LOC, LAC & IB skirmishs

[Mikesingh]

Now chinkies and piggies are having official joint patrols in POK. @Bornubus[/USER@]hammer head

This is basically for the security of the CPEC running through POK and GB.

 

[Screambowl]

PLA heliborne force is incapable of capturing and holding on to Tawang or Itanagar independently and indefinately.

can't comment on Itanagar but in Tawang if they hold the heights then it will be tough to recover the territory. As they can hold incoming Indian strikes for days.

 

[Mikesingh]

can't comment on Itanagar but in Tawang if they hold the heights then it will be tough to recover the territory. As they can hold incoming Indian strikes for days.

Nope they can't! Not a chance in hell!

Heliborne troops don't have the wherewithal to fight beyond a max of three days. They have little or no arty support, no resupply and would thus soon run out of ammo, food and water. These heliborne troops can carry just about three days of supplies. So they may put up a fight for a couple of days before they are destroyed by own forces.

Do read my previous post on this thread on the conduct of helliborne ops. The helliborne troops either need to be extracted after completion of ops or linked-up with ground forces within 48 to 72 hours or else they're dead as dodos!

 

[Bornubus]

can't comment on Itanagar but in Tawang if they hold the heights then it will be tough to recover the territory. As they can hold incoming Indian strikes for days.

When Indian army retreated haphazardly in 1962 leaving all their rations and supplies behind. Combat engineers were send to destroy our own supplies so that Chinese don't use it for themselves.

 

[Bornubus]

It's normal

Not this time. Can't say more about it here


================

 

[tharun]

When Indian army retreated haphazardly in 1962 leaving all their rations and supplies behind. Combat engineers were send to destroy our own supplies so that Chinese don't use it for themselves.

So from today we need to prime our own bases so that enemy can't use it and no need to send engineers to destroy.

 

[Bornubus]

So from today we need to prime our own bases so that enemy can't use it and no need to send engineers to destroy.

1962 taught many lessons to Army. Infact all the major wars and operations.

 

[tharun]

can't comment on Itanagar but in Tawang if they hold the heights then it will be tough to recover the territory. As they can hold incoming Indian strikes for days.

I think no,look at the map there is only one road from tibet connecting tawang. If we can take it by artillery there road connectivity is dusted and they need to rely only on the air drops.
If chinese thinks that they hold tawang just like american airborne did in battle of bulge...then i will laugh to death.
Tawang is 50km from the chinese border with lots of blind curves.

 

[Compersion]

can't comment on Itanagar but in Tawang if they hold the heights then it will be tough to recover the territory. As they can hold incoming Indian strikes for days.

Reminds me of the 1965 when we went to Lahore (only tactical reference).

 

[Compersion]

1962 taught many lessons to Army. Infact all the major wars and operations.

It was a watershed moment.

At heart of PRC is the sense we get them and will get them into trouble.

North Korea i am sure they blame it on us - not only because of our 98 nuke tests but much more and much earlier ( ) but consent and consensus is permission is sanction is endorsement. It all happened under PRC.

 

[Compersion]

Pakistan is not a small chick. Please dont dis-respect Pakistan.

It is like the Egg and Chicken story which came first. Pakistan will tell PRC that it came first and because of Pakis they are full and healthy.

Pakistan also knows how to bite others. Forget India - many other examples.

The only thing that is right about the picture above is Pakistan mouth is pointing right up the PRC ...

is it absolutely madness PRC is engaging Pakistan. what is pakistan really doing ...

Pakistan also needs to explain to PRC why it entered into Indus Water treaty in 1960. what was intent of Pakistan. What happened after that ... that is what we are and where we are.

Have PRC and Pakistan never had any issues ...

" In 1959 Pakistan became concerned that Chinese maps showed areas of Pakistan in China. In 1961 Ayub Khan sent a formal Note to China, there was no reply. "

And if the USA really wanted a stable PRC. They would not take it otherwise by seeing Philippines, Japan, South Korea, North Korea, Australia, and others being to make it look like ... not good at all.

 

[Filtercoffee]

This is basically for the security of the CPEC running through POK and GB.

Who's is going to survive 'Pakistan' at the rate it is being projected?

 

[lcafanboy]

India's Uncompromising Stand Against China in the Himalayas Is Backed Up With Hard Power
India’s military capabilities at the Himalayas put it in a position to bargain with China.


By Nitin A. Gokhale
July 31, 2017

India’s National Security Adviser Ajit Doval is back from Beijing after attending the BRICS national security advisers’ conclave and meeting his Chinese counterpart, Yang Jiechi, but there is no sign yet of the standoff between Indian and Chinese troops at the Dolam (Doklam) plateau ending, almost two months after it began. Both sides have chosen not to comment on outcomes, if any, from the talks that Doval held in Beijing, indicating perhaps that a mutually satisfactory solution still eludes them. Or maybe, Beijing and New Delhi want to consult Bhutan, the third party in this unusual spat, before proceeding further.

Whatever the reason for the silence, the world is surprised at the turn of events since late-May when the border spat began at a point where the boundaries of India-China and Bhutan meet. For one, the vehemence displayed by Chinese commentators was out of the ordinary and so was the aggressive tone of official statements made by government spokespersons in Beijing, accusing India of trespassing into Chinese territory. More unusually however, the calm assurance and panache with which New Delhi has handled the crisis so far points to a far more confident India, a point that would be noticed and studied across important world capitals.

What then is the secret behind New Delhi’s polite yet firm stand?

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Several factors ranging from India’s better military posture along the contested border to improved economic heft can be cited for the new approach. However, the biggest reason for India to stand up to China ironically is the blatant attempt by President Xi Jinping to force a China-centric order in Asia, a proposition that no government in New Delhi can agree to under any circumstances. Under Narendra Modi, politically the strongest Prime Minister in India for three decades, accepting China’s hegemony was out of the question, given his muscular national security policies. Very early in his tenure Modi had decided to depart from convention on dealing with China. He broke a long standing taboo of not inviting representatives of the Tibetan government-in-exile and that of Taiwan to official functions, lest Beijing feel offended. The Prime Minister of the Tibetan Government-in-exile and Taiwan’s trade representative were among the select invitees to Modi’s oath taking ceremony in the summer of 2014, setting the tone for a more robust policy towards China.

A border standoff in Ladakh in September 2014—coinciding with President Xi Jinping’s maiden visit to India—witnessed a rare display of India’s new approach of not succumbing to Chinese bullying. After 1,000 Chinese troops intruded into Chumar, a remote border outpost in South-east Ladakh, New Delhi rapidly built up a 9,000-strong force in two days, forcing the PLA to back off. Another similar face-off at Yangtse in Arunachal Pradesh in 2015 with the same result further demonstrated India’s resolve.

That resolve is being backed up with an improved military posture. Building on the modest beginning made under the previous government to improve infrastructure all along the northern frontier, the current government is quietly building capabilities to counter China militarily. Consider this:

• India’s indigenously developed missiles—Agni, Akash, and Brahmos—are either ready for induction or already inducted into the armed forces, providing potent weapons for use against China.
• The development of a family of K-Series of submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBM)—although mostly shrouded in secrecy—is in a fairly advanced stage, keeping India on track to complete its nuclear triad.
• After initial reservation against the proposed Mountain Strike Corps (sanctioned by the previous government), the Modi government has revived its support for the project. Two Mountain Divisions meant for the Strike Corps are about to complete their raising in Northern and Eastern Commands. More air assets are planned for Strike Corps. The eventual aim is to build flexibility in its deployment and allow swift switching of forces from one theatre to another.
• The formation of a Special Forces Division and a cyber and space agency, as prelude to formation of separate tri-services Special Forces, Cyber and Space Commands, has commenced in recent months.

Moreover, Ladakh, the scene of two prominent standoffs in 2013 and 2014, now has an additional infantry brigade stationed permanently in the area while more elements of Northern Command’s reserve division—39—now exercise regularly in the high altitude desert. From the initial induction of a regiment of T-72 tanks done in 2013, India now plans to augment its armor strength to a full-fledged tank brigade in Ladakh.

In the East, the 56 and 71 Mountain Divisions, raised from 2009 onwards, are now firmly placed and deployed on the ground, making more troops available to defense planners.

The Air Force has also staged forward its assets both in the North and the East by deploying the Sukhoi-30 planes at bases close to the Chinese border. Completion of the project to revamp eight Advanced Landing Grounds (ALGs) in Arunachal Pradesh will mean improved connectivity and increased capacity to insert troops in the high altitude areas. The reported deployment of Brahmos Missile regiments along the northern frontiers in the past couple of years means India now has additional offensive capability.

Strategically important roads high in the Himalayas, planned almost a decade ago, are now getting a more focussed attention with more tunnels at high altitude passes being built to allow all-weather traffic.

The Indian Navy, the smallest of the three armed forces, is in the midst of an unprecedented expansion, although the strength of its conventional submarine fleet remains a matter of concern.

There are of course many weaknesses in India’s higher defense management, its procurement systems, and pace of military modernization. Military leaders have spoken about a high degree of obsolescence across the three forces as a result of years of neglect and apathy in military modernization. The Modi government will have to redouble its efforts to overcome the shortages and restructure the management system of the military expeditiously to meet mounting challenges from China and Pakistan.

Overall, however, India’s military strength is right now adequate to hold off any Chinese adventurism across the Himalayas, but not strong enough for an offensive posture. Military analysts however argue that a stronger China will think twice before initiating any conflict with India since Indian soldiers are better trained and battle hardened compared to the PLA troops. That said, neither side will gain anything substantial in a possible armed conflict. That perhaps is the only saving grace in the troubled relationship between India and China at the moment.

http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/indi...n-the-himalayas-is-backed-up-with-hard-power/

 

[Screambowl]

Heliborne troops don't have the wherewithal to fight beyond a max of three days. They have little or no arty support, no resupply and would thus soon run out of ammo, food and water. These heliborne troops can carry just about three days of supplies.

I am no expert but Why do you think they will only carry three days of supply? It is also possible that extra supplied is aerial dropped along with them.Even a 10 days of supply will keep Indian troops engaged for 20 days. Due to height advantage.

Indian army did the same in 84 during op Meghdoot.

 

[Screambowl]

Tawang is 50km from the chinese border with lots of blind curves.

I was talking about the Tawang district. Obviously they cannot reach the proper town but they can hold on heights on Indian territory near Indo Chinese border.

Vigilance is the only solution. Not this time India will be unaware of any troop presence.

 

[indiatester]

She has made it clear now.

https://www.voanews.com/a/china-pre...37.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

China's President Says Country Will 'Never Swallow Bitter Fruit' of Surrendering Territory
August 01, 2017 5:35 AM

• Richard Green

Chinese President Xi Jinping speaks during a ceremony to commemorate the 90th anniversary of the founding of the People's Liberation Army at the Great Hall of the People in Beijing, Aug. 1, 2017.

Chinese President Xi Jinping marked the 90th anniversary of the founding of the military arm of the ruling Communist Party with a declaration that his country will never surrender any of its territory to outside forces.

“We will never allow any people, organization, or political party to split any part of Chinese territory out of the country at any time, in any form,” Xi vowed in a speech Tuesday to an audience of Communist Party officials and high-ranking officers of the People's Liberation Army at the Great Hall of the People in Beijing.

“No one should expect us to swallow the bitter fruit that is harmful to our sovereignty, security or development interests,” Xi added.

China is involved in numerous territorial disputes beyond its borders, especially throughout the South China Sea, where it has transformed several artificial islands and reefs into military installations, ignoring competing claims from its Asia-Pacific neighbors. Beijing also claims self-ruled Taiwan as part of its territory, and has threatened to use force to bring it under its control.

A Chinese child salutes with both hands in front of the emblem of the People's Liberation Army or PLA during an exhibition to mark the 90th anniversary of the founding of the PLA at the military museum in Beijing, China, Aug. 1, 2017.
In addition, China is currently engaged in tense a standoff with India over a Chinese road-building project in the eastern Himalayas in an area claimed by both Beijing and Bhutan — a close ally of India.

China's People Liberation Army is in the midst of an ambitious modernization program under Xi's leadership, adding new technology and aircraft carriers to put it on par with the United States. Xi presided over a large military parade Sunday at the remote Zhurihe training base in China's Inner Mongolia region.

 

[Tshering22]

I understand that the global times is supporting its government but the language that they are using is extremely immature.

 

[HindaviSwarajya]

This is probably the highet level of threat till now. Lets see we need to wait for a month. I personally think nothing will happen even skirmish.

 

[Tshering22]

So now ching chong chinese have given Doka lam a ching chong name, Donglang lol

Yes.

And if asked, they will whip out a 10,000 year old map and justify it saying that their heavens-knows-who emperor conquered it.

 

[Filtercoffee]

This is probably the highet level of threat till now. Lets see we need to wait for a month. I personally think nothing will happen even skirmish.

They know the entire 7th fleet will land up at their back door; nothing will happen, only crying and psyop trials.