LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars

https://www.business-standard.com/external-affairs-defence-security/news/hal-s-nashik-assembly-line-boosts-tejas-production-capacity-to-24-aircraft-124052801576_1.html

 

[MirageBlue]

Ya'll Nibbiars

https://www.business-standard.com/external-affairs-defence-security/news/hal-s-nashik-assembly-line-boosts-tejas-production-capacity-to-24-aircraft-124052801576_1.html

That is a paid article.

Here is the free version -

Tejas Part 2: HAL’s Nashik assembly line boosts Tejas production capacity to 24 aircraft annually

www.ajaishukla.com

 

[MirageBlue]

Ya'll Nibbiars

https://www.business-standard.com/external-affairs-defence-security/news/hal-s-nashik-assembly-line-boosts-tejas-production-capacity-to-24-aircraft-124052801576_1.html

That is a paid article.

Here is the free version -

Tejas Part 2: HAL’s Nashik assembly line boosts Tejas production capacity to 24 aircraft annually

www.ajaishukla.com

Another poorly framed article by Ajai Shukla.

For e.g. he calls the the additional 97 Tejas Mk1A order as "additional pressure" on HAL. Whereas that is exactly what HAL and it's suppliers wanted! Without Su-30MKI production, their Nashik line was mostly idle, except for MRO work and was not being utilized to the extent that it should've been.

Companies want to make money, not wilt under pressure from extra orders, the way that he puts it. Even Dassault is sunk under a massive backlog and grappling with how on earth to increase production to be able to deliver the 200+ Rafales that it has to build and deliver to existing customers. Still, does Dassault want more Rafale sales? Of course!

The foolishness to even suggest that HAL may fail at reaching the targeted production numbers and the fallback option of going to "global OEMs" as if they could miraculously produce the shortfall numbers and supply it to the IAF.

Then he suddenly brings up the number of 220..when with 83+97, the number of Tejas Mk1A new builds is 180. The 40 Tejas Mk1s are almost done with just 3 remaining to be delivered.

 

[MirageBlue]

Third part of the Tejas series by Ajai Shukla. He gets the MTOW wrong- puts it as 16,500 kg when it is 17,500 kg MTOW.

Another lazy ass article. Doesn't mention that the Tejas Mk1A empty weight has been reduced, so it's payload has now gone up from 3,500 kg for the Tejas Mk1 to 4,000 kg for the Tejas Mk1A.

Part 3: The Tejas Mark 2: Incremental development

www.ajaishukla.com

“The fighter’s Preliminary Design Review (PDR) was completed in December 2023 and the design has been frozen.

I am getting fed up with this nonsense. The PDR was completed long ago. The CDR itself was completed before it got the AoN from the CCS.

Tejas Mk2's CDR itself was completed in November 2021!

Here is the Janes article that confirms that.

Update: India sanctions Tejas Mk 2 fighter project

The Indian government has officially approved the Tejas Mk 2 fighter aircraft. The project has been sanctioned with INR66.17 billion (USD827 million) in funding.

www.janes.com

 

[DumbPilot]

Third part of the Tejas series by Ajai Shukla. He gets the MTOW wrong- puts it as 16,500 kg when it is 17,500 kg MTOW.

Another lazy ass article. Doesn't mention that the Tejas Mk1A empty weight has been reduced, so it's payload has now gone up from 3,500 kg for the Tejas Mk1 to 4,000 kg for the Tejas Mk1A.

Part 3: The Tejas Mark 2: Incremental development

www.ajaishukla.com

I am getting fed up with this nonsense. The PDR was completed long ago. The CDR itself was completed before it got the AoN from the CCS.

Tejas Mk2's CDR itself was completed in November 2021!

Here is the Janes article that confirms that.

Update: India sanctions Tejas Mk 2 fighter project

The Indian government has officially approved the Tejas Mk 2 fighter aircraft. The project has been sanctioned with INR66.17 billion (USD827 million) in funding.

www.janes.com

Incompetence on his end, I suppose

 

[MirageBlue]

x.com

x.com

 

[Bleh]

Third part of the Tejas series by Ajai Shukla. He gets the MTOW wrong- puts it as 16,500 kg when it is 17,500 kg MTOW.

MTIOW itna kab ho gya?!

 

[MirageBlue]

MTIOW itna kab ho gya?!

It was initially set at 16,500 kg but increased to 17,500 kg in the final iteration.

 

[NutCracker]

x.com

x.com

Replace X in URL with twitter

 

[Bleh]

It was initially set at 16,500 kg but increased to 17,500 kg in the final iteration.

13.5 ton tha na, increased to 14.x tons. Recheck plz

 

[NutCracker]

13.5 ton tha na, increased to 14.x tons. Recheck plz

mk2 ki baat ho rahi hai.

 

[MirageBlue]

13.5 ton tha na, increased to 14.x tons. Recheck plz

I was referring to the Tejas Mk2.

Tejas Mk1A MTOW remains the same as Tejas Mk1. No change in landing gear, hence no change in MTOW.

But it's payload has gone up by 500 kg to 4000 kg, since the empty weight has dropped by 500 kg.

 

[darshan978]

I was referring to the Tejas Mk2.

Tejas Mk1A MTOW remains the same as Tejas Mk1. No change in landing gear, hence no change in MTOW.

But it's payload has gone up by 500 kg to 4000 kg, since the empty weight has dropped by 500 kg.

source? could not find the reference of reduction in weight.

 

[abingdonboy]

That is a paid article.

Here is the free version -

Tejas Part 2: HAL’s Nashik assembly line boosts Tejas production capacity to 24 aircraft annually

www.ajaishukla.com

Another poorly framed article by Ajai Shukla.

For e.g. he calls the the additional 97 Tejas Mk1A order as "additional pressure" on HAL. Whereas that is exactly what HAL and it's suppliers wanted! Without Su-30MKI production, their Nashik line was mostly idle, except for MRO work and was not being utilized to the extent that it should've been.

Companies want to make money, not wilt under pressure from extra orders, the way that he puts it. Even Dassault is sunk under a massive backlog and grappling with how on earth to increase production to be able to deliver the 200+ Rafales that it has to build and deliver to existing customers. Still, does Dassault want more Rafale sales? Of course!

The foolishness to even suggest that HAL may fail at reaching the targeted production numbers and the fallback option of going to "global OEMs" as if they could miraculously produce the shortfall numbers and supply it to the IAF.

Then he suddenly brings up the number of 220..when with 83+97, the number of Tejas Mk1A new builds is 180. The 40 Tejas Mk1s are almost done with just 3 remaining to be delivered.

There also is no contract for the additional 97 so order commitments remain 83

That said I’ve heard HAL talking about 16/24 production rate for years and they’ve already slipped on the MK1A’s delivery schedule (first airframe has not been delivered, only flown). They are suddenly talking a big talk and have lots of plans about 1/2/3 production lines and are yet to meet a single delivery target for the LCA in its history. Yes there are plenty of reasons for that but here in 2024 having had their largest ever upfront order 3 years ago they need to actually do the thing instead of all the hot air

 

[abingdonboy]

You don't think that the virtual monopoly enjoyed by HAL has adversely affected other players entering the fray?

About the proposed SPV, what virtue is there in creating a company where the bureaucracies of HAL/ADA/DRDO are all brought together in one nightmare entity to be joined by a private company as a junior partner? Unsurprisingly no commercial company has been tempted to invest in such a misconceived endeavour. No doubt HAL will be able to build AMCA.

With respect to creating a competitive assembly industry, why doesn't GOI take a strategic decision to do so? It could start by transferring assembly of some Tejas Mk1A to a different company (with the help of HAL). If there were 2 companies able to assemble fighters, they could bid for the contract to assemble AMCA. If the state-owned bidder is more competitive, it gets the deal. If the private company bidder is more competitive, it gets the deal.

Outside of the US and to an extent Russia what country on earth has more than 1 fast jet manufacturer? France=Dassualt, Korea=KAI, Turkey=TAI etc

I’m a for competition and against monopolies but forcing competition for the sake of it is a fool’s errand. There’s not many companies in the world with even 1/10th of the expertise and capacity as HAL- as I’ve pointed above they definitely need to deliver and have few excuses not to but let’s not pretend that what they do (delivery of high end high performance aerospace machines ) is not incredibly niche and not something some other company private or not is just going to turn their hand to one day and immediately show results.

Look at ALH production to see what they are capable of long term if given stability in orders and specs

I’ve always said HAL should be be completely divested by the Indian government- perhaps maintaining a strategic investment of 35-45% and that all contracts placed should have penalties and legally binding delivery schedules on top of the fact that they’d already be more accountable if majority shareholder owned. This will also give them even more scope to invest their capital freely and explore a myriad of projects entirely free from official GoI sanction- to an extent they have been going about this already in recent years anyway but they’ll be able to take even bigger ‘risks’

 

[thebakofbakchod]

Outside of the US and to an extent Russia what country on earth has more than 1 fast jet manufacturer? France=Dassualt, Korea=KAI, Turkey=TAI etc

I’m a for competition and against monopolies but forcing competition for the sake of it is a fool’s errand. There’s not many companies in the world with even 1/10th of the expertise and capacity as HAL- as I’ve pointed above they definitely need to deliver and have few excuses not to but let’s not pretend that what they do (delivery of high end high performance aerospace machines ) is not incredibly niche and not something some other company private or not is just going to turn their hand to one day and immediately show results.

Look at ALH production to see what they are capable of long term if given stability in orders and specs

I’ve always said HAL should be be completely divested by the Indian government- perhaps maintaining a strategic investment of 35-45% and that all contracts placed should have penalties and legally binding delivery schedules on top of the fact that they’d already be more accountable if majority shareholder owned. This will also give them even more scope to invest their capital freely and explore a myriad of projects entirely free from official GoI sanction- to an extent they have been going about this already in recent years anyway but they’ll be able to take even bigger ‘risks’

HAL should never be divested from the government. But it needs to be given special autonomy with proper checks and accountability for top management who need to be fired or demoted if they do not deliver certain hard deadlines. They also need to be given more venue to raise capital for capex

 

[abingdonboy]

HAL should never be divested from the government. But it needs to be given special autonomy with proper checks and accountability for top management who need to be fired or demoted if they do not deliver certain hard deadlines. They also need to be given more venue to raise capital for capex

If it’s going to compete against global OEMs (big if) it needs to be entirely separate from govt control, the GoI should remain the largest single shareholder of course and there should be strict rules to keep the likes of the Chinese from buying in

It needs to run as an autonomous entity pursuing their own interests and not an arms length GoI concern reliant on the cumbersome babudom

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars

 

[MirageBlue]

source? could not find the reference of reduction in weight.

Source for reduction in weight is HAL CMD Anathkrishnan. He stated that Tejas Mk1 max payload is 3500 kg, while Tejas Mk1A max payload is now 4000 kg, i.e. 500 more payload.

That is not possible with the same engine, unless the empty weight is reduced by at least 500 kg.

 

[Spitfire9]

Source for reduction in weight is HAL CMD Anathkrishnan. He stated that Tejas Mk1 max payload is 3500 kg, while Tejas Mk1A max payload is now 4000 kg, i.e. 500 more payload.

That is not possible with the same engine, unless the empty weight is reduced by at least 500 kg.

I recall that Tejas Mk1 carried a lot of ballast in its nose. Has Mk1A had the dead weight of ballast in the aircraft dramatically reduced?