MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

Sridhar_TN

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It’s too late to induct any other fighter jet other than the rafale if ‘western’ is the way to go. Unless you want to shoot yourself in the foot and throw the 7 billion dollar investment in the rafale down the drain, or try your level best to make the IAF go bankrupt, there is no other ‘western’ fighter that can be bought at this time. LMAO 😂 So people. Stop dreaming about F15’s, F16’s and F35’s. It’s getting kinda weird. It’s not going to happen anytime in the next decade.
The IAF is hell bent on acquiring more rafales. That’s their preference and the 36 jets deal kinda sealed the fate for western force inductions. India made its choice:French. Any other political or govt babu trying to bag an American fighter jet deal will draw only one conclusion: corruption. Lol. 😂

If American arms are the need of the hour, then the iAf has to go for more chinooks and apaches. Those are more important now than ever.
Wouldn’t mind throwing in a couple of B1 lancers too.
 
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Tridev123

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Right..surely the 10F15’s would be easily integrated...let’s forget about pilot training, induction costs, services caenter setup costs...let the logistics chain be comprised of Russian, Indian, French AND American planes.. what a great idea......slow claps 👏 👏
Come on, mam. I had stated that we could consider it if a full scale war breaks out with China. There are members here on the forum advocating induction of US troops(special forces) in Ladakh to face the PLA and saying that we should make an emergency buy/lease of 100 plus F16's. u

My proposal was valid only if we come under pressure from the Chinese. In war time normal rules for induction can change. There have been emergency purchases of aircraft in the past internationally even during World War 2. Precedents exist.

What is your plan if we have an air war with the PLAAF and lose quite a lot of fighters(the Chinese will lose more but they have more planes and can build faster).
If Russia had not sold the Su30 to the Chinese we could have acquired more Su30 mki from them. But now the Chinese are quite familiar with Russian aircraft and their technology. The Pakistanis must have leaked a lot of information on the F16 to their Chinese masters. The Chinese have already started putting AESA(let us not argue about their capability) radars on their J10 and other aircraft. The Su30 mki currently does not have a AESA radar.

One undeniable fact is that even though the F15 Ex is a non stealth aircraft it is a force multiplier. I am not saying we suck up to the Americans but should not reject any help if it helps us defeat the PLAAF. So it was a hypothetical purchase to cater for a hypothetical situation. Whether we like it or not the Chinese still trail behind the Western fighters technology wise but may have better fighters than the Russians.
 

Dessert Storm

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The link below talks about how Switzerland is going about buying 30-40 fighter aircraft:

1. The country had a referendum about 4 days ago and the electorate by a narrow majority of 50.1% of the vote decided that the country could spend upto $6.5 billion on buying 30-40 fighters for the Swiss airforce.

2. 4 aircraft were pre-selected to participate in the competition, Rafale, Eurofighter, FA-18 E/F and the F-35.

3. All 4 manufacturers have upto November 18 to submit proposals.

4. These proposals will be evaluated in the 1st half of 2021.

5. A decision as to which fighter has won the competition will be disclosed in June 2021.

Amazing, that they go from holding a country wide referendum to decide whether to buy a fighter to awarding a contract in 9 months. And being Switzerland if they see they will do it, it will be done. Now compare this with India's never ending protracted buying process for the armed forces.

Switzerland’s $6.5 billion fighter jet plan narrowly passes referendum
OT
Just because it's beautiful and just because it's referendum, don't be so over-awed.

Being Switzerland is not just skis, cheese and referendum. That's a country thriving on dirty money and more.
That's also a country where you pay a monetary penalty and get away with child *** offence(187(5)). They hold a referendum for making laws too. Hope you get the drift.

Referendum dosen't work in India.
 

Tridev123

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It’s too late to induct any other fighter jet other than the rafale if ‘western’ is the way to go. Unless you want to shoot yourself in the foot and throw the 7 billion dollar investment in the rafale down the drain, or try your level best to make the IAF go bankrupt, there is no other ‘western’ fighter that can be bought at this time. LMAO 😂 So people. Stop dreaming about F15’s, F16’s and F35’s. It’s getting kinda weird. It’s not going to happen anytime in the next decade.
The IAF is hell bent on acquiring more rafales. That’s their preference and the 36 jets deal kinda sealed the fate for western force inductions. India made its choice:French. Any other political or govt babu trying to bag an American fighter jet deal will draw only one conclusion: corruption. Lol. 😂

If American arms are the need of the hour, then the iAf has to go for more chinooks and apaches. Those are more important now than ever.
Wouldn’t mind throwing in a couple of B1 lancers too.
Nobody is going to dump the Rafale. It is a very good plane and the French are reliable. My proposal on very limited purchase of the F15 Ex was that it will be in addition to the Rafales. In a high attrition air war with China more planes are welcome if they help us defeat the PLAAF.

The F15 Ex is a force multiplier and need not be bought in large numbers. It is a hypothetical purchase to cater to a hypothetical situation where we require urgent replacements during a high intensity air war with the Chinese.

If War does not happen the best course of action would be additional Rafales and quick induction of the MWF/Tejas mk2 in large numbers. The Tejas mk1 and mk1a in large numbers can be used as point defence fighters. The AMCA should be pursued as future 5th generation aircraft.

All of us look forward to the days when we would neither need Russian or Western fighters and instead depend on our own indigenous fighters. Because we now have ongoing programmes in the light, medium and heavy aircraft class in the form of the LCA, MWF, and ORCA/AMCA. We need to progressively indigenise the major aircraft systems and sub systems. The engine, radar, ejection seats etc.
 

Flying Dagger

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Nobody is going to dump the Rafale. It is a very good plane and the French are reliable. My proposal on very limited purchase of the F15 Ex was that it will be in addition to the Rafales. In a high attrition air war with China more planes are welcome if they help us defeat the PLAAF.

The F15 Ex is a force multiplier and need not be bought in large numbers. It is a hypothetical purchase to cater to a hypothetical situation where we require urgent replacements during a high intensity air war with the Chinese.

If War does not happen the best course of action would be additional Rafales and quick induction of the MWF/Tejas mk2 in large numbers. The Tejas mk1 and mk1a in large numbers can be used as point defence fighters. The AMCA should be pursued as future 5th generation aircraft.

All of us look forward to the days when we would neither need Russian or Western fighters and instead depend on our own indigenous fighters. Because we now have ongoing programmes in the light, medium and heavy aircraft class in the form of the LCA, MWF, and ORCA/AMCA. We need to progressively indigenise the major aircraft systems and sub systems. The engine, radar, ejection seats etc.
In a high attrition war how would just 12 F-15 which will probably cost 3+ bn dollar are right choice when we can buy more Rafale for that price ?

And not to forget it will take another 3-5 years for them to come and become operational.
 

Tridev123

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In a high attrition war how would just 12 F-15 which will probably cost 3+ bn dollar are right choice when we can buy more Rafale for that price ?

And not to forget it will take another 3-5 years for them to come and become operational.
Regarding delivery times if the US cannot supply within our time frames then obviously it is not feasible. There are reports that the US Air force has already placed orders for a limited number of F15 Ex (near half a squadron) and probably the production process has started with various vendors in the supply chain asked to deliver.

As to why the F15 Ex and not double the Rafales please do a comparison of the specifications of both aircraft. Though both are force multipliers the F15 Ex surpasses the Rafale except probably in RCS. The Rafale has lower RCS. Just a couple of advantages of the F15 Ex - can carry as much as 10 bvr missiles and its much bigger AESA radar is better than the Rafale. Even the French would admit it.
It is a heavy air dominance fighter in the class of the Su30mki, though better. Why don't you do a comparative study of both fighters, if you are inclined to.

Compared to the F16 whose secrets Pakistan has digested fully and shared with the Chinese, the F15 Ex is not compromised.

A precondition for even thinking about an F15 Ex buy is that a full scale war has broken out with the Chinese. I think a majority would agree that air power would be the deciding factor in this conflict. If we can control the air battle we would be closer to victory in the Tibet theatre.
 

Sridhar_TN

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Come on, mam. I had stated that we could consider it if a full scale war breaks out with China. There are members here on the forum advocating induction of US troops(special forces) in Ladakh to face the PLA and saying that we should make an emergency buy/lease of 100 plus F16's. u

My proposal was valid only if we come under pressure from the Chinese. In war time normal rules for induction can change. There have been emergency purchases of aircraft in the past internationally even during World War 2. Precedents exist.

What is your plan if we have an air war with the PLAAF and lose quite a lot of fighters(the Chinese will lose more but they have more planes and can build faster).
If Russia had not sold the Su30 to the Chinese we could have acquired more Su30 mki from them. But now the Chinese are quite familiar with Russian aircraft and their technology. The Pakistanis must have leaked a lot of information on the F16 to their Chinese masters. The Chinese have already started putting AESA(let us not argue about their capability) radars on their J10 and other aircraft. The Su30 mki currently does not have a AESA radar.

One undeniable fact is that even though the F15 Ex is a non stealth aircraft it is a force multiplier. I am not saying we suck up to the Americans but should not reject any help if it helps us defeat the PLAAF. So it was a hypothetical purchase to cater for a hypothetical situation. Whether we like it or not the Chinese still trail behind the Western fighters technology wise but may have better fighters than the Russians.
The F15EX is not a force multiplier. It’s a regular fighter aircraft. Instead of that, more su30s Or migs can be acquired. F35s would be a force multiplier. For the numbers game, we can operate a number of mig29upg’s. They do a really goood job with their AESA radars and missiles as an interceptor/fighter. We can acquire plenty of the same instead of 10 f15s. These are more than enough for Chinese fighters. In a weird sense, the rafale is a very good
Introduction in the eastern theater to thwart the plaf.

As far as members suggesting the introduction Of US SF in Ladakh? If any one is seriously saying that, then it’s safe to say theyhave zero knowledge of SF operations and draw conclusions based on Hollywood movies. Indian SF is far more experienced and lethal in these regions than any other force. Forget para, the SFF are enough oto take on the pla. Case in point what happened recently with the SFF thwarting a recent pla incursion. US SF is not comparable to Indian SF in the full sense of the term ‘special’. Their training is different and their MO is different. They cannot walk/travel more than 7 Kms on foot. Anything beyond 7kms, they need air transport. Almost ALL their operations involve extensive air support. Thats one of the main reasons for their superior success rate. There is no need for US forces on ground anywhere close to India. It’s the other way round. For years, they have been trying to get Indian SF in Afghanistan. Primarily because they do not know how to deal with the taliban. Even after 20 years.
 
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Flying Dagger

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Regarding delivery times if the US cannot supply within our time frames then obviously it is not feasible. There are reports that the US Air force has already placed orders for a limited number of F15 Ex (near half a squadron) and probably the production process has started with various vendors in the supply chain asked to deliver.

As to why the F15 Ex and not double the Rafales please do a comparison of the specifications of both aircraft. Though both are force multipliers the F15 Ex surpasses the Rafale except probably in RCS. The Rafale has lower RCS. Just a couple of advantages of the F15 Ex - can carry as much as 10 bvr missiles and its much bigger AESA radar is better than the Rafale. Even the French would admit it.
It is a heavy air dominance fighter in the class of the Su30mki, though better. Why don't you do a comparative study of both fighters, if you are inclined to.

Compared to the F16 whose secrets Pakistan has digested fully and shared with the Chinese, the F15 Ex is not compromised.

A precondition for even thinking about an F15 Ex buy is that a full scale war has broken out with the Chinese. I think a majority would agree that air power would be the deciding factor in this conflict. If we can control the air battle we would be closer to victory in the Tibet theatre.
Probably in RCS ?

Surpasses Rafale in what ?

I should do a comparative study ? On what and why?

Anyway cook it it's fine 🙂
 

WolfPack86

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Lockheed Martin offers F-21 for India’s exclusive use

In an exclusive interaction with The Sunday Guardian, the top leadership of Lockheed Martin made a powerful pitch for the F-21 aircraft, by stating that its offer of not selling the aircraft to any other country if Indian Air Force (IAF) gave it the contract for 100-plus aircraft, was still on the table.

William L. Blair, Vice President and Chief Executive, Lockheed Martin India, and Brett Medlin, Campaign Lead-F-21 India, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics, told The Sunday Guardian that building the fighter aircraft in India was the next “natural step” for the company. The representatives of the US aerospace giant further added that India’s partnership on F-21 would lead to a future partnership for the use of F-35, arguably the most sophisticated fighter aircraft in the world right now. They also elaborated on why the F-21 and F-16 were totally different aircraft, contrary to concerns in some circles. Edited excerpts:

Q: Lockheed Martin has been offering F-16V (rebadged as F-21) to India. However, the concern among some sections in Delhi is that the aircraft is, to put it in a poetic term, “old wine in a new bottle”. How would you address this concern?


A: A-F-21 is our offering for the 114 Multi Role Fighter Aircraft (MRFA) programme. We are confident that the F-21 is the best solution to meet or exceed Indian Air Force’s capability needs, provide Make in India industrial opportunities, and accelerate India-US cooperation on advanced technologies, including, but not limited to, fighter aircraft.

While the aircraft structure may look familiar, the differences between F-21 and F-16 become clear when looking at the unique capabilities of the F-21, including:

* An advanced APG-83 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, which has detection ranges nearly double that of previous mechanically scanned array radars and the ability to track and attack more targets with higher precision.

* Cockpit upgrades, including a new Large Area Display (LAD) which enhances pilot situational awareness.

* An Advanced Electronic Warfare (EW) System, developed uniquely for India, that provides enhanced survivability against ground and air threats.

* Long-Range Infrared Search & Track (IRST), enabling pilots to passively detect threats.

* Triple Missile Launcher Adapters (TMLAs) allowing the F-21 to carry 40% more air-to-air weapons than previous F-16 designs.

* A Dorsal Fairing enabling increased growth capacity and indigenous systems integration in the future.

The F-21 is also the only fighter in the world capable of both probe/drogue and boom aerial fuelling capability. This, along with Conformal Fuel Tanks (CFTs), delivers greater range penetration and loiter staying power to the Indian Air Force.

The F-21 also delivers an advanced single-engine, multi-role fighter at the most optimal Life Cycle Cost for the Indian Air Force with the longest service life of any competitor—12,000 flight hours.

The F-21, in concert with India’s Rafale and Tejas, will fill a critical operational gap for the Indian Air Force.

Simply put, the F-21 goes further, faster, and stays longer than the competition. Whether you are talking about battlefields or budgets, the F-21 is the clear choice for India.

Q: The company has stated in the past that if it is given the IAF contract for 100 plus aircraft, it will not sell the F-21 to any other country except India. Does the offer still stand?

A: Indeed, the offer still stands.

The F-21 provides a landmark “Make in India” win and is the only offering that provides a pathway to exclusive production with future exports.

India’s presence in this robust fighter ecosystem via an F-21 selection would result in India being at the epicenter of a $165B market, with future opportunities to expand its footprint through further developing indigenous capabilities and global supplier relationships.

Q: The US State Department recently approved the sale of 105 F-35 joint strike fighters to Japan. Is Lockheed Martin offering the same to India? And if yes, how much will be the time required from the signing of the contract to the actual delivery?

A: The F-35 strengthens national security, enhances global partnerships and powers economic growth. Nine nations use the F-35 from their home soil, eight services have declared Initial Operating Capability and four services have employed F-35s in combat operations.

Any discussions on the sale of F-35 to India will have to begin at the government-to-government level. However, a partnership on the F-21 with Lockheed Martin—the designer and developer of the F-35—offers the Indian Air Force the clearest pathway to the F-35 in the future.

Q: Lockheed Martin has in the past offered to shift the production of the F-16 line from the United States to India. What is the present status of that offer?

A: The demand for the F-16 has been growing worldwide. In November 2019, we started a brand-new F-16 production line at Greenville, South Carolina, to cater to the increased demand.

As evidenced by our two successful joint ventures—Tata Lockheed Martin Aerostructures Limited (TLMAL) and Tata Sikorsky Aerospace Limited (TSAL)—present in India for over a decade now, we have a robust in-country infrastructure to promote indigenous manufacturing and participation in the global supply chain.

Building fighter wings in India is a natural next step that builds on our successful partnerships with Tata on the C-130J airlifter and S-92 helicopter. This is a strategic business decision that reflects the value of our partnerships with India and the confidence we have in Tata for this type of advanced defence manufacturing work.

In 2018, we announced that TLMAL will produce fighter wings and this work is currently underway at the Hyderabad facility.

We plan to further expand this partnership with India through our unprecedented F-21 offer for the Indian Air Force (IAF).

And let’s not focus solely on production. Lockheed Martin has the world’s largest fighter aircraft sustainment and MRO (maintenance, repair, and operations) market. The F-21 on offer would put Indian industry at the epicenter of this $165B market, further supporting Make in India and Self-Reliant India objectives. These opportunities for India remain unrivalled amongst the competition.

Q: What do you think about the government’s recent decision to scrap the offset policy?

A: The government has transitioned from the Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP) to the newly introduced Defence Acquisition Procedure (DAP) 2020. We applaud the Ministry of Defence and everyone that put together the DAP 2020, because they engaged with stakeholders ranging from Indian services, industry, think-tanks and even foreign OEMs for over a year. We had the chance to comment on this procedure as well.

Some improvements have been incorporated in DAP 2020 as there is an increased focus on acquisition, increased FDI attracting Transfer of Technology and setting higher targets for indigenous content. That brings opportunities that we will embrace.

An excellent example of increasing indigenous content is our C-130J empennage. We started its production 10 years ago and were importing parts. Now every empennage that is delivered around the world is built in Hyderabad and its content has been indigenized up to 87%. We are making further investments to increase its indigenization.

The Strategic Partnership model remains in the DAP. DAP 2020 has sought to develop and sustain aerospace and defence industrial bases in India. It is also going to create opportunities for companies like ourselves to increase our FDI in India, which is going to become important in upcoming strategic requirements.

Q: A lot of defence companies are competing in the Indian market. What, in your view, makes Lockheed Martin a good choice for a long-term relationship?

A: India is an important market for Lockheed Martin, and we have an established defence and aerospace footprint in the country that spans more than three decades.

The cornerstone of our strategy rests on building and nurturing partnerships with the Indian industry, with whom we share technology and capability and co-produce and co-develop for India and from India.

We continue to build upon our more than three decades of partnership with India, expand collaborations with local industry to support the growth of indigenous defence manufacturing ecosystem under the “AtmaNirbhar Bharat” Abhiyan, and further advance India’s strategic security and industrial capabilities.

Our successful Joint Ventures (JVs) in Hyderabad established over a decade ago—TLMAL and TSAL—are a testament of Lockheed Martin’s partnership with India and Indian industry.

Both the JVs have been instrumental in helping India achieve its goal of developing an aerospace and defence supplier ecosystem, promote indigenous manufacturing and participate in the global supply chain. Nearly 240 suppliers feed into these two joint ventures and have benefited from the vision of Lockheed Martin and Tata working together.

The JVs and partners we have established over the last decade have generated value flowed down to Indian Tier 1/2/3 large, Micro, Small & Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) and start-ups supporting a foundation for the defence and aerospace ecosystem in India; $600 million worth of exports have been generated by our JVs as well as the Indian suppliers that we have engaged with on greater global supply chain opportunities.

Lockheed Martin also has an unmatched track record of establishing robust industrial capacity and capabilities in countries across the world via our fourth and fifth generation platforms. An F-21 selection would further a relationship with Lockheed Martin.

Q: Considering that Lockheed Martin is the only company with fifth-generation fighters in active service; how are you leveraging these technologies for the F-21 programme? Additionally, what kind of assistance can Lockheed Martin offer for the development of indigenous Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA)?

A: Lockheed Martin is leveraging technologies across our entire fighter portfolio—not just backwards (i.e. 5th to 4th generation), but forward as well (4th to 5th generation).

In terms of fifth generation technologies being inserted into the F-21, I would like to point out our advanced Active Electronically Scanned Array radar. There are many shared technologies on this radar which have been derived from both the F-22, as well as the F-35. Compared to previous mechanically scanned array radars, the F-21s AESA radar has detection ranges nearly double that of legacy versions.

Furthermore, we are offering an advanced cockpit on the F-21 with a Large Area Display. This avionics suite is leveraging both hardware and software from our 5th generation fighters and will greatly enhance pilots’ situational awareness.

In terms of 4th to 5th generation technology insertion, we would like to point to our Automatic Ground Collision Avoidance System which was developed and fielded on our F-16, also included in our F-21 offering, and has recently been fielded on the F-35, for which Lockheed Martin received the prestigious Collier Trophy. This game-changing technology detects when the pilot(s) are disoriented or are at risk of losing control and automatically takes control of the aircraft. To-date, Auto-GCAS has saved 10 pilot lives.

In terms of Lockheed Martin’s support for AMCA, we would welcome that opportunity. Lockheed Martin has provided robust technical assistance with key allies across the globe with a demonstrated track record of success. Should the Government of India inquire via an Expression of Interest or other means to Lockheed Martin, we would look forward to responding. Certainly, the specifics of the technology assistance would need to be approved with the US Government.

Q: Lockheed Martin has been present in India for over three decades now. What kind of partnerships have you cultivated in the country and how have those partnerships contributed to the development of an indigenous aerospace and defence ecosystem in India?

A: We have been committed to building, trust, technology development and strategic collaboration with India.

As shared previously, our successful joint ventures in Hyderabad established over a decade ago—Tata Lockheed Martin Aerostructures Limited (TLMAL) and Tata Sikorsky Aerospace Limited (TSAL)—have been instrumental in helping India achieve its goal of developing an aerospace and defence supplier ecosystem, promote indigenous manufacturing and participating in the global supply chain.

The TLMAL facility manufactures major aerostructure components for the C-130J Super Hercules transport aircraft. This is the sole supplier of these components to Lockheed Martin and is an integral part of our global supply chain. To date, TLMAL has manufactured 130 C-130J empennages.

It also manufactures other aerostructure components like the center wing box. Recently, work has also begun to create a first-of-its-kind autoclave capability for composites.

TLMAL also employs 500 skilled team members and has been recognised globally for its job training programmes, including a women apprenticeship programme.

Our TSAL facility manufactures aerospace components for commercial helicopters and aircraft and has expanded to include aircraft engine components for aerospace industry companies as well. As of now, TSAL has delivered 154 S-92 cabins to date

Nearly 240 suppliers feed into these two joint ventures and have benefited from the vision of Lockheed Martin and Tata working together. Currently, we have integrated more than 70 Indian suppliers into our global supply chain.

Q: At DefExpo 2020, Lockheed Martin signed an MoU with Bharat Electronics Limited to explore industrial opportunities in the F-21 programme. Could you please elaborate on this nature of collaboration?

A: The F-21 will truly be a game-changer for the Indian Air Force, Indian industry, and India-US strategic ties.

At the 11th edition of DefExpo, we signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL), a premier aerospace and defence company in India, to explore industrial opportunities for the F-21 programme.

We are very excited about this MoU as BEL is a pre-eminent entity in the Indian aerospace ecosystem and has a proven ability and expertise in delivering sophisticated sensor systems. Furthermore, they have a knowledge and desire to work across the Indian defence ecosystem, while also having a long history of working with foreign suppliers.

Since DefExpo, our team has been actively engaged with BEL. To-date, we have sent them over a dozen RFIs to further understand their technical solutions as it relates to predominantly avionics systems in support of the F-21s advanced cockpit.

Q: The Lockheed Martin C-130J has been the backbone of the Indian Air Force in conducting humanitarian and tactical airlift missions. What kind of special configurations have been made to Indian C-130Js to enable the same?

A: The C-130 programme represents a strong legacy of partnership between the US and India. The Indian Air Force’s C-130J Super Hercules has a highly integrated and sophisticated configuration primarily designed to support India’s special operations requirement. Equipped with an Infrared Detection Set (IDS), the aircraft can perform precision low-level flying, airdrops and landing in blackout conditions.

Self-protection systems and other features are included to ensure aircraft survivability in hostile air defence environments. The aircraft are also equipped with air-to-air receiver refuelling capability for extended range operations.

India’s C-130Js have been used to support a variety of missions over the past few years, to include: humanitarian aid, natural disaster support (floods—an IAF C-130J was the first aircraft to land and extend support during the Nepal earthquake), airlift, search and rescue, and special operations.

Most recently, IAF has been extensively using the Indian Hercules for humanitarian efforts in the wake of the Covid-19 pandemic (for delivering critical medical equipment, medicines, PPEs, sanitizers and other essentials to remote places, airlifting teams of Indian military doctors to countries like Nepal, the Maldives and Kuwait), and for movement of man and material to the forward areas in light of the India-China border clash.

The IAF has even landed a C-130J at the world’s highest landing strip in the Himalayan Mountains (Daulat Beg Oldie) in 2013, making headlines around the world for achieving such a daunting feat.

The C-130J provides the Indian Air Force with a proven airlift solution that can truly deliver results for many different mission requirements. The C-130J’s capabilities can be expanded to support other critical future needs, to include tanking, search and rescue, and border patrol/security surveillance. The Lockheed Martin-100J commercial freighter also offers capabilities to support airlift requirements from India’s growing commercial market.

The C-130J is the only airlifter that can seamlessly handle all of India’s challenging terrain, from short, unprepared landing strips in the Himalayan Mountains to vast coastlines. The C-130J’s rugged reliability makes it an asset unmatched by other aircraft.

All C-130Js delivered to customers around the world have major aero-structure components from India included in their build through partnership with Tata in Hyderabad, India.

Empennage assemblies produced by TLMAL include the aircraft’s horizontal and vertical stabilizers along with leading edges and tip assemblies.

The C-130J is known as “one aircraft, many missions”. No aircraft in history or current operation can match the multi-mission versatility found in a C-130J Super Hercules, which to date can support 17 different requirements.

 

LDev

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OT
Just because it's beautiful and just because it's referendum, don't be so over-awed.

Being Switzerland is not just skis, cheese and referendum. That's a country thriving on dirty money and more.
That's also a country where you pay a monetary penalty and get away with child *** offence(187(5)). They hold a referendum for making laws too. Hope you get the drift.

Referendum dosen't work in India.
I am not awed by the referendum. I am awed by the speed at which the whole process will conclude once a GO-NO GO decision is made. It just so happens that in the case of Switzerland that GO-NO GO decision is made via the referendum.
 

Dessert Storm

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I am not awed by the referendum. I am awed by the speed at which the whole process will conclude once a GO-NO GO decision is made. It just so happens that in the case of Switzerland that GO-NO GO decision is made via the referendum.
I meant the soul. Not the body of what you said. Pakis are efficient at exporting terrorism. That may be awesome efficiency, but it's rotten.
 

Tridev123

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Probably in RCS ?

Surpasses Rafale in what ?

I should do a comparative study ? On what and why?

Anyway cook it it's fine 🙂
If you feel that the Rafale is superior to the F15 Ex in all aspects, good luck to you.
You are free to hold your opinion.
But I guess the French will be flattered.
 

vishnugupt

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One thing I have never understood, Despite of 36 Rafale and possibly 36 more in future ( which is twice capable compare to Su-30mki, According to IAF ) why this 114 numbers are not going away?? the only thing change is, some times it become light category ( Gripen ) and some times its Medium range but requirement remain the same.

Could anybody suggest some therapy or electric shock to Chief, in order to help him forget these numbers??

If we allowed IAF to import 114 jets then we will found Tejas mK2 at the place where MK1A is. Waiting....Waiting...... because no funds available.
 

shade

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One thing I have never understood, Despite of 36 Rafale and possibly 36 more in future ( which is twice capable compare to Su-30mki, According to IAF ) why this 114 numbers are not going away?? the only thing change is, some times it become light category ( Gripen ) and some times its Medium range but requirement remain the same.

Could anybody suggest some therapy or electric shock to Chief, in order to help him forget these numbers??

If we allowed IAF to import 114 jets then we will found Tejas mK2 at the place where MK1A is. Waiting....Waiting...... because no funds available.
Because it's for 10 years in the future, I mean that is how long it usually takes for these meme MMRCA type swayamwars to materialize into a signed contract.
Hopefully till then GoI shoves it's boot in the Dalals behinds, and it's other boot into DRDO/HALs behind to boost Tejas order numbers from current 83 and production numbers per year also.
 

Immanuel

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One thing I have never understood, Despite of 36 Rafale and possibly 36 more in future ( which is twice capable compare to Su-30mki, According to IAF ) why this 114 numbers are not going away?? the only thing change is, some times it become light category ( Gripen ) and some times its Medium range but requirement remain the same.

Could anybody suggest some therapy or electric shock to Chief, in order to help him forget these numbers??

If we allowed IAF to import 114 jets then we will found Tejas mK2 at the place where MK1A is. Waiting....Waiting...... because no funds available.
Can you please share a source for the supposed IAF claim that the Rafale is twice as capable as the MKI?

Rafale is great platform but in the Indian context, it will take atleast another 5-7 years before it can match the weapons flexibility of the MKI
 

Swiftfarts

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Can you please share a source for the supposed IAF claim that the Rafale is twice as capable as the MKI?

Rafale is great platform but in the Indian context, it will take atleast another 5-7 years before it can match the weapons flexibility of the MKI
Technology wise Rafale is more capable period.
 

Flying Dagger

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Technology wise Rafale is more capable period.
Yes it is because we haven't upgraded Sukhoi to its latest iteration yet. It's like comparing Rafale F1 with Rafale F4 .

Because it's for 10 years in the future, I mean that is how long it usually takes for these meme MMRCA type swayamwars to materialize into a signed contract.
Hopefully till then GoI shoves it's boot in the Dalals behinds, and it's other boot into DRDO/HALs behind to boost Tejas order numbers from current 83 and production numbers per year also.
The number 114 is MRFA that is Rafale or .. as they may opt for another platform instead if cost factor goes out of hand.

My only complain is if they were really looking for anything other than Rafale then they should have never gone for 33 Su+Migs and finalise it asap.

And they should have never picked Rafale in the first place if it's just abt cost factor because they knew it from the beginning that it will cost a bomb.
 

LDev

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And they should have never picked Rafale in the first place if it's just abt cost factor because they knew it from the beginning that it will cost a bomb.
I think the primary reason for picking the Rafale was as a nuke delivery platform. The IAF needed a nuke delivery aircraft that could replace the Mirage 2000. The ability of the Mirage 2000, a 35 year old aircraft, to penetrate even Pakistan air space was in doubt in the years ahead, even Balakot was a very shallow penetration. And the willingness of France to enable the hard wiring needed for nuke delivery was the deciding factor. The fact that the long range Meteor AAM was going to be integrated shortly was a bonus. The big, big downside is the cost of the aircraft and the cost of all French munitions. And that is why now that 36 Rafale have taken care of the nuke delivery role, the IAF will do a cost benefit analysis of the options on the table for the 114 MRFA. Do they go for more Rafale with another 114 being cheaper than the original batch of 36, on a per aircraft basis, but will almost certainly be still more expensive than any of the other fighters which are competing. Or they do go for a completely new type of aircraft such as a US offering, which will be definitely cheaper both in terms of the aircraft and munitions, but which will entail a whole new platform system to be integrated into the IAF. One other factor which I think is important is that the IAF currently does not have a modern version of a fighter which can also perform a credible strike role. After the Mig 27s have retired and while the Jaguars have been upgraded, the weak engine of the Jaguar is still a huge liability, the IAF has been left without a cost effective strike function. Not necessarily a CAS role, but a more modern interpretation of the strike role.
 

Trololo

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No need for new type fighters to add to our plane zoo. IMO a staggered purchase of 6 Rafale squadrons is good enough for MRFA. By the time these materialise in 2025-26 as far as deliveries and inductions go(2 squadrons by 2022, 2 more by 2024, and 2 more by 2026), the MWF will be ready and 83 Mk1As will have been delivered. 6 squadrons is 108 aircraft. Balance can be filled in with MWF. In between if in the next 1 year the specs for the Su-30 upgrade can be finalised and contract signed, then that will also add to our capabilities big time. That also negates the role of the Jaguar eventually, and it should be slowly eased out before 2030.
 

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