LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

Bleh

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They have tejas is dcs now?
Mod.. Being made based on @Kuntal's model.
LOL.
F35 is at best an aero show jet so far.
The main assets of USAF are : F22 and F15.
F15 old horse? This is why they decided to purchase some more ?
That's unfair to say. Israelis have used them in airspaces contested by Rusky SAMs... It's just too high-maintenance to be a workhorse & now US is planning 5th- gen jets to replace the legacy fighters.
 

FalconSlayers

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Ye kaise milta hai
आसमानी किताब सूरा नम्बर ४२०, आयात ७८६ पेज नम्बर ६९ को पढ़ के बम विस्फोट कर फटने से जन्नत में ७२ हूरों के साथ मुफ़्त में मिलता है।
 

Tactical Doge

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आसमानी किताब सूरा नम्बर ४२०, आयात ७८६ पेज नम्बर ६९ को पढ़ के बम विस्फोट कर फटने से जन्नत में ७२ हूरों के साथ मुफ़्त में मिलता है।
Screenshot_20201216-232923~2.png
 

mist_consecutive

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Su is our mistake in such a huge number to be honest... It's huge RCS is a disadvantage.

The only good thing is we can use it as a bomb truck , to launch brahmos , and as mini AWACS if we can get a AESA radar. Also huge missiles can be loaded in it to act against AWACS of enemy.

If we hadn't bought so many of these machines Rafale or Su 57 are much better replacement.

It all depends on the strategy IAF employ to use them later. We can definitely replace radar ew suite etc but engine will be russian .
Why RCS is a disadvantage? It's like saying a sword is useless because it cannot be hidden like a dagger inside your clothes.

Different platforms, different scenarios of use.

Half of Su30 should be replaced by Tejas Mk2 & Mk1A . They will cost 10 billion to upgrade now . They have too big RCS , maintenance cost . We should not operate 300 Su-30 , crazy number .... keep 150 for diversity , Replace 150 in next 15 years . Even cheaper Tejas MK1A can be used if Mk2 is costly. We don't need such heavy plane in such numbers .
Tejas is not Defensive Plane , Its best offensive plane of IAF fleet . It has highest precision target scores in recent exercises . One of the lowest RCS . Planes like Su30 are defensive planes They cant go anywhere near enemy without getting caught in Radars , Outdated tech . Tejas is better Than Mirage for Balakote like Operation .
Sorry pal, I have you call out your understanding of air warfare is nonexistent.

Let's understand few things about RCS, big plane, and most ridiculous of all, defensive and offensive plane.

Does RCS matter, when and when not ?
First understand low RCS does not mean practical invisibility. Low RCS means low visibility in X-band radars. Other bands (L-bands, used for early warning) can detect a stealth aircrafts to some degree, but it cannot pinpoint it.
Having low RCS does not hide infrared-signature. Modern EO systems can detect and lock-on (and fire missiles) jets over 50 kms.

So when is low RCS beneficial? If my enemy fires a radar-guided missile at me, I will have a higher chance of evading and spoofing the missile because seeker of X-band missile can't pinpoint my location.

Low RCS may be beneficial in sneaking in to an unsuspecting enemy not having adequate resources to detect me and may ignore the small occasional blip on the weather radar as flock of birds flying or a weather balloon.

Big plane is bad because it is more visible (both visually and in microwave spectrum) and more costly
A big jet means -
  • More weapons & payload (in BVR combat, the most important factor is to carry as much misslie as possible)
  • More endurance, that means more energy to outmanuever enemy, evade missile, and chase enemy running away cursing their smol jets for carrying only a litre of fuel.
  • Usually more and better sensor, including but not limited to a powerful radar that can detect the enemy far before they can detect you.
Sure, cost of flight hours and maintenance will be more, but the output you get will also be more.

A big RCS plane will be a defensive plane while a low RCS plane is offensive
:bplease:

This comes from your assumption that a low-RCS plane will be able to sneak-in and attack the enemy, and a high-RCS plane will be detected if they try to do so.

But why sneak-in when you can just stomp them ?

Okay, that may sound childish, but I will explain. Our limited perception of ground-attack tactics is shaped by limited offensive and skirmishes in the last two decades. Basically what happens is, to target some "high-value" target, stealth tactics are used to to sneak-in, attack and return quickly.

And that is only possible with countries with limited and outdated resources, (like with Syria), but unlikely with Pakistan, and never with China.

In full-scale warfare, you just don't go James Bond into enemy territory, you first conduct SEAD using heavy jamming and anti-radiation missiles. And who will be able to carry a big-jamming pod which can fry enemy-radars? A offensive jet in your definition ?

So, in a full-scale offensive, you need endurance, power, payload and vitality (ability to take a hit and still keep flying). You don't hide from enemy, enemy will know you are coming, and they will be afraid.

Su-30MKI is excellent platform in that regard.
 

Flying Dagger

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Why RCS is a disadvantage? It's like saying a sword is useless because it cannot be hidden like a dagger inside your clothes.

Different platforms, different scenarios of use.




Sorry pal, I have you call out your understanding of air warfare is nonexistent.

Let's understand few things about RCS, big plane, and most ridiculous of all, defensive and offensive plane.



First understand low RCS does not mean practical invisibility. Low RCS means low visibility in X-band radars. Other bands (L-bands, used for early warning) can detect a stealth aircrafts to some degree, but it cannot pinpoint it.
Having low RCS does not hide infrared-signature. Modern EO systems can detect and lock-on (and fire missiles) jets over 50 kms.

So when is low RCS beneficial? If my enemy fires a radar-guided missile at me, I will have a higher chance of evading and spoofing the missile because seeker of X-band missile can't pinpoint my location.

Low RCS may be beneficial in sneaking in to an unsuspecting enemy not having adequate resources to detect me and may ignore the small occasional blip on the weather radar as flock of birds flying or a weather balloon.



A big jet means -
  • More weapons & payload (in BVR combat, the most important factor is to carry as much misslie as possible)
  • More endurance, that means more energy to outmanuever enemy, evade missile, and chase enemy running away cursing their smol jets for carrying only a litre of fuel.
  • Usually more and better sensor, including but not limited to a powerful radar that can detect the enemy far before they can detect you.
Sure, cost of flight hours and maintenance will be more, but the output you get will also be more.


:bplease:

This comes from your assumption that a low-RCS plane will be able to sneak-in and attack the enemy, and a high-RCS plane will be detected if they try to do so.

But why sneak-in when you can just stomp them ?

Okay, that may sound childish, but I will explain. Our limited perception of ground-attack tactics is shaped by limited offensive and skirmishes in the last two decades. Basically what happens is, to target some "high-value" target, stealth tactics are used to to sneak-in, attack and return quickly.

And that is only possible with countries with limited and outdated resources, (like with Syria), but unlikely with Pakistan, and never with China.

In full-scale warfare, you just don't go James Bond into enemy territory, you first conduct SEAD using heavy jamming and anti-radiation missiles. And who will be able to carry a big-jamming pod which can fry enemy-radars? A offensive jet in your definition ?

So, in a full-scale offensive, you need endurance, power, payload and vitality (ability to take a hit and still keep flying). You don't hide from enemy, enemy will know you are coming, and they will be afraid.

Su-30MKI is excellent platform in that regard.

Because you don't need bulk of your airforce with huge RCS disadvantage all the time.

We can do the same role with Su 57 kind of fighter jet having lower RCS but if needed external points be utilised to carry more weapon loads.
 

Tang

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Because you don't need bulk of your airforce with huge RCS disadvantage all the time.

We can do the same role with Su 57 kind of fighter jet having lower RCS but if needed external points be utilised to carry more weapon loads.
Su57 is a full generation ahead of current Su30MKI
Further Su57 is not operational
And lastly we made the Su30 deal in 1999
 

mist_consecutive

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Because you don't need bulk of your airforce with huge RCS disadvantage all the time.

We can do the same role with Su 57 kind of fighter jet having lower RCS but if needed external points be utilised to carry more weapon loads.
What is RCS disadvantage? Who has an RCS advantage, let me hear?

Su-57, I won't trust. India pulled back from the project for a reason. It is not at all stealthy, cost does not justify the added advantage, and probably is a bigger blunder than F-35.

Better to buy Rafale instead, and the ideal scenario will be replacing half of our Su-30MKIs with either Rafale or Tejas Mk2.
 

Flying Dagger

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What is RCS disadvantage? Who has an RCS advantage, let me hear?

Su-57, I won't trust. India pulled back from the project for a reason. It is not at all stealthy, cost does not justify the added advantage, and probably is a bigger blunder than F-35.

Better to buy Rafale instead, and the ideal scenario will be replacing half of our Su-30MKIs with either Rafale or Tejas Mk2.
Don't hibernate I simply told you that it isn't necessary for a fighter jet to have huge RCS to be big and able to carry more weapons. Even Su 35 have lesser RCS.

What is RCS disadvantage ?

Well there is none that's why no one in aircraft industry bother abt having low RCS. Happy there ?
 

omaebakabaka

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Tejas RCS will be on much lower side in A2A configuration with 2 BVR+2CCM it will still have much lower RCS than Sukhoi.
This whole RCS nonsense is getting too much....for gods sake F-4's are still in service and we just used 21 to take out f-16. There is probability to things and tactics and strategy to a battle to counteract. 4th gen Airforces are not getting obsolete anytime soon.
 

Ghost hale

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This whole RCS nonsense is getting too much....for gods sake F-4's are still in service and we just used 21 to take out f-16. There is probability to things and tactics and strategy to a battle to counteract. 4th gen Airforces are not getting obsolete anytime soon.
True but u know that RCS..... 👹
Seriously this RCS discussion is getting ridiculous. And doesn't anyone have heard words like Jammers, EW suite, AWACS etc. Not every strategy or Jet needs low RCS. 2 Big dots signifying MKIs in radars were enough to attract full package shooting aimless AMRAAM shots and running away dropping bombs (*ALL SEQUENCES MENTIONED ARE FICTIONAL AND ANY SIMILARITY WILL JUST BE CONSIDERED CO-INCIDENCE*).
Low RCS is for stealth strategy more so. In highly contested airspace its the famous statement "Khulla Khel Farukhabadi".
So its better to check complete package then just focusing on single aspect.
 
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