Modernisation of Indian Army Infantry

[Blood+]

IA: You mean to say we actually have to design our own rifle, work with the pvt industry, hold trials, (or a competition amongst multiple pvt players) suggest improvements etc... and finally induct them, instead of copy pasting unreal requirements based on some foreign weapon as an RFI and earning kickbacks when said foreign company is given the deal AND not have to conduct endless trials ? Gasp !

Yeah, that was really inconsiderate of me.

 

[Kumaoni]

But, 7.62 is better at long range combat.. and if it hits any unprotected area, it will transfer a lot more kinetic energy and kill the enemy.. But, for close quarter combat there is no beating the 5.56.. since soldiers can carry a lot more bullets and thus, unleash much greater suppressive fire..

Maybe we can use Sigs to take out the Chinese along LAC, or Pakis in Siachen, from long distances..as at that altitude enemy solciers might have more winter gear than protective gear..

SIGs for LoC combat
AKs 5.56 for COIN OPs and urban combat
Standardize this and I’ll be happy

 

[Blood+]

SIGs for LoC combat

They'd be better suited for the Ladakh sector IF the army had gone with a longer barrel option along with the license for the M80A1 rounds. But the present setup is, well, let's just say it's suboptimal. I'm saying this, is because regular 7.62 NATO rounds have notoriously poor performance against level III armor plates and above.

 

[Kumaoni]

No, they'd be better suited for the Ladakh sector IF the army had gone with a longer barrel option along with the license for the M80A1 rounds. But the present setup is, well, let's just say it's suboptimal. I'm saying this, is because regular 7.62 NATO rounds have notoriously poor performance against level III armor plates and above.

The thing is LoC combat barring raids is at a distant and not close quarters

 

[Blood+]

The thing is LoC combat barring raids is at a distant and not close quarters

And you think a rifle with a mere 16" inch barrel would suffice for that??

 

[Kumaoni]

And you think a rifle with a mere 16" inch barrel would suffice for that??

No, but 7.62 caliber rifle in general is a far superior to 5.56 for LoC CFVs.

 

[Blood+]

No, but 7.62 caliber rifle in general is a far superior to 5.56 for LoC CFVs.

Ok, what's the typical engagement distances for CFVs??

 

[Kumaoni]

Ok, what's the typical engagement distances for CFVs??

Have no clue.
Think it would be anywhere from 600 Mtrs to 2-3kms.

Usually Snipers and DMRs are used as well as heavy firepower like ATGMs, RLs, etc etc, along with small arms fire. This is how LoC CFVs have always been.


but because LoC has been fenced since 2003, the distance control is the most important thing to winning CFV engagements, as our men can’t cross the LoC as often as they used to

 

[Blood+]

Have no clue.
Think it would be anywhere from 600 Mtrs to 2-3kms.

Usually Snipers and DMRs are used as well as heavy firepower like ATGMs, RLs, etc etc, along with small arms fire. This is how LoC CFVs have always been.


but because LoC has been fenced since 2003, the distance control is the most important thing to winning CFV engagements, as our men can’t cross the LoC as often as they used to

And there in lies the rub and that's why I've been bitching about the barrel length of the SIGs. They should have really gone with a 20" barrel option with the addition of either a 1-10X LPVO sight or at the very least a 6x magnifier plus special purpose ammunition. And since we are talking about largely static warfare from prepared defensive positions, then why not induct 12.7 mm HMGs in large numbers?? I mean the OFB already produces the NSV series HMGs, don't they??

 

[Kumaoni]

And there in lies the rub and that's why I've been bitching about the barrel length of the SIGs. They should have really gone with a 20" barrel option with the addition of either a 1-10X LPVO sight or at the very least a 6x magnifier plus special purpose ammunition. And since we are talking about largely static warfare from prepared defensive positions, then why not induct 12.7 mm HMGs in large numbers?? I mean the OFB already produces the NSV series HMGs, don't they??

I think some poster said in the past that HMGs waste lots of ammunition.
I think more than HMGs, what’s needed on LoC are dedicated snipers in each section or platoon of a rifle company. We already have top tier designated marksmen, but a sniper will always beat a designated marksmen. Many times LoC ambush parties have suffered from letting militants get too close as they can’t kill past 800 mtrs.

 

[Blood+]

I think some poster said in the past that HMGs waste lots of ammunition.

That poster is then a fucking moron. HMGs generally have lower rate of fire compared to GPMGs.

I think more than HMGs, what’s needed on LoC are dedicated snipers in each section or platoon of a rifle company. We already have top tier designated marksmen, but a sniper will always beat a designated marksmen. Many times LoC ambush parties have suffered from letting militants get too close as they can’t kill past 800 mtrs.

Designated marksmen would be enough for our needs along the LoC since we're not trying to sneak into enemy territory anyway. Just give them the proper tools and training to enable them to shoot farther.
Besides, snipers are precision instruments, just like SOFs, they cannot be mass produced. It just takes too much time and resources to train an expert sniper.

 

[MikeTheInfantryman]

That poster is then a fucking moron. HMGs generally have lower rate of fire compared to GPMGs.

Designated marksmen would be enough for our needs along the LoC since we're not trying to sneak into enemy territory anyway. Just give them the proper tools and training to shoot farther.

And better DMRs

 

[Blood+]

And better DMRs

Or you could just give them sniper rifles chambered for Lapua Magnum with powerful scopes and built-in ballistic computers. That should work.

 

[R A Varun]

Nah, we plan to use dirt cheap ammo, which is why we are going for larger caliber. Otherwise an AK in 5.56 would be nice.
View attachment 220038
View attachment 220039

In mountainous terrain the distance will be more, and there large caliber is required than that of the CQB, providing supressive fire from one ridge to another is will be more common in this case.
the fiber glass fiasco is a worrisome however there is a gradual replacements going in a phased manner not to mention that most of the frontline troops are being equiped with latest generation bodywear.

and yet we have to bear with regular replacements and new procurements both for current users and new troops and formations to be equipped with them.

taking the new procurements of armoured vehicle orders for the army and paramilitary, the govt is not taking the threat of the urban combat and the troops security during transport lineantly.

various types of body armour is being provided for the rashtriya rifles for experimentation and usage trials.

 

[Kumaoni]

That poster is then a fucking moron. HMGs generally have lower rate of fire compared to GPMGs.

Designated marksmen would be enough for our needs along the LoC since we're not trying to sneak into enemy territory anyway. Just give them the proper tools and training to enable them to shoot farther.
Besides, snipers are precision instruments, just like SOFs, they cannot be mass produced. It just takes too much time and resources to train an expert sniper.

The issue with DMs is that the Pakistanis have a dedicated sniper team against us on the LoC. this has caused many problems in the past. We need to outgun them in all aspects. Our sniper cu

 

[Blood+]

The issue with DMs is that the Pakistanis have a dedicated sniper team against us on the LoC. this has caused many problems in the past. We need to outgun them in all aspects. Our sniper cu

Did you even read a word I wrote??

 

[Kumaoni]

Did you even read a word I wrote??

Yes.

Will they take more resources? Absolutely! But it’s a step in the right direction. Simple DMRs arwnt enough imo. Pakistani snipers are a known nuisance on the LoC. DMRs have only been effective when tackling militant infiltration parties. I don’t think DMRs will be enough to gain a decisive edge on the LoC.

 

[Blood+]

Yes.

Will they take more resources? Absolutely! But it’s a step in the right direction. Simple DMRs arwnt enough imo. Pakistani snipers are a known nuisance on the LoC. DMRs have only been effective when tackling militant infiltration parties. I don’t think DMRs will be enough to gain a decisive edge on the LoC.

Why??

 

[Kumaoni]

Why??

Because Pak has a dedicated sniper culture and have built their capabilities with l numerous battles against the Taliban. At the very least we need to match them. Ideally dominate them. Sniping can be a lethal tool especially on the LoC.

 

[Blood+]

Because Pak has a dedicated sniper culture and have built their capabilities with l numerous battles against the Taliban. At the very least we need to match them. Ideally dominate them. Sniping can be a lethal tool especially on the LoC.

That's not what I was asking, kid. What I meant to ask was, Why do you think that a Designated Marksman cannot match a sniper if the said DM is provided with the right tools, i.e., a precision rifle like the Sako TRG (or just pick one of your liking) and the training to use it to its full potential?? Heck, if we are talking about dominating them, then we might as well go all in and order this little doohickey to go with it.