LOC, LAC & International Border skirmishs

[hit&run]

To be frank, I really don't support this, this would mean India is incapable of handling China alone, which according to me is false.

Your concerns and unfounded. Pick any big war; none was fought without alliances not even WOT when USA could have done it with 1/4 of its strength.

 

[hit&run]

another fool- shit new article, well it related to india-china stand-off so posting here . if other feel to be moved please do..........

How Hindu nationalist agenda is linked to Doklam stand-off
5-6 minutes
SOURCE: IANS

The depressing drumbeat of bad news from Jammu and Kashmir and Bhutan’s Doklam plateau may or may not be a consequence of the policies or actions of Narendra Modi’s government.

Yet it should serve as a wake-up call for the governing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), which seems blithely oblivious to India’s external and internal security vulnerabilities as it single-mindedly pursues its implicit goal of Hindu nationalist domination of the political landscape.

Take the standoff in Doklam. On the face of it, the Chinese decision to build a road through the disputed Bhutan territory — the “routine affair of a sovereign nation”, according to Beijing — is a challenge India could not have planned for.

While flare-ups along the northeastern border are nothing new, the primary lesson of the 1962 war for India has been to avoid giving China any pretext to inflict yet another defeat.

It is also an indisputable fact that there was no serious Indian provocation in the run-up to the Doklam stand-off, unless its refusal to join China’s Belt and Road Initiative or attend the Belt and Road Forum in Beijing in May could be considered one.

The question thus arises as to whether renewed religious and political tensions in India emboldened China to size up its rival on the picturesque meadows of the Sikkim-Bhutan-Tibet tri-junction area.

With the level of violence confronting the army and paramilitary forces rising in Jammu and Kashmir, both along the Line of Control and in the Valley, the temptation for China to stir things up must have been strong, well before Indian troops crossed into Doklam on June 16 and physically blocked Chinese road-construction activity there.

What possibly added to the temptation was the spectre of ferment conjured up by the rash of attacks on Muslims by cow-protection vigilantes and mobs, events that have projected a picture of instability and lawlessness which in turn has been magnified by social media and the international media.

The alarming news headlines would hardly have gone unnoticed in the corridors of power in Beijing, ever watchful of opportunities to pursue the “recovery” of territories it believes China lost to Western or Japanese imperialism.

The government of Xi Jinping is, of course, scarcely a paragon of peaceful accommodation with China’s Muslim and Buddhist minorities, respectively, in Xinjiang and Tibet. Even so, the perception that the Modi government is inimical to minority rights serves the interests of China (and ally Pakistan) by virtue of its potential for exacerbating India’s religious and societal cleavages.

Against this background, Bhutan, which acts as a buffer between China and India’s Siliguri Corridor, may have provided the perfect location for a major power to wage a phony war on a rising but weaker rival without actually starting a confrontation.

Whether or not this was the strategic calculation of the People’s Liberation Army is hard to ascertain, but what is clear is that the conditions for a little military experiment were conducive, to say the least.

To its credit, the Modi government has of late taken a number of administrative and legislative steps that are likely to prove economically beneficial in the long term. It is also courting foreign investors and technology companies, encouraging import substitution in the defence sector and promoting skill development and entrepreneurship to tackle youth unemployment.

Where the government is falling short is in its understanding of the possible strategic repercussions of its narrow Hindu nationalist agenda and its attempts to control the message.

With everyone from regional politicians and police officers to army chiefs and TV news anchors trying to jump onto the bandwagon of hypernationalism, sound judgement and constructive criticism are being drowned out by the din of competitive patriotism on critical issues ranging from Kashmiri youths’ alienation to mob lynchings.

Public discourse in India may be inexorably on an insular and inward-looking trajectory but, alas, in the age of Twitter, social videos and Facebook, what happens inside the country does not stay inside the country.

Furthermore, South Asia continues to be a rough neighbourhood where both state and non-state actors are constantly on the lookout for opportunities to stir up trouble.

Going forward, India’s political parties, be they ruling or opposition, need to be disabused of the notion that they enjoy unfettered rights but no responsibilities in their pursuit of domestic popularity and power.

For his part, Modi, as the Prime Minister, needs to put — in words, deeds and tweets — the national interest ahead of the BJP’s interests, regardless of the exigencies of electoral politics.

If the Doklam crisis ultimately succeeds in firing a warning shot across the bows of India’s armchair Hindu nationalist warriors, then it will have been a salutary lesson for them: Identity politics and polarising rhetoric may make them feel stronger, but they leave the nation weaker and vulnerable.

You didn't provided link. A bit of googling showed The Quit and Business Standard. I went for a leak then. :biggrin2:

 

[gekko]

And the Napakis sold you snake oil that you happily lapped up

He not only lapped up the snake oil but even brought some extra to share it with us. Aww, such a considerate human being.

Same glue was holding them together in 71.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

BC yeh glue hai ya goo hai. Sala kabhi bhi nikal jaata hai.

 

[hit&run]

Esteemed Marxist journalist Senguptaji writes articles advising India to show restraint and seek peaceful resolution when it comes to Kashmir and China.

Meanwhile his Twitter timeline shows him suggesting North India to be eliminated as it is a "blot on humanity"


"Can no one rid India of this blot on humanity called North India? "Three held for assaulting Muslim family on train"

Bhadrapursha [spellings] are beyond any criticism. If it wasn't Hindu Mahasabha patrolling streets of Calcutta and doing rescue and relief they would have all culled and raped. 1947

They are special breed who will never learn.

 

[mayfair]

They are special breed who will never learn.

They don't want to learn because they know when shit hits the fan, they'll either be nowhere around or someone from the very group they have been vilifying and demonising will come to their aid..because well dharma.

It has happened in the past- as you mentioned 1947 in Calcutta or 1971 in Bangladesh.

Once their arse is saved, these ungrateful cretin will go back to hating and cussing India and Indians in peace..

 

[hit&run]

The question is when Pakistan will be disintegrated.

I am not sure in what capacity you are asking this question. Disintegrating Pakistan is plenty of killing and collateral damage.

Pakis have the glue of Islam holding them together and they have had a major chip on their shoulder for all their existence since people have been predicting their demise ever since their country got created. Their troops are well motivated, average people are uber nationalistic all because of common religion. Let's not underestimate the enemy..

The answer lies within, not in Pakistan.

Dhimmis masquerading as defenders of the land, who change sides with little of the discomfort will not stand the heat.

 

[Bornubus]

I think after winning 1971 war and disintegrating Pakistan into two, our army code of conduct and government magnanimity must have surely been noticed by Pakistani masses. So one thing is pretty clear that no matter what is the rhetoric, leadership both sides do understand well the devastating effect of full fledged war. Both sides are mature enough to not to kill hundreds of millions . Europe on the other side has never been the same. Yet because of Hindu Muslim issue peace is not really possible. Even if Pakistan as in current state stop existing , "The headache of Pakistan" will continue in one or the other way. Even the most jahil Pakistanis live in the mughal dream of ruling India not of burning India down to ashes. That does make a huge difference.

Sahi bola bhai

,___________________________,

 

[Kshatriya87]

BC yeh glue hai ya goo hai. Sala kabhi bhi nikal jaata hai.

Same goo between KSA & Pork? Same goo between KSA & Qatar?

Inke dimag me goo hai, ab toh porki pani bhi goo se bhara hue pite hai..

 

[Kshatriya87]

I think that will never happen . But again I am not the right person to ask about its eventuality.
From what I infered after talking to Pakistanis that Politicians and Military both sides have been selling this churan to their respective audience. One guy told me that no matter what even after 4 wars both sides never razed down each other cities like what happened during wars in Europe. So which do imply that there is some understanding between leaderships of both of the countries.
Whenever pressure increases this churan is supplied to "gas patients" just that.

The only reason pakistan hasn't razed our cities is because they can't. They will only be able to raze with nukes. They don't do it because India will leave nothing standing in porkistan.

Yesterday I posted a link. Mussarraf wanted to use nukes against India in 1999 Kargil war but had sleepless nights thinking about Indian retaliation. THAT is the only reason why he didn't raze our cities.

It is important that you know the reason behind their restraint and not stay delusional.

 

[Kshatriya87]

Both sides are mature enough to not to kill hundreds of millions .

Porkis killed tens of millions in bangladesh. They would have killed hundreds of millions if India wouldn't have intervened. BOTH sides are NOT mature enough. India is.

Even the most jahil Pakistanis live in the mughal dream of ruling India not of burning India down to ashes.

And what exactly do you mean by porki Mughal rule in India? What do you think they intend to do by ruling India? I will answer that by saying simply - establishing Muslim rule and completing their wet dream of Gazwa-e-Hind. In case you haven't read the whole thing, let me tell you that Gazwa does not stop at just setting up Muslim rule in India. It intends to convert all to muslims so India forever remains a muslim state.

You must know by now the Hindu percentage in porkistan in 1947 and percentage population now. What do you think happened under muslim rule? Killings, forceful conversions, rape and marry tactics etc.

Same thing is the DREAM of porkis for India. Once India is conquered, massive persecution will begin. Temples will be destroyed, Jizya will be enforced. Jizya in itself is structured in such a way that the infidels cannot bare the cost and in order to feed themselves and their families, will convert to Islam. Other atrocities will follow.

I will say again that it is important not to stay secularly delusional about porki and muzzie motives.

 

[Bornubus]

===============================

 

[Kshatriya87]

CRPF reworks strategy to take Naxals and militants head on in Bastar and south Kashmir

Wiser after back-to-back Maoist ambushes in Sukma in April this year and the recent terror attack on a bus carrying Amarnath pilgrims, the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) has stepped up its operational tactics by shifting to a multi-pronged approach.

This includes new standard operating procedures (SOPs) and up-scaling the personnel training mechanism. Besides this, the paramilitary force would now have indigenously designed bullet-proof vehicles.

“CRPF has devised new SOPs for different operations and several other measures have been taken up to tackle Maoists in Naxal-prone areas and militants in Kashmir valley. This is an ongoing process. We are looking at better ground surveillance, better mobility to have more protection to our force. We’re getting bullet-proof vehicles as well,” said Rajeev Rai Bhatnagar, director general, CRPF in New Delhi, on the occasion of its 78th anniversary on Wednesday.

Representational image. Reuters

The recent attack on a bus during Amarnath Yatra that killed 8 pilgrims and incidents of stone-pelting in Kashmir have compelled the CRPF to have more bullet-proof vehicles in its fleet. The force has taken recourse to ‘jugaad’ technology to meet the purpose.

“We need more bullet-proof vehicles. As regular procurement process is a tedious one, we’ve improvised our vehicles and converted them into bullet-proof ones at our workshops by using local materials and local vendors. We’re working towards bullet-proofing a few of our buses which are used in convoys. Two buses have already been bullet-proofed. Government is also looking at fast-track procedures,” said Bhatnagar.

Currently, these two bullet-proof buses are plying CRPF personnel and locals from Jammu to Srinagar.

“The force has improvised its two buses through jugaad technology and converted them into bullet-proof ones by retro-fitting in its workshop. We’ve used local materials and roped in local vendors to develop them. We’re constantly working on its mechanism to make it more effective because, once you make a bus bullet-proof by providing a shield to its exterior, it becomes heavier and affects the manoeuvrability. We’ll get bullet-proofing done to more vehicles from buses to lighter ones. It’ll safeguard our personnel moving with convoys,” a senior CRPF official in know of technicalities told Firstpost.

CRPF’s multi-pronged approach

— New SOPs made during different operations at different places.
— Better coordination with state police forces like in Chhattisgarh and Jammu and Kashmir.
— Better intelligence-sharing on ground between CRPF, state police and other agencies.
— Scaling-up of training methodology by devising drills and joint training sessions of CoBRA with other troops.
— Improving response time during operations.
— Strengthening the safety of the security force by briefing the troops ahead of an operation, follow-ups, constant feedback and knowledge of equipment they carry.
— Inclusion of more number of indigenously manufactured bullet-proof vehicles.
— After terror attack on Amarnath pilgrims, more number of checkpoints have been created to keep a track of convoys and other passengers joining at different points, with special focus on road opening party (ROP) duty and convoy protection.
— Advanced weapon training and technological development.

Left Wing Extremism (LWE): A major concern

Naxal menace continues to haunt security personnel, as CRPF has lost 906 personnel between 2010 and 2017 (30 June), according to an MHA report.

As LWE remains a major area of concern for internal security of the country, CRPF has focused its attention on 10 LWE-affected states by deploying 89 battalions including nine CoBRA battalions. It has raised a group – ‘Bastariya Battalion’ comprising local tribals of south Bastar having knowledge of local dialect, terrain and modus operandi of Maoist outfits. This is expected to provide tactical advantage to the force in fighting Maoists and also help in bringing the tribals back to mainstream.

“South Bastar is a major area of concern in LWE. But, we’ve been successful in neutralising 51 Maoists, recovering huge cache of arms and ammunition from them, after which 834 Maoists surrendered. In a joint operation called ‘Operation Prahar’ with Chhattisgarh police in south Sukma, our CoBRA battalion neutralised Maoists and recovered weapons from PLGA battalion led by Hidma, the zonal leader. As per police report, Maoists suffered heavy casualties in that operation. In the last two and half years, there has been an overall reduction in violence and, increase in surrenders and neutralization of Maoists,” the DG informed.

On Jammu & Kashmir

Besides emphasising on joint drill with Jammu and Kashmir police, the CRPF is working on law and order and controlling militancy in close collaboration with police and army. CRPF has deployed 60 battalions in Jammu and Kashmir.

“CRPF neutralised seven top militants including Hizbul Mujahideen commander Shabzar Ahmed Bhat and JeM terrorist Aquib Ahmed alias Abu Hamza, who was from across the border, besides neutralising Fidayeens. As per our assessment, we’ve been able to successfully contain the situation in Kashmir valley. In comparison to previous years, incidents of stone-pelting have declined. We effectively handled 421 stone-pelting cases this year using minimum force. We are also working towards equipping our jawans and safeguarding them from getting injured during stone pelting incidents," added Bhatnagar.

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

Porkis killed tens of millions in bangladesh. They would have killed hundreds of millions if India wouldn't have intervened. BOTH sides are NOT mature enough. India is.



And what exactly do you mean by porki Mughal rule in India? What do you think they intend to do by ruling India? I will answer that by saying simply - establishing Muslim rule and completing their wet dream of Gazwa-e-Hind. In case you haven't read the whole thing, let me tell you that Gazwa does not stop at just setting up Muslim rule in India. It intends to convert all to muslims so India forever remains a muslim state.

You must know by now the Hindu percentage in porkistan in 1947 and percentage population now. What do you think happened under muslim rule? Killings, forceful conversions, rape and marry tactics etc.

Same thing is the DREAM of porkis for India. Once India is conquered, massive persecution will begin. Temples will be destroyed, Jizya will be enforced. Jizya in itself is structured in such a way that the infidels cannot bare the cost and in order to feed themselves and their families, will convert to Islam. Other atrocities will follow.

I will say again that it is important not to stay secularly delusional about porki and muzzie motives.

These invaders destroyed almost every grand temple in northern india.See the huge huge temples which are centuries old in south india.

 

[Indian Sniper.001]

I can't stop fuckin laughing.

And the reply by global times

 

[Hiranyaksha]

Sahi bola bhai

,___________________________,

Just a quick question, in all the four wars, does Pakistan never had opportunity even for once to bomb our cities ? Let us assume for argument sake that we had air dominance and wars didn't last for months.

 

[tharun]

Pak Army LoC Ops


========================================================================

Where is that place located?
And the bunkers looks concrete and heavily reinforced, which thing in our inventory can demolish it completely?

 

[Mikesingh]

The only reason pakistan hasn't razed our cities is because they can't. They will only be able to raze with nukes. They don't do it because India will leave nothing standing in porkistan.

Yesterday I posted a link. Mussarraf wanted to use nukes against India in 1999 Kargil war but had sleepless nights thinking about Indian retaliation. THAT is the only reason why he didn't raze our cities.

Not only that he wanted to use nukes in 1999 but also in 2001.

`Mush mulled using nukes against India'

Dubai:
PTI

Pakistan's former military dictator General Pervez Musharraf has said that he mulled the use of nuclear weapons against India amid tensions following the 2001 terror attack on the Indian Parliament, but decided against doing so out of fear of retaliation, according to a media report.

Musharraf, 73, also recalled that he had many sleepless nights, asking himself whether he would or could deploy nuclear weapons, the Japanese daily `Mainichi Shimbun' said.

When tensions were high in 2001, there was a “danger when (the) nuclear threshold could have been crossed,“ the paper quoted Musharraf as saying. At the time, Musharraf had publicly said that he would not rule out the possibility of using nuclear weapons.

Musharraf also said, however, that at the time, neither India nor Pakistan had nuclear warheads on their missiles, so it would have taken one to two days to make them launch-ready . Asked whether he had ordered that missiles be equipped with nuclear warheads and put into firing position, he said, “We didn't do that and we don't think India also did that, thank God“ pointing, perhaps, to a fear of retaliation, the paper reported.

The two countries subsequently avoided an all-out clash and tensions subsided. The then army chief Musharraf ousted the then PM Nawaz Sharif in a coup in October 1999. The army general served as president from 2001 to 2008. Musharraf has been living in Dubai since last year when he was allowed to leave Pakistan on pretext of medical treatment. He has been charged with involvement in the murder of the former PM Benazir Bhutto in 2007.

 

[Kshatriya87]

I can't stop fuckin laughing.

And the reply by global times

The picture looks like the chhicken just shat out porkistan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Project Dharma]

Not only that he wanted to use nukes in 1999 but also in 2001.

`Mush mulled using nukes against India'

Dubai:
PTI

Pakistan's former military dictator General Pervez Musharraf has said that he mulled the use of nuclear weapons against India amid tensions following the 2001 terror attack on the Indian Parliament, but decided against doing so out of fear of retaliation, according to a media report.

Musharraf, 73, also recalled that he had many sleepless nights, asking himself whether he would or could deploy nuclear weapons, the Japanese daily `Mainichi Shimbun' said.

When tensions were high in 2001, there was a “danger when (the) nuclear threshold could have been crossed,“ the paper quoted Musharraf as saying. At the time, Musharraf had publicly said that he would not rule out the possibility of using nuclear weapons.

Musharraf also said, however, that at the time, neither India nor Pakistan had nuclear warheads on their missiles, so it would have taken one to two days to make them launch-ready . Asked whether he had ordered that missiles be equipped with nuclear warheads and put into firing position, he said, “We didn't do that and we don't think India also did that, thank God“ pointing, perhaps, to a fear of retaliation, the paper reported.

The two countries subsequently avoided an all-out clash and tensions subsided. The then army chief Musharraf ousted the then PM Nawaz Sharif in a coup in October 1999. The army general served as president from 2001 to 2008. Musharraf has been living in Dubai since last year when he was allowed to leave Pakistan on pretext of medical treatment. He has been charged with involvement in the murder of the former PM Benazir Bhutto in 2007.

I read that earlier and thought it was clickbait, by the phrase "use nukes", he seems to be talking about getting them in a launch ready configuration, not actually launching them on India.

 

[Mikesingh]

`Border issue shows lack of strategic trust on Indian side'

In the first official meeting between top Indian and Chinese officials since the Doklam stand-off became public, national security adviser Ajit Doval met state councillor Yang Jiechi here on Thursday , offering the possibility of serious diplomatic efforts to deescalate the confrontation.
Yang, who as China's state councillor overseeing foreign affairs occupies a powerful position in the state council, is the Chinese nominee in the IndiaChina special representative-level dialogue with Doval. An influential post, the state councillor is a member of the council.

Indications of how the bilateral meeting went could be gleaned by the commentary released by the official Xinhua news agency which sent out a conciliatory signal before Doval is expected to meet Chinese president Xi Jinping on Friday .It spoke of the need to enhance mutual trust as the two countries are “not born rivals“.

The comments made a strong plea to avoid the possibility of a war. “Most economies, including those in the West, will find themselves negatively affected by an India-China war in a globalised and intertwined world today ,“ it said. In Delhi, the Indian government reminded China of the agreements on peace and tranquility that go back to 1993. Yang also held separate meetings with security officials of three other countries on the sidelines of a security dialogue of BRICS nations comprising Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa. He discussed issues concerning bilateral relations, international and regional issues and multilateral affairs with the visiting security officials, the official Xinhua news agency said.

The remarks are a contrast to the hectoring tone in the comments published in publications like Global Times that are seen to reflect the views of the government. China's offi cial spokespersons have accused India of trespassing into Chinese territory , ignoring India's protests that the face off near the Sikkim-Tibet-Bhutan trijunction has been caused by unilateral attempts by China to alter the ground position.

There are signs that the two neighbours might be able to scale down tensions that have spiked due to the military muscle flexing over China's bid to build a road through a plateau in Bhutanese territory .

This is the first time in weeks that the official media ran a commentary without demanding withdrawal of Indian troops from the disputed Doklam region. China has so far been insisting that troop withdrawal is a pre-condition to a “meaningful dialogue“.

Doval reached Beijing on Thursday ahead of his planned meet ings with Chi nese presi dent Xi Jinp ing and State Counsellor Yang Jiechi on Friday .“The recent border issue between the two countries shows a lack of strategic trust on the Indian side,“ Xinhua said.

It is not China but a set of problems common to all developing countries like corruption, a lack of quality education and healthcare is holding back India. “India must under stand that China wishes what's good for the Indian people and would love to see a strong India standing shoulder by shoulder with China,“ Xinhua, which reflects the government's thinking said giving an emotional touch to the vexed relationship.

Doval's formal purpose of visiting Beijing is to attend a security dialogue of BRICS nations, he is expected to discuss the border standoff with Chinese leaders in separate meetings. Chinese foreign ministry has said that bilateral meetings are usually held during BRICS meetings and indirectly confirmed meetings on the border issue with Doval. “Instead of being rivals, India and China have much more common ground, common interests and common aspirations.Both as developing countries, the two need to work together on important issues like fighting climate change, protectionism and financial privileges of Washington,“ Xinhua said.

It said, “Hopefully, wisdom will guide the two countries to common prosperity . There is more than enough room for them to co-exist and thrive.Both China and India need to enhance communication and nurture trust between them, by recognizing they are not born rivals and that harboring ill will against each other is dangerous,“ Xinhua added.

http://epaperbeta.timesofindia.com/...ows-lack-of-strategic-trust-on-28072017012022

It seems the Chinese have cooled down a bit after the vitriol spewed out by their official media. Their strategy of applying pressure on India seems to have backfired spectacularly. They must have realized that we aren't pushovers like a Burkina Faso, but the third largest economy with the fourth largest army in the world!