Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

I hope you are familiar with ATGMs . Right now we have nag ATGM, helina etc. and in negotiation with america / israel for javelin/ spike . And then there is a project running in drdo for man portable ATGM . And to fight against tanks we have apache ,LCH ,rudra, mig35 etc. so tank will hardly be used to attack tanks

 

[Damian]

ATGM's effectiveness against modern tanks is hardly spectacular, in fact it is relatively low compared to their advertisements.

Also remember that all these ATGM's you mentioned have relatively short range, which means that their carriers or operators are well within range of MBT's main armament.

Nag have a range of what? 4000m at best? Any Pakistani or Chinese tank have gun launched ATGM with a range of 5000m. Basic infantry carried Javelin or Spike have a range of about 2000m. US is working on new Javelin variant with range increased to 4000m.

So modern tanks can fire their ammunition even further than most ATGM's have a effective range.

For example M1A2SEPv2, as the ones on pictires above, have thermal sights with maximum 50x zoom, and new fire control system that gives it capability to accurately fire conventional (non guided) rounds up to 5000m, and there was ATGM tested on that tank, XM1111 MRM-CE, fired from it's main gun with a maximum range of 12,000m.

So good luck with trying to efficently engage modern tanks that are properly commanded and their crews are properly trained.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

helina have range of 8 km and pakis and chinese tanks will be vulnerable against apache and if higher altitude then against LCH
.
India to order large number of Javelin anti-tank missiles from US - Times Of India
.
the range of javelin is 2.5 km ( not 2km )
.
again a lol by you, do you think soldier will go straight to tank with a ATGM? Himalayas and rajasthan have many places to hide like mountains , stones, trees . ATGM is weapon which is used while hiding.
.
4 km range is enough of Nag.

 

[Akim]

Homework 115-th armored plant.
T-80DBVD

 

[Damian]

helina have range of 8 km and pakis and chinese tanks will be vulnerable against apache and if higher altitude then against LCH
.
India to order large number of Javelin anti-tank missiles from US - Times Of India
.
the range of javelin is 2.5 km ( not 2km )
.
again a lol by you, do you think soldier will go straight to tank with a ATGM? Himalayas and rajasthan have many places to hide like mountains , stones, trees . ATGM is weapon which is used while hiding.
.
4 km range is enough of Nag.

Tanks have thermal sights. You won't believe how well seen is thermal signature of human being in a modern thermal sight. If tanks crews are properly trained, keep their sectors, ATGM crews might be surprised. And if tanks have also active protection systems... well good luck for ATGM crews.
@Akim interesting vehicles, are these for Ukrainian Army from stocks?

 

[Dazzler]

I hope you are familiar with ATGMs . Right now we have nag ATGM, helina etc. and in negotiation with america / israel for javelin/ spike . And then there is a project running in drdo for man portable ATGM . And to fight against tanks we have apache ,LCH ,rudra, mig35 etc. so tank will hardly be used to attack tanks

ATGM cannot substitute an apfsds penetrator. air cover is important thougb, rather vital.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

ATGM cannot substitute an apfsds penetrator. air cover is important thougb, rather vital.

didn't I posted names of helicopter?

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

Tanks have thermal sights. You won't believe how well seen is thermal signature of human being in a modern thermal sight. If tanks crews are properly trained, keep their sectors, ATGM crews might be surprised. And if tanks have also active protection systems... well good luck for ATGM crews.
@Akim interesting vehicles, are these for Ukrainian Army from stocks?

can tank crew see ATGM holder finding behind a stone or behind trees . As far I know thermal sights can be used for night visibility.
.
and what for helicopters and many weapons like MRBL etc.

 

[Dazzler]

didn't I posted names of helicopter?

so only indian army has attack helis? not china or pakistan?

 

[Damian]

can tank crew see ATGM holder finding behind a stone or behind trees . As far I know thermal sights can be used for night visibility.

Currently thermal sights are used as primary sights, so they are used during day, night, good and bad weather. And to fire ATGM you need to get from behind cover to see your target and guide ATGM to it or lock it on target. This takes time. If tank crews are properly trained and they keep their observation sectors, they can see ATGM operator trying to guide ATGM or lock it on target. Tank will fire much faster on target, and also tank rounds fly much faster than ATGM's.

Also tanks can have active protection systems that will shoot down ATGM's, like Israeli ASPRO-A vel Trophy and Iron Fist.


Such system can shoot down ATGM's or RPG's, and also show crew of protected vehicle, from where enemy is firing at them, thus they can destroy threat much faster.

There is plenty of such systems, like Quick Kill and Iron Curtain from USA:


Zaslon from Ukraine:


Arena from Russia:


AMAP-ADS from Germany:


Many more countries are working on similiar systems, for example Poland have it's own research and development program fo active protection system.

 

[Damian]

 

[Dazzler]

can tank crew see ATGM holder finding behind a stone or behind trees . As far I know thermal sights can be used for night visibility.
.
and what for helicopters and many weapons like MRBL etc.

Simple answer is,

Thermal sights allow excellent night visibility but are unable to see behind walls, stones, hills, mounds etc. However, an Active Protection System protects the vehicle from an ATGM attack from any direction.

The protection is fortified by hard kill APS systems such as Trophy, Zaslon Arena etc (see Damian, videos). Two type of APS are used globally, soft kill (Shtora, Varta etc) and hard kill (Trophy, Zaslon Arena etc.)

You see, Primarily, this is why an ATGM attack is considered vulnerable against a modern AFV, IFV equipped with an APS protection. There are other reasons as well such as a resilient layered composite armour covering which makes an ATGM virtually useless.

 

[Dazzler]

@Andrei_bt

something that might interest you

THERMAL IMAGING LAB EQUIPPED WITH MRTD AND CARD LEVEL TESTING FACILITY

REPAIR AND TESTING LABS FOR FIRE CONTROL INSTRUMENTS OF TANKS

 

[Dazzler]

locally made 125 mm improved smoothbore gun by Gun factory for Al khalid, HIT

CHARACTERISTICS A/U

Caliber
125MM,Smooth Bore

(Autofrettaged and Chrome Plated)

Tube Length 6000 mm

Gun Length 6935 mm

Chamber Length 840 mm

Weight of Gun 2500 Kg

Elevation 14Ëš

Depression 6Ëš

Rate of Fire 6~8 RPM with autoloader

Firing System Electrical & Manual

Service life of Barel 1100 Standard Rounds

BALLISTIC A/U TYPE OF AMMUNITION

APFSDS HEAT,FS HE,FS

Chamber Pressure (Normal Charge) Mpa 470.7 294.2 343.2

Chamber Pressure (Supper Charge) Mpa 675±5.0 333.4 377.3±3.92

Muzzle Velocity Meter/Second 1730 905 850

Weigh t of Complete Shell Kg 21 29 33

 

[Warhawk]

Rate of Fire 6~8 RPM with autoloader

Service life of Barel 1100 Standard Rounds

Don't you guys face problems maintaining the auto-loader, especially for the units near the border area ?

And that service life of the gun is way superior to that of Arjun's rifled gun

 

[Dazzler]

Don't you guys face problems maintaining the auto-loader, especially for the units near the border area ?

And that service life of the gun is way superior to that of Arjun's rifled gun

PA operate three thanks with autoloader with a smooth maintenance cycle so no issues, even at border region, infact, tank regiments are usually stationed there with a smooth supply chain.

Regarding the barrel life, traditionally, a smoothbore gun suffers less wear and tear compared to a rifled gun, thus better service life. Although this may vary version to version.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

so only indian army has attack helis? not china or pakistan?

nothing like quality of apache ,LCH

 

[Dazzler]

nothing like quality of apache ,LCH

tactics r important, not just technology.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

tactics r important, not just technology.

:taunt1: I never heard pakis army ever played good tactics, may be its pattons . The best tactic was to hide the aircrafts while 1971 and kargil.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

120mm thermobaric +
fragmentation round for
Arjun being tested