LOC, LAC & International Border skirmishs

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any countey which depends on import has to kept a stock of ammunition ,but the problem is these ammunition expired every 7-8 years......for a country of size of india , its a huge cost.....

 

[Arihant]

This has been debunked by VK Singh as part agenda and part propaganda. VK Singh said in an interview that the CAG guy who did that audit was himself a part of the war planning commission and he knows 'how these things are done', implying that he knows that there are hidden reserves which are not subject to CAG audit so the CAG is only auditing the weapons stock which we have officially declared to the world.

He categorically stated two things, first is that we have the reserves to fight an intense war of much more than 100 days, and second, even a 10 day 'intense war' reserve is enough to demolish Pakistan.

Please note that this phrase 'intense war' is a technical term and represents a massive material usage which means that ALL guns you have are firing all day long and all the tanks you have are running all day long. To put everything in contest, even the Kargil war which lasted 3 months saw the use of the equivalent of a 10 day 'intense war' reserve (3L Bofors shells) which cost a total of 4B$ which was 6% of our defense budget in 1999. A country like India going into an intense war would mean a world war like situation. In a normal war (non-intense/ short depth skirmish) your 100 day intense war reserves will last a year, and within that duration they will be constantly replenished by the manufacturing factories. Even one shipment of material from a friendly country boosts the capacity by another 3 months.

We have the war reserves, now put this issue to rest.

you are right..just 1 and half years ago one news came in media that one of the major city is sitting on fire as the nearby OFB had enough ammunition to fight intense war for much more than 6 months, and anytime some disaster can happen bacause of that much ammunition. One OFB official himself said that. After that news was totally buried.

 

[Indian Sniper.001]

you are right..just 1 and half years ago one news came in media that one of the major city is sitting on fire as the nearby OFB had enough ammunition to fight intense war for much more than 6 months, and anytime some disaster can happen bacause of that much ammunition. One OFB official himself said that. After that news was totally buried.

Any idea which media house? Obviously it was correct, but want to know the source. All this info. is classified for particular reasons.

 

[Rahul Singh]

After CAG Report, Sources Say Critical Ammo To Start Arriving In Weeks

Just a normal CAG report or GOI is using it as a tool of deception!!
Let Chinese continue guessing what's up our plan.

 

[IndianHawk]

Just a normal CAG report or GOI is using it as a tool of deception!!

It's a CAG report that means it relies on data gathered almost a year before or even more . Then it takes months to prepare the report. So this report is blind as to current stocks , deals and previous years deals .

If anyone to believe that report represents current situation they are stupid.

 

[captscooby81]

well i seriously feel there is motive behind this CAG report ..Two things which come to my mind ..
1.Create a panic and push enough orders for imports (which means more money to loot )
2.Send a deception that we are short of Arms and ammunitions and we cannot fight a war with china now so we should go for peaceful withdrawal from Dolam to save our soldiers.

After so much posturing in the Dolam and things are not going anywhere may be GOI decides its best to pull back to our LAC line and how better to give this CAG report as a reason to do it ..

Just a normal CAG report or GOI is using it as a tool of deception!!

 

[Screambowl]

Just a normal CAG report or GOI is using it as a tool of deception!!
Let Chinese continue guessing what's up our plan.

well i seriously feel there is motive behind this CAG report ..Two things which come to my mind ..
1.Create a panic and push enough orders for imports (which means more money to loot )
2.Send a deception that we are short of Arms and ammunitions and we cannot fight a war with china now so we should go for peaceful withdrawal from Dolam to save our soldiers.

After so much posturing in the Dolam and things are not going anywhere may be GOI decides its best to pull back to our LAC line and how better to give this CAG report as a reason to do it ..

This is what I am saying. When on a forum here normal guys can figure out that the CAG is wrong then obviously the whole intelligence machinery in Pak and China would know more than this.

Then what is the use of deception?

And why suddenly this report comes out. And I remember even during 2008 such reports started coming out.

Is this a way military pressurizes more fund allocation for ammo procurement?

 

[Rahul Singh]

well i seriously feel there is motive behind this CAG report ..Two things which come to my mind ..
1.Create a panic and push enough orders for imports (which means more money to loot )
2.Send a deception that we are short of Arms and ammunitions and we cannot fight a war with china now so we should go for peaceful withdrawal from Dolam to save our soldiers.

After so much posturing in the Dolam and things are not going anywhere may be GOI decides its best to pull back to our LAC line and how better to give this CAG report as a reason to do it ..

That will be only one way of looking at. Others are:

a) India can not fight and defeat an adversary as strong as China without having substantially large defence manufacturing sector. An ominous message to Trump administration which wants to have great defence relation with India for countering China but reluctant to pass ToT and manufacturing. Take F-16 for example.

b) All sections within MoD and Military which otherwise favours Imports over local systems citing reasons like immediate requirements should now get the idea that defeating China without indigenous weapons is near impossible as no amount of imports no matter how much money you have to spend over can make Indian military capable enough to sustain any war with China which not only has 4 times out defence budget but also develops and manufacturers almost 100% of its military hardware.

Do mind 60 years of Congress rule has made arms agents(very powerful with international connections) a part and parcel of military hardware purchase wing. And you can not take on these arms agents head on and survive you government. So government is making point of urgency for a case to change in national interest. Once a ground is prepared GoI can push for hard and significant reforms for PSUs and other defense manufacturing units. Call it case for greater privatization. Something SP policy is already taking forward.

 

[Indian Sniper.001]

After so much posturing in the Dolam and things are not going anywhere may be GOI decides its best to pull back to our LAC line and how better to give this CAG report as a reason to do it ..

Do you really think the GoI will pull back from LAC, or did you mean that this is what China would think?

 

[Screambowl]

AFAIK Nasr was developed to counter Cold start. Coz it can throw tactical nukes which will be used to counter Indian armoured thrust into Pak territory.

Pakis want to convert India's cold start into nuclear war followed by 2 front war where one front is going nuclear.

 

[captscooby81]

Remember we are not in LAC now we are in Bhutan or the Disputed area of land between Bhutan and China ...Well we never know what deception games the govt wants to play ..I just puked out what came to my tiny common man brain ..Now what strategy's the Men in uniform and white khurta wallah s do only God knows untill it comes out in the open public ..

The guy who first created this story of CAG report Manu puppy is basically trying to get more eye balls to the new master he is working ..The print some shit owned by shekar gupta ji ... And i take with a bag of salt all these defence honest or ethics ..you never know which journo is working on whose side ,, Foreign arms exporter, Local private arms manufacturers or even sometimes Defence PSU side too end of the days there is money involved every where to make when it comes to defence .

Do you really think the GoI will pull back from LAC, or did you mean that this is what China would think?

 

[Rahul Singh]

Then what is the use of deception?

Although it gives away deception part. When combined with our hold up at Dolam(Doklam), both China and Pakistan would be thinking what's up with GoI's plan. Are they deliberately trying to look weak? If so, then for what? Do they want Indian military to be taken lightly so we(China Paki) could miscalculate and fumble? Or they plan to surprise us with their real strength once war begins?

Deception is not just about providing a false figure(etc.) but throwing extra probable so that enemy can not make a clear cut calculation. Something which often leads to long planning period and consiquently loss in interest.

India wants talks not war so we are making calculation harder and complex for Chinese. Simple as that. Don't hide, don't tell. Keep them guessing.

 

[Screambowl]

both China and Pakistan would be thinking

They think and calculate on the basis of intel inputs, the CAG report is not an intel input.

The point is that, the only use of such report is to pressurize the govt for more funds.

 

[ezsasa]

Chill everybody!!!

These CAG reports are tabled every year in parliament.

It is being discussed only because of "chowmein wars".

I would be interested in next year's report, to see if remedies are really working.

 

[Rahul Singh]

They think and calculate on the basis of intel inputs, the CAG report is not an intel input.

The point is that, the only use of such report is to pressurize the govt for more funds.

Could be could be not.

Any agency such as CAG of any democratic country provides enough inputs for intelligence. Specially to those nations which considers such agencies as weakness for a democratic nation and their absence or non significant role as their (quasi democratic nation such as Pakistan or a totalitarian regime like CCP) strength.

 

[F-14B]

Sikkim standoff: India needs to stop looking for reasons why China won't up the ante

http://www.firstpost.com/india/sikk...asons-why-china-wont-up-the-ante-3842891.html

The powers that be in New Delhi seem cheerfully oblivious to the Chinese belligerence on the border. So far, since the 1962 spanking, which we asked for by going a bridge too far in what was supposed, to be orchestrated conflict, the Sino-Indian relationship has teetered between warm and lukewarm. No major conflagration has occurred on the common borders. But where Doka La is concerned, this is an international border. The fear that Beijing‘s influence in Thimpu could be a lot more tangible than we think could see it coming into the orbit of Chinese influence, very much like what Nepal is also experiencing.

Representational image. Reuters

That is the intrinsic difference this time around. Their troops are also intensifying their activity and the Chinese global warnings about cutting India to size have a certain credibility.

We have three choices. The first is to play ostrich and pretend it is just a bit of posturing by a nation that will not actually press the button. The second is to wake up to reality and get talking because we don’t need to battle and if Bhutan — whom we have promised to protect militarily against Chinese adventurism — wants to be the prey in that hunt, why do we get into it?

The third is to have coffee and wake up to the unthinkable. We realise that Beijing is not playing games and intends to take us on even as we financially feed the dragon by investing in cheap Chinese ripoffs and continue to play 'let’s pretend this is not happening'.

The massing of troops is not for fun and maintaining them in red alert mode is hugely expensive. You can feed them rah rah rhetoric only for a certain time. At some stage, they have to stand down or see action. Otherwise, their morale droops. This is China’s dilemma. If it backs off now, getting back to pole position again will be onerous. Consequently, even if it hurts itself, the odds of it creating some tension are very good and improve with each passing day.

We have to get our ducks in a row and stop looking for reasons why they will not up the ante.

While the reference to Sushma Swaraj as the ‘lady foreign minister’ might be a gender slur and merely an example of chauvinistic bad form in its mockery of India’s ability to take China on, the Farooq Abdullah statement of intent is a lot more dangerous. The former Jammu and Kashmir chief minister has suggested a third party mediation in the row between India and Pakistan over Kashmir and specifically named China. The timing is worrisome and we should take heed because Beijing could interpret it as an invitation to intercede.

China, at this point, knows that the Northeast is easy pickings and even if it sent scores of soldiers in civvy get up to create a fifth column, they would melt into the masses without our even knowing. Having caused tension in Sikkim and Bhutan, why not stir the stick in Kashmir and place India truly on the back foot?

With all these unpleasant scenarios no longer in the realm of unreality, it becomes an imperative for the government and the prime minister to reassure the nation that we have not lowered our guard and are prepared to defend the land. Don’t hear that call to arms.

and Pakistan needs to stay out of this because between the elephant and the dragon the ant called Pakistan will be quashed

 

[Pandora]

Koi yea cag reportcard ko official secret act mein rakhega......

 

[Screambowl]

Could be could be not.

Any agency such as CAG of any democratic country provides enough inputs for intelligence. Specially to those nations which considers such agencies as weakness for a democratic nation and their absence or non significant role as their (quasi democratic nation such as Pakistan or a totalitarian regime like CCP) strength.

That is through RTI. It's the RTI which provides that. This is why a lot of things are not answerable to RTI which may be of national security.

 

[Bornubus]

every thing comes with some cost and patience.
Pakistan has it's army too and there are planners too. They shouldn't be underestimated. They also possess machinery to inflict damage.

Or else why do you think LoC has been hot in July by western Bhangi

 

[Kazah]

New chutiyapa erupting in pak