Mirage upgrade: To be completed within 10 years

[nandu]

Indian air force Mirage 2000H fighter aircraft upgrade deal is key to defence and strategic partnership with India

Israel has offered to upgrade 50 French Mirage 2000 fighter aircraft currently being used by the Indian air force (IAF) and 18 Spyder quick-reaction surface-to-air missiles (QR-SAMs) from the Indian Army. The upgrade would include new radars, superior avionics, electronic warfare systems and onboard computers, which will make the aircraft battle worthy for another 15 years.
The close-range missile defence systems are meant as a protective shield for the army’s critical immovable assets. Initial offer to upgrade Mirage 2000 was Rs 13,500 crores ($2.9 billion), French aerospace major, Thales ( EPA:HO) came down to Rs 10,000 crores ($2.1 billion).
Israel Aircraft Industries has offered 40 per cent less than the price quoted by the French. Cost of the Israeli bid totals Rs 96 crore per aircraft while the French bid is worth Rs 152 crore. Indian air force has three squadrons of Mirage 2000 fighter aircraft, including 42 single-seaters and 7 two-seaters.
Dassault Mirage 2000 is a French multirole, single-engine fourth-generation jet fighter manufactured by Dassault Aviation (EPA:AM). India has announced a $1.9 billion program to arm 51 of its Mirage 2000 aircraft with the MBDA ASRAAM dog fighting missile beginning in 2007. This will give the jets multi-role capability with longer-range radars and fire-and-forget missiles, enabling the aircraft to perform a given mission thanks to greater fuel and weapon-delivery capacities.

The IAF has a global tender for 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft in a deal valued at $10 billion. Six jets are in the fray: the US Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet and the Lockheed Martin F-16, the French Dassault Rafale, the Swedish Saab Grippen, the Russian MiG-35 and the Eurofighter Typhoon built by a four-nation European consortium.
Upgrades to its ageing Mirage 2000s are essential as India tries to plug a capability gap ahead of the new fighters’ arrival around 2014, and amid continued delays to its Aeronautical Development Agency Tejas light combat aircraft.
Under the Thales proposal, the company would deliver the first two aircraft from its facilities in France within 40 months of the signing of the contract, and would simultaneously assist Hindustan Aircraft Limited (HAL) in upgrading another two aircraft in India in the same time frame. Thereafter, HAL would upgrade one of the remaining 47 aircraft every month.
The upgrades include:
- New avionics, including an advanced navigation system, mission computers, Mil 1553 B data with Digibus, a pulse doppler radar that can find objects out to 70 nautical miles
- Two displays and an advanced head-down display in a glass cockpit
- Electronic warfare systems, including new radar warning receivers with instantaneous wide-bank receivers, an integrated missile warning receiver with continuous time-to-impact information, and new jammers and countermeasure systems
- Increased fuel capacity
- Four Derby beyond-visual-range missiles
- Two short-to-medium-range Python V missiles
- Long-range smart munitions
- Full mission simulators
The upgraded aircraft will have a warranty of 24 months or 360 operational hours.
Mirage 2000 is a multi-role combat fighter from Dassault Aviation of France. It has been operational with the French Air Force since 1984, and has been selected by Abu Dhabi, Egypt, Greece, India, Peru, Qatar, Taiwan and the United Arab Emirates.
Indian air force (IAF) has had a ‘good’ experience with the fighters, which successfully carried out ‘targeted bombings’ during the 1999 Kargil conflict.

http://ceoworld.biz

 

[plugwater]

India inks Mirage deal, France says no to Pak

India last week finalised a $2.2 billion deal with France to upgrade its fleet of Mirage 2000 fighters, even as reports from Paris say the country has suspended the sale of electronics and missiles for Pakistan’s JF 17 fighters, supposedly under “Indian pressure”.

While the IAF deal for upgradation of 51 fighters had been hanging fire for the past two years, sources said the Price Negotiation Committee last week finalised the cost. The deal is likely to be signed shortly.

At $2.2 billion, the cost of the upgrade is considered to be on the higher side, given that several countries are offering new fighters for that price. However, the French argue that the upgrade, which will give the aircraft new radar systems, a new weapon suite, missiles, electronic warfare system and modern electronic warfare, will convert the combat-proven aircraft into next-generation fighters.

The final price negotiations were held even as reports from Paris, carried by French newspapers and agencies, said that its plans to sell $1.6 billion worth of military equipment for Pakistan’s JF 17 fighters had been put on hold.

The reports said that the contract was suspended under Indian pressure and doubts over Pakistan’s ability to pay for the systems

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/indiainksmiragedeal-francesaysnotopak/600042/

 

[LETHALFORCE]

so Far Russians and French have their appetizers I hope the main course dosen't go to the Americans.

 

[Yusuf]

What else do you think is going on? Now only the brits remain along with their european mates. U 214 anyone? That would be a pretty big thing. Wonder if the americans have ever showed interest in selling subs to india? Or its just that they operate nuke powered subs and don't have expertise in conventional subs like the europeans have?

 

[Armand2REP]

so Far Russians and French have their appetizers I hope the main course dosen't go to the Americans.

The Russians already have their main course and deserts. Getting an upgrade order for your own equipment is just keeping you in the game. Need something new to increase a low market share to level the playing field.

 

[mehrotraprince]

Now things are clear, Rafale out of race, F-16 0% chances, Mig-35 not possible b'coz of Mig -29 and now ony three are left i.e. Girpen, F-18 and Eurofighter.


Don't criticize the deal, since at this cost we are getting radar, avionics and weapons (with ToT) and fighter aircraft is all about these things only (apart from airframe and engines).

Think in more logical way, through this deal we are getting technologies of Rafale and now we can add other 126 planes in form of completely different platform and technology.

If I can still count and divide, then Rs. 10,000 crores is aproximately USD $2.5 Billion dollars !!!!!!! ?????

Holy Cow........at current prices of about USD $50 million a piece, you could buy 50 4th or 4++ generation brand new fighters like the Rafael or the F-18 for that money.

Wrong, cost of one unit of Rafale is about $ 82 million, so we can only get 27 numbers in $ 2.2 billions and that too without ToT. So better to save money and upgrade 51 Mirage then go for other aircraft in MRCA deal clap.

 

[notinlove]

Now things are clear, Rafale out of race, f 16 0% chances, Mig 35 not possible b'coz of Mig

29 and now ony three are left i.e. Girpen, F 18 and Eurofighter.


Don't criticize the deal, since at this cost we are getting radar, avionics and weapons

(with ToT) and fighter aircraft is all about these things only (apart from airframe and

engines).
Think in more logical way, through this deal we are getting technologies of Rafale and now

we can add other 126 planes in form of completely different platform and technology.




Wrong, cost of one unit of Rafale is about $ 82 million, so we can only get 27 numbers in $ 2.2 billions and that too without ToT.
So better to save money and upgrade 51 Mirage then go for other aircraft in MRCA deal clap.

Why don't you compare that to the price of a single engine fighter which the Mirage is . say like a gripen , then you will see the real picture mate

 

[Armand2REP]

So better to save money and upgrade 51 Mirage then go for other aircraft in MRCA deal clap.

You want to cancel MRCA... guy, you are crazy.

 

[Agantrope]

Now things are clear, Rafale out of race, F-16 0% chances, Mig-35 not possible b'coz of Mig -29 and now ony three are left i.e. Girpen, F-18 and Eurofighter.


Don't criticize the deal, since at this cost we are getting radar, avionics and weapons (with ToT) and fighter aircraft is all about these things only (apart from airframe and engines).

Think in more logical way, through this deal we are getting technologies of Rafale and now we can add other 126 planes in form of completely different platform and technology.




Wrong, cost of one unit of Rafale is about $ 82 million, so we can only get 27 numbers in $ 2.2 billions and that too without ToT. So better to save money and upgrade 51 Mirage then go for other aircraft in MRCA deal clap.

Remeber one thing, more the versatile of AC you have more the maintenance you need to spend. So it is quite obvious that IAF will be going to

Rafle
EF
MiG35

Read in the same hierarchy. American Jets failed miserably in the Leh tests.

 

[nandu]

Mirage aircraft up-gradation is cost effective: Naik

Air Chief Marshal P V Naik said that upgrading old Mirage fighter aircraft is a better option than buying new fighter planes.

When asked why Air Force was spending millions of dollars in upgrading old Mirages as the money could well be used in buying new Sukhois, Naik said, "When you buy an (fighter) aircraft it is not only the aircraft that you buy, you spend money in training people, erecting infrastructure, logistics, spares supply and life time support."

"The residual life of the 50 odd Mirages that are left is another 20 years. If I throw them away I have wasted 20 years of that residual life. But upgrading them, with the infrastructure already available, seems a better option, considering the life time cost," he added.

Talking about the Air Force's long-term perspective planning, Naik said, "Wherever there is residual useful life left, in any system not only aircraft, we try and upgrade. So that at least part of that residual can be used. But wherever there is no residual life left we try and replace."

He further said that when you upgrade an aircraft the cost is higher than 50 per cent of the original cost.

When asked about the role of Air Force in coastal security, the Air Chief Marshall said the Indian Navy has acquired crucial assets for the same purpose.

"For coastal security, fighter aircraft are not required. For that you require slow moving aircraft which can have cameras and other sensors," Naik said.

"As far as Air Force is concerned there is one great asset we can use for coastal security and that is the UAVs (Unmanned Ariel Vehicles). They are already being used in areas like Haraminala," he added.

"With more UAVs we can use them more often. They can remain airborne for longtime. They do not have to come back and give the information. Whatever they see, hear or locate is transmitted simultaneously. Hence these become important assets in coastal areas," Naik added.

He said IAF they had used UAVs in the naxal affected areas 3-4 years ago. "We have used these in Raipur and Jagdalpur. But the problem in these areas is that they are covered by jungles. So, as far as visual clues are concerned, we can't get there as there is a thick forest cover."

"However one can get some clues using Infra Red lights or detect some metals. Also, naxals are very fleeting targets, so locating them under the jungle cover is very difficult. But in open areas we can definitely use UAVs more," he added.

Talking about situation at Indo-China border, Naik said, "There are border problems. Such problems cannot be solved so fast. How to proceed is the matter for the government to decide. We are just the military and have to ensure that the border is secure."

Naik said that Air Force was taking steps to build infrastructure along the border and there was a concerted effort in that direction.

"We are purchasing new aircraft not keeping China or some other country in mind. It is a question of capability built up in the east which was long over due. It should have been done 10 years ago but we didn't have the money at that time. But now we have the money as the government has sanctioned certain projects which are moving on fast track," he said.

"But for us, fast track is also 3-5 years because the areas are also very difficult. No contractor is ready to go there. The weather and altitude are adverse. There are not enough roads and the working season is just 3-4 months in a year," Naik added.

The Air Chief Marshal further said that new bases are being thought of and the old bases are being strengthened to accept new aircraft.

About the trials of new aircraft being purchased, Naik said by the end of April they will be completing all the trials.

"Trials of two aircraft are still left, by end of April we will be completing all the trials after that about 2-3 months to complete the report and then we will be submitting it to the government," he added.

http://www.brahmand.com/news/Mirage-aircraft-up-gradation-is-cost-effective-Naik/3572/1/12.html

 

[Sridhar]

Upgrading Mirages better option than buying new aircraft: PV Naik

BY : PTI
Air Chief Marshal PV Naik today said that upgrading old Mirage fighter aircraft is a better option than buying new fighter planes.
When asked why Air Force was spending millions of dollars in upgrading old Mirages as the money could well be used in buyingnew Sukhois, Naik said, “When you buy an (fighter) aircraft itis not only the aircraft that you buy, you spend money in training people, erecting infrastructure, logistics, spares supply and life time support.”
“The residual life of the 50 odd Mirages that are left is another 20 years. If I throw them away I have wasted 20 years of that residual life. But upgrading them, with the infrastructure already available, seems a better option, considering the life time cost,” he added.
Talking about the Air Force’s long-term perspective planning, Naik said, “Wherever there is residual useful life left, in any system not only aircraft, we try and upgrade. So that at least part of that residual life is used. But wherever there is no residual life left we try and replace.”
He further said that when you upgrade an aircraft the cost is higher than 50% of the original cost.
When asked about the role of Air Force in coastal security, the Air Chief Marshall said the Indian Navy has acquired crucial assets for the same purpose.
“For coastal security, fighter aircraft are not required. For that you require slow moving aircraft which can have cameras and other sensors,” Naik said.
“As far as Air Force is concerned there is one great asset we can use for coastal security and that is the UAVs (Unmanned Ariel Vehicles). They are already being used in areas like Haraminala,” he added.
“With more UAVs we can use them more often. They can remain airborne for longtime. They do not have to come back and give the information. Whatever they see, hear or locate is transmitted simultaneously . Hence these become important assets in coastal areas,” Naik added.
He said IAF they had used UAVs in the naxal affected areas 3-4 years ago. “We have used these in Raipur and Jagdalpur. But the problem in these areas is that they are covered by jungles. So, as far as visual clues are concerned, we can’t get there as there is a thick forest cover.”
“However one can get some clues using Infra Red lights or detect some metals. Also, naxals are very fleeting targets, so locating them under the jungle cover is very difficult. But in open areas we can definitely use UAVs more,” he added.
Talking about situation at Indo-China border, Naik said, “There are border problems. Such problems cannot be solved so fast. How to proceed is the matter for the government to decide. We are just the military and have to ensure that the border is secure.”


http://idrw.org/?p=1219

 

[mehrotraprince]

According to my personal view India is going to choose two aircrafts, one winner is Rafale, I am waiting for other winner.

 

[ppgj]

@Armand

i was going thro' the Dassault web page on M2k-9 of the UAE. i guess it is nothing but M2K-5 MARK2. one part i could not get though. can you explain please.

The Mirage 2000-9 is equipped with a pioneering IT "core system" architecture as of last generation aircraft (Rafale, F-22 & F-35/JSF).

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/defense/mirage-2000/mirage-2000-9.html?L=1

also can you shed more light on the cost of MICA which is coming as a package with the upgrade india is looking for? what is the number india is going to procure?

and i read some where France does have an M53 P2 upgrade kit (though the line itself stands closed IIRC). if true what is the additional thrust it may give though this itself may not be part of the indian upgrade. also can you shed more light on the 'SABRE RF JAMMER'?

thanks.

 

[Armand2REP]

@Armand

i was going thro' the Dassault web page on M2k-9 of the UAE. i guess it is nothing but M2K-5 MARK2. one part i could not get though. can you explain please.

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/defense/mirage-2000/mirage-2000-9.html?L=1

M2k-9 is just the export name for Mk2-5. The core system it is talking about is the Modular Data Processing Unit. It hosts all the core functions of the aircraft such as Flight management, Data Fusion, Fire Control, Man-Machine Interface, etc.

also can you shed more light on the cost of MICA which is coming as a package with the upgrade india is looking for? what is the number india is going to procure?

It costs $590,000. I do not know exactly how many, but I would buy eight for each aircraft.

and i read some where France does have an M53 P2 upgrade kit (though the line itself stands closed IIRC). if true what is the additional thrust it may give though this itself may not be part of the indian upgrade. also can you shed more light on the 'SABRE RF JAMMER'?

thanks.

India will get the M53-P2, nothing special about it except they will be new engines. Half of IAF's Mirages have the older M53-5 so those aircraft will get the performance boost.

Why would you want to shed light on an outdated jammer? Sabre was on the old Mirage part of ICMS Mk1, now we are on Mk3. The new jammer is called Chameleon. Don't know much about the details but I know Greece is pretty happy with it.

 

[ppgj]

M2k-9 is just the export name for Mk2-5. The core system it is talking about is the Modular Data Processing Unit. It hosts all the core functions of the aircraft such as Flight management, Data Fusion, Fire Control, Man-Machine Interface, etc.

It costs $590,000. I do not know exactly how many, but I would buy eight for each aircraft.

thanks.

India will get the M53-P2, nothing special about it except they will be new engines. Half of IAF's Mirages have the older M53-5 so those aircraft will get the performance boost.

all of india's mirages sport M53-P2. initially they procured with only M53 but all of them were later upgraded to M53-P2 standard.

my question was wrt an upgrade kit to M53-P2 to enhance the thrust. read it somewhere. will try and find.

Why would you want to shed light on an outdated jammer? Sabre was on the old Mirage part of ICMS Mk1, now we are on Mk3. The new jammer is called Chameleon. Don't know much about the details but I know Greece is pretty happy with it.

i was under the impression Sabre was part of the ICMS pack.

 

[Rage]

The new jammer is called Chameleon. Don't know much about the details but I know Greece is pretty happy with it.

Which version of the Chameleon is Greece using? The II / III B?

 

[M.Riaz]

India Seems to be too much interested in the mirages are they looking to buy out the old UAE mirages because last time over pakistan wanted the quatar mirages india stuck its nose out and the deal got cancelled , pakistan may be looking at those UAE mirages after all 200 PAF pilots are in service with UAE still india with its money bags currently can snatch the deal or persuade France to act otherwise SO interested to know if India is considering the UAE mirages

 

[Yusuf]

Thats an old story. The MRCA came along after that. India is not going for the mirages now. Indian Mirages themselves will be phased out by the end of the next decade if the Pakfa is coming along well.

 

[Anshu Attri]

http://idrw.org/?p=1358

IAF may acquire AIM-132 ASRAAM for Jaguar and Mirage-2000

Indian Air Force wants to replace Matra R550 Magic-II short-range missile designed in 1968 ,with new generation "heat seeking" British made AIM-132 air-to-air missile
Air-to-air missile
An air-to-air missile is a guided missile fired from an aircraft for the purpose of destroying another aircraft. AAMs are typically powered by one or more rocket motors, usually solid fuelled but sometimes liquid fuelled"¦
.
Request for Information was send last year to five missile manufacturers including the Raytheon Corporation from United States, Israeli Rafael and European missile consortium MBDA.
Indian air force has requirements of over 100 short-range missiles ,which will be replacing Matra R550 Magic-II , which are armed by Jaguar and Mirage-2000 fighter aircraft's in Indian Air force .
US manufacturers had offered AIM-9X and AMRAAM for close range combat , while Israeli offered Derby-5 missile , while Britain offered AIM-132 ASRAAM

 

[LETHALFORCE]

This is reported to be a generation ahead of AIM-9 sidewinders USA is gifting to Pakistan.