Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

If Tanks have to evolve, which path they should follow?

  • Light Vehicles-Best for mobility

    Votes: 25 7.3%
  • Heavy Armour-Can take heavy punishment.

    Votes: 57 16.7%
  • Modular Design-Allowing dynamic adaptions.

    Votes: 198 58.1%
  • Universal Platform-Best for logistics.

    Votes: 61 17.9%

  • Total voters
    341

militarysta

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Nag (missile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, in wiki there is exatly what I posted: for NAmica 4km. For air HELINA (under development) 7-8km.
.
helina have lock on before launch but helina have lock on after launch
Helina is still in development phase and test. In service or produced is only land version: 4km, no BLOS mode. lock-on before lunched


twinblade already proved how nag can be fired hiding
where, give me link please.

the launches can be raised 5m upward which makes range of land version 8km and gives ability to fire it hiding behind stone
No, it doesnt work in sucht way....
And I found this post (Twinblade) - no single evidence about bigger then 4km range :) What more -still LOS mode only - only "advantage" -capability to hide carrier after terrains. But this still not solved terreain and max fire range problem.
 
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Damian

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Yes, tanks can detect targets using thermal sights from very long distances, but of course it depends on tank and electrooptical systems it have.

Today the only tank that is mass manufactured and have such capabilities for certain is M1 Abrams in variants M1A1SA, M1A1FEP and M1A2SEP.

As I said before it uses advanced thermal sights with zoom ranging from 3x to 50x, so not only you can detect targets at long ranges, but also identify them and engage them.

Fire control system of these tanks provides accurate fire capability up to 5000m, and laser range finder can calculate range up to 9000m or more, so at ranges beyond 5000m, gunner can still try to hit the target with M1069 programmable HE ammo.

Americans were also developing a guided missile XM1111 MRM-CE with maximum range of 12000m.

I also like one feature of M1A2SEP FCS, it is "silent" range calcultation. Commander CITV does not have laser range finder, but have a special targeting reticle that moves, it have a shape of box. If TC sees a target with this CITV, he can change size of that box to the size of target, and this data is used by computer to calculate range, so if enemy tanks have laser warning receivers, they won't detect M1A2SEP that just ranged them, for example in ambush.

Other tanks that I think will or have similiar capabilities, would be Merkava Mk4, Leclerc S3/SXXI in versions T10 and T11 and also Leopard 2A7.
 

militarysta

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Sorry but not - rising luncher will not give you range 7-8km. You are writing about TWO difrent version of the NAG:
land based - NAMICA (4km)
air - HELINA (7-8km)
rising up land version vil not gave you air version :)
NAMICA is the name of the carrier vehicle which is BMP-2 based- the missiles NAG and HELINA are same- they can both lock on before or after launch- Its smokeless so you cannot see it optically- Its range is less because It rises high in the sky to acquire the IIR image of the target- since Indian deserts in summer is too hot-- 50degree on Celsius scale-- Its hard for IIR seeker to distinguish target in ground clutter until it rises vertically and gets a larger IR picture of target- than- It could get of the target- flying low on sand dunes- and dives on the target vertically-


Ignore unwanted music- the target vehicle was an old Vijayanta tank-

The IIR camera on the carrier is there for the Namica commander to detect and identify any hot object(target vehicle) before launching the missile on it- The missile is a true fire and forget since the carrier has no contact with the missile after launch-
 
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Kaalapani

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Sorry but not - rising luncher will not give you range 7-8km. You are writing about TWO difrent version of the NAG:
land based - NAMICA (4km)
air - HELINA (7-8km)
rising up land version vil not gave you air version :)
Both are different under one name.
 

Damian

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Meanwhile-





Meanwhile you know nothing about these incidents.

First photo shows a tank hit a month ago, longer perhaps, it was hit by RPG, and nothing happened.

Second photo shows incomplete story, this tank was actually abandoned by it's crew and it's ammunition compartment had been blow off by crew using some sort of granade.

Third photo shows one of Iraqi M1A1M's hit by RPG, yet no serious damage was made, and the men standing on tank is Iraqi policeman.

Iraqi officials reported that 28 tanks were damaged (but not lost!) during fights with terrorists, 5 tanks had armor perforation after ATGM attacks.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/13/w...-iraqi-military-had-been-in-decline.html?_r=0
From January through May, six helicopters were shot down and 60 were damaged in battle, an administration official said.

In the same period, 28 M-1 tanks were damaged and five tanks sustained full armor penetration by antitank guided missiles. ISIS, the administration official added, appears to have acquired Russian antitank weapons in Syria. A significant number of M-1 tanks have been hobbled by maintenance issues, the official said.
What is also important to note, is that exported M1 tanks, have different armor package than the ones used by US Armed Forces.

US tanks have 3 armor packages:

Original "Burlington" armor package with two generations, used on M1 (1st generation), M1IP and M1A1 (both 2nd generation).

Heavy Armor Package or HAP (which include layers made from depleted uranium alloy), there are 3 generations of this armor, used from M1A1HA (1st generation or 2nd depending on production batch) to M1A2SEPv2 (3rd generation).

Next Generation Armor Package, this is new armor that was developed for next major M1 upgrade ECP - Engineering Change Proposal.


Exported M1 tanks have so called EAP or Export Armor Package that is most likely weaker than HAP and NGAP armor packages. However it is possible that EAP can be "tuned" depending on customer, and for example reliable allies and customers like Australia, can receive better EAP armor package for their tanks, than Iraq, Egypt, kuwait or Saudi Arabia.

However USA also allows if customer have such capabilities to replace EAP armor package with their own sollution, for example Saudi Arabia M1A2 tanks, when modernized to M1A2S standard, have old EAP armor package, replaced with new armor, developed and manufactured in Saudi Arabia.

Jane's have article about that:

http://www.janes.com/article/39550/...s=1&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

The official said 28 Iraqi Army Abrams had been damaged in fighting with militants, five of them suffering full armour penetration when hit by ATGMs. The United States supplied 140 refurbished M1A1 Abrams tanks to Iraq between 2010 and 2012. While they have new equipment to improve situational awareness, they do not have the depleted uranium amour package that increases protection over the tank's frontal arc.

Here is also topic about the subject on TankNet forums.

http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=38977&page=1
 
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Damian

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Look like damaged T-64BV.
 
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Saumyasupraik

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Second photo shows incomplete story, this tank was actually abandoned by it's crew and it's ammunition compartment had been blow off by crew using some sort of granade.
Hi, is there a video or anything which shows that? It looks fake and is to clean.

Third photo shows one of Iraqi M1A1M's hit by RPG, yet no serious damage was made, and the men standing on tank is Iraqi policeman.
Can you provide source if you have please? Is it because of the black uniform,gear and M4?
 

Damian

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Hi, is there a video or anything which shows that? It looks fake and is to clean.
Can you provide source if you have please? Is it because of the black uniform,gear and M4?
1) No there is no video, there were however photos. This tank did not had any kind of infantry support and one of insurgents tried to attack it by climbing on it and placing explosives at hatches or throwing them through hatches, it seems from photos it was unsucsessfull, however crew later abandoned vehicle, and throw inside some sort of granade. But this is still speculation as photos does not show everything and there is no video.

In the end this tank might had been only lightly damaged.

2) Yes, this is because black uniform gear and weapon. My source is highly reliable in this kind of stuff.
 

Saumyasupraik

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1) No there is no video, there were however photos. This tank did not had any kind of infantry support and one of insurgents tried to attack it by climbing on it and placing explosives at hatches or throwing them through hatches, it seems from photos it was unsucsessfull, however crew later abandoned vehicle, and throw inside some sort of granade. But this is still speculation as photos does not show everything and there is no video.
If the photos could be posted it would be highly appreciated. This a recent incident or happened some time back?
 

Twinblade

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Sorry but not - rising luncher will not give you range 7-8km. You are writing about TWO difrent version of the NAG:
land based - NAMICA (4km)
air - HELINA (7-8km)
rising up land version vil not gave you air version :)
You are wrong. the 4 km range is in LOBL moade, 7-8 km in LOAL mode. The 7-8 km range for HELINA is from tree top level.

^^ This is how Helina is tested. It hit a target at 7km range in the last test from a ground based launcher.

Nag and Heli-Nag are the same missiles with the difference being in the fire control systems of the launcher and two way video data link in the missile. The nag missile carrier is reportedly being adapted to incorporate the same.
 

shiphone

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Helina is improved NAG with a RF two-way Data link to achieve the LOAL mode...



the land based NAG don't have his Datalink...the current Nag fired by NAMICA could only Lock on before the Launch.

 
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313230

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Does anyone has the info about diameter of the case of 120/ 125mm ammunition?
@militarysta, if you have a chance, could you please measure the diameter of the propellant part of the ammunition? It looks bigger than gun diameter.
 
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Damian

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There is some kind of problem with forum, I can't properly respond to one question, anybody knows what is going on?
 

Damian

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Iranian T-72 modification with T-80UD turret and 6TD diesel engine.

Possible coop between Iran and Pakistan? Or Iran and Ukraine?
 

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