LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Javelin_Sam]

More order will only be given once MK1A is tested properly, otherwise there will be another mid life upgradation into MK1B with new sensors to attract more LCAs.

I expect more order once IAF fully deploys 1st squadron of MK1A and tests it with other jets. Remember MK1A has always been a stop gap for them, IAF never was fully satisfied with them, lot depends on MK1A's performance in coming days.

With what will IAF be satisfied?

 

[Bhokaal]

With what will IAF be satisfied?

foreign maal

 

[kamaal]

With what will IAF be satisfied?

A cheaper, faster, easy to maintain, technologically state of the art super sonic interceptor jet and good OEM support. LCA still isn't able to provide some of this requirements.

 

[Blademaster]

A cheaper, faster, easy to maintain, technologically state of the art super sonic interceptor jet and good OEM support. LCA still isn't able to provide some of this requirements.

What you quoted is an oxymoron. You can’t have everything. You can only have cheap and good but not advanced. Or good and advanced but not cheap or advanced and cheap but not good.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

A cheaper, faster, easy to maintain, technologically state of the art super sonic interceptor jet and good OEM support. LCA still isn't able to provide some of this requirements.

This is what block upgrades exist for, no aircraft is perfect or meets all the requirements in the first go, F-16 wouldn't be Block 70/72 variants if Block 1 or Block 5 aircraft were perfect.

 

[Azaad]

What you quoted is an oxymoron. You can’t have everything. You can only have cheap and good but not advanced. Or good and advanced but not cheap or advanced and cheap but not good.

I think far too many people who've been following this program out here & outside of it seem hung up about the many changes sought vs achieved in the LCA over the years & how those changes vs achievements may not necessarily be at par with competition thus grading the FA as per their own subjective parameters vis a vis competition.

I've seen some pretty well informed commentators fall prey to this syndrome in here & out there. What should be the sole criteria to judge the efficacy of the FA is whether the IAF is satisfied with it in its current format irrespective of what the views the IAF held about it a decade or 2 decades ago.

The short answer is the IAF is satisfied with the product which is why they're actively involved in future iterations of it viz Mk-1a & Mk-2. Beyond that the only other parameters to be considered which would obviously be part of the SQRs designed by the IAF is how does the LCA Mk-1 square up against the PAF since it's understood that both the Mk-1 & Mk-1a would be deployed first & foremost for Air Patrol duties on our western front following which they'd PROBABLY be stationed on our northern & eastern front line air bases ( of which I've my doubts) ?

If follows that it's only when the IAF is confident about it's capabilities after vigorous tests over a span of time that they'd entrust to it the role the MiG-21 undertook & which the LCAs are in the process of moving onto. Further for those not in the know most of the LCA Mk-1 would be converted to Mk-1a specs eventually except the earliest iterations of the Mk-1.

 

[Johny_Baba]

A cheaper, faster, easy to maintain, technologically state of the art super sonic interceptor jet and good OEM support. LCA still isn't able to provide some of this requirements.

This is exactly what i also argued for in past, and with recent HLFT-42 announcement it seems we may go that way to fill the numbers with that for cheap, mass produceable, super sonic fighter-interceptor jet, we SHOULD.

say, any chance of HLFT-42 becoming Mig-21 replacement ?
> based on old era interceptor-strike aircraft design of HF-24
> instead of modern fibre composite structures, going back to conventional metal alloys one to speed up production
> with a powerful GE F404 // F414 class engine can achieve considerable speeds
> ability to carry lots of missiles

so HLFT-42 becoming F-5 Tiger // F-20 Tigershark like alternative here to Mig-21 while Tejas Mk2, TEDBF//ORCA and AMCA etc taking up space of Mig-29, Mirage-200, Jaguar and Su-30MKI etc etc in future ?

maybe but Mig-21 was mass produce-able aircraft here, thoroughout its production here we made 800+ some of different variants and kept retiring previous ones and supplementing them with newer ones (also kept crashing-supplementing etc)
this HLFT-42 also seems similar in that regard that it can be mass produce-able thing, hence me think in previous post

(off-topic for this thread but) to all aviation geek-nerds here, what is update on HLFT-42 "Maruti" though yeh sala defense expos me show off baazi khatam hone ke baad toh jaise sab bhula hi diya jata hai ham yeh karenge woh karenge end me toh mungfali tier output hota hai

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Indian Air Force moves Tejas fighter jets to Kashmir

Tejas completed seven years of service in the Indian Air Force
Synopsis
The Indian Air Force has deployed its indigenous Light Combat Aircraft Tejas in Jammu and Kashmir so that pilots gain experience in flying in the valleys along the border with Pakistan. The IAF has multiple bases in the northern sector to support operations on both the China and Pakistan fronts. The Tejas has been designed to undertake air defence, maritime reconnaissance and strike roles.

The Indian Air Force has moved its indigenous Light Combat Aircraft Tejas to Jammu and Kashmir for the fleet to gain experience in flying in the valleys of the union territory situated along the border with Pakistan. The Indian Air Force keeps moving its aircraft in the Northern sector including Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh to give pilots the experience of flying there in their unique terrain.

The Indian Air Force has multiple bases in the Union Territory which are critical for operations on both fronts including China and Pakistan. "The pilots of the fleet are carrying out extensive flying there," defence officials told news agency ANI.

The IAF is strongly supporting the indigenous LCA Tejas fighter aircraft programme and more and more capabilities are being to the aircraft.

Earlier this month, Tejas completed seven years of service in the Indian Air Force. Christened Tejas in 2003, the aircraft is a multi- role platform that has been designed to undertake the air defence, maritime reconnaissance and strike roles. The first IAF Squadron to induct the Tejas was No 45 Squadron. In May 2020, No 18 Squadron became the second IAF unit to operate the Tejas.

Tejas has taken part at various international air shows, including Dubai Air Show-2021, Singapore Air Show and and Aero India Shows. While it has participated in exercises with foreign air forces domestically, Ex-Desert Flag in the United Arab Emirates in March 2023 was the Tejas' maiden exercise on foreign soil.

In 2021, the Indian Air Force had ordered 83 Tejas figther jets (LCA Mk-1A) which will have updated avionics, as well as an Active Electronically Steered Radar, updated Electronic Warfare suite and a Beyond Visual Range missile capability. The new variant will be capable of firing a plethora of weapons from increased stand-off ranges. Deliveries for The LCA MK-1A is expected to commence in February 2024 and it will see a substantial increase in the overall indigenous content of the aircraft.

 

[vin bharat mahan]

More order will only be given once MK1A is tested properly, otherwise there will be another mid life upgradation into MK1B with new sensors to attract more LCAs.

I expect more order once IAF fully deploys 1st squadron of MK1A and tests it with other jets. Remember MK1A has always been a stop gap for them, IAF never was fully satisfied with them, lot depends on MK1A's performance in coming days.

still tejas is 2-4 times superior than mig 21 nd jaguars....which we operate untill 2024-25 nd 2035. its best we operate 200 tejas 1a nd 200 approx tejas mark 2. coz we loosed quality nd quantity with chinese. even we r little better than pakistani air force currently in quality nd quantity. so its better we atleast make quantity improvement with pakistan. our ratio should be 4:1 with pakistan. which is currently 1.5:1. chinese r right now far to touch. minimum we should hv 1000 fighters of 4 nd 4.5 genration is "ok" number untill 2035...right now we hv only approx 500 fighters in 4 nd 4.5 genration.

 

[astransastra]

So even if we include all these tom fooleries of IAF in the development cycle of Tejas we can see that the Tejas program effectively started with the requirements being laid out by IAF in 1986 and concluded with the start of deliveries of Tejas mk1 to IAF in 2015 which spans a timeline of 30 years not very different from standalone fighter jet development efforts from other countries like French Rafale, Swedish Gripen, or Chinese J10.

Of these only Rafale took around the same time period for program start to induction. To be specific we can compare milestones like 1st flight to Induction and Rafale actually took 15 years which is more than LCA that LCA took of 14 years. Gripen took 8 years, J10 took 7. Though happened in Iron curtain era when the two nations poured in more money into defense research US took 4 years for F15, USSR took 4 years for MIG. I am using only 1st flight to Induction milestones as there is no clear data available on when the programs took off. But we can say most of these programs completed in 15 to max 20 year time frame. So we can reasonably say both Rafale and LCA were delayed by 10 years bench marked to Industry standard.

 

[JohnWick]

So we can reasonably say both Rafale and LCA were delayed by 10 years bench marked to Industry standard.

We must also take into account the fact that India was subjected to sanctions and embargoes in the 1990s. As a result, many of the components of Tejas that were supposed to be imported initially had to be manufactured locally, thereby causing further delays. Given the circumstances, these delays should be deemed acceptable, and when taken into consideration, the Tejas program's development cycle remains well within industry standards.

 

[astransastra]

We must also take into account the fact that India was subjected to sanctions and embargoes in the 1990s. As a result, many of the components of Tejas that were supposed to be imported initially had to be manufactured locally, thereby causing further delays. Given the circumstances, these delays should be deemed acceptable, and when taken into consideration, the Tejas program's development cycle remains well within industry standards.

Yep i would fully agree. All i am saying is we can't say LCA program was not delayed, but can say aforementioned reasons caused that delays. Hopefully AMCA can achieve 4-5 years 1st flight to Induction time as India can leverage lessons learnt and design experience from LCA now.

 

[DumbPilot]

Yep i would fully agree. All i am saying is we can't say LCA program was not delayed, but can say aforementioned reasons caused that delays. Hopefully AMCA can achieve 4-5 years 1st flight to Induction time as India can leverage lessons learnt and design experience from LCA now.

Before AMCA, I surely hope this is the case with Tejas Mk2 - AMCA bases its tech based off of all that is implemented inside the Tejas Mk2

 

[daya]

still tejas is 2-4 times superior than mig 21 nd jaguars....which we operate untill 2024-25 nd 2035. its best we operate 200 tejas 1a nd 200 approx tejas mark 2. coz we loosed quality nd quantity with chinese. even we r little better than pakistani air force currently in quality nd quantity. so its better we atleast make quantity improvement with pakistan. our ratio should be 4:1 with pakistan. which is currently 1.5:1. chinese r right now far to touch. minimum we should hv 1000 fighters of 4 nd 4.5 genration is "ok" number untill 2035...right now we hv only approx 500 fighters in 4 nd 4.5 genration.

Till the date, I am not able to understand the purchase of Jaguars....

 

[WolfPack86]

WILL F-16 SHOOT DOWN TEJAS TO WIN ARGENTINA FIGHTER AIRCRAFT DEAL?
Washington's desire to sell fighter jets to Argentina is a setback for China and India, as they have also submitted their proposals to provide fighter jets to the South American country. Reportedly, Russia has extended an offer to sell its MiG-35 fighter aircraft to Buenos Aires.

In 2021, Argentina's defence ministry decided to buy 12 new fighter jets for around $664 million. The United States is in a hurry to finalize a fighter-jet agreement with Argentina. They are offering the South American country used F-16 fighter jets in order to beat China and India's bids. As per a report from Argentinian media, the White House is pressuring the United States Congress to authorize the sale of 24 F-16 A/B Fighting Falcon fighter jets currently being used by the Royal Danish Air Force. The proposed deal from the US is estimated at a value of $700 million.

Washington's desire to sell fighter jets to Argentina is a setback for China and India, as they have also submitted their proposals to provide fighter jets to the South American country. Reportedly, Russia has extended an offer to sell its MiG-35 fighter aircraft to Buenos Aires.

New Delhi has proposed its 4.5 generation Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) TEJAS, and Beijing has presented an offer of 15 JF-17 'Thunder Block' jets, which are a joint development with Pakistan.

During a recent four-day visit to India, Argentinian Defence Minister Jorge Enrique Taiana mentioned to Indian media outlets that Argentina is seeking fighter jets without any British components. This request comes as a result of the UK's limitations on defence exports to Argentina due to the ongoing dispute over the Malvinas Islands.

Taiana informed that the TEJAS includes 16 British components. However, it is not yet clear whether India has proposed to replace these parts in their offer.

Following the visit of the Defence minister, La Nación, an Argentine newspaper, reported that the Argentine Defense Forum (FAD) has been actively evaluating proposals for the F-16 A/B Fighting Falcon and the Chinese Chengdu JF-17 Thunder Block fighter jets.

According to the report, the F-16 has been deemed a 'more powerful aircraft', but if Argentina chooses to acquire the American-origin fighter jet, it will necessitate investments in upgrading airport infrastructure.

According to a former IAF pilot, the US military-industrial complex holds an advantage. Air Marshal M Matheswaran, a veteran of the Indian Air Force (IAF), told news agencies that the 'ruthless' American military-industrial complex has a competitive advantage over other contenders due to its extensive presence and influence in the global arms market.

SIPRI reported that the United States holds the title of the largest global weapons exporter, generating sales exceeding $204 billion in 2022. On the other hand, Indian Defence Minister Rajnath Singh revealed that India's weapons sales reached a record high of $1.93 billion in 2022-23.

Matheswaran, currently serving as the President of Chennai-based think tank The Peninsula Foundation (TPF), commented that the US military-industrial complex is relentless. While bidding for the Argentine contract, the US might have considered its Global Strategic Partnership with India, but it won't compromise on promoting its defence exports to other nations.

The former IAF pilot emphasized that the F-16 fighter jets were not of the same size as either the TEJAS or the Chinese JF-17. Matheswaran stated that the TEJAS and JF-17 are of similar size, but the F-16 is larger and more costly.

A Challenging Decision Ahead For Argentina

According to Matheswaran, Argentina is now confronted with a "difficult" decision to select either the Chinese or the American fighter jets. As Argentina aims to enhance relations with other developing countries, it has been forming closer connections with China and India. The country is among those aspiring for BRICS membership," remarked the think-tanker.

As per the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), China has surpassed the US in recent years to become South America's primary trading partner. Argentina, along with other Latin American countries, has procured millions of dollars' worth of military equipment from Beijing, according to the CFR.

The 2016 'China Policy Paper on Latin America and the Caribbean' indicated that Beijing would strengthen collaboration in military trade and military technology with the region.

India's relations with the region are flourishing, and it currently holds the position of Argentina's fourth-largest trading partner. The two nations upgraded their relations to a 'Strategic Partnership' in 2019 and also signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) on defence cooperation during the same year.

Both India and China have extended their support to Argentina at the UN Special Committee on Decolonization (C-24). This committee has called for the resumption of negotiations on the sovereignty of the Malvinas Islands, a call that the UK has opposed until now. Currently, Argentina, facing financial challenges, is in negotiations for a much-needed bailout from the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

Will F-16 Shoot Down Tejas To Win Argentina Fighter Aircraft Deal?

India's 4.5+ light fighter jet TEJAS is competing for the Argentinian defence acquisition pie Washington's desire to sell fighter jets to Ar...

www.indiandefensenews.in

 

[daya]

WILL F-16 SHOOT DOWN TEJAS TO WIN ARGENTINA FIGHTER AIRCRAFT DEAL?
Washington's desire to sell fighter jets to Argentina is a setback for China and India, as they have also submitted their proposals to provide fighter jets to the South American country. Reportedly, Russia has extended an offer to sell its MiG-35 fighter aircraft to Buenos Aires.

In 2021, Argentina's defence ministry decided to buy 12 new fighter jets for around $664 million. The United States is in a hurry to finalize a fighter-jet agreement with Argentina. They are offering the South American country used F-16 fighter jets in order to beat China and India's bids. As per a report from Argentinian media, the White House is pressuring the United States Congress to authorize the sale of 24 F-16 A/B Fighting Falcon fighter jets currently being used by the Royal Danish Air Force. The proposed deal from the US is estimated at a value of $700 million.

Washington's desire to sell fighter jets to Argentina is a setback for China and India, as they have also submitted their proposals to provide fighter jets to the South American country. Reportedly, Russia has extended an offer to sell its MiG-35 fighter aircraft to Buenos Aires.

New Delhi has proposed its 4.5 generation Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) TEJAS, and Beijing has presented an offer of 15 JF-17 'Thunder Block' jets, which are a joint development with Pakistan.

During a recent four-day visit to India, Argentinian Defence Minister Jorge Enrique Taiana mentioned to Indian media outlets that Argentina is seeking fighter jets without any British components. This request comes as a result of the UK's limitations on defence exports to Argentina due to the ongoing dispute over the Malvinas Islands.

Taiana informed that the TEJAS includes 16 British components. However, it is not yet clear whether India has proposed to replace these parts in their offer.

Following the visit of the Defence minister, La Nación, an Argentine newspaper, reported that the Argentine Defense Forum (FAD) has been actively evaluating proposals for the F-16 A/B Fighting Falcon and the Chinese Chengdu JF-17 Thunder Block fighter jets.

According to the report, the F-16 has been deemed a 'more powerful aircraft', but if Argentina chooses to acquire the American-origin fighter jet, it will necessitate investments in upgrading airport infrastructure.

According to a former IAF pilot, the US military-industrial complex holds an advantage. Air Marshal M Matheswaran, a veteran of the Indian Air Force (IAF), told news agencies that the 'ruthless' American military-industrial complex has a competitive advantage over other contenders due to its extensive presence and influence in the global arms market.

SIPRI reported that the United States holds the title of the largest global weapons exporter, generating sales exceeding $204 billion in 2022. On the other hand, Indian Defence Minister Rajnath Singh revealed that India's weapons sales reached a record high of $1.93 billion in 2022-23.

Matheswaran, currently serving as the President of Chennai-based think tank The Peninsula Foundation (TPF), commented that the US military-industrial complex is relentless. While bidding for the Argentine contract, the US might have considered its Global Strategic Partnership with India, but it won't compromise on promoting its defence exports to other nations.

The former IAF pilot emphasized that the F-16 fighter jets were not of the same size as either the TEJAS or the Chinese JF-17. Matheswaran stated that the TEJAS and JF-17 are of similar size, but the F-16 is larger and more costly.

A Challenging Decision Ahead For Argentina

According to Matheswaran, Argentina is now confronted with a "difficult" decision to select either the Chinese or the American fighter jets. As Argentina aims to enhance relations with other developing countries, it has been forming closer connections with China and India. The country is among those aspiring for BRICS membership," remarked the think-tanker.

As per the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), China has surpassed the US in recent years to become South America's primary trading partner. Argentina, along with other Latin American countries, has procured millions of dollars' worth of military equipment from Beijing, according to the CFR.

The 2016 'China Policy Paper on Latin America and the Caribbean' indicated that Beijing would strengthen collaboration in military trade and military technology with the region.

India's relations with the region are flourishing, and it currently holds the position of Argentina's fourth-largest trading partner. The two nations upgraded their relations to a 'Strategic Partnership' in 2019 and also signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) on defence cooperation during the same year.

Both India and China have extended their support to Argentina at the UN Special Committee on Decolonization (C-24). This committee has called for the resumption of negotiations on the sovereignty of the Malvinas Islands, a call that the UK has opposed until now. Currently, Argentina, facing financial challenges, is in negotiations for a much-needed bailout from the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

Will F-16 Shoot Down Tejas To Win Argentina Fighter Aircraft Deal?

India's 4.5+ light fighter jet TEJAS is competing for the Argentinian defence acquisition pie Washington's desire to sell fighter jets to Ar...

www.indiandefensenews.in

What to talk about Argentina, when we have yet to accept Tejas by core of heart..

 

[kamaal]

We shall rather not look for a customer like argentina, they'll be a liability for us. We should stop promoting LCA for them, it's not lucrative enough anymore. We need someone who is ready to pay good/steady amount, a strategic partner and one who share common interest like Philippines, Indonesia, Egypt, etc. LCA is not a war proven platform and it'll get bad mouthing if there is a bad customer.

 

[FactsPlease]

... someone who is ready to pay good/steady amount, a strategic partner and one who share common interest ....

And Vietnam: it's in this crossroad for NO more interest in Russian fighters. Its economy has been doing well and still looking good though some turbulence lately.

Nevertheless, I still hope LCA production catch up w/ domestic needs before any export talk.

 

[binayak95]

still tejas is 2-4 times superior than mig 21 nd jaguars....which we operate untill 2024-25 nd 2035. its best we operate 200 tejas 1a nd 200 approx tejas mark 2. coz we loosed quality nd quantity with chinese. even we r little better than pakistani air force currently in quality nd quantity. so its better we atleast make quantity improvement with pakistan. our ratio should be 4:1 with pakistan. which is currently 1.5:1. chinese r right now far to touch. minimum we should hv 1000 fighters of 4 nd 4.5 genration is "ok" number untill 2035...right now we hv only approx 500 fighters in 4 nd 4.5 genration.

Eh, leave the Jaguar out of this, The DARIN III Jag is lethal and excellent at strikes.

 

[binayak95]

And Vietnam: it's in this crossroad for NO more interest in Russian fighters. Its economy has been doing well and still looking good though some turbulence lately.

Nevertheless, I still hope LCA production catch up w/ domestic needs before any export talk.

Just buy LCAs and gift them to vietnam and phillipines