MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

[Sancho]

Be sure to cry when the final result is more Rafales either 36 or 72. After that it is Indian all the way

Well there is the difference, I don't route for any specific fighter, but for the IAF and for what is the best to improve the Indian aviation industry!

So when IAF states they need 126 fighters, anything below is bad!
When IAF states, they want MMRCAs not necessarily Rafales, the 36 Rafale deal is bad!
When IAF states, they put priority on cost-effective SE fighters to make up numbers, it's a disaster when the tender gets re-issued and delayed most likely for several more years (till after the elections).

Don't just see these competitions from the point of view of your personal preference for a fighter, but consider what IAF wants and needs and where our industry benefits the most?

I still say that during the original MMRCA, the Rafale as a fighter and a proposal for the industry was the best package. And I am still sure, that if Dassault had not f..ed it up, IAF would get a large fleet of Rafales today, but that was a long time ago.

Now we have a government that limits spending big time and only makes PR and political deals. We have a new procurement policy, that changes the tender big time.
We have a Rafale, that is not the most advanced fighter, with a clear edge in capability anymore.
We have the problems with our 5th gen projects, where we need foreign help for sure.

So a lot of things have changed and personal preference alone doesn't cut it. In fact, I had more confidence in a follow 36 Rafale deal, than Rafale winning this tender, since costs and politics play a major role, while the follow on deal, was another single vendor deal.

 

[Pandeyji]

Well there is the difference, I don't route for any specific fighter, but for the IAF and for what is the best to improve the Indian aviation industry!

another lie

So when IAF states they need 126 fighters, anything below is bad!
When IAF states, they want MMRCAs not necessarily Rafales, the 36 Rafale deal is bad!

care to show where IAF says it? Also, you are forgetting that Rafale is the MMRCA.

When IAF states, they put priority on cost-effective SE fighters to make up numbers, it's a disaster when the tender gets re-issued and delayed most likely for several more years (till after the elections).

Again care to show where IAF exclusively aks for SEF? & please when I say IAF i mean IAF not some retired officer tweeting to pass his time.

Don't just see these competitions from the point of view of your personal preference for a fighter, but consider what IAF wants and needs and where our industry benefits the most?

Projecting much, are we? You have spent the last 2 years on this forum shilling F16 whether out of a misguided sense of what is right or for the greens & pinks I don't know.

I still say that during the original MMRCA, the Rafale as a fighter and a proposal for the industry was the best package. And I am still sure, that if Dassault had not f..ed it up, IAF would get a large fleet of Rafales today, but that was a long time ago.

Rafale didn't fuck up, St Antony did.

Now we have a government that limits spending big time and only makes PR and political deals. We have a new procurement policy, that changes the tender big time.
We have a Rafale, that is not the most advanced fighter, with a clear edge in capability anymore.
We have the problems with our 5th gen projects, where we need foreign help for sure.

Most of it is political & not a debate suited for this thread.

So a lot of things have changed and personal preference alone doesn't cut it. In fact, I had more confidence in a follow 36 Rafale deal, than Rafale winning this tender, since costs and politics play a major role, while the follow on deal, was another single vendor deal.

This is the follow on Rafale deal just disguised to deflect any accusations of corruption.

 

[Rahul Singh]

This is the follow on Rafale deal just disguised to deflect any accusations of corruption.

I second that.

MRCA 2 has been fabricated for a repeat purchase of Rafale but in a manner to bargain better since this time number is going to be very big.

 

[Sancho]

care to show where IAF says it?

https://defenceforumindia.com/forum...-news-discussions.57142/page-134#post-1420440

Projecting much, are we? You have spent the last 2 years on this forum shilling F16...

Lol dreaming are we? I only joined this forum in Dec last year.

Rafale didn't fuck up, St Antony did.

Which shows that you have no clue about the MMRCA, or that both UPA and NDA confirmed Dassault to be the problem for the deadlock in the negotiations.

 

[Pandeyji]

Lol dreaming are we? I only joined this forum in Dec last year.

months, I meant months. The rest of what you wrote is pure bullshit. Nowhere in your whole post is answered my question of IAF especially asking for SEF. They are just saying they need new planes, not the SEF.

 

[Sancho]

months, I meant months. The rest of what you wrote is pure bullshit. Nowhere in your whole post is answered my question of IAF especially asking for SEF. They are just saying they need new planes, not the SEF.

:biggrin2: Your initial question was where IAF stated that they wanted MMRCAs and not Rafales and that's what I have shown you with Air Chief Rahas statements. And if you don't even followed the press conference of Air Chief Dhanoa last oct, you obviously have no base for your opinions anyway:

Dhanoa said IAF is giving priority to the single engine fighters as the twin-engine fighters will cost more.

“Right now, we are concentrating on the single engine so as to make up the numbers with lower cost,” he said. The IAF currently has 33 fighter squadrons against authorised strength of 42.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...e-single-engine-jets-this-month-4877001/lite/


Can't be more clear in what he wants or?

 

[Sancho]

Reports on the visit of the PM in Sweden and on possible defence programmes

 

[Sancho]

I don't give much about the outcomes of the PMs foreign visits, but still interesting speech wrt Make in India and defence manufacturing:

 

[Pandeyji]

:biggrin2: Your initial question was where IAF stated that they wanted MMRCAs and not Rafales and that's what I have shown you with Air Chief Rahas statements. And if you don't even followed the press conference of Air Chief Dhanoa last oct, you obviously have no base for your opinions anyway:


http://indianexpress.com/article/in...e-single-engine-jets-this-month-4877001/lite/

My bad, I guess.

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[Sancho]

My bad, I guess.

It's not about who is right and who is wrong, but about sharing fact based or credible infos, to have a good discussion, or to give people a Base to make up their own mind about a topic. But too often, the topics are driven by pride for indigenous stuff, or preference for a certain fighter, weapon or tech.

I rather would disagree with you, after having a rational discussion on those fighters, IAF or the politics around the deal, than keep reading incorrect things from LCA or Rafale fans.

But wrt the SE requirements of IAF, I found an interesting article this morning =>

 

[Sancho]

The key parts:

The author seems credible and the article is well written and researched, but I still tagged Yusuf and some journalists, to get a confirmation on this, but haven't got one yet.

Would be very interesting to know, if such a meeting was held and if they really approached the PM with the idea?

If true, it once again confirms, that the priority is to get cost-effective fighters in numbers, which then puts Gripen E in a front seat.

 

[Sancho]

Also some news on Rafale:

Dassault Reports Rafale Progress in India

by Neelam Mathews
Apr 19, 2018

...Currently, the Reliance Group's flagship company, Reliance Communications, is embroiled in court cases brought by minority shareholders, and stemming from its inability to repay lenders. The group has debts of $18 billion. A senior official at the Indian MoD has questioned the status of Reliance Defence, since the MoD’s Defense Procurement Policy is very strict on the credit rating of vendors. However, a Reliance official at the Nagpur facility told AIN: “The legal case has nothing to do with Reliance Defence, which is a part of [a separate] subsidiary, Reliance Infrastructure.”...

...But the Dassault chief declined to confirm that Reliance would be the partner in bidding for the 110 fighters. “There is a process of the RFI, and we will see at the time of the Request for Proposal…there is nothing as of now,” he said. “We need a variety of other suppliers [and] we are ready to transfer technology, because my government supports this and our own commitment to India,” he added...

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...-progress-india?amp&__twitter_impression=true

 

[Pandeyji]

Also some news on Rafale:


https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...-progress-india?amp&__twitter_impression=true

Highlighting the wing parts are we

“The legal case has nothing to do with Reliance Defence, which is a part of [a separate] subsidiary, Reliance Infrastructure.”...

 

[Sancho]

Highlighting the wing parts are we

Highlighting the problem (the dept) and Dassault CEOs reaction to it.

 

[Sancho]

Translated:

Home from the first tour with Gripen E simulator. Fun to be part of history. The trip went to Chennai in India

From the RFI:

The only fighters in the tender, that will have a wide or large area display are the Gripen E and the F18 Block 3, both from the Israeli OEM Elbit.


(Minute 2:22 onwards)

 

[Pandeyji]

Highlighting the problem (the dept) and Dassault CEOs reaction to it.

Which as I pointed out is wrong because

“The legal case has nothing to do with Reliance Defence, which is a part of [a separate] subsidiary, Reliance Infrastructure.”...

 

[Misha]

I second that.

MRCA 2 has been fabricated for a repeat purchase of Rafale but in a manner to bargain better since this time number is going to be very big.

I agree it's for Rafael to loose the contest....

In all probability here is what will happen to Rafael in this fighter jet competition.....

They fail to deliver Kaveri as promised = No further order, 2Sqn will be used by Strategic Forces Command

Kaveri Delivered as Promised = 2 More Sqn equipped with Kaveri Engine or 1 Sqn in current Config.

Kaveri Delivered + Help on 120Kn+ K10 = 2-4 Sqn more with Kaveri engine for IAF

Kaveri + K10 + Nuke Reactor + AMCA + GaN Help = 3 Sqn of Rafael M + 4 SQn for IAF + Project 75i...

In simple words it's for Rafael to loose the contest.... if France plays along no other fighter will come in play, we may have joint AMCA & Tejas Mk-II. We may see Tejas MK-II being jointly marketed too....

 

[Sancho]

I agree it's for Rafael to loose the contest....

If there is a contest, I still think it's just a delaying tactic of the PM, that's why he is already politicising it (we will need less time than UPA..., although they Already wasted 4 years, to land where they started).

 

[Sancho]

Boeing F/A-18: Made For India; Made With India

...Best Path to AMCA
The Super Hornet brings the latest generation of technologies to the warfighter. With designed-in stealth and robust capability growth plan, the Super Hornet is the best aircraft to get to India’s Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) program. The F/A-18 Super Hornet has a long life ahead, with the US Navy making significant investments in the latest evolution, the Block III. Key features of the U.S. Navy Block III Super Hornet include enhanced network capability, longer range and low-drag with conformal fuel tanks, long-range detection with Infrared Search & Track, enhanced situational awareness with a new Advanced Cockpit System, improved signature reduction and a 9,000+ hour life.

Best for Make in India
The Super Hornet Make in India proposal is to build an entirely new and state-of-the-art production facility that can be utilized for other programs like AMCA.

Boeing is prepared to bring its global scale and supply chain, its best-in-industry precision manufacturing processes, as well as the company’s unrivaled experience designing and optimizing aerospace production facilities to both expand India’s aerospace ecosystem and help realize the Make in India vision. The approach addresses the infrastructure, personnel training, and operational tools and techniques required to produce a next gen fighter aircraft right here in India.

Boeing is deeply committed to expanding its industrial partnership for producing Super Hornets in India, further developing the country’s aerospace ecosystem. Boeing will work closely with Indian industry to ensure they have the very latest technologies, applying lessons learned from the current Super Hornet production line.

Boeing believes India has demonstrated its potential in aerospace platform development and manufacturing and has a base to build upon. Boeing has been working with suppliers in India for over two decades in manufacturing, IT and engineering services and Indian companies are integrated in our global supply chain. Today, more than 160 suppliers provide parts and assemblies covering commodities such as aerostructures, wire harness, composites, forgings, avionics mission systems, and ground support equipment.

Boeing will work closely with India industry to ensure they have the very latest technologies, applying lessons learned from the current Super Hornet production line. The program envisages transitioning airframe and subsystem manufacture to Indian industry in a deliberate way, representing extraordinary opportunity for technology insertion and growth within India’s aerospace industry.

Boeing will partner with Indian industry to develop the right capabilities as efficiently and cost effectively as possible to integrate these suppliers into the global supply chain. Boeing and its current industry partners are having robust discussions with suppliers in India about building Super Hornets. We have talked to over 400 Indian companies as part of our partner evaluation process for various systems and subsystems of Super Hornet.

http://www.boeing.co.in/products-an...efense-space-and-security-in-india/fa-18.page

 

[Mikesingh]

http://www.boeing.co.in/products-an...efense-space-and-security-in-india/fa-18.page

We've been hearing about the Super Hornet for some time now. The question is whether it's just talk talk and more talk or are the PTB ever going to move their frikkin asses to get it going? When?