MMRCA news and discussions.

Whats your Choice for the MMRCA Contest?

  • Gripen

    Votes: 5 4.9%
  • F16 IN

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • F18 SH

    Votes: 8 7.8%
  • Mig 35

    Votes: 24 23.3%
  • Dassault Rafale

    Votes: 45 43.7%
  • Eurofighter Typhoon

    Votes: 20 19.4%

  • Total voters
    103

venom

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That is what the whole thread is about ...

I say we should go for the Typhoon.....I know its expensive but its worth it, a complete air superiority fighter & Tranch 3 will have full multirole capability.
 

venom

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Kuwait: F-18 Super Hornet moves on, Rafale on the back burner

The talks on a deal for the F-18 Super Hornet are said to be moving on at the expense of the talks on the Rafale or the JAS39 Gripen. The following 469-word report included in Tactical Weekly of July 31, 2009 focuses on the position of Defence Minister Sheikh Jaber Al-Mubarak with regard to such eventuality. It also tells how Emir Sabah Al-Ahmad of Kuwait is reacting and whether there are still chances for a Rafale deal to go through.

Tactical Report - Kuwait: F-18 Super Hornet moves on, Rafale on the back burner
 

venom

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BAE: We're Set To Weather a Downturn

LONDON - BAE Systems Chief Executive Ian King dismissed suggestions that Europe's largest defense firm might become a victim of a spending downturn.

King, speaking after he unveiled financial results for the six months to the end of June, said the company was "extremely well placed" to weather any spending adjustments in the U.K. and the U.S. with "long-term commitments on the right programs."

The BAE boss said that the company wasn't totally immune, but he pointed to Typhoon, Joint Strike Fighter, a 15-year Royal Navy shipbuilding program, sustainment and readiness projects, and what he called "sweet spots like infrared, power management and electronic warfare" in the Electronics, Intelligence & Support business.

"In the air sector alone, the imminent Tranche 3 deal on Typhoon will take manufacture out to 2017. On Joint Strike Fighter [in which BAE is a partner], we are already in low-rate initial production, and by 2016/17, the program will be producing some 220 aircraft," he said.

The four-nation Tranche 3 deal is expected to be signed tomorrow.

King said Typhoon's export prospects were good, although he rated its chance of winning an Indian competition for a new fighter as a "long shot." The Typhoon is up against European, Russian and U.S. rivals.

Although BAE was pretty bullish about its medium-term prospects, the small print of the company's results highlighted concerns that some of its supply chain may not be so robust during the current economic downturn.

The company has said that one of its principal risks is the ability of its suppliers to meet their obligations.

"In addition to the principal risks identified in the Annual Report 2008, the following additional risk concerning dependence on component availability, subcontractor performance and key suppliers has been identified," the half-yearly report said. "Some of the Group's suppliers or subcontractors may be impacted by the current economic environment and constraints on available financing, which could impair their ability to meet their obligations to the Group."

King, who said the issue had been identified during a recent bond issue, said BAE had not been affected yet.

He said the company was being "very vigilant about the [health] of the supply chain, although it does not mean we are going to loan them money."

BAE reported a 28 percent increase in sales revenues to 9.94 billion pounds ($16.4 billion) and a 19 percent rise in underlying earnings before interest payments and other charges to 979 million pounds.

The downside was a net loss of 70 million pounds from writing down the value of some assets and exchange rate fluctuations. Last year, the company saw a 599 million-pound profit in the same period.

In a statement, the company said it "continued to perform well with performance in the first half of 2009 underpinning the Group's expectations of good growth for the full year despite a lower level of land vehicle sales."

The U.S.-managed Electronic, Intelligence & Support business provided much of the gloss for the company results with revenues at 2.86 billion pounds against 1.95 billion pounds for the first six months of last year. On a like-for-like basis, sales advanced 8 percent in the period.

"In spite of downward pressure on the U.S. defense budget, EI&S expects continued growth through strategic contract wins in information, mission support and services," the BAE statement said.

The company, which draws more than 50 percent of its revenues from its U.S. operations, said overall its activities were "well aligned" with the new priorities of the Pentagon equipment program.

On the downside, the company anticipates fewer sales for the Land & Armaments business over the next 12 months, thanks to a reduction in the U.S. MRAP program. That slump will be partially offset by increases on other programs, principally Bradley armored personnel carriers and FMTV trucks.

King said only one-third of the Land & Armaments business was vehicle-related; the remainder focused on ordnance, munitions and other products for which demand remained high.

The BAE boss said he sees plenty of vehicle-sale opportunities, noting that the company is contending for the U.S. Joint Light Tactical Vehicle program and that Australia, Canada, India and other countries are planning recapitalization

BAE: We're Set To Weather a Downturn - Defense News
 

natarajan

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out of topic
why we need huge chunk of money to be pumped into single project as we can very well use them for infra
 

venom

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out of topic
why we need huge chunk of money to be pumped into single project as we can very well use them for infra
You will be constructing your Infra & the Pakis & chinese will fly in there & bomb it to hell..wat u gona do...hit them with stones....& stay with the topic next time...
 

natarajan

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Defence is important as we r going to get lca,mca,pakfa,sukhoi
still why we need 4th gen fighters
 

duhastmish

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Defence is important as we r going to get lca,mca,pakfa,sukhoi
still why we need 4th gen fighters
I know this is - a very common and first fact!! but just thinkign may be you are new to mrca -- i will tell you.

the reson is we need mrca to replace aging fleet of - mig-21 and ex mig-23.

more in number superiority ,:113:
 

venom

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Britain to buy 40 Typhoons but may not order any more

Britain has signed up to buy another 40 Eurofighter Typhoon fighter planes but cast doubt on the future of the programme by saying it was unlikely to need any more.

Under an agreement made with its partner nations, Germany, Spain and Italy, in 1998, Britain has another 48 Typhoons to buy, but Quentin Davies, defence equipment minister yesterday said there is "no further commitment".

"This is really tranche three," Mr Davies said. "I don't exclude the possibility that we will buy more aircraft in the future, but there is no present intent, nor any expectation from our partners nor any obligation. We have signed for the totality of our available spending, which is now committed."

The end of the programme would be a blow to defence company BAE Systems and engine-maker Rolls-Royce, which will make £2bn and more than £300m respectively from the 40 planes committed to yesterday.

The European partners building the aircraft agreed a €9bn (£7.7bn) contract to build 40 aircraft for the UK, 31 for Germany, 21 for Italy and 20 for Spain. The contract was agreed after BAE and its industrial partners EADS and Finmeccanica offered a cheaper maintenance and support deal for the life of the planes.

That contract will support 5,000 jobs at BAE in Britain at the height of production. Some 4,000 posts at engine-maker Rolls-Royce and its suppliers and a further 16,000 jobs across the UK aerospace industry also hinge on Eurofighter.

But since Britain signed a memorandum of understanding with Germany, Italy and Spain to buy 232 Eurofighters in 1998, the Ministry of Defence's priorities have changed. The conflict on the ground in Afghanistan is escalating and the Government has come under fire for failing to provide the necessary kit to soldiers serving there, particularly an adequate number of helicopters. The MoD's finances are expected to come under further pressure as the Government and its successor try to control the debts the country has built up as a result of the financial crisis.

It is now understood that no decision will be made on the remaining 48 Typhoons until after a strategic defence review has been carried out. The first detailed review for 10 years was announced earlier this month. A Green Paper is due in early 2010 but the review would not come until after a general election.

BAE said on Thursday activity in its fighter plane business would help to offset the drop-off in orders for armoured vehicles for the US military as it scales back in Iraq.

The company is making Typhoons for Saudi Arabia and hopes to win more export orders.

BAE's shares fell 5 to 307p.

Britain to buy 40 Typhoons but may not order any more - Telegraph
 

ajay_ijn

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IAF to begin trials for MMRCA this week
Entire process of testing wares of six competitors is expected to last till April
http://www.hindu.com/2009/08/02/stories/2009080254951300.htm
NEW DELHI: The Indian Air Force is all set to commence the trials for its quest to acquire 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft starting at Bangalore next week. The entire process of testing the wares of six competitors is expected to last till April next year.

Each of the six vendors who are competing for the $10.2 billion (approx Rs. 48,000 crore) deal will be bringing in their fighter jets to India that would be tested in home conditions across three climate zones – hot, humid and cold — top IAF officials said.

First to get of the mark will be Boeing’s F/A 18 Super Hornet that would be flown by IAF team of test pilots at Bangalore, Leh in Jammu and Kashmir and Jaisalmer in Rajasthan. Besides being a cold-weather terrain Leh is a high-altitude location while Jaisalmer is a desert area where hot winds blow.
Competitors

The competitors include Swedish Gripen, Lockheed Martin’s F-16 Super Viper, Eurofighter Typhoon, Russian United Aircraft Corporation’s MiG 35 and French Dassault Aviation’s Rafale would also be provided an opportunity for the trials.

The IAF has formed two teams of two test pilots who would evaluate the flying machine against the specific requirements of the IAF at each of these three locations. Planning for the trial schedule began some time back with the Indian test pilots being trained at the vendor’s country of origin.

The second phase begins with the flight trials in Indian airspace and in the third and final phase, the aircraft would be run through a batter of tests to check the efficacy of its weapons the manufacturers would mount on the aircraft at home country, the officials said.

The IAF completed technical evaluation earlier this year after the six competitors responded to the Request for Proposal issued by India last year.

Officials said the possibility of the trials overlapping could not be ruled out since the IAF hopes to complete the exercise latest by March/April 2010. Once the trials are over and aircraft identified, commercial negotiations would commence.

India plans to acquire 18 of these in ready-to-fly conditions with the rest being manufactured in India under transfer of technology.
-------------------------------------
would any fighter perform upto-the mark or as normally in conditions like Jaisalmar, Leh? no foreign manufacturer would develop their avionics, computers, equipment keeping in mind of such extreme environment like Leh.
 

tharikiran

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Guys, I think the F-16's and F-18's will work in the dessert conditions as they have operated in the heat of Iraq. Norway operates F-16's too. It's a cold country.

I believe the avionics will hold up. MIG-35 will hold up in cold conditions as it comes from Russia which is again a cold country.

Inputs please.
 

F-14

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The F-16's and F-18's can operate in any Conditions these are the Countries that operate the Following Platforms and their general Climatic conditions

F-18

Kuwaiti Air force :-A/F-18 "LEGECY"

CLIMATIC CONDITION

Hot Arid Desert
mean temp 45+

F-18 Version operated F-18 Block I

The Kuwait Air Force (Al Quwwat Aj Jawwaiya Al Kuwaitiya) has 39 F/A-18C and F/A-18D Hornets as of 2008. These aircraft were pre-ordered before the Iraqi invasion of August 1990. Delivery of the fighters started on 8 October 1991.The F/A-18C/Ds replaced A-4KU Skyhawk.
YES(Year entered Service):-1991-1995

Role:- AD, A2G

RAAF:-Legecy F-18's

[quoted]The Royal Australian Air Force purchased 57 F/A-18A fighters and 18 F/A-18B two-seat trainers.[20] The first F/A-18 was delivered to the RAAF on 29 October 1984.

Three options were considered for the replacement of the RAAF's Mirage IIIs, options were the F-15A Eagle, F-16 Falcon, and the then new F/A-18 Hornet. The F-15 was discounted because the version offered did not have a ground-attack capability. The F-16 was deemed unsuitable largely on the basis of its having only one engine. Consequently, Australia signed a contract in October 1981. The first two aircraft were produced in the US, with the remainder being assembled in Australia at Government Aircraft Factories. Deliveries took place between February 1985 and May 1990. Original differences between the Australian and US Navy's standard F/A-18 were the removal of nose wheel tie bar for catapult launch (later re-fitted with a dummy version to remove nose wheel shimmy), addition of a high frequency radio, an Australian fatigue data analysis system, an improved video and voice recorder, and the use of ILS/VOR (Instrument Landing System/Very High Frequency Omnidirectional Range) instead of the carrier landing system
[/quoted]

CLIMATIC CONDITION

Condinental variations

Mean Temp : 50+ (Outback)

Version Operated : F-18 Block I ( this does not take in to account the e/f variant )

Year entered Service: 1984-1990

RCAF (Canadian Forces Air command)

[quoted]Canada was the first export customer for the Hornet, replacing the CF-104 Starfighter (air reconnasissance & strike), the CF-101 Voodoo (air interception) and the CF-116 Freedom Fighter (ground attack). The Canadian Forces Air Command ordered 98 A-models (Canadian designation CF-188A/CF-18A) and 40 B models (designation CF-188B/CF-18B).

[/quoted]

CLIMATIC CONDITION

Alapine

Mean Temp : +35 -20

Version Operated : F-18 Block I ( Lisince Produced And designated CF-188 according to the Canadian Joint Service Designation System )

Year entered Service:1980-1989 (canada was one of the First coustmers for the Hornet)

swissluftwaffa( the swiss air force)

purchased 26 C models and 8 D models. One D model was lost in a crash.[25] Delivery of the aircraft started on 25 January 1996

CLIMATIC CONDITION

Alpine

Mean Temp : -50 in the alpine regions

Version Operated : F-18C/D

Year entered Service: 1996-1999

Finnish Air force

The Finnish Air Force (Suomen Ilmavoimat) ordered 64 F-18C/Ds. Delivery started on 7 June 1995. The Hornet replaced the MiG-21bis and Saab 35 Draken in Finnish service. One fighter was destroyed in a mid-air collision in 2001.[12] Another damaged F-18C has been rebuilt into a F-18D. In order to do so, a forward section of a Canadian CF-18B was purchased and incorporated into the jet.[citation needed]

The Finnish F-18C includes the ASPJ (Airborne-Self-Protection-Jammer) jamming pod ALQ-165 that was canceled on original US Navy orders. The US Navy later included the ALQ-165 on their Super Hornet (F-18E/F) procurement. The Finnish Hornets were initially to be used only for air defense, hence the designation F-18.

Finland is upgrading its fleet of F-18s with new avionics, including helmet mounted sights (HMS), new cockpit displays, sensors and standard NATO data link. A number of the 63 Hornets remaining are going to be fitted to carry air-to-ground ordnance such as the AGM-154C JSOW, in effect returning to the original F/A-18 multi-role configuration. The upgrade includes also the procurement and integration of new AIM-9X Sidewinder and AIM-120C-7 AMRAAM air-to-air missiles. This Mid-Life Upgrade (MLU) is estimated to cost between €1-1.6 billion and work is scheduled to be finished by 2015. After the upgrades the planes are to remain in active service until 2020–2025.
CLIMATIC CONDITION

Alpine/artic

Mean Temp : -50 in the alpine regions

Version Operated : F-18C/D

Year entered Service: 1995- ongoing ???

Royal Malaysian Air force

The Royal Malaysian Air Force (Tentera Udara Diraja Malaysia) has eight F/A-18Ds

CLIMATIC CONDITION

Tropical Rain Forest

Mean Temp : +50

Version Operated : F-18C/D

Year entered Service: 1997- ongoing ???

Spanish Air force

The Spanish Air Force (Ejército del Aire) ordered 60 EF-18A model and 12 EF-18B model Hornets (the "E" standing for "España", Spain), named respectively as C.15 and CE.15 by Spanish AF.[25] Delivery of the Spanish version started on 22 November 1985.[12] These fighters were upgraded to F-18A+/B+ standard, close to F/A-18C/D (plus version includes later mission and armament computers, databuses, data-storage set, new wiring, pylon modifications and software, new capabilities as AN/AAS-38B NITE Hawk targeting FLIR pods).

In 1995 Spain obtained 24 ex-USN F/A-18A Hornets, with six more on option. These were delivered from December 1995 until December 1999. Prior to delivery, they were modified to EF-18A+ standard.[31] This was the first sale of USN surplus Hornets.

Spanish Hornets operate as an all-weather interceptor 60% of the time and as an all-weather day/night attack airplane for the remainder. In case of war, each of the front-line squadrons would take a primary role: 121 is tasked with tactical air support and maritime operations; 151 and 122 are assigned to all-weather interception and air combat roles; and 152 is assigned the SEAD mission. Air refueling is provided by KC-130Hs and Boeing 707TTs. Pilot conversion to EF-18 is centralized in 153 Squadron (Ala 15). Squadron 462's role is air defense of the Canary Islands, being responsible for fighter and attack missions from Gando AB.

Spanish Air Force EF-18s Hornet have flown Ground Attack, SEAD, CAP combat missions in Bosnia and Kosovo, under NATO command, in Aviano detachment (Italy). They shared the base with Canadian and USMC F/A-18s. Eight of the Spanish Hornets have been lost.

Eight EF-18s, based at Aviano AB, participated in bombing raids against Yugoslavia in Operation Allied Force in 1999. They also performed air-to-air combat air patrol missions, close air support air-to-ground missions, photo reconnaissance missions, forward air controller-airborne missions and tactical air controller-airborne missions over Bosnia.



CLIMATIC CONDITION

arid/ Med Climet

Mean Temp : varies

Version Operated : F-18C/D

Year entered Service: 1985- 1990 /1995-1999

To be continued
 

Soham

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Thats quite precise. Seems like you put in a lot of calculations into it. :wink:
Can I ask you the reason behind those figures ?
 

ajay_ijn

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Guys, I think the F-16's and F-18's will work in the dessert conditions as they have operated in the heat of Iraq. Norway operates F-16's too. It's a cold country.

I believe the avionics will hold up. MIG-35 will hold up in cold conditions as it comes from Russia which is again a cold country.

Inputs please.
not just cold, its combination of cold and altitude. we all know how our air force faced problems during Kargil war with the flying altitudes, delivery of weapons accurately was a big challenge.

worrying thing if Air force has very strigent requirements of fighters operating in that region and if none of the fighters pass the test.
 

venom

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The F-16's and F-18's can operate in any Conditions these are the Countries that operate the Following Platforms and their general Climatic conditions

F-18

Kuwaiti Air force :-A/F-18 "LEGECY"

CLIMATIC CONDITION

Hot Arid Desert
mean temp 45+

F-18 Version operated F-18 Block I



YES(Year entered Service):-1991-1995

Role:- AD, A2G

RAAF:-Legecy F-18's

[quoted]The Royal Australian Air Force purchased 57 F/A-18A fighters and 18 F/A-18B two-seat trainers.[20] The first F/A-18 was delivered to the RAAF on 29 October 1984.

Three options were considered for the replacement of the RAAF's Mirage IIIs, options were the F-15A Eagle, F-16 Falcon, and the then new F/A-18 Hornet. The F-15 was discounted because the version offered did not have a ground-attack capability. The F-16 was deemed unsuitable largely on the basis of its having only one engine. Consequently, Australia signed a contract in October 1981. The first two aircraft were produced in the US, with the remainder being assembled in Australia at Government Aircraft Factories. Deliveries took place between February 1985 and May 1990. Original differences between the Australian and US Navy's standard F/A-18 were the removal of nose wheel tie bar for catapult launch (later re-fitted with a dummy version to remove nose wheel shimmy), addition of a high frequency radio, an Australian fatigue data analysis system, an improved video and voice recorder, and the use of ILS/VOR (Instrument Landing System/Very High Frequency Omnidirectional Range) instead of the carrier landing system
[/quoted]

CLIMATIC CONDITION

Condinental variations

Mean Temp : 50+ (Outback)

Version Operated : F-18 Block I ( this does not take in to account the e/f variant )

Year entered Service: 1984-1990

RCAF (Canadian Forces Air command)

[quoted]Canada was the first export customer for the Hornet, replacing the CF-104 Starfighter (air reconnasissance & strike), the CF-101 Voodoo (air interception) and the CF-116 Freedom Fighter (ground attack). The Canadian Forces Air Command ordered 98 A-models (Canadian designation CF-188A/CF-18A) and 40 B models (designation CF-188B/CF-18B).

[/quoted]

CLIMATIC CONDITION

Alapine

Mean Temp : +35 -20

Version Operated : F-18 Block I ( Lisince Produced And designated CF-188 according to the Canadian Joint Service Designation System )

Year entered Service:1980-1989 (canada was one of the First coustmers for the Hornet)

swissluftwaffa( the swiss air force)

purchased 26 C models and 8 D models. One D model was lost in a crash.[25] Delivery of the aircraft started on 25 January 1996

CLIMATIC CONDITION

Alpine

Mean Temp : -50 in the alpine regions

Version Operated : F-18C/D

Year entered Service: 1996-1999

Finnish Air force



CLIMATIC CONDITION

Alpine/artic

Mean Temp : -50 in the alpine regions

Version Operated : F-18C/D

Year entered Service: 1995- ongoing ???

Royal Malaysian Air force

The Royal Malaysian Air Force (Tentera Udara Diraja Malaysia) has eight F/A-18Ds

CLIMATIC CONDITION

Tropical Rain Forest

Mean Temp : +50

Version Operated : F-18C/D

Year entered Service: 1997- ongoing ???

Spanish Air force

The Spanish Air Force (Ejército del Aire) ordered 60 EF-18A model and 12 EF-18B model Hornets (the "E" standing for "España", Spain), named respectively as C.15 and CE.15 by Spanish AF.[25] Delivery of the Spanish version started on 22 November 1985.[12] These fighters were upgraded to F-18A+/B+ standard, close to F/A-18C/D (plus version includes later mission and armament computers, databuses, data-storage set, new wiring, pylon modifications and software, new capabilities as AN/AAS-38B NITE Hawk targeting FLIR pods).

In 1995 Spain obtained 24 ex-USN F/A-18A Hornets, with six more on option. These were delivered from December 1995 until December 1999. Prior to delivery, they were modified to EF-18A+ standard.[31] This was the first sale of USN surplus Hornets.

Spanish Hornets operate as an all-weather interceptor 60% of the time and as an all-weather day/night attack airplane for the remainder. In case of war, each of the front-line squadrons would take a primary role: 121 is tasked with tactical air support and maritime operations; 151 and 122 are assigned to all-weather interception and air combat roles; and 152 is assigned the SEAD mission. Air refueling is provided by KC-130Hs and Boeing 707TTs. Pilot conversion to EF-18 is centralized in 153 Squadron (Ala 15). Squadron 462's role is air defense of the Canary Islands, being responsible for fighter and attack missions from Gando AB.

Spanish Air Force EF-18s Hornet have flown Ground Attack, SEAD, CAP combat missions in Bosnia and Kosovo, under NATO command, in Aviano detachment (Italy). They shared the base with Canadian and USMC F/A-18s. Eight of the Spanish Hornets have been lost.

Eight EF-18s, based at Aviano AB, participated in bombing raids against Yugoslavia in Operation Allied Force in 1999. They also performed air-to-air combat air patrol missions, close air support air-to-ground missions, photo reconnaissance missions, forward air controller-airborne missions and tactical air controller-airborne missions over Bosnia.



CLIMATIC CONDITION

arid/ Med Climet

Mean Temp : varies

Version Operated : F-18C/D

Year entered Service: 1985- 1990 /1995-1999

To be continued


Even Typhoon is operated by Saudi Arabia , Uk, Germany & Italy.....
 

Soham

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to deploy in cold and hot environment
Is Alaska not cold enough and the Australian deserts not warm enough for the Super Hornets ?

As far as the heat is concerned, the airframes are designed to withstand much higher temperatures. The temp. at the leading edge of a supersonic fighter is 3.5 times the static temp. at that altitude.

Assuming a fighter to be flying at an altitude of 35,000 ft, the static temp. is found to be 218.87K. The Mach No. is taken to be 3.5.

Stagnation temp. (Temp. at the tip) can be calculated as :

To = (1 + 0.2 (3.5)2) 218.87 K = 755.1 K

When the afterburner is turned on, fuel is injected, which ignites readily, owing to the relatively high temperature of the incoming gases. The resulting combustion process increases the afterburner exit temperature significantly, resulting in a steep increase in engine net thrust. As well as an increase in afterburner exit stagnation temperature. And this steep increase is taken care of in the airframe composites and designs.

So you see ? Its the low temperatures that cause the problem.
 

natarajan

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another reason we can deploy f18 on chinese side and mig35 on pakistan side
 

Yusuf

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Natraj, any thought going into your post? It may well be a split order, but not on your lines of thinking or the lack of it.
 

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