LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[MysticBuzz]

Can you just tell me who make acchuaters of kaan ? coz last time I heard you were importing acchuaters of tb2 drone..

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're intention is to learn and not just shitposting.

First off, the actuators. They're designed and produced by TAAC(a JV between TAI and ALTINAY, both Turkish companies).

TAAC - Flight Control Actuators

TB2 is from a different company but you're claims of the drone is also wrong.

For radars I don't understand how can one develop in so short period. Even japan took alot of time who is the initial or first country to make AESA. Country who has alot of experience took quite alot of time..
you guys dont open up JV's..

Who said we developed in short time? We were building factories to produce GaN chips a decade ago. Here's a news piece from 2014
Bilkent News – Bilkent-ASELSAN Partnership Establishes Turkey’s First Commercial Chip Factory

We have developed and put many different AESA based radars in service. The technological maturity has just reached to the level of integrating these systems to aerial radars. It was not a fast process.

Anyways what are the sub systems you guys have developed do let us know.. if not here then on respective thread...

This question is too broad. You need to narrow it down.

Radar of hisar SAM & whole system come from jv with Franco -italian eurosam by Thales,mbda & Leonardo... Right
And naval radars were JV's too..
Like akrep radar which is basically sting radar of thales. With some indigeneous components.. right. So that's why I thought the ozgur radars are JVs too.. on which further development are done...

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary claims. Do you have any source to base these on? Like any?

 

[Azaad]

 

[porky_kicker]

FYI

turkish companies/state offers tax free salaries upto million dollars to lure top flight experienced foreign enginners and scientists

this is one of the leading factors which they dont exactly advertise
(so imo saying 'by turkish enginners' is bit of a grey area)

also being part of NATO allows them near unrestricted access and insight to subsystems, components, production technologies, production methodologies ie nearly the entire prototype / product development and production cycle. some are done through legit means where possible, otherwise through industrial espionage

so its obvious why they manage to shorten the learning curve, every bit of external help, helps the local effort

anyways end of the day what matters is the result , not how you got the results

 

[raju1982]

Miscommunication between two MoD entities, that also situated few kms away. may caused tax payers 10s of crores of $$$. Thats why i was always shouting about project amangement office and accountability from DRDO and HAL. This is freaking shamefil!

Also tbere are many concession on ff and many products yet to get developed, while the deadline is 31st March 2024 and IAF begging for one aircraft before that.

Now some people woll say no need to privatise HAL! Many seems to be happy with current situation of IAF.

 

[raju1982]

FYI

turkish companies/state offers tax free salaries upto million dollars to lure top flight experienced foreign enginners and scientists

this is one of the leading factors which they dont exactly advertise
(so imo saying 'by turkish enginners' is bit of a grey area)

also being part of NATO allows them near unrestricted access and insight to subsystems, components, production technologies, production methodologies ie nearly the entire prototype / product development and production cycle. some are done through legit means where possible, otherwise through industrial espionage

so its obvious why they manage to shorten the learning curve, every bit of external help, helps the local effort

anyways end of the day what matters is the result , not how you got the results

If they are spending millions to lure foreign talents its good for them. China and SK also did same and gained in tech. What stopping Rajnath Singh from doing so?

 

[Blademaster]

Why guys u fighting. Let me them make first, whats a big deal. Is they going to attack us ?

No but they will supply Pakistan with 5th gen fighters.

 

[raju1982]

No but they will supply Pakistan with 5th gen fighters.

Yeah, thats the main issue. They already supplied drones. Most of Turkish weapons will be in the hands of pakis.

 

[jai jaganath]

 

[slayingheaven]

Miscommunication between two MoD entities, that also situated few kms away. may caused tax payers 10s of crores of $$$. Thats why i was always shouting about project amangement office and accountability from DRDO and HAL. This is freaking shamefil!

Also tbere are many concession on ff and many products yet to get developed, while the deadline is 31st March 2024 and IAF begging for one aircraft before that.

Now some people woll say no need to privatise HAL! Many seems to be happy with current situation of IAF.

What an embarrassment to a nation with some 75 Billion dollar defense budget and Top 5 Ekanamay. We don't even have any equivalent of Japanese ATLA, Korean DAPA and Chinese CMC EquipmentDepartment, Heck even the fucking Westminister system from which our babus copied has its own Integrated Acquistion-R&D-Project Management-Manufacturing (A-One-Stop-Solution) which is Defence Equipment and Support (DE&S) of UK. Presently we have MoD, under which we have seperate DRDO which seem to do their own thing, Department of Military Affairs aka Armed Forces who continue to fantasize their imaginary products, the lazy ass Department of Defense Production aka PSUs and no dedicated agency like above examples that handles project management, technology management, research and development, and procurement of defense equipment, Instead we have every person and department going their own way. I know whatever ISRO achieved is not noteworthy but their entire management is best in India*. If gobermint want to fasttrack shit it needs to build up a dedicated agency because sometimes we get kadi ninda guy as defense minister who don't seem to have a clue of what's happening or at worst god forbid ak antony.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

 

[Satish Sharma]

Knew it 2 tejas are already ready Jane's had reported from there source in hal. they will be delivered on 31st march
Mudiji never missed any opportunity..
Wait for 20 days..

 

[raju1982]

What an embarrassment to a nation with some 75 Billion dollar defense budget and Top 5 Ekanamay. We don't even have any equivalent of Japanese ATLA, Korean DAPA and Chinese CMC EquipmentDepartment, Heck even the fucking Westminister system from which our babus copied has its own Integrated Acquistion-R&D-Project Management-Manufacturing (A-One-Stop-Solution) which is Defence Equipment and Support (DE&S) of UK. Presently we have MoD, under which we have seperate DRDO which seem to do their own thing, Department of Military Affairs aka Armed Forces who continue to fantasize their imaginary products, the lazy ass Department of Defense Production aka PSUs and no dedicated agency like above examples that handles project management, technology management, research and development, and procurement of defense equipment, Instead we have every person and department going their own way. I know whatever ISRO achieved is not noteworthy but their entire management is best in India*. If gobermint want to fasttrack shit it needs to build up a dedicated agency because sometimes we get kadi ninda guy as defense minister who don't seem to have a clue of what's happening or at worst god forbid ak antony.

We have many limitations compared to China and USA, Japan or France like econony or industry. But lathergic babus taking long time to move files, politicians not showing intefest to sanction project or no accountability from DRDO/HAL, bad lroject management... all of these do not need money but is in worse condition in India. This is unpardonable

 

[Chinmoy]

Kaan does not have good stealthy air intakes.
Serpentine intakes are referred to as S shaped intakes in which engine fan is not visible from any angle.. in a shaped duct you cannot see another end, another factor which bae systems forgot was distance between two engines. which is quite more because of which s shaped duct is not easy to fit..
Here below is the image of intakes of kaan. if you see kaan from frontal aspect engine are hidden/stealth but from different angle it is notView attachment 243420View attachment 243401
View attachment 243434
This are fa18s intakes look quite similar where
Engines are partially exposed but not from straight frontal aspect.
View attachment 243403View attachment 243404
For comparison this are the serpentine intakes of amca(shared by shiv aroor)
and another one is of American stealth aircraft.
View attachment 243405View attachment 243406View attachment 243407

The another factor which people ignore is creeping wave return. To avoid creeping wave return you need this kind of serpentine Intakes.
View attachment 243416View attachment 243419

To keep creeping wave return minimal you need to keep the intakes as much more serpentine as possible.. as the curve intake part contributes to creeping wave return to source.. I mean more the the serpentine lesser the creeping wave return. More the s shaped better it is with ram it will have least return. Compared to what kaan has..
Radar absorbing coating Is important even in visually hidden part of intakes... That's how f35 & f22 achieve so good stealth... And in case of kaan, engine are partially visible it is not s shaped (most important it will have quite alot of wave return) the return will be high from engine as well..
It wont be that stealthy..
Stealth doesn't mean just having ram & geometrical shape which won't return the wave. The creeping wave return is also a factor. That's why the nose of the 5th gen aircraft isn't circular anymore... that's why s shaped ducts are used...


I don't know you are getting it or not as my own concepts are not 100% clear. I might not convey it 100% precisely..
I guess @Chinmoy will have knowledge regarding this... Do correct me if I'm wrong..

Good analysis.

But there are few points which you might have overlooked.

The pictures you have shared are of two different prototypes. Remember that unlike us, who works in paper for a decade to cover all aspect and then move on to funding for prototype, with Turkey its all about bringing the prototype first and then may be work on it.

The models you shared were first prototypes which were not made to fly. They have done taxi trials on these. So deciding on S type intake from these would not be prudent. Kaan do have S type intake because BAE system is working as consultant for them and atleast I do have believe in their Aeronautical design.

But the problem arise with the amount of air flow due to this intake design. Kaan in using the massive F110 engine with an air consumption of 122 kg/s as opposed to our 77kg/s F-414 engine. No the real question is, would the intake be able to cater that much of airflow? We faced the same issue with Tejas using F-404.

 

[Tejbrahmastra]

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Moments before crash, likely points to an engine snag, the aircraft seems to be structurally sound.

 

[Chinmoy]

Moments before crash, likely points to an engine snag, the aircraft seems to be structurally sound.

Seems like power loss.

 

[thebakofbakchod]

wow worst case scenario. Now import air force will stall mk1a even more. But still they should find the cause and fix it. There are only 40 frames, so 1 crash looks very bad

 

[Tejbrahmastra]

wow worst case scenario. Now import air force will stall mk1a even more. But still they should find the cause and fix it. There are only 40 frames, so 1 crash looks very bad

Just before the official induction, there is a crash. happened the same with tapas!

 

[Chinmoy]

And here comes the first two RR........................

 

[Tridev123]

Need to handle the accident like mature people.
The law of statistics will prevail, sooner or later.
When you are undertaking thousands of sorties an occasional failure is part of life.

The most advanced F35 has crashed more than once, Chinese fighters have regularly crashed, Su 35's have crashed, plenty of F16's have crashed etc. The list is long.

No doubt, some may say this accident happening just after India officially tested an MIRV tipped Agni 5 missile raises questions about whether our enemies have done mischief. But no need to go paranoid.

If we cannot accept and handle failures, then it is better to sit at home, do nothing and cry.

Do a thorough post mortem of the accident to arrive at the causes and implement whatever corrective measures are required.

We don't need to backslide but renew our faith in the LCA Tejas and go full stream ahead to induct the LCA mk1a.
Maybe the decision makers would like to wait for the result of the enquiry into the accident. No problem. A small delay only.

The Tejas LCA is a fine aircraft and there is nothing basically wrong with it.
A small speed breaker should not scare us.