LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Blademaster]

we need to order 248 more MKI airframes and bring the number to 5`0 which will give us 20 squadrons with 24 airplanes per squadron and 40 airframes stored as replacement fighters to replace losses during peacetime and 100 airframe kits to replace wartime losses. I firmly believe that the upgraded MKIs can take up 80% of the Rafale f4's capabilities and the Tejas MK2 can take up the rest.

And we need to have 1000 Mk2s and 272 AMCAs. We should also develop the ORCA plane to replace the overpriced Rafale and eventually replace the MKIs.

 

[AnantS]

I hope India securely quickly all the engines in bulk that shall be required for the order's lifetime. US is going to play spoilsport in coming years. Better be prepared in advance notwithstanding lure of upcoming GE factory. I dont know but i feel GE factory will follow DTTI pattern. Nothing of substance shall be shared even if promised.

 

[Blademaster]

I hope India securely quickly all the engines in bulk that shall be required for the order's lifetime. US is going to play spoilsport in coming years. Better be prepared in advance notwithstanding lure of upcoming GE factory. I dont know but i feel GE factory will follow DTTI pattern. Nothing of substance shall be shared even if promised.

This whole GE thing is designed to delay the Kaveri program indefinitely and keep Indians at the mercy of US's whims. Indian bureaucrats need to stop being selfish and think of the larger picture and be patriotic for once and authorize whatever it takes to produce Kaveri engines that can power our planes to our great satisfaction.

 

[AnantS]

This whole GE thing is designed to delay the Kaveri program indefinitely and keep Indians at the mercy of US's whims. Indian bureaucrats need to stop being selfish and think of the larger picture and be patriotic for once and authorize whatever it takes to produce Kaveri engines that can power our planes to our great satisfaction.

Kaveri is a non starter in its current thrust configuration. Maybe proposed LIFT by HAL shall be supporting Kaveri. We need to have FTB's and invest in SNECMA - GTRE alternative line as well as GTRE heavily.

 

[Blood+]

https://www.financialexpress.com/business/defence-indian-air-force-advances-su-30-mki-upgrade-with-indigenous-technologies-and-strategic-partnerships-3322038/

Even su-30mki are being upgraded, everything except frame and engine.

Thats 200+ aircrafts that will stay in service for a long time.

I suspect Tejas will get a lot more orders
and SU30 mki will be upgraded in greater numbers.

Engine upgrade should have been included in the package as well.

 

[NutCracker]

Engine upgrade should have been included in the package as well.

Looking at the expenditure, I think airframe might go through complete overhaul , more strengthened airframe to easily carry 3 normal Brahmos variant.

 

[Blademaster]

Kaveri is a non starter in its current thrust configuration. Maybe proposed LIFT by HAL shall be supporting Kaveri. We need to have FTB's and invest in SNECMA - GTRE alternative line as well as GTRE heavily.

It was a non start in its current thrust configuration because they stopped supporting and funding it for the last 10 years!!! Imagine the progress we could have made if GoI had continued to keep supporting the Kaveri program come hell or high water!!

 

[Blademaster]

@Delta Squad, @Gyyan and @Killbot,

Laugh all you want but when IAF is facing over a couple thousand PLAAF and PAF jets mass produced by China on two fronts, you won't be laughing but cursing at yourselves for not willing to take the hard moves to produce the numbers I talked about.

 

[AnantS]

It was a non start in its current thrust configuration because they stopped supporting and funding it for the last 10 years!!! Imagine the progress we could have made if GoI had continued to keep supporting the Kaveri program come hell or high water!!

Blade .. LCA mission requirements increased consequently weight hence Kaveri became unsuitable(T/W ratio would be less than 1). Also Kaveri should always have been proofed on twin engine configuration atleast. - if they could not get FTB. I am not sure why a Mig 29 was not adapted for such purpose. Where one Nozzle could have housed RD 33 and other Kaveri with suitable adapter to fit in engine housing of Mig 29. GTRE/ADA had such plans - but dont know what happened to it.

 

[NutCracker]

@Delta Squad, @Gyyan and @Killbot,

Laugh all you want but when IAF is facing over a couple thousand PLAAF and PAF jets mass produced by China on two fronts, you won't be laughing but cursing at yourselves for not willing to take the hard moves to produce the numbers I talked about.

Even China hasn't produced 1000 J10C. Why do you want India to produce 1000 Mk2 ?

 

[johnj]

Engine upgrade should have been included in the package as well.

Too expensive, and cost exceeds the price a brand new jet, that's why IAF not considering engine upgrade
Only sensor and avionics upgrade.

 

[NutCracker]

Blade .. LCA mission requirements increased consequently weight hence Kaveri became unsuitable(T/W ratio would be less than 1). Also Kaveri should always have been proofed on twin engine configuration atleast. - if they could not get FTB. I am not sure why a Mig 29 was not adapted for such purpose. Where one Nozzle could have housed RD 33 and other Kaveri with suitable adapter to fit in engine housing of Mig 29. GTRE/ADA had such plans - but dont know what happened to it.

By the time next engine replacement cycle comes in 12-15 years for 36 FOC-MK1, I hope Kaveri's thrust is increased upto 85kN.

 

[johnj]

Blade .. LCA mission requirements increased consequently weight hence Kaveri became unsuitable(T/W ratio would be less than 1). Also Kaveri should always have been proofed on twin engine configuration atleast. - if they could not get FTB. I am not sure why a Mig 29 was not adapted for such purpose. Where one Nozzle could have housed RD 33 and other Kaveri with suitable adapter to fit in engine housing of Mig 29. GTRE/ADA had such plans - but dont know what happened to it.

RD 33 is less reliable, and increases chances of crashing

 

[Blademaster]

Even China hasn't produced 1000 J10C. Why do you want India to produce 1000 Mk2 ?

Because we need economy of scale and we are also facing PAF on another front. When you have 1000 you won't have them all operating but most of them will be operational and the rest would be undergoing maintenance and repair. If you have 1000, you will only have about 750-800 planes in working order and the rest are in maintenance and repair. And you have to consider wartime losses and peacetime operational losses.

Look at USAF. It produced over 2200 F-16s for its own use and lost about 650 jets throughout the years and had about 1253 jets left in 2007. Now it is down to 841 F-16 jets.

And besides China may not have 1000 J10C right now but you can bet your bottom ass that they will get there and well over 1000.

 

[johnj]

By the time next engine replacement cycle comes in 12-15 years for 36 FOC-MK1, I hope Kaveri's thrust is increased upto 85kN.

Considering the weight, Kaveri need to produce F414 thrust, around 95KN

 

[AnantS]

RD 33 is less reliable, and increases chances of crashing

Using Mig 29 as FTB is one of the cost effective Jugaad in lieu of full fledged test bed..

 

[Killbot]

@Delta Squad, @Gyyan and @Killbot,

Laugh all you want but when IAF is facing over a couple thousand PLAAF and PAF jets mass produced by China on two fronts, you won't be laughing but cursing at yourselves for not willing to take the hard moves to produce the numbers I talked about.

Even China doesn't have the money to buy and maintain a fleet like that. I'd like nothing better than a massive airforce, but we are where we are monetarily.

 

[johnj]

Using Mig 29 as FTB is one of the cost effective Jugaad in lieu of full fledged test bed..

And Fastest way to terminate Kaveri program
You need a 4/3 engine aircraft to test & certify a engine
Russian engines are less reliable compared to EU/US ones, a major reason why Russia not developed single engine jets using mig29 & su27 engines.

 

[AnantS]

And Fastest way to terminate Kaveri program
You need a 4/3 engine aircraft to test & certify a engine

If wishes were horses...

We all know what is required. But when you don't get what is required. You work with what you have in hand,....

 

[johnj]

If wishes were horses...

We all know what is required. But when you don't get what is required. You work with what you have in hand,....

Why not convert a AirIndia jet into a testbed ?? or a unmanned supersonic testbed ??