Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[Damian]

US army was developing MRM-CE up until fairly recently:

It was BLOS GLATGM, not classic HEAT round.

possibly, although it has some flaws of itself, such as larger side profile, and post-penetration spalling causing ammunition cook-off, and disabling the tanks fighting ability. also with the ammunition horizontally stored instead of vertically, it could be possible to load the rounds faster.

There are no perfect solutions.

 

[Austin]

Indian Tank Ammunition Scenario -KE Penetrators

 

[collegeboy16]

BLOS weapon for tanks is stupid, tanks have the armor and mobility to fight head-on, so they are not shy to direct firefights like artillery.
If damian is right that apfsds is the future, then i think the trend would be more powerful tank guns incorporating novel tech like liquid propellant/ETC shooting only 3 main types of ammo; apfsds for direct fire applications against targets w/ heavy armor, programmable HE for heavy duty multipurpose use, and some guided extended range round that could be scramjet apfsds.

 

[Damian]

BLOS weapon for tanks is stupid, tanks have the armor and mobility to fight head-on, so they are not shy to direct firefights like artillery.

No, it is not stupid. BLOS weapons for tanks give them more capabilities, they can act as small very precise artillery, defeating the most dangerous threats before engaging enemy directly.

 

[Waffen SS]

I think now-a-days Tanks should be used as Self-propelled artillery to support infantry instead of using them for Armoured Thrust, it is mainly due to fear of RPGs.

Just like in Iraq-Iran war both side used their tanks as static artillery due to fear of RPGs. Using Tanks as static field artillery is a good idea, it is more mobile then typical field gun, plus then no need to be worried about RPGs.
@Damian @militarysta, can we add 3 round burst fire mode in tanks? like many rifles?

If we add it, then even obsolete T 55 will be able to defeat M1 Abram. T 55's first 100 mm round will damage M1 Abram's armour after hitting it in any point, 2d round will make a hole in that damaged part of armour by further hitting it, 3rd round will go through the hole, and explode inside the tank.

 

[collegeboy16]

i stand by what i said, blos for tanks is stupid. when you have thin-skinned FCS tank it makes sense, but with abrams, its just unnecessary capability that adds more expense than needed. if you want precise firepower, you go in with the abrams or use excaliber rounds from arty.
@above, no that wont happen. even if you managed to make the rounds hit the same exact spot the penetrator that is embedded in the first shot would make good armor against next projectiles. also next gen tanks with new APS wont even be touched by simple RPGs, next gen APS like russky a-stan could stop apfsds projectiles, slow rpgs would be nothing.

 

[Damian]

i stand by what i said, blos for tanks is stupid. when you have thin-skinned FCS tank it makes sense, but with abrams, its just unnecessary capability that adds more expense than needed. if you want precise firepower, you go in with the abrams or use excaliber rounds from arty.

Real military knows better, this is why US Army wanted to integrate BLOS M1111 with M1.

even if you managed to make the rounds hit the same exact spot the penetrator that is embedded in the first shot would make good armor against next projectiles.

It is complete fantasy to even believe it is possible to hit exactly the same spot. Not matters if we fire from rifle, tank gun, or even guided munitions like ATGM's. In battle conditions it is just immposible and difficult even in laboratory conditions.

 

[Dejawolf]

i stand by what i said, blos for tanks is stupid. when you have thin-skinned FCS tank it makes sense, but with abrams, its just unnecessary capability that adds more expense than needed. if you want precise firepower, you go in with the abrams or use excaliber rounds from arty.
@above, no that wont happen. even if you managed to make the rounds hit the same exact spot the penetrator that is embedded in the first shot would make good armor against next projectiles. also next gen tanks with new APS wont even be touched by simple RPGs, next gen APS like russky a-stan could stop apfsds projectiles, slow rpgs would be nothing.

BLOS top-attack is the future of tank warfare.
current armour is limited by it's ability to find good terrain to fight from, and it requires significant skill to find good battle positions with good fields of fire that doesn't expose you to enemy flanking fire. anytime you expose your tank to engage enemy armor, you risk flank shots if you engage an enemy in the wrong direction.
with BLOS, you can drive up behind a ridge, send off a drone to scout enemy advances. if they are a traditional tank force, you will be able to see them advancing,
or exposing themselves to spot your positions. then you can, from behind cover, decimate their positions, basically one-hit top-attack kill all of their tanks, with them never being able to fire a shot. it's like having an apache with the staying power of a tank, because it is a tank.
of course BLOS usefulness diminishes to nothing in cityscapes, and forests.

 

[Damian]

And each tank holds 40-42 rounds of ammunition on avarage, so each tank can have 10 BLOS round, 20-22 APFSDS rounds and 10 HE rounds. Or ammunition load suited for mission. Each tank platoon is 3 to 4 tanks, and each tank company is 3 to 4 platoons. Do the math.

With BLOS rounds You can eliminate all most dangerous targets, and as Dejawolf said decimate enemy forces, and then finish them with non guided rounds in direct attack.

With BLOS ammunition you just give tanks another usefull capability and increase it's universality as weapon platform. Actually non other platform can do as much as tank can do, and have such huge improvement potential.

 

[collegeboy16]

yeah right... while your tanks are busy shooting blindly behind a ridge, a real enemy would just do the same to you with proper artillery from more than twice the distance. oh and that drone you got, say goodbye to it when air defence vehicles are in the vicinity which you cant even reach. what happens now to the 10 odd xm111s in every tank? also, how sure are you that the enemy will do a parade on the way to your position, that they wont do evasive maneuvers? how are you even sure the enemy tanks dont come with LWS+ smoke poppers or even APS?

 

[Damian]

But I am not sure damn it. This is talking with armchair generals. Armed forces are system, you have armor mechanized forces, infantry forces, recce, artillery, air forces, navy, everything is like a living organism, cooperating with each other and supplementing each other.

Oh BTW, XM1111 in BLOS mode was not guided to target via laser beam, but it had a double type guiding system, one type was laser beam, second was passive thermal seeker.

 

[ramakrishna]

New Russian-made Armata main battle tank of Uralvagonzavod will be in production for 2016.
Russia will launch the production of its new main battle tank Armata in 2016, announced Thursday, November 21, 2013, in Moscow Vyacheslav Khalitov, deputy general manager of the research and production group of Uralvagonzavod in Nizhny Tagil.

I saw this on one Facebook group ... can any one confirm this???? if possible provide the stats also ...

 

[Damian]

I saw this on one Facebook group ... can any one confirm this???? if possible provide the stats also ...

This image is just CGI of general idea how new tank based on "Armata" platform can look like, it does not show the real vehicle as it is still highly classified project. More detailed informations might be revealed by Russians in coming years.

 

[Dejawolf]

yeah right... while your tanks are busy shooting blindly behind a ridge, a real enemy would just do the same to you with proper artillery from more than twice the distance. oh and that drone you got, say goodbye to it when air defence vehicles are in the vicinity which you cant even reach. what happens now to the 10 odd xm111s in every tank? also, how sure are you that the enemy will do a parade on the way to your position, that they wont do evasive maneuvers? how are you even sure the enemy tanks dont come with LWS+ smoke poppers or even APS?

the point of BLOS is that the enemy donj't know where you are. all they can see are the drones buzzing around, while from somewhere, their tanks are getting killed by an unknown enemy.

also drones come in all sizes:

this drone will fit into an ammunition pouch. good luck shooting that one down with air defense.

enemy don't have to be on a parade, they can take up good battle positions behind a ridge, and you will be able to look over the ridge with your drone, and kill them.

 

[313230]

Hey Damian, next time please add a ruler to the images of your designed tank for measuring dimensions (better than a reference human, how tall is he). Also please note its length, height, front armor thickness,.. It saves people like me from counting the pixel (to get the dimensions out of your images)

 

[313230]

And Damian, you could use some simple 3D software to draw your armor and it will return the volume of armor. Multiply it with density you will get the result of how the armor weighs.

You can use sketchup, it is free, very easy to use and can return a volume of a closed mesh

 

[Damian]

I am not author of these drawings, author is my friend, he prepared PDF document, later I will translate it and post it here.

 

[Dazzler]

Look at A-Khalid turret base .

If it is 30-40 mm .... ?
it is cust . Same for Type96/99.

This is a Type-59M turret being reworked for Al Zarrar at HIT, not Al Khalid.

 

[ramakrishna]

Guyz ... I found a list of the top 10 main battle tanks in the world based on weaponry, mobility and protection.

Top ten list

Damn Germany's Leopard 2A7+ is leading the list pushing Abrams and Challenger down to 2nd and 3rd positions ... is really leopard superior than abrams and challenger?????

 

[Damian]

Guyz ... I found a list of the top 10 main battle tanks in the world based on weaponry, mobility and protection.

Top ten list

Damn Germany's Leopard 2A7+ is leading the list pushing Abrams and Challenger down to 2nd and 3rd positions ... is really leopard superior than abrams and challenger?????

Please, avoid these idiotic "top 10" lists written by morons, for morons. And no, Leopard is not superior. All tanks have strong and weak sides in their design. And most modern MBT's, are preaty much very similiar in their characteristics, comparable, with no visible superiority over each other.

And seriously, do you need to trash forums with stupid posts, full of stupid questions based on some stupid internet articles?