Can u provide any link for your claim.....The French air force Rafale have Pesa where as Iaf has asked for Aesa which costs around 10-14 million $ a piece.....As per my knowledge The rafale is priced at around $75 million dollers where as F-16 costs around 55-60 million & F-18 costs 60-65 million $ ..
MMRCA news and discussions.
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John
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The Dutch who evaluated the Rafale/EF have given some price estimates and gives an insight into the real price of Rafale which is well over $130 million and lets not go into the prices estimates of the F-4 Rafale which will cost much more.
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John, the fly away cost of F-22 in 2008 was $ 137.5 million. Rafale comes nowhere close to Raptor so the 130 million cost per plane seems to be hyped.
youngindian
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IAF to test weapons abroad
New Delhi, July 26, 2009
Weapons on six Indian Air Force ( IAF) medium, multirole combat aircraft will be tested in the countries of their manufacture.
The weapons, about to undergo field tests after completion of technical evaluation, were to be tested in India. But, now that’s a distant possibility unless the six vendors choose to test them here.
An IAF source said testing the weapons abroad was necessary as it was difficult to replicate their home country conditions in India. Setting up the required infrastructure will also take long, thus delaying their procurement.
There were reports that the vendors were worried about the rise in insurance costs in India. Also, they would have to deal with many legal complications if they choose to test in a foreign country.
But, the aircraft on which these weapons are to be fitted will be field-tested in India. The F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet of Boeing will be the first aircraft to be tested. It has twin F- 414- GE engines with brand new avionics (electronic equipment). The aircraft also has a low- radar crosssection, making it tougher to detect the plane.
The field trial of the six aircraft will be held in Bangalore, Jaisalmer and Leh, in three phases. In the first phase, the test pilots will be trained. In the second, trials will be held in normal, hot and cold weather conditions.
The final phase will be the weapons’ trials that would take place abroad. The idea is to complete the trials by March-April, 2010.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/index....53542§ionid=4&secid=&Itemid=1&issueid=116
New Delhi, July 26, 2009
Weapons on six Indian Air Force ( IAF) medium, multirole combat aircraft will be tested in the countries of their manufacture.
The weapons, about to undergo field tests after completion of technical evaluation, were to be tested in India. But, now that’s a distant possibility unless the six vendors choose to test them here.
An IAF source said testing the weapons abroad was necessary as it was difficult to replicate their home country conditions in India. Setting up the required infrastructure will also take long, thus delaying their procurement.
There were reports that the vendors were worried about the rise in insurance costs in India. Also, they would have to deal with many legal complications if they choose to test in a foreign country.
But, the aircraft on which these weapons are to be fitted will be field-tested in India. The F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet of Boeing will be the first aircraft to be tested. It has twin F- 414- GE engines with brand new avionics (electronic equipment). The aircraft also has a low- radar crosssection, making it tougher to detect the plane.
The field trial of the six aircraft will be held in Bangalore, Jaisalmer and Leh, in three phases. In the first phase, the test pilots will be trained. In the second, trials will be held in normal, hot and cold weather conditions.
The final phase will be the weapons’ trials that would take place abroad. The idea is to complete the trials by March-April, 2010.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/index....53542§ionid=4&secid=&Itemid=1&issueid=116
what is a flyaway cost?? is that the price tag of the aircraft? If so, I read on an article F22 costs around $290 million a piece.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/JF22062509.xml&headline=Japan%20Could%20Be%20Offered%20$290%20Million%20F-22&channel=defense
J
John
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your right the unit cost of the f-22 is 137 million but its life time cost is around 290 to 300 million. The EF and Rafale wont come for less than 100 million euros. The Dutch quote is actually very correct because takes into account life time costs.
IAF to test weapons abroad
Weapons on six Indian Air Force ( IAF) medium, multirole combat aircraft will be tested in the countries of their manufacture.
The weapons, about to undergo field tests after completion of technical evaluation, were to be tested in India. But, now that’s a distant possibility unless the six vendors choose to test them here.
An IAF source said testing the weapons abroad was necessary as it was difficult to replicate their home country conditions in India. Setting up the required infrastructure will also take long, thus delaying their procurement.
There were reports that the vendors were worried about the rise in insurance costs in India. Also, they would have to deal with many legal complications if they choose to test in a foreign country.
But, the aircraft on which these weapons are to be fitted will be field-tested in India. The F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet of Boeing will be the first aircraft to be tested. It has twin F- 414- GE engines with brand new avionics (electronic equipment). The aircraft also has a low- radar crosssection, making it tougher to detect the plane.
The field trial of the six aircraft will be held in Bangalore, Jaisalmer and Leh, in three phases. In the first phase, the test pilots will be trained. In the second, trials will be held in normal, hot and cold weather conditions.
The final phase will be the weapons’ trials that would take place abroad. The idea is to complete the trials by March-April, 2010.
IAF to test weapons abroad: India Today - Latest Breaking News from India, World, Business, Cricket, Sports, Bollywood.
Weapons on six Indian Air Force ( IAF) medium, multirole combat aircraft will be tested in the countries of their manufacture.
The weapons, about to undergo field tests after completion of technical evaluation, were to be tested in India. But, now that’s a distant possibility unless the six vendors choose to test them here.
An IAF source said testing the weapons abroad was necessary as it was difficult to replicate their home country conditions in India. Setting up the required infrastructure will also take long, thus delaying their procurement.
There were reports that the vendors were worried about the rise in insurance costs in India. Also, they would have to deal with many legal complications if they choose to test in a foreign country.
But, the aircraft on which these weapons are to be fitted will be field-tested in India. The F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet of Boeing will be the first aircraft to be tested. It has twin F- 414- GE engines with brand new avionics (electronic equipment). The aircraft also has a low- radar crosssection, making it tougher to detect the plane.
The field trial of the six aircraft will be held in Bangalore, Jaisalmer and Leh, in three phases. In the first phase, the test pilots will be trained. In the second, trials will be held in normal, hot and cold weather conditions.
The final phase will be the weapons’ trials that would take place abroad. The idea is to complete the trials by March-April, 2010.
IAF to test weapons abroad: India Today - Latest Breaking News from India, World, Business, Cricket, Sports, Bollywood.
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The Most Important Down-select of All
July 24, 2009
There are all kinds of neat fighters for India to select for the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition. If one only looks at the features of each fighter and what kind of industry offsets are available from each competitor, one is missing the most important quality of all.
Sovereignty. For example if a U.S. aircraft is picked as the winner, all of those 126 fighters can be cut off from their supply chain or delivery of airframes stopped in an instant if India does something to cross the U.S.
Object lessons include Pakistan, Venezuela and Indonesia. Even Israel suffered a short delay of F-16s deliveries after bombing the Iraqi nuclear reactor many years ago. If you are a defense minister and you are going to put your name on such a huge fighter deal, best it be something that you can depend on without handing your sovereignty over to another country.
While various deals for U.S. arms have gone ahead, none of them involve something that can make India significantly weak as a huge fleet of fighter aircraft having their logistics cut off as the result for not playing ball with the U.S.
Happy handshakes with the U.S. aside, it is doubtful that India will sign up with the U.S. or any sovereignty-adverse competitor for this fighter deal. The risks are just too great.
The Most Important Down-select of All ELP Defens(c)e Blog
July 24, 2009
There are all kinds of neat fighters for India to select for the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition. If one only looks at the features of each fighter and what kind of industry offsets are available from each competitor, one is missing the most important quality of all.
Sovereignty. For example if a U.S. aircraft is picked as the winner, all of those 126 fighters can be cut off from their supply chain or delivery of airframes stopped in an instant if India does something to cross the U.S.
Object lessons include Pakistan, Venezuela and Indonesia. Even Israel suffered a short delay of F-16s deliveries after bombing the Iraqi nuclear reactor many years ago. If you are a defense minister and you are going to put your name on such a huge fighter deal, best it be something that you can depend on without handing your sovereignty over to another country.
While various deals for U.S. arms have gone ahead, none of them involve something that can make India significantly weak as a huge fleet of fighter aircraft having their logistics cut off as the result for not playing ball with the U.S.
Happy handshakes with the U.S. aside, it is doubtful that India will sign up with the U.S. or any sovereignty-adverse competitor for this fighter deal. The risks are just too great.
The Most Important Down-select of All ELP Defens(c)e Blog
A list of the weapons offered for MMRCA with MIG-35
IF THE WEAPONS ARE AS EFFECTIVE AS SPECIFIED THEN MIG-35 will pack a formidable punch
1.RVV-SD[ rma-sd in russian]-110 km range air-air missile,an upgraded version of rvv-ae with better guidance
2.RVV-MD[rma-md in russian]-40km range--similar to python 5
3.kab-500se--the russian answer to jdam/aasm
4.kab-1500lg-se--russian answer to enhanced paveway 3
5.kh-59mk2--285km russian anwer to slam-er
6.kh-35ue-260km range anti ship missile,,similar to and with better range than harpoon
7.kh-31ad and kh-31pd-170km range anti radiation[PD] and antiship missiles[AD]
8.KH-59USHKE AND kh-38me-precision missiles for killing radars and ships
IF THE WEAPONS ARE AS EFFECTIVE AS SPECIFIED THEN MIG-35 will pack a formidable punch
1.RVV-SD[ rma-sd in russian]-110 km range air-air missile,an upgraded version of rvv-ae with better guidance
2.RVV-MD[rma-md in russian]-40km range--similar to python 5
3.kab-500se--the russian answer to jdam/aasm
4.kab-1500lg-se--russian answer to enhanced paveway 3
5.kh-59mk2--285km russian anwer to slam-er
6.kh-35ue-260km range anti ship missile,,similar to and with better range than harpoon
7.kh-31ad and kh-31pd-170km range anti radiation[PD] and antiship missiles[AD]
8.KH-59USHKE AND kh-38me-precision missiles for killing radars and ships
Tamil
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No usa
To my option don't go for US. my humble request not to go for F/A-16 IN or F/A-18 SHThe Most Important Down-select of All
July 24, 2009
There are all kinds of neat fighters for India to select for the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition. If one only looks at the features of each fighter and what kind of industry offsets are available from each competitor, one is missing the most important quality of all.
Sovereignty. For example if a U.S. aircraft is picked as the winner, all of those 126 fighters can be cut off from their supply chain or delivery of airframes stopped in an instant if India does something to cross the U.S.
Object lessons include Pakistan, Venezuela and Indonesia. Even Israel suffered a short delay of F-16s deliveries after bombing the Iraqi nuclear reactor many years ago. If you are a defense minister and you are going to put your name on such a huge fighter deal, best it be something that you can depend on without handing your sovereignty over to another country.
While various deals for U.S. arms have gone ahead, none of them involve something that can make India significantly weak as a huge fleet of fighter aircraft having their logistics cut off as the result for not playing ball with the U.S.
Happy handshakes with the U.S. aside, it is doubtful that India will sign up with the U.S. or any sovereignty-adverse competitor for this fighter deal. The risks are just too great.
The Most Important Down-select of All ELP Defens(c)e Blog
Tamil
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John
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Russian missiles are un-reliable, they may be good but quality suffers. There is nothing in Russian inventory that can match the Python-5.
Tactical Missiles Corporation JSC
Tactical Missiles Corporation JSC
Tactical Missiles Corporation JSC
Russian's answer to the JDAM/AASM is not accurate enough, AASM has CEP of less than 1m. JDAM falls always within a 2 m CEP.
Tactical Missiles Corporation JSC
Russian Anti radar missiles can't hit shut down radars while US made AAGRM can do so easily. The Russian answer to the SLAM-ER is not as effective, SLAM-ER can hit ground targets moving well over 90km an hour. And by the way the XM-59 is as of now only deployed on the su-30. Russian PGMS also dont have the range of the US made PGMs. Besides if needed all of these weapons can fired from the su-30mki hence no need for the mig-35 it will fall short in avionics, roles compared to the others. Harpoon depending on the version has a range between 93-315 km which is still more than the Russian counter part and has commonality with SLAM/ER. Though we wont have access to them but the JSOW-ER out classes a lot of PGMS in Russian inventory the ER variant has a range of over 560 km, JASSM too has a range of 370km. Russia has nothing similar to the SDB which alone having a CEP of less than 2m can hit targets over 110KM and can deployed in 3 modes with ability to hit bunkers, moving and stationary targets. The SH can carry upto 24 SDB along with 4 A2A missiles in a single sortie. The Aim-120D far outclasses lot of Russian A2A missiles. Matter of fact even the Aim-120 C-5/7 out classes a lot of Russian missiles due to its reliability. Aim-120 C-5 has a max. range of around 110km and Aim-120 C-7 has a max range of around 140km. Aim-120 D launched by the F-22 at high alt and while supercruising can effectively hit a target over 200km away.
J
John
Guest
They are ideal choices keeping in mind Avionics, weapons flexibility, price and future upgradability. You gotta look at this the way the IAF and Govt. does, they know that we have to be careful with US but they also know the deal with US wont hamper any of their work simply because that they know the US can't afford to turn its back on India, not now, not ever. India still represents massive investment ops for US companies and the only market that can assure long term profitability and economies of scale are guaranteed. Besides contrary of what they tell u, even the Rafale's infamous SPECTRA was born in the US, built at Thales North America which will again require the US GOVT. clearing TOT. Rafale and EF gr8 as they are over priced and our proposed F-4/ T-3 variants as of yet dont exist and we'll have put in a lot of money to make sure we get what we want. The SH and Falcon will be hard to beat, the radar itself has almost double the range from other contenders, the weapons, the roles and the costs. looking at the way India is signing deals with the US i dont see any reason why India wont trust the US. Indo-US relations are growing and will continue to do so. get used to it. This deal is mother of all competitive deals and may the ideal plane win.
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John
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UPDATE 1-Eurofighter deal to be signed Friday
* Next production tranche finalised after talks on costs
* Signing to pave way for payments to manufacturers
(Adds background, details)
PARIS, July 29 (Reuters) - The nations behind the Eurofighter Typhoon will sign a contract confirming the next wave of combat jet production in Munich on Friday, the consortium building it said on Wednesday.
The signing of "tranche 3A" is seen as a key milestone to keep production lines open and pave the way for the release of payments to manufacturers EADS (EAD.PA), BAE Systems (BAES.L) and Finmeccanica (SIFI.MI).
Eurofighter was conceived 25 years ago and involves Germany, Spain, Italy and Britain building more than 600 high-performance fighter jets. Britain recommitted itself to the defence contract in May after political pressure from Germany.
To ease budget worries, buyer nations agreed to split the third and final tranche of orders into two parts, called 3A and 3B.
But industry sources said a final signature was held up by talks with the manufacturing consortium over government demands for extensive savings in long-term "life-cycle" costs.
Reuters reported on Friday that the contract was ready for signing this week [ID:nLO397688].
The move comes as global competition for fighter sales heats up. Eurofighter is among several models of combat jet competing for a major purchase contract in India. Saudi Arabia is in talks to buy more Eurofighters, sources said last month [ID:nLI7689].
The Eurofighter consortium comprises BAE Systems on behalf of Britain, the planemaking division of Italy's Finmeccanica and EADS, which represents both Germany and Spain.
EADS is also the manufacturer of the A400M military transport plane, which won a reprieve when seven countries, including Britain, Germany and Spain, agreed last week to renegotiate the project. [ID:nLO88089]
Britain had threatened to pull out of that project too due to concerns over a four-year delay in production. (Reporting by Tim Hepher; Editing by James Regan)
UPDATE 1-Eurofighter deal to be signed Friday | Industries | Industrials, Materials & Utilities | Reuters
* Next production tranche finalised after talks on costs
* Signing to pave way for payments to manufacturers
(Adds background, details)
PARIS, July 29 (Reuters) - The nations behind the Eurofighter Typhoon will sign a contract confirming the next wave of combat jet production in Munich on Friday, the consortium building it said on Wednesday.
The signing of "tranche 3A" is seen as a key milestone to keep production lines open and pave the way for the release of payments to manufacturers EADS (EAD.PA), BAE Systems (BAES.L) and Finmeccanica (SIFI.MI).
Eurofighter was conceived 25 years ago and involves Germany, Spain, Italy and Britain building more than 600 high-performance fighter jets. Britain recommitted itself to the defence contract in May after political pressure from Germany.
To ease budget worries, buyer nations agreed to split the third and final tranche of orders into two parts, called 3A and 3B.
But industry sources said a final signature was held up by talks with the manufacturing consortium over government demands for extensive savings in long-term "life-cycle" costs.
Reuters reported on Friday that the contract was ready for signing this week [ID:nLO397688].
The move comes as global competition for fighter sales heats up. Eurofighter is among several models of combat jet competing for a major purchase contract in India. Saudi Arabia is in talks to buy more Eurofighters, sources said last month [ID:nLI7689].
The Eurofighter consortium comprises BAE Systems on behalf of Britain, the planemaking division of Italy's Finmeccanica and EADS, which represents both Germany and Spain.
EADS is also the manufacturer of the A400M military transport plane, which won a reprieve when seven countries, including Britain, Germany and Spain, agreed last week to renegotiate the project. [ID:nLO88089]
Britain had threatened to pull out of that project too due to concerns over a four-year delay in production. (Reporting by Tim Hepher; Editing by James Regan)
UPDATE 1-Eurofighter deal to be signed Friday | Industries | Industrials, Materials & Utilities | Reuters
youngindian
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MMRCA trials to begin in Bangalore next week
New Delhi, July 31 (PTI) India's quest to buy 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) will shift gear when the flight trials of the six global contenders will begin in Bangalore next week with US major Boeing's warplane F/A-18 being the first contender.
"F/A-18 will be the first contender to arrive in India for the trails that will begin in Bangalore next week," top IAF officers said here today.
The US' Lockheed Martin F-16s, French D'Assault's Rafale, Swiss SAAB's Gripen, European consortium EADS' Eurofighter Typhoon and Russian MiG-35, the other five competitors for the USD 10-billion deal, will follow F/A-18, not necessarily in that order, for the first phase of the flight trials in India, they said.
After Bangalore, all contending aircraft will move to Leh for high altitude trials and to Jaisalmer for summer trials
fullstory
New Delhi, July 31 (PTI) India's quest to buy 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) will shift gear when the flight trials of the six global contenders will begin in Bangalore next week with US major Boeing's warplane F/A-18 being the first contender.
"F/A-18 will be the first contender to arrive in India for the trails that will begin in Bangalore next week," top IAF officers said here today.
The US' Lockheed Martin F-16s, French D'Assault's Rafale, Swiss SAAB's Gripen, European consortium EADS' Eurofighter Typhoon and Russian MiG-35, the other five competitors for the USD 10-billion deal, will follow F/A-18, not necessarily in that order, for the first phase of the flight trials in India, they said.
After Bangalore, all contending aircraft will move to Leh for high altitude trials and to Jaisalmer for summer trials
fullstory
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