’t win wars citing Iraq/Afghanistan is pure copium. The US would capture Moscow within a month if nuclear weapons were off the table and it wouldn’t even need to break a sweat. Indian military can’t even win decisive tactical victories against the Pakis

That's what i meant to say exactly... there's far too many people who equate the two as same.

Forget decisive victory over Pak.. considering the level of their 750+ Ak-1, 300 VT-4s & 300 T-80, we'll be back at 1965's near-parity with 3000 decade old tech T-72/90s, several hundred of them tied down at China front. Only our Navy can make short work of theirs. Not even IAF hold decisive advantage against their more AWACs & 130 highly versatile workhorse jets unless our Sukhois are upgraded & Migs are replaced by Tejas.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Jala Mobil pot diya modernize ke naam pe

Honestly I can never get my head around like how can local companies in America come up with Better gun design than our whole country and why tf does drdo always work on something Ak based maybe they should try working on ar based gun

 

[Kumaoni]

That's what i meant to say exactly... there's far too many people who equate the two as same.

Forget decisive victory over Pak.. considering the level of their 750+ Ak-1, 300 VT-4s & 300 T-80, we'll be back at 1965's near-parity with 3000 decade old tech T-72/90s, several hundred of them tied down at China front. Only our Navy can make short work of theirs. Not even IAF hold decisive advantage against their more AWACs & 130 highly versatile workhorse jets unless our Sukhois are upgraded & Migs are replaced by Tejas.

In 1965 they had better tanks than US and more armor. The IAF barely outnumbered the PAF on the western front. Their arty was far superior to anything we had. What we did have was more numbers (barely more though, we had more of a 1.5-1.75:1 ratio on western front) and a better rifle in the SLR (which wasnt standardized among every battalion FYI- some had procure them from other btns). Only difference is that both countries have gone down significantly in general quality.

 

[Kumaoni]

PLA needs to humiliate them for them to wake up. If Chinese start conducting exclusively night ops like the West likes to fight the IA will be utterly defenceless.

Who said they didn't do any of the above? They attacked indian troops at night in Galwan and beat the utter shit out of them. Killing 20 while losing only 5 men,

 

[Bleh]

In 1965 they had better tanks than US and more armor. The IAF barely outnumbered the PAF on the western front. Their arty was far superior to anything we had. What we did have was more numbers (barely more though, we had more of a 1.5-1.75:1 ratio on western front) and a better rifle in the SLR (which wasnt standardized among every battalion FYI- some had procure them from other btns). Only difference is that both countries have gone down significantly in general quality.

I looked into the numbers, ignoring the older junk.

• Considering our eastern deployments, till 2035 we can deploy at best 2500 of our tanks in the west, against their to be upgraded 750 Ak-1 standard & 460 VT-4, plus 300 T-80s... not a great enough numerical edge given at present all our tanks are quite significantly outmatched techwise & we have no good plans to. Changing T-72 turrets will bring them to only T-90S level. Arjun Mark1 were competitive in 2005, not anymore. Mark1A is theoretically better but the platform itself has reached its upgradation limit. Both Ak-1 & VT-4 tech match its tech, plus their mobility is far better on all platforms with 1200hp engine. It's exactly like '65s Patton-Centurion scenario.
• Same with rifles, we have a better one in Sig on papers, but without sights it's no better than their G3 on field.
• They're getting lots ot great mobile arty from China, more than us. Towed arty may be at a considerable weakness at present or near-future.

So yes, the best option would be as i said, ie, invest in the Navy where were already ahead... Pump money in the Sukhoi upgradation & replacing Mig-21 with Tejas Mark1A... Then wipe out their Navy & AF with our numbers while maintaining static fronts at ground. We can defend with what we got, we can't go offensive.

And that's exactly why i think infantry upgradation is on noone's priority list.
Personal opinion based on my reasoning, but I think it explains what's happening.

 

[Kumaoni]

I looked into the numbers, ignoring the older junk.

• Considering our eastern deployments, by 2025 we can deploy at best 2500 of our tanks in the west, against their to be upgraded 750 Ak-1 standard & 460 VT-4, plus 300 T-80s... not a great enough numerical edge given at present all our tanks are quite significantly outmatched techwise & we have no good plans to. Changing T-72 turrets will bring them to only T-90S level. Arjun Mark1 were competitive in 2005, not anymore. Mark1A is theoretically better but the platform itself has reached its upgradation limit. Both Ak-1 & VT-4 tech match its. It's exactly like '65s Patton-Centurion scenario.
• Same with rifles, we have a better one in Sig on papers, but without sights it's no better than their G3 on field.
• They're getting lots ot great mobile arty from China, more than us. Towed arty may be at a considerable weakness at present or near-future.

So yes, the best option would be as i said, ie, invest in the Navy where were already ahead... Pump money in the Sukhoi upgradation & replacing Mig-21 with Tejas Mark1A... Then wipe out their Navy & AF with our numbers while maintaining static fronts at ground. We can defend with what we got, we can't go offensive.

And that's exactly why i think infantry upgradation is on noone's priority list.
Personal opinion based on my reasoning, but I think it explains what's happening.

Well firstly, If the Pakistan army even attempts an invasion from the plains, it will be wiped out within a week. Even without air superiority or Naval superiority, it’s really going On a counter offensive we will need air superiority and naval superiority. The tank scenario is a slight different, while Pak had more tanks than ia did in its entirety, ia had an arguably better tank in the centurion.