LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Armand2REP]

Those RFIs are making rounds for 15 years. I think you have been here long enough to know that.
Regardless if PM Modi is interested in buying 100 plus MRCA from outside he would have signed the deal years ago. Instead, he just signed for a piecemeal purchase of 36 Rafale. Why? Maybe to save Indo-french relations. Once he gets re-elected most probably he will purchase addition 36 Rafale to bring meaning to IAF's Rafale fleet. beyond this every bit of money will be diverted towards MWF and AMCA.



It is COST OF STRATEGIC INDEPENDENCE, not ultimate waste.

The ULTIMATE WASTE of MONEY, however, is paying on compulsion USD ~45 Million for french upgrade kit per Mirage 2000--which did not even included engine-- when an Isreali upgrade kit was being offered at half the price.

That is why no cost is a greater cost for Strategic Independence.

As for the engine. M88 core without full ToT of the hot section at an exorbitant cost is not much better than buying GE-414 without any ToT. That is why GTRE-SNECMA deal is going nowhere.

Modi will buy 114 Rafale for the IAF and 57 Rafale for the IN... if BJP wins. If Cong wins France will be blacklisted like Italy.

If you had bought Israeli IFF you would have even more frat incidents. It is much safer to avoid Israeli equipment unless you want it to shoot down all of your aircraft.

If you bought a re-cored Kaveri you would make everything but the hot section. Now you make none of GE.

 

[ersakthivel]

Modi will buy 114 Rafale for the IAF and 57 Rafale for the IN... if BJP wins. If Cong wins France will be blacklisted like Italy.

If you had bought Israeli IFF you would have even more frat incidents. It is much safer to avoid Israeli equipment unless you want it to shoot down all of your aircraft.

If you bought a re-cored Kaveri you would make everything but the hot section. Now you make none of GE.

:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:

Please, Dont do too much analysis without any facts,

36 rafales is final. Because there is no option clause.

If at all we buy any more fightwer it might be either russian stelath FGFA or F35. Because rafale deal invited too much controversy, Any new govt will vary, In a way the lobby which used congress for its dirty job has done the damage.

Plus if there is any billion dollar offset for new Kaveri engine is signed, all its parts should be made here in india.

Sure french may get royalty for each engine or a one time payment

If it is in any other way opposition will skin the govt

This is my assumption.

 

[ersakthivel]

. .......... ........................

00:39 to 1:00 a full vertical loop.

1:14 to 25 a half horizontal loop ( if it is so , it gives a sustained turn rat of near 17 to 18 deg?)


Or Am I wrong?


This is an FOC squadron service bird.


In a recent article by Indranil Roy (Bharath Rakshak) STR was given as 15 to 16 deg for Tejas.

DO we hv any other video of full performance?

 

[Armand2REP]

:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:

Please, Dont do too much analysis without any facts,

36 rafales is final. Because there is no option clause.

If at all we buy any more fightwer it might be either russian stelath FGFA or F35. Because rafale deal invited too much controversy, Any new govt will vary, In a way the lobby which used congress for its dirty job has done the damage.

Plus if there is any billion dollar offset for new Kaveri engine is signed, all its parts should be made here in india.

Sure french may get royalty for each engine or a one time payment

If it is in any other way opposition will skin the govt

This is my assumption.

There is an options clause for another 18, which if BJP wins they will exercise. Plus they will order an assembly line for another 114, plus 57 for the IN. As MKI goes to pasture the Rafale will be the new mainstay fighter of the IAF for the next 50 years. As Modi and the IAF Chief have stated, if Rafale had been in the sky on the 27th of February, the PAF wouldn't have made it home.

IAF has already evaluated the Su-57 and they said it is not ready and they aren't going to wait on it. That money is going for more Rafale. You should be glad as that frees up money for Tejas Mk2, the actual indigenous content version.

The Safran Kaveri deal is the same principle as the Shakti. It is better than what you get from GE which is NOTHING.

If Rahul gets a majority you can kiss France good bye.

 

[ersakthivel]

Mk1A needs to be between 40m to 45m dollars if they want the IAF to go anywhere near it. 63m is way too much for it as Gripen falls rightly under it.

Will gripen launch two Brahmos NG supersonic cruise missiles like Tejas mk1 A?

I dont think so.

game changing capability.

Tejas perfectly fits the bill for quick interception & light strikes on PAK border, which is the bread & butter affair for IAF,

Its very low wing loading makes it ideal for landing on any make shift high himalayan airfields,

Plus it has already proved its capacity to meet the stringent cold night long soak & restart next morning IAF spec in LEH.

 

[singhboy98]

Modi will buy 114 Rafale for the IAF and 57 Rafale for the IN... if BJP wins. If Cong wins France will be blacklisted like Italy.

If you had bought Israeli IFF you would have even more frat incidents. It is much safer to avoid Israeli equipment unless you want it to shoot down all of your aircraft.

If you bought a re-cored Kaveri you would make everything but the hot section. Now you make none of GE.

Wait what?? How does the efficacy of Israeli weapons come into the picture here?

 

[ersakthivel]

That is the bottom line. Tejas payload and range is too limited to be dumping too much money into it. You only fork out big bucks if the aircraft can do 2-3X more work. For 3 Tejas you get 2 Rafale, can those three do the same as those two?

:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:

Not so.

Just look at the recent kashmir air battle.

IAF forward bases let loose mig21s on invading F16s in no time. That is the sub continental reality.

Tejas has more than twice the endurance of Mig 21,

At any time IAF needs a few hundred fighter likes Tejas mk1 & mk2 to do this interception jobs on Pakistan border.

 

[ersakthivel]

There is an options clause for another 18, which if BJP wins they will exercise. Plus they will order an assembly line for another 114, plus 57 for the IN. As MKI goes to pasture the Rafale will be the new mainstay fighter of the IAF for the next 50 years. As Modi and the IAF Chief have stated, if Rafale had been in the sky on the 27th of February, the PAF wouldn't have made it home.

IAF has already evaluated the Su-57 and they said it is not ready and they aren't going to wait on it. That money is going for more Rafale. You should be glad as that frees up money for Tejas Mk2, the actual indigenous content version.

The Safran Kaveri deal is the same principle as the Shakti. It is better than what you get from GE which is NOTHING.

If Rahul gets a majority you can kiss France good bye.

18 may be,

IMHO Another 114 is a long shot.

You hv a right to your opinion.

Anyway lets not discuss too much of rafales in Tejas thread

 

[Immanuel]

Those RFIs are making rounds for 15 years. I think you have been here long enough to know that.
Regardless if PM Modi is interested in buying 100 plus MRCA from outside he would have signed the deal years ago. Instead, he just signed for a piecemeal purchase of 36 Rafale. Why? Maybe to save Indo-french relations. Once he gets re-elected most probably he will purchase addition 36 Rafale to bring meaning to IAF's Rafale fleet. beyond this every bit of money will be diverted towards MWF and AMCA.



It is COST OF STRATEGIC INDEPENDENCE, not ultimate waste.

The ULTIMATE WASTE of MONEY, however, is paying on compulsion USD ~45 Million for french upgrade kit per Mirage 2000--which did not even included engine-- when an Isreali upgrade kit was being offered at half the price.

That is why no cost is a greater cost for Strategic Independence.

As for the engine. M88 core without full ToT of the hot section at an exorbitant cost is not much better than buying GE-414 without any ToT. That is why GTRE-SNECMA deal is going nowhere.

The F414 will come with TOT if we buy the F-18SH Block 3 for IN and also plan to fit it on AMCA. Dangle a big enough order book with the US and it is possible to negotiate goodies.

 

[ersakthivel]

The F414 will come with TOT if we buy the F-18SH Block 3 for IN and also plan to fit it on AMCA. Dangle a big enough order book with the US and it is possible to negotiate goodies.

I dont think so, DOnt expect any jet engine tech from US.

Thats my POV

 

[Immanuel]

I dont think so, DOnt expect any jet engine tech from US.

Thats my POV

Well I didn't say full TOT, but we can be sure we will have final assembly of the F414 in India with some TOT.

 

[ersakthivel]

That is the bottom line. Tejas payload and range is too limited to be dumping too much money into it. You only fork out big bucks if the aircraft can do 2-3X more work. For 3 Tejas you get 2 Rafale, can those three do the same as those two?

Wrong.

Ability to integrate indigenously developed missiles & bombs seamlessly reduces the life cycle cost of mk1A substantially compared to any other fighter.

It will also feed on any new tech or radar developed for AMCA & Tejas mk2 MWF in midlife upgrades with no serious cost or compatibility issues

Will gripen launch two Brahmos NG supersonic cruise missiles like Tejas mk1 A?

I dont think so.

game changing capability.

Tejas perfectly fits the bill for quick interception & light strikes on PAK border, which is the bread & butter affair for IAF,

Its very low wing loading makes it ideal for landing on any make shift high himalayan airfields,

Plus it has already proved its capacity to meet the stringent cold night long soak & restart next morning IAF spec in LEH.

3tejas = 2 rafale mk1 A looks plausible on paper.

In reality if you take total life cycle, which includes
weapon cost,
spares, training,
logistics support ,
mid life upgrades cost,

It may end up 5 tejas = 2 rafales

More important than all the above.

5 tejas can be at 5 different places tightening the IAF defences, compared to two.

however costly & capable,

One fighter can not be at two different places as the recent kashmir air battle indicates,

 

[Armand2REP]

Wait what?? How does the efficacy of Israeli weapons come into the picture here?

Rahul was saying that they should have bought Israeli upgrades offered for Mirage so I simply stated the fact Israeli IFF is faulty and shoot down even friendly aircraft as Spyder was what shot down the Mi17v5.

https://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/faulty-israeli-iff-shot-down-mi17v5.81505/

 

[Armand2REP]

:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:

Not so.

Just look at the recent kashmir air battle.

IAF forward bases let loose mig21s on invading F16s in no time. That is the sub continental reality.

Tejas has more than twice the endurance of Mig 21,

At any time IAF needs a few hundred fighter likes Tejas mk1 & mk2 to do this interception jobs on Pakistan border.

You don't need to be spending Rafale type money on Tejas when it can only do 1/3rd of what Rafale can do. You need to be spending less money on Tejas so you can buy hundreds of them, around $40 million per should be the cap.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Modi will buy 114 Rafale for the IAF and 57 Rafale for the IN... if BJP wins. If Cong wins France will be blacklisted like Italy.

If you bought a re-cored Kaveri you would make everything but the hot section. Now you make none of GE.

Let me start by saying that BJP is winning bigger this time.

And Modi is not giving anyone an order worth USD 40 billion without getting ToT of the hot section in return. He is too hardcore to give away money, gift wrapped.

An engine is the last thing lacking here. So he will either get ToT of Hot section or He will put this money into the development of MWF and AMCA and follow on a project of Kaveri.

If you had bought Israeli IFF you would have even more frat incidents. It is much safer to avoid Israeli equipment unless you want it to shoot down all of your aircraft.

What? Where did you read about any?

BTW CABS IFF Mk-12(S) is already in production and installed on DRDO Netra. It will be our universal IFF in days to come.

 

[Rahul Singh]

The F414 will come with TOT if we buy the F-18SH Block 3 for IN and also plan to fit it on AMCA. Dangle a big enough order book with the US and it is possible to negotiate goodies.

In my opinion, no one is gonna give us ToT of Hot Section. So it is much better to sink a significant amount of money in R&D of a Turbofan instead of waiting forever.

 

[amit19]

Let me start by saying that BJP is winning bigger this time.

And Modi is not giving anyone an order worth USD 40 billion without getting ToT of the hot section in return. He is too hardcore to give away money, gift wrapped.

An engine is the last thing lacking here. So he will either get ToT of Hot section or He will put this money into the development of MWF and AMCA and follow on a project of Kaveri.

100% agreed. Modi/Doval have worked on this very hard. And they both will make sure that France will sit on "Strategic Partner" chair instead of "Business Partner" chair

 

[kunal1123]

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[vampyrbladez]

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Absolutely love this new LCA variant! Beautiful cockpit. Hopefully this is used in MK1A.

 

[Bleh]

Malaysia sends RFI to Russian Yak-130, Indian Tejas, Pakistani-Chinese JF-17, Italian Aermacchi MB-339 and South Korean T-50, March 27

Tender to purchase 18 light-fighter jets with option to be extended for 18 more!

This is Tejas's first RFI, I believe... IAF's FOC version might be too costly to win, but the 8.5G airframe downgraded to IOC+ standard actually would be superior to all its competitors. Not to mention, it never crashed & is the only one compatible with Russian, American, European & Israeli tech/arms!
(RMAF may ask for 2seaters though)