MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

[Swiftfarts]

More Rafale will be the idle choice. It's better than any russian options out there.

 

[WolfPack86]

India Mulls Buying F-15EX Fighter Jets From the US: Will They Give IAF Air Superiority Over China?
After Rafale, India To Buy F-15EX Fighter Jets From Boeing




The new jets are developed by aerospace giant Boeing, and are reportedly being offered to India by the United States. The two-seat fighter possesses a deep magazine that can carry an array of advanced weapons on board and overshadows its predecessor F-15s



India is reportedly planning to buy F-15EX fighter jets, a new type of aircraft, to further strengthen its aerospace arsenal amid growing border tensions with China and Pakistan. The new aircraft is believed to be the most advanced version of the F-15 fighter jets ever and the United States has also reportedly shown interest in selling these advanced fighter jets to India.



Despite India reaching a five-point consensus with China, including the disengagement of respective soldiers from the contested Himalayan Border, it makes sense for the country to procure F-15EX fighter jets given that the years-long tension between the bordering countries is not likely to ease so soon. India recently inducted the first set of five Rafale jets into the Indian Air Force (IAF), which is bolstering its air fleet and an inclusion of F-15EX jets will only add strength to it.



Inside India's Aerospace Plans



India has reportedly been offered F-15EX fighter jet following another week of military tensions at its borders with China and Pakistan. The new jets are developed by aerospace giant Boeing, and are being offered to India by the United States, according to a Eurasian Times report. The two-seat fighter possesses a deep magazine that can carry an array of advanced weapons on board and overshadows its predecessor F-15s because of its Open Mission Systems (OMS) architecture.



"The most significant difference between the F-15EX and legacy F-15s lies in its Open Mission Systems (OMS) architecture. The OMS architecture will enable the rapid insertion of the latest aircraft technologies," Boeing has said. Besides offering the jets to India, the United States has itself reportedly secured a contract with Boeing for eight of the fighters.

The contract is estimated to be around $1.2 billion. However, this figure could be set to dramatically increase as the US Air Force has said it could order as many as 144 of the upgraded jets, the report adds.



India Cautious



Needless to say, if India at all decides to procure F-15EX fighter jets, it will be a wise decision. India recently reached a 'five-point consensus' with China after foreign ministers from both nations met in Moscow last week, there isn't any assurance that tensions will cease given the past history of frequent engagements of forces in conflicts on either side of the border.



Moreover, India and Pakistan too have been trading gunfire over the Line of Control (LoC) which separates the two countries in frequent intervals, which makes even more sense for India to strengthen its aerospace arsenal. India recently inducted the first five of the 36 French Dassault 4.5 generation Rafale Jets, which is considered to be a promising sign for the IAF which is bolstering its air fleet. However, India needs to further strengthen its air force by procuring more advanced fighters as it needs to be ready for a possible two-front war.



Although the F-15EX fighters are not stealth fighters like most of United States' advanced F-35 fighter jets, the F-15EX fighters have a potent deterrent capability as compared to the smaller F-35s and are also able to attain air supremacy and even outdo the F-35 fighters.

India Mulls Buying F-15EX Fighter Jets From the US: Will They Give IAF Air Superiority Over China?

F-15EX Strike Eagle is an American all-weather multirole strike fighter After Rafale, India To Buy F-15EX Fighter Jets From Boeing ...

www.indiandefensenews.in

 

[Dessert Storm]

100% the best decision we can make
Build up rafale and tejas simultaneously so by 2030 we have
80 rafale block 3 and 4
120 tejas mark 1a
That's 200 aesa fighters with low maintenance western technology low rcs.
In 2028 revisit 5th gen threat
Ie plaaf progress on j20
Pak bull shit azm versus j31 purchase and decide on either
Su57 interim purchase 50 planes or f35 lightening purchase if USA is serious ally
Amca is too far away boys I can't see this in Indian power until 2040
We need interim solution by 2030

Agree with you for the most part. However,
a working Su57 would be a better purchase in limited numbers for the following reasons:
(1) Gels with the current IAF mix of Light Medium Heavy.
(2) Would help us upgrade MKIs further with 5th Gen tech from SU57.
(3) With us developing tech for AMCA, there might be a case where we can MKIse the SU57.
(4) Wingman
(5) Indigenous manufacture of heavies is a natural progression from Mediums that we plan to manufacture in 2020s n 30s.
* F35 also would be great but I lean towards SU57 because it would be good enough to take care of threats in our envelope of influence plus would be giving us more room to experiment with it.

Testing and Induction of MWF would be a huge pointer to our time lines on AMCA.

Going for a 5th Generation plane in late 2020s is not an interim solution for me. It's a natural progression in acquisition for IAF, for the reasons I already mentioned. Yes there would be talk of funds cuz we would have already upgraded SUs, Jags plus set aside budget for acquiring MWF but then we would be a bigger economy too.

 

[WolfPack86]

India Mulls Buying F-15EX Fighter Jets From the US: Will They Give IAF Air Superiority Over China?
India is reportedly planning to buy F-15EX fighter jets, a new type of aircraft, to further strengthen its aerospace arsenal amid growing border tensions with China and Pakistan. The new aircraft is believed to be the most advanced version of the F-15 fighter jets ever and the United States has also reportedly shown interest in selling these advanced fighter jets to India.


Despite India reaching a five-point consensus with China, including the disengagement of respective soldiers from the contested Himalayan Border, it makes sense for the country to procure F-15EX fighter jets given that the years-long tension between the bordering countries is not likely to ease so soon. India recently inducted the first set of five Rafale jets into the Indian Air Force (IAF), which is bolstering its air fleet and an inclusion of F-15EX jets will only add strength to it.

Inside India’s Aerospace Plans

India has reportedly been offered F-15EX fighter jet following another week of military tensions at its borders with China and Pakistan. The new jets are developed by aerospace giant Boeing, and are being offered to India by the United States, according to a Eurasian Times report. The two-seat fighter possesses a deep magazine that can carry an array of advanced weapons on board and overshadows its predecessor F-15s because of its Open Mission Systems (OMS) architecture.


“The most significant difference between the F-15EX and legacy F-15s lies in its Open Mission Systems (OMS) architecture. The OMS architecture will enable the rapid insertion of the latest aircraft technologies,” Boeing has said. Besides offering the jets to India, the United States has itself reportedly secured a contract with Boeing for eight of the fighters.

India Mulls Buying F-15EX Fighter Jets From the US: Will They Give IAF Air Superiority Over China? - Defence News India

India is reportedly planning to buy F-15EX fighter jets, a new type of aircraft, to further strengthen its aerospace arsenal amid growing border tensions with China and Pakistan. The new aircraft is believed to be the most advanced version of the F-15 fighter jets

www.defenceaviationpost.com

 

[Tridev123]

If the standoff with China prolongs then probably India can consider a small buy of F15Ex fighters. Maybe half a squadron strength 10 planes, if they can be supplied quickly.
Will be a test case to gauge American behaviour. If excessive preconditions are imposed we should simply drop the purchase. If the US treats us an equal and provides the aircraft on terms similar to the French, then maybe we can consider.

The aircraft itself is good and will match almost all PLAAF fighters. It is non stealth and has a relatively large RCS. It's OK as most Chinese aircraft with the exception of the J20 and J31 are non stealth. Its AN/APG - 82(v)3 AESA radar is far better than Chinese AESA radars. It carries almost 14 tonnes of ordinance. So if the Americans supply the aircraft along with its associated weapons package like Amraams etc,it will be a big deterrent against the Chinese.

A small 10 aircraft order means we cannot be held hostage by the Americans if things go bad. We have other heavy weight platforms like the Su30mki's.
If we have an unpleasant experience we also become wiser and simply avoid US planes in the future.

On the other hand if the Americans are reasonable and give good service we can consider future purchases after evaluating the merits of the case.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

the standoff with China prolongs then probably India can consider a small buy of F15Ex fighters. Maybe half a squadron strength 10 planes

Bhai Jet khareed rahe hai scooty bike nhi.
10 jets ko maintain kase kro ge? Spares kha s lao ge? Infrastructure kase banao ge? And only 10 jets ko operate krne me cost kita jyda lage ga?
10 F-15x kyui khareed ne jabh wo same su-30 wali category k aircraft hai is s better hai ki is khichdi s bacho and rafale hi lelo.

 

[Tridev123]

Bhai Jet khareed rahe hai scooty bike nhi.
10 jets ko maintain kase kro ge? Spares kha s lao ge? Infrastructure kase banao ge? And only 10 jets ko operate krne me cost kita jyda lage ga?
10 F-15x kyui khareed ne jabh wo same su-30 wali category k aircraft hai is s better hai ki is khichdi s bacho and rafale hi lelo.

Aap sahi kehre hai but not fully right.
We are a big country having big needs and also quite big economy.
Small countries like Greece, many Asian and African countries with small GDP can only afford planes in single digits sometimes. So fighters have been sold in very limited numbers to such countries.. How do they manage. Probably the seller does the maintenance and other routine activities. So precedents exist.

Reason why I did not advocate large numbers is we don't want the US to blackmail us. Also since we have similar weight category fighter in the Su30mki's does not make sense to buy large numbers. Also we want to see what problems we will encounter after buying US fighters.

As regards the merit of the buy, the F15Ex as of today offers something more than the Su30mki's. A big AESA radar, advanced Aam missiles, Standoff bombs, more payload than the Su30mki's etc.
This very limited buy is meant to cater for an emergency situation on the China border if war breaks out. The payload is even higher than the Rafale 14 tonnes against 9.5 tonnes.

 

[doreamon]

Best choice is to buy another 114 rafale and proceed towards AMCA and tejas mk2. And this shd be our last foreign purchase.. Over and out . It ll ensure less training cost for both training and maintainance crew also less burden on logistics . Lets nt make a khichdi of our airforce by buying 10 f15ex, 20 su57 , 20 f35 or whatever people here are suggesting .

 

[Trololo]

If the standoff with China prolongs then probably India can consider a small buy of F15Ex fighters. Maybe half a squadron strength 10 planes, if they can be supplied quickly.
Will be a test case to gauge American behaviour. If excessive preconditions are imposed we should simply drop the purchase. If the US treats us an equal and provides the aircraft on terms similar to the French, then maybe we can consider.

The aircraft itself is good and will match almost all PLAAF fighters. It is non stealth and has a relatively large RCS. It's OK as most Chinese aircraft with the exception of the J20 and J31 are non stealth. Its AN/APG - 82(v)3 AESA radar is far better than Chinese AESA radars. It carries almost 14 tonnes of ordinance. So if the Americans supply the aircraft along with its associated weapons package like Amraams etc,it will be a big deterrent against the Chinese.

A small 10 aircraft order means we cannot be held hostage by the Americans if things go bad. We have other heavy weight platforms like the Su30mki's.
If we have an unpleasant experience we also become wiser and simply avoid US planes in the future.

On the other hand if the Americans are reasonable and give good service we can consider future purchases after evaluating the merits of the case.

Respectfully disagree. IAF is a big plane zoo from various sources already. No need to complicate it further. Order another 6 squadrons of Rafales and make that the last imported plane in the IAF.

 

[WolfPack86]

India Mulls Buying F-15EX Fighter Jets From the US: Will They Give IAF Air Superiority Over China?
India is reportedly planning to buy F-15EX fighter jets, a new type of aircraft, to further strengthen its aerospace arsenal amid growing border tensions with China and Pakistan. The new aircraft is believed to be the most advanced version of the F-15 fighter jets ever and the United States has also reportedly shown interest in selling these advanced fighter jets to India.

Despite India reaching a five-point consensus with China, including the disengagement of respective soldiers from the contested Himalayan Border, it makes sense for the country to procure F-15EX fighter jets given that the years-long tension between the bordering countries is not likely to ease so soon. India recently inducted the first set of five Rafale jets into the Indian Air Force (IAF), which is bolstering its air fleet and an inclusion of F-15EX jets will only add strength to it.

Inside India's Aerospace Plans

India has reportedly been offered F-15EX fighter jet following another week of military tensions at its borders with China and Pakistan. The new jets are developed by aerospace giant Boeing, and are being offered to India by the United States, according to a Eurasian Times report. The two-seat fighter possesses a deep magazine that can carry an array of advanced weapons on board and overshadows its predecessor F-15s because of its Open Mission Systems (OMS) architecture.

"The most significant difference between the F-15EX and legacy F-15s lies in its Open Mission Systems (OMS) architecture. The OMS architecture will enable the rapid insertion of the latest aircraft technologies," Boeing has said. Besides offering the jets to India, the United States has itself reportedly secured a contract with Boeing for eight of the fighters.

The contract is estimated to be around $1.2 billion. However, this figure could be set to dramatically increase as the US Air Force has said it could order as many as 144 of the upgraded jets, the report adds.

India Cautious

Needless to say, if India at all decides to procure F-15EX fighter jets, it will be a wise decision. India recently reached a 'five-point consensus' with China after foreign ministers from both nations met in Moscow last week, there isn't any assurance that tensions will cease given the past history of frequent engagements of forces in conflicts on either side of the border.

Moreover, India and Pakistan too have been trading gunfire over the Line of Control (LoC) which separates the two countries in frequent intervals, which makes even more sense for India to strengthen its aerospace arsenal. India recently inducted the first five of the 36 French Dassault 4.5 generation Rafale Jets, which is considered to be a promising sign for the IAF which is bolstering its air fleet. However, India needs to further strengthen its air force by procuring more advanced fighters as it needs to be ready for a possible two-front war.

Although the F-15EX fighters are not stealth fighters like most of United States' advanced F-35 fighter jets, the F-15EX fighters have a potent deterrent capability as compared to the smaller F-35s and are also able to attain air supremacy and even outdo the F-35 fighters.

India Contemplating Buying F-15EX Fighter Jets: Will it Give IAF an Upper Hand Against China?

The new jets are developed by aerospace giant Boeing, and are reportedly being offered to India by the United States.

www.ibtimes.sg

 

[Tridev123]

Best choice is to buy another 114 rafale and proceed towards AMCA and tejas mk2. And this shd be our last foreign purchase.. Over and out . It ll ensure less training cost for both training and maintainance crew also less burden on logistics . Lets nt make a khichdi of our airforce by buying 10 f15ex, 20 su57 , 20 f35 or whatever people here are suggesting .

I don't disagree with you. I also proposed more Rafales with local manufacturing and some good technology transfer to India.

I was suggesting a very limited buy under extraordinary circumstances (if we come under pressure from the Chinese).

If the present crisis fizzles out then other than the Rafales we need to accelerate our Tejas mk2 or MWF. The MWF will be a match for the J10 and if we get good Aesa radars and other equipment may even challenge the Pakistani Block 52 F16.
The AMCA is still a decade away as it is a complex 5th generation plane.
On the other hand the MWF can be mass produced cheaper.
We need the MWF in 5 years. But will the system deliver.
The HAL, ADA etc all have a hard earned reputation for delay.

 

[Tridev123]

Respectfully disagree. IAF is a big plane zoo from various sources already. No need to complicate it further. Order another 6 squadrons of Rafales and make that the last imported plane in the IAF.

I also wish that we never come under a situation where we are forced to consider such emergency measures.
There are no two thoughts on the Rafales. More Rafales is a given.
How much more is the question.

 

[Knowitall]

Bhai Jet khareed rahe hai scooty bike nhi.
10 jets ko maintain kase kro ge? Spares kha s lao ge? Infrastructure kase banao ge? And only 10 jets ko operate krne me cost kita jyda lage ga?
10 F-15x kyui khareed ne jabh wo same su-30 wali category k aircraft hai is s better hai ki is khichdi s bacho and rafale hi lelo.

Forum members love to live in fantasy land.

Rafale bhi lelo f-15 bhi f-35 mile wo bhi lelo kuch logo ko f-16 bhi chahiye gripen bhi acha hai.

IAF nahi shadi ka buffet ban chuka hai sab kuch todha todha lelo.

 

[The Maverick]

It's all nonsense we need rafale more planes and then developed lca Amca going forward. No matter how long or costly it becomes .
We need a massive world class efficient aerospace industry like dare I say China or even France UK etc

 

[Tuco]

Do you guys think we still will be discussing about MMRCA at the time this goes to production.

 

[WolfPack86]

Indian Air Force to have more fighter squadrons in this decade, says Deputy IAF Chief
The number of fighter squadrons in the Indian Air Force is expected to improve in a decade’s time, says the Deputy Chief of Air Force Air Marshal Sandeep Singh. In his address at a webinar which was jointly organized by Centre for Air Power Studies and Society of Indian Defence Manufacturers, the deputy Chief of IAF said, “The IAF will have around 37-38 fighter squadrons in a decade.” The IAF currently has around 30 squadrons as against the authorized strength of 42 fighter squadrons.

Talking about the 114 fighter aircraft deal which is underway, he said, “The `Make in India’ initiative as mentioned in the recently released Defence Acquisition Procedure (DAP) 2020 will be taken into consideration.”

Based on the new DAP, which will be applicable soon, to seek higher levels of production technology and use of indigenous systems and materials where possible for the 114 fighter deal, the IAF has already realigned their Statement of Case (SoC). And, as has been reported recently, the IAF is expected to approach the government for accord of the Acceptance of Necessity (AoN). Once the AoN is issued, the formal procurement process would begin. The new DAP 2020 comes into effect from October 1, 2020.


Modernization of the Fighter Fleet

According to Air Marshal Sandeep Singh, “The rate at which the drawdown is taking place the Mig-21s will have to go. And the other fighters are getting upgraded which are making them more capable. Assuming there are no delays in the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) variant, by the end of the decade the IAF will hit around 37-38 squadrons.” Also, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) induction is expected to start by the end of the decade.

Stating that the fleet will be much more capable by then, he said, “Our adversaries are also getting technologically superior and more number of aircraft.”

Leasing of Midair Refueller

Due to the financial crunch, the purchase of mid-air refuelling aircraft has been delayed. Now the IAF is mulling on dry leasing these platforms. “Those companies which have been approved under the DAP 2020, could be aggregators of these platforms which have been allowed under the new procedure,” the deputy chief said.

Though the IAF has six Russian IL-78 tankers, it has been trying to get six more but the deal has been getting delayed repeatedly.

UAVs

In face of the increasing threat of drones and with various agencies looking for counter-drone systems, according to the top officer of the IAF, “the Anti-drone systems should be under a national policy as it would be required by various agencies.”

The decision to purchase 127 Medium Altitude Long Endurance (MALE) Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV), is expected to be taken soon. Since the IAF is the lead service, it has to decide whether it is ‘Buy Indian’ or ‘Buy and Make Indian’ of the procurement procedure.

Indian Air Force to have more fighter squadrons in this decade, says Deputy IAF Chief

The number of fighter squadrons in the Indian Air Force is expected to improve in a decade’s time, says the Deputy Chief of Air Force Air Marshal Sandeep Singh. In his address at a webinar which was jointly organized by Centre for Air Power Studies and Society of Indian Defence Manufacturers...

www.defencenews.in

 

[LDev]

The link below talks about how Switzerland is going about buying 30-40 fighter aircraft:

1. The country had a referendum about 4 days ago and the electorate by a narrow majority of 50.1% of the vote decided that the country could spend upto $6.5 billion on buying 30-40 fighters for the Swiss airforce.

2. 4 aircraft were pre-selected to participate in the competition, Rafale, Eurofighter, FA-18 E/F and the F-35.

3. All 4 manufacturers have upto November 18 to submit proposals.

4. These proposals will be evaluated in the 1st half of 2021.

5. A decision as to which fighter has won the competition will be disclosed in June 2021.

Amazing, that they go from holding a country wide referendum to decide whether to buy a fighter to awarding a contract in 9 months. And being Switzerland if they see they will do it, it will be done. Now compare this with India's never ending protracted buying process for the armed forces.

Switzerland’s $6.5 billion fighter jet plan narrowly passes referendum

 

[Swiftfarts]

Switzerland will probably go for F 35

 

[Trololo]

Agree with you for the most part. However,
a working Su57 would be a better purchase in limited numbers for the following reasons:
(1) Gels with the current IAF mix of Light Medium Heavy.
(2) Would help us upgrade MKIs further with 5th Gen tech from SU57.
(3) With us developing tech for AMCA, there might be a case where we can MKIse the SU57.
(4) Wingman
(5) Indigenous manufacture of heavies is a natural progression from Mediums that we plan to manufacture in 2020s n 30s.
* F35 also would be great but I lean towards SU57 because it would be good enough to take care of threats in our envelope of influence plus would be giving us more room to experiment with it.

Testing and Induction of MWF would be a huge pointer to our time lines on AMCA.

Going for a 5th Generation plane in late 2020s is not an interim solution for me. It's a natural progression in acquisition for IAF, for the reasons I already mentioned. Yes there would be talk of funds cuz we would have already upgraded SUs, Jags plus set aside budget for acquiring MWF but then we would be a bigger economy too.

I think IAF is hell bent for a Western platform or a Western influenced one. As Air Marshal Nambiar said in his interview to Shiv Aroor, even the LCA is Western influenced and is a mini Mirage 2000. Keeping this in mind I don’t think they will opt for Su-57. IAF has already voiced several concerns about the Su-57 already.

 

[Sridhar_TN]

If the standoff with China prolongs then probably India can consider a small buy of F15Ex fighters. Maybe half a squadron strength 10 planes, if they can be supplied quickly.
Will be a test case to gauge American behaviour. If excessive preconditions are imposed we should simply drop the purchase. If the US treats us an equal and provides the aircraft on terms similar to the French, then maybe we can consider.

The aircraft itself is good and will match almost all PLAAF fighters. It is non stealth and has a relatively large RCS. It's OK as most Chinese aircraft with the exception of the J20 and J31 are non stealth. Its AN/APG - 82(v)3 AESA radar is far better than Chinese AESA radars. It carries almost 14 tonnes of ordinance. So if the Americans supply the aircraft along with its associated weapons package like Amraams etc,it will be a big deterrent against the Chinese.

A small 10 aircraft order means we cannot be held hostage by the Americans if things go bad. We have other heavy weight platforms like the Su30mki's.
If we have an unpleasant experience we also become wiser and simply avoid US planes in the future.

On the other hand if the Americans are reasonable and give good service we can consider future purchases after evaluating the merits of the case.

Right..surely the 10F15’s would be easily integrated...let’s forget about pilot training, induction costs, services center setup costs...let the logistics chain be comprised of Russian, Indian, French AND American planes.. what a great idea......slow claps