'Make in India' for 90 medium combat jets

[Compersion]

does this have a link to the GE Engines TOT ... is it on the other extreme a negotiation tactic while talking with the french

it is a bit silly we ought to be more clear and simple focus on strategic partnerships and long-term connections (perhaps it is evolving in that direction and too quick to say) and especially buy indigenous maal - are we not able to manufacture a fighter jet on our own be frank because if we are trying to say that foreign partners can take advantage of our large technical skills and brains and low cost manufacturing that would benefit all that is why they need to bid that message is lost in translation!!

 

[Rowdy]

I'm Not gonna follow this tender till we have signatures on the dotted lines.
FUCK YOU DEFENCE MINISTRY

 

[angeldude13]

I'm Not gonna follow this tender till we have signatures on the dotted lines.
FUCK YOU DEFENCE MINISTRY

10th se lca progarm follow kr rha hu aur ab to graduation bhi ho jaegi per BC tejas ko foc nhi milegi
I promised myself that I would give up forumming when tejas will get FOC. Had hai BC DRDO ki

 

[CrYsIs]

Old wine in a new bottle :biggrin2:

 

[salute]

10th se lca progarm follow kr rha hu aur ab to graduation bhi ho jaegi per BC tejas ko foc nhi milegi
I promised myself that I would give up forumming when tejas will get FOC. Had hai BC DRDO ki

,
abhi toh mk.2 bhi baki hai,mk.2 shuru bhi nahi hua hai,
amca ko follow mat karna,verna karte karte tere bachoo ki bhi graduation ho jayegi.

 

[blue marlin]

Tejas is for mass production, MMRCA is to maintain superiority over China and Pakistan.

you cant maintain superiority with 90 planes for two borders with huge forces on each side. even if you are complementing the su30 or mirage 2000. the number of jets you have is decreasing each day. if Pakistan and china did a coordinated (hypothetical attack) on india. india will not stand a chance. only the navy will survive.

 

[Srinivas_K]

you cant maintain superiority with 90 planes for two borders with huge forces on each side. even if you are complementing the su30 or mirage 2000. the number of jets you have is decreasing each day. if Pakistan and china did a coordinated (hypothetical attack) on india. india will not stand a chance. only the navy will survive.

The real war scenario is difficult to predict, India is waging a defensive warfare with lot of reserves.

India is also investing a lot of money on manpads, airdefense systems.

Once Tejas is ready for induction, I think IAF will fast track its induction in numbers. Tejas MK2 is a game changer for sure.

 

[Blackwater]

The real war scenario is difficult to predict, India is waging a defensive warfare with lot of reserves.

India is also investing a lot of money on manpads, airdefense systems.

Once Tejas is ready for induction, I think IAF will fast track its induction in numbers. Tejas MK2 is a game changer for sure.

Once, game changer, induction, numbers [emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji38]
What a lovely words

 

[blue marlin]

The real war scenario is difficult to predict, India is waging a defensive warfare with lot of reserves.

India is also investing a lot of money on manpads, airdefense systems.

Once Tejas is ready for induction, I think IAF will fast track its induction in numbers. Tejas MK2 is a game changer for sure.

well india is an offensive army not defensive.

bringing up the tejas as a game changer makes me think what world do you live in. the tejas is a failure. as a whole. it's 15 years late, its design is obsolete, your own airforce admits it too. the mk1 does not meet iaf requirements. they say the mk2 will meet the requirements but it does not.

man-pads are used for low flying jets near the border more in particular the mountainous region.

 

[Srinivas_K]

well india is an offensive army not defensive.

bringing up the tejas as a game changer makes me think what world do you live in. the tejas is a failure. as a whole. it's 15 years late, its design is obsolete, your own airforce admits it too. the mk1 does not meet iaf requirements. they say the mk2 will meet the requirements but it does not.

man-pads are used for low flying jets near the border more in particular the mountainous region.

First check how much time it requires for a fighter jet to be made from the scratch, then also read how the santions imposed on India delayed the project.

Remove the time under the sanctions from the total time, you will find that the development of tejas time period is comparable to other advanced nations.

 

[blue marlin]

First check how much time it requires for a fighter jet to be made from the scratch, then also read how the santions imposed on India delayed the project.

Remove the time under the sanctions from the total time, you will find that the development of tejas time period is comparable to other advanced nations.

well firstly hello as this is the first decent reply i have been given whilst on my short time on dfi.

the lca was a good concept at the time and would have been an excellent jet, if inducted at its desired time. but due to a delay of 15+ years is no excuse as you produced your own mi21 - mig 27, jaguars, and if you asked the soviet union at the time for avionics they would have helped. and they did, along with help from France and Israeli.

the point i am trying to get here is that it needed more financial and the political will to make such a project move quicker and flourish.

 

[Srinivas_K]

well firstly hello as this is the first decent reply i have been given whilst on my short time on dfi.

the lca was a good concept at the time and would have been an excellent jet, if inducted at its desired time. but due to a delay of 15+ years is no excuse as you produced your own mi21 - mig 27, jaguars, and if you asked the soviet union at the time for avionics they would have helped. and they did, along with help from France and Israeli.

the point i am trying to get here is that it needed more financial and the political will to make such a project move quicker and flourish.

See executing a project is lot complex than what you are thinking.

Indian defense industries first freeze the requirements and also the supplier, in the middle the supplier put sanctions and refused the technology.

At that point of time India it is difficult to change the spec and change the design, it is like doing it from the scratch.

Anyway until 1990's India's only threat is Pakistan and no one took the defense industry seriously, nor there is accountability. Most of the priorities are given to uplifting poor, economy and other aspects.
It is the emergence of China than compelled India to do nuke tests and start taking defense industry seriously.

 

[no smoking]

First check how much time it requires for a fighter jet to be made from the scratch, then also read how the santions imposed on India delayed the project.

Yes, there was sanction from the West, but Russia didn't join them. You were still free to use their products, but you just choose not to.

Remove the time under the sanctions from the total time, you will find that the development of tejas time period is comparable to other advanced nations.

No, if we remove the sanction time (1998-2006), it was still 22 years and LCA hasn't got its FOC yet.
Let's see others:
F15 (1965-1976): 9 years
Su27 (1969-1985): 16 years
F22 (1986-2005): 19 years
Typhoon (1983-2003): 20 years
Rafale (1983-2001): 18 years
J10 (1988-2005): 17 years

SO, the closest one was Typhoon which was the product of multinational cooperation.
Actually, it is quite normal to take so long for any country to develop her first jet. The only problem is Indian scientists keep overstating their capability and understating the difficulty.

 

[no smoking]

Indian defense industries first freeze the requirements and also the supplier, in the middle the supplier put sanctions and refused the technology.
At that point of time India it is difficult to change the spec and change the design, it is like doing it from the scratch.

That is not true. Changing engine would bring challenge, but doesn't mean you have to start from the scratch.
J10 faced the same problem in 1990s when they realised the domestic engine was lagging behind the schedule. They decided to use Russian engine and the designer quickly changed the airframe design to accommodate the new engine.

If India scientists can't change their design for another engine, I really doubt how much they know about their own design.

 

[Screambowl]

yeh kabhi na khatam honey wala drama hai ...

I used to discuss a lot on IAF but after MMRCA my interest went down on this boring institution.

IAF really needs to mould itself in more professional institution. If your selection criteria is tough then also the training must be grade one.

You cannot always change criteria of your requirement. This is the case with LCA. Every year their requirements change.

It is good they should keep upgrading.. but combat ready equipments are need of hour. Which is Tejas!!

You cannot say India will not go in war in the next 5 years. Any thing can happen.

IAF should learn something from navy.

 

[bengalraider]

Mark my words this will be a "horse and pony" show with one or two vendors willing to spend millions to showcase their products all over again. We will have to go with whosoever is still willing to rake through the muck that is our defence procurement procedure.
My money is on Rosoboronexport this time.

 

[SajeevJino]

.

I smell the Russian coming with the MiG 1.44, they were going to Display the Aircraft in next Air show, with an huge announcement


.

 

[Yumdoot]

I think some of you guys should take it easy. Mostly these reports put out as fact things that are merely in discussion phase and mostly only one side has made an offer. This will be advertised like a big deal.

 

[Zebra]

.
I smell the Russian coming with the MiG 1.44, they were going to Display the Aircraft in next Air show, with an huge announcement .

Its a cancelled project, isn't it..!

 

[Srinivas_K]

That is not true. Changing engine would bring challenge, but doesn't mean you have to start from the scratch.
J10 faced the same problem in 1990s when they realised the domestic engine was lagging behind the schedule. They decided to use Russian engine and the designer quickly changed the airframe design to accommodate the new engine.

If India scientists can't change their design for another engine, I really doubt how much they know about their own design.

LCA is designed to be semi stealth, small and agile aircraft, Russian engines emit smoke one of the reason they have not choose those engines. There is an analysis why India preferred only US or Western engines.