LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

WolfPack86

New Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
10,571
Likes
16,993
Country flag
#HAL readies new variant of Tejas ahead of maiden flight

.

The first Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas fighter from the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) block, SP-21, is set for independent and integrated system checks at Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL)’s LCA-Tejas Division.

“In aeronautical parlance, the first fighter in the FOC category is in the equipping stage of the production life cycle. We are confident of its first flight in two months,” an official said.

The proactive steps taken by HAL towards fabrication of common parts and assemblies to meet timeline requirements of Indian Air Force (IAF) have shown better results now.

The final DAL (Drawing Applicability List) for Tejas FOC variants was received during February 2019 by HAL. DAL is the standard of preparation for production that forms the basis for the final product to be delivered to the customer.

Interactions with various teams involved in the Tejas project during the recent visit of Defence Minister Rajnath Singh to HAL, Onmanorama has learned that HAL is currently awaiting a crucial software upgrade from its partner Aeronautics Development Agency (ADA) for the upgraded fighters.

In the FOC block, HAL needs to manufacture 16 fighters, a task that is now expected to be completed by March 2021.

♦ New features

The FOC configuration of the aircraft has been evolved based on various technological improvements on the Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) block of 16 fighters, now operated by IAF.

Among the key features that have been added to improve the performance are: air-to-air refueling probe, Gsh-23 mm gun, pressure refueling with three drop tank configuration, integration of 725 and 450 liters of drop tank, improved wing navigation lamp, in-flight wind mill relight, tandem pylon and zoom climb to name a few.

Team HAL is hopeful that the SP-21 will go for the EGR (engine ground run) during end of October, followed by the first flight.

“Our work force is currently in a home stretch, equipping SP-21 for its maiden flight,” an official said.

♦ Manufacturing highlights

The decision to launch common parts between IOC and FOC fighters well in advance has now showing rich dividends. The LCA-Tejas Division has now cut down the lead time for production of aircraft from 12-18 months to eight months.

“We have gained good experience during manufacturing of aircraft with IOC configuration, which is coming handy during the ongoing production of SP-21 onwards,” the official added.

HAL has incorporated many key improvements in the production line to reduce the cycle time and better quality product. They include: use of robotic drilling, reduction in PI (pre-installation checks) of LRUs (line replace units), maximizing the outsourcing for detail components, outsourcing of complete major assemblies like wing and fuselage, maintainability improvement through enhanced looming cut-outs and ICY (inter-changeability) of pipes and panels and use of copper mesh on wing assembly.

♦ Private partnership

HAL has developed a good vendor base across India for supplying detail parts, sub-assemblies and major assemblies like complete wing and fuselage for the LCA production. Presently 45 per cent of the LCA components are being sub-contracted.

Moves are afoot to indigenize imported LRUs to further improve the private partnership in the programmme.

“This would enable us to increase the production rate of LCA. Out of 16 FOC strike aircraft, four are planned to be delivered by this FY (March 2020) and remaining 12 fighters will be delivered within next FY (March 2021),” says the official.

The structural build of SP-22 and SP-23 is under progress in the division, while the assembly of front, center and rear fuselages has been completed well in time of their production.

The wing sets for both these fighters are getting fabricated in the dedicated facility and the same are expected by October and November.

♦ Team charged up

The LCA-Tejas Division is a comparatively new wing of HAL is a comparatively new wing of HAL and is propelled by 800 plus engineers and workmen. The visit of Rajnath Singh and his subsequent flight on Tejas trainer has lifted the morale of the team.

The appointment of Air Marshal R K S Bhadauria as the next Chief of Air Staff too has come at the right time for the LCA-Tejas Division. Air Marshal Bhadauria has seen Tejas taking baby steps and he was instrumental in the No 45 Squadron Flying Daggers moving to AFS Sulur from Bengaluru, ahead of schedule.

“The inputs from No 45 Squadron (operating Tejas at AFS Sulur) have been encouraging. We have a self-motivated and dedicated team who gained expertise and technical acumen by being part of the IOC aircraft production process. This has increased the confidence of our team and we now eyeing on 83 Mk1A orders from Ministry of Defence,” says the official.

Both Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) Chairman Dr G Satheesh Reddy and HAL Chairman and manging Director M Madhavan confirmed to Onmanorma that the 83 MK1A orders are in the final stages of completion.

They say all major issues have been sorted out barring those linked to ground equipment and other support systems.

HAL hopes that all pending issues will be sorted in the next two months and the contract will be inked during this FY itself.

Source- https://english.manoramaonline.com/news/nation/2019/09/21/hal-new-variant-of-tejas-ahead-ofmaiden-flight.html
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TeamAMCA/photos/?ref=page_internal
 

Bleh

Laughing member
New Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
6,239
Likes
26,077
Country flag
HAL readies new variant of Tejas ahead of maiden flight


First Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas fighter from the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) block, SP-21

Bengaluru: The first Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas fighter from the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) block, SP-21, is set for independent and integrated system checks at Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL)’s LCA-Tejas Division.

“In aeronautical parlance, the first fighter in the FOC category is in the equipping stage of the production life cycle. We are confident of its first flight in two months,” an official said.

The proactive steps taken by HAL towards fabrication of common parts and assemblies to meet timeline requirements of Indian Air Force (IAF) have shown better results now.

The final DAL (Drawing Applicability List) for Tejas FOC variants was received during February 2019 by HAL. DAL is the standard of preparation for production that forms the basis for the final product to be delivered to the customer.

Interactions with various teams involved in the Tejas project during the recent visit of Defence Minister Rajnath Singh to HAL, Onmanorama has learned that HAL is currently awaiting a crucial software upgrade from its partner Aeronautics Development Agency (ADA) for the upgraded fighters.

In the FOC block, HAL needs to manufacture 16 fighters, a task that is now expected to be completed by March 2021.

New features

The FOC configuration of the aircraft has been evolved based on various technological improvements on the Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) block of 16 fighters, now operated by IAF.


Among the key features that have been added to improve the performance are: air-to-air refueling probe, Gsh-23 mm gun, pressure refueling with three drop tank configuration, integration of 725 and 450 liters of drop tank, improved wing navigation lamp, in-flight wind mill relight, tandem pylon and zoom climb to name a few.

Team HAL is hopeful that the SP-21 will go for the EGR (engine ground run) during end of October, followed by the first flight.

“Our work force is currently in a home stretch, equipping SP-21 for its maiden flight,” an official said.

Manufacturing highlights

The decision to launch common parts between IOC and FOC fighters well in advance has now showing rich dividends. The LCA-Tejas Division has now cut down the lead time for production of aircraft from 12-18 months to eight months.

“We have gained good experience during manufacturing of aircraft with IOC configuration, which is coming handy during the ongoing production of SP-21 onwards,” the official added.

HAL has incorporated many key improvements in the production line to reduce the cycle time and better quality product. They include: use of robotic drilling, reduction in PI (pre-installation checks) of LRUs (line replace units), maximizing the outsourcing for detail components, outsourcing of complete major assemblies like wing and fuselage, maintainability improvement through enhanced looming cut-outs and ICY (inter-changeability) of pipes and panels and use of copper mesh on wing assembly.



Private partnership

HAL has developed a good vendor base across India for supplying detail parts, sub-assemblies and major assemblies like complete wing and fuselage for the LCA production. Presently 45 per cent of the LCA components are being sub-contracted.

Moves are afoot to indigenize imported LRUs to further improve the private partnership in the programmme.

“This would enable us to increase the production rate of LCA. Out of 16 FOC strike aircraft, four are planned to be delivered by this FY (March 2020) and remaining 12 fighters will be delivered within next FY (March 2021),” says the official.

The structural build of SP-22 and SP-23 is under progress in the division, while the assembly of front, center and rear fuselages has been completed well in time of their production.

The wing sets for both these fighters are getting fabricated in the dedicated facility and the same are expected by October and November.

Team charged up

The LCA-Tejas Division is a comparatively new wing of HAL and is propelled by 800 plus engineers and workmen. The visit of Rajnath Singh and his subsequent flight on Tejas trainer has lifted the morale of the team.

The appointment of Air Marshal R K S Bhadauria as the next Chief of Air Staff too has come at the right time for the LCA-Tejas Division. Air Marshal Bhadauria has seen Tejas taking baby steps and he was instrumental in the No 45 Squadron Flying Daggers moving to AFS Sulur from Bengaluru, ahead of schedule.

“The inputs from No 45 Squadron (operating Tejas at AFS Sulur) have been encouraging. We have a self-motivated and dedicated team who gained expertise and technical acumen by being part of the IOC aircraft production process. This has increased the confidence of our team and we now eyeing on 83 Mk1A orders from Ministry of Defence,” says the official.

Both Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) Chairman Dr G Satheesh Reddy and HAL Chairman and manging Director M Madhavan confirmed to Onmanorma that the 83 MK1A orders are in the final stages of completion.

They say all major issues have been sorted out barring those linked to ground equipment and other support systems.

HAL hopes that all pending issues will be sorted in the next two months and the contract will be inked during this FY itself.

https://english.manoramaonline.com/...w-variant-of-tejas-ahead-ofmaiden-flight.html

==============================================

Here is the video of LCA FOC(standard) SP-21 in the production line...
#HAL readies new variant of Tejas ahead of maiden flight

.

The first Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas fighter from the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) block, SP-21, is set for independent and integrated system checks at Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL)’s LCA-Tejas Division.

“In aeronautical parlance, the first fighter in the FOC category is in the equipping stage of the production life cycle. We are confident of its first flight in two months,” an official said.

The proactive steps taken by HAL towards fabrication of common parts and assemblies to meet timeline requirements of Indian Air Force (IAF) have shown better results now.

The final DAL (Drawing Applicability List) for Tejas FOC variants was received during February 2019 by HAL. DAL is the standard of preparation for production that forms the basis for the final product to be delivered to the customer.

Interactions with various teams involved in the Tejas project during the recent visit of Defence Minister Rajnath Singh to HAL, Onmanorama has learned that HAL is currently awaiting a crucial software upgrade from its partner Aeronautics Development Agency (ADA) for the upgraded fighters.

In the FOC block, HAL needs to manufacture 16 fighters, a task that is now expected to be completed by March 2021.

♦ New features

The FOC configuration of the aircraft has been evolved based on various technological improvements on the Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) block of 16 fighters, now operated by IAF.

Among the key features that have been added to improve the performance are: air-to-air refueling probe, Gsh-23 mm gun, pressure refueling with three drop tank configuration, integration of 725 and 450 liters of drop tank, improved wing navigation lamp, in-flight wind mill relight, tandem pylon and zoom climb to name a few.

Team HAL is hopeful that the SP-21 will go for the EGR (engine ground run) during end of October, followed by the first flight.

“Our work force is currently in a home stretch, equipping SP-21 for its maiden flight,” an official said.

♦ Manufacturing highlights

The decision to launch common parts between IOC and FOC fighters well in advance has now showing rich dividends. The LCA-Tejas Division has now cut down the lead time for production of aircraft from 12-18 months to eight months.

“We have gained good experience during manufacturing of aircraft with IOC configuration, which is coming handy during the ongoing production of SP-21 onwards,” the official added.

HAL has incorporated many key improvements in the production line to reduce the cycle time and better quality product. They include: use of robotic drilling, reduction in PI (pre-installation checks) of LRUs (line replace units), maximizing the outsourcing for detail components, outsourcing of complete major assemblies like wing and fuselage, maintainability improvement through enhanced looming cut-outs and ICY (inter-changeability) of pipes and panels and use of copper mesh on wing assembly.

♦ Private partnership

HAL has developed a good vendor base across India for supplying detail parts, sub-assemblies and major assemblies like complete wing and fuselage for the LCA production. Presently 45 per cent of the LCA components are being sub-contracted.

Moves are afoot to indigenize imported LRUs to further improve the private partnership in the programmme.

“This would enable us to increase the production rate of LCA. Out of 16 FOC strike aircraft, four are planned to be delivered by this FY (March 2020) and remaining 12 fighters will be delivered within next FY (March 2021),” says the official.

The structural build of SP-22 and SP-23 is under progress in the division, while the assembly of front, center and rear fuselages has been completed well in time of their production.

The wing sets for both these fighters are getting fabricated in the dedicated facility and the same are expected by October and November.

♦ Team charged up

The LCA-Tejas Division is a comparatively new wing of HAL is a comparatively new wing of HAL and is propelled by 800 plus engineers and workmen. The visit of Rajnath Singh and his subsequent flight on Tejas trainer has lifted the morale of the team.

The appointment of Air Marshal R K S Bhadauria as the next Chief of Air Staff too has come at the right time for the LCA-Tejas Division. Air Marshal Bhadauria has seen Tejas taking baby steps and he was instrumental in the No 45 Squadron Flying Daggers moving to AFS Sulur from Bengaluru, ahead of schedule.

“The inputs from No 45 Squadron (operating Tejas at AFS Sulur) have been encouraging. We have a self-motivated and dedicated team who gained expertise and technical acumen by being part of the IOC aircraft production process. This has increased the confidence of our team and we now eyeing on 83 Mk1A orders from Ministry of Defence,” says the official.

Both Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) Chairman Dr G Satheesh Reddy and HAL Chairman and manging Director M Madhavan confirmed to Onmanorma that the 83 MK1A orders are in the final stages of completion.

They say all major issues have been sorted out barring those linked to ground equipment and other support systems.

HAL hopes that all pending issues will be sorted in the next two months and the contract will be inked during this FY itself.

Source- https://english.manoramaonline.com/news/nation/2019/09/21/hal-new-variant-of-tejas-ahead-ofmaiden-flight.html
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TeamAMCA/photos/?ref=page_internal
:india::india::india::india::india::india::india::india::india:
:balleballe::basanti::cruisin2::santa::gangnam::bounce:.....................

@porky_kicker @Chinmoy @Indx TechStyle @IndianHawk
Is the LSP-8 Tejas that was at Aero India to receive FOC, itself the first of FOC standard or just was a representative?
 
Last edited:

lcafanboy

New Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
5,875
Likes
37,838
Country flag
HAL readies new variant of Tejas ahead of maiden flight
Anantha Krishnan M September 21, 2019 05:20 PM IST



First Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas fighter from the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) block, SP-21. Photo: Manorama
Bengaluru: The first Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas fighter from the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) block, SP-21, is set for independent and integrated system checks at Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL)’s LCA-Tejas Division.

“In aeronautical parlance, the first fighter in the FOC category is in the equipping stage of the production life cycle. We are confident of its first flight in two months,” an official said.

The proactive steps taken by HAL towards fabrication of common parts and assemblies to meet timeline requirements of Indian Air Force (IAF) have shown better results now.

The final DAL (Drawing Applicability List) for Tejas FOC variants was received during February 2019 by HAL. DAL is the standard of preparation for production that forms the basis for the final product to be delivered to the customer.

Interactions with various teams involved in the Tejas project during the recent visit of Defence Minister Rajnath Singh to HAL, Onmanorama has learned that HAL is currently awaiting a crucial software upgrade from its partner Aeronautics Development Agency (ADA) for the upgraded fighters.

In the FOC block, HAL needs to manufacture 16 fighters, a task that is now expected to be completed by March 2021.

New features

The FOC configuration of the aircraft has been evolved based on various technological improvements on the Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) block of 16 fighters, now operated by IAF.


Among the key features that have been added to improve the performance are: air-to-air refueling probe, Gsh-23 mm gun, pressure refueling with three drop tank configuration, integration of 725 and 450 liters of drop tank, improved wing navigation lamp, in-flight wind mill relight, tandem pylon and zoom climb to name a few.

Team HAL is hopeful that the SP-21 will go for the EGR (engine ground run) during end of October, followed by the first flight.

“Our work force is currently in a home stretch, equipping SP-21 for its maiden flight,” an official said.

Manufacturing highlights

The decision to launch common parts between IOC and FOC fighters well in advance has now showing rich dividends. The LCA-Tejas Division has now cut down the lead time for production of aircraft from 12-18 months to eight months.

“We have gained good experience during manufacturing of aircraft with IOC configuration, which is coming handy during the ongoing production of SP-21 onwards,” the official added.

HAL has incorporated many key improvements in the production line to reduce the cycle time and better quality product. They include: use of robotic drilling, reduction in PI (pre-installation checks) of LRUs (line replace units), maximizing the outsourcing for detail components, outsourcing of complete major assemblies like wing and fuselage, maintainability improvement through enhanced looming cut-outs and ICY (inter-changeability) of pipes and panels and use of copper mesh on wing assembly.


Private partnership

HAL has developed a good vendor base across India for supplying detail parts, sub-assemblies and major assemblies like complete wing and fuselage for the LCA production. Presently 45 per cent of the LCA components are being sub-contracted.

Moves are afoot to indigenize imported LRUs to further improve the private partnership in the programmme.

“This would enable us to increase the production rate of LCA. Out of 16 FOC strike aircraft, four are planned to be delivered by this FY (March 2020) and remaining 12 fighters will be delivered within next FY (March 2021),” says the official.

The structural build of SP-22 and SP-23 is under progress in the division, while the assembly of front, center and rear fuselages has been completed well in time of their production.

The wing sets for both these fighters are getting fabricated in the dedicated facility and the same are expected by October and November.

Team charged up

The LCA-Tejas Division is a comparatively new wing of HAL and is propelled by 800 plus engineers and workmen. The visit of Rajnath Singh and his subsequent flight on Tejas trainer has lifted the morale of the team.

The appointment of Air Marshal R K S Bhadauria as the next Chief of Air Staff too has come at the right time for the LCA-Tejas Division. Air Marshal Bhadauria has seen Tejas taking baby steps and he was instrumental in the No 45 Squadron Flying Daggers moving to AFS Sulur from Bengaluru, ahead of schedule.

“The inputs from No 45 Squadron (operating Tejas at AFS Sulur) have been encouraging. We have a self-motivated and dedicated team who gained expertise and technical acumen by being part of the IOC aircraft production process. This has increased the confidence of our team and we now eyeing on 83 Mk1A orders from Ministry of Defence,” says the official.


Both Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) Chairman Dr G Satheesh Reddy and HAL Chairman and manging Director M Madhavan confirmed to Onmanorma that the 83 MK1A orders are in the final stages of completion.

They say all major issues have been sorted out barring those linked to ground equipment and other support systems.

HAL hopes that all pending issues will be sorted in the next two months and the contract will be inked during this FY itself.

https://english.manoramaonline.com/...den-flight.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
 

Shashwat

New Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
Messages
305
Likes
1,098
Country flag
Since we are buying 21 Mig29s, how about we retrofit UTTAM into Mig29s. We can retrofit UTTAM into LCA Tejas Mk-1 (IOC/?FOC) at an earlier date and for MK-1A during their MLU.
Thats the issue. Its a russian plane why would they allow you to put your product and let go of opportunity for their own industry. Thats why we need local platform so that we can use our own D&D product.

We can retrofit to exisiting Tejas at a later date not earlier.

From what I can discern Uttam will be used in Mk1a and Mk2 will probably use GaN based Uttam. 2052 is costly and will hamper HAL revenue, by the time Mk1a gets into production Uttam will be ready.
 

ladder

New Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
7,258
Likes
12,233
Country flag
Thats the issue. Its a russian plane why would they allow you to put your product and let go of opportunity for their own industry. Thats why we need local platform so that we can use our own D&D product.

We can retrofit to exisiting Tejas at a later date not earlier.

From what I can discern Uttam will be used in Mk1a and Mk2 will probably use GaN based Uttam. 2052 is costly and will hamper HAL revenue, by the time Mk1a gets into production Uttam will be ready.
What's the difference between Mig29 SMT vs Mig29UPG?
How did that came into being? You have to negotiate.

Earlier date here means a date 'earlier' than their MLU date.

It's good that DRDO/ADA is confident that by the time MK-1A production begins, UTTAM AESA will be ready. What if it isn't?
My suggestion was in the event of UTTAM not getting ready in time for MK-1A.
Rather than just waiting for 4-5 years for fitting UTTAM into MK-2, why not 'negotiate' with Russia and fit UTTAM into Mig-29s in the mean time..
 

Shashwat

New Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
Messages
305
Likes
1,098
Country flag
What's the difference between Mig29 SMT vs Mig29UPG?
How did that came into being? You have to negotiate.

Earlier date here means a date 'earlier' than their MLU date.

It's good that DRDO/ADA is confident that by the time MK-1A production begins, UTTAM AESA will be ready. What if it isn't?
My suggestion was in the event of UTTAM not getting ready in time for MK-1A.
Rather than just waiting for 4-5 years for fitting UTTAM into MK-2, why not 'negotiate' with Russia and fit UTTAM into Mig-29s in the mean time..
I never said you can't update/grade - what I said when an OEM/country sell you the fighter their main bread winner is the spare parts and MLU/Upgrade package - Mirage is a nice example.

Moreover you just cannot plug and play a radar and expect it to work, it has to be fully compaitible with other Avionics, computers and armaments. Russia will never agree with it plus it'll be a headache given all the Fulcrums will be phased sonner or later in the next decade. IAF UPG are not AESA but still PESA radar.

Uttam is fixed, scalable non swivelable radar. Technically it can even power Rafale, Flanker and all the fighter, but you just can't put what you want. There are lots of riders in upgrade.

1. If it isn't, then 2052, but highly unlikely.

2. I specifically highlighter at a later date not because of grammar but because of stark reality. You don't throw away your existing h/w if you get a good one. Stands a reason why Mig Bis will be in service till 2025. Every component has its shelf life and a cash strapped or even a rich force will not throw away a working equipment for a new one. Technology change is rampant, if you stick to changing with the speed of tech change you'll be stuck in a loop.

3. You don't really understand AESA- s/w defined hardware are designed to reduce the hardware changes and improve the capabilities just by doing s.w enhancements, sure there are riders and limiters but thats the gist of it. Just by fitting Uttam to Mig will not validate it, you still need to improve s/w and test it not to mention the headache to integrate it with Russian avionics.

Uttam or its iterations are best suited to be mated with Indian h.w and not with foreign maal.

And who said we were buying Mig 29s?
Yes we are buying partially built Migs in UPG standard.
 

ladder

New Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
7,258
Likes
12,233
Country flag
I never said you can't update/grade - what I said when an OEM/country sell you the fighter their main bread winner is the spare parts and MLU/Upgrade package - Mirage is a nice example.

Moreover you just cannot plug and play a radar and expect it to work, it has to be fully compaitible with other Avionics, computers and armaments. Russia will never agree with it plus it'll be a headache given all the Fulcrums will be phased sonner or later in the next decade. IAF UPG are not AESA but still PESA radar.

Uttam is fixed, scalable non swivelable radar. Technically it can even power Rafale, Flanker and all the fighter, but you just can't put what you want. There are lots of riders in upgrade.

1. If it isn't, then 2052, but highly unlikely.

2. I specifically highlighter at a later date not because of grammar but because of stark reality. You don't throw away your existing h/w if you get a good one. Stands a reason why Mig Bis will be in service till 2025. Every component has its shelf life and a cash strapped or even a rich force will not throw away a working equipment for a new one. Technology change is rampant, if you stick to changing with the speed of tech change you'll be stuck in a loop.

3. You don't really understand AESA- s/w defined hardware are designed to reduce the hardware changes and improve the capabilities just by doing s.w enhancements, sure there are riders and limiters but thats the gist of it. Just by fitting Uttam to Mig will not validate it, you still need to improve s/w and test it not to mention the headache to integrate it with Russian avionics.

Uttam or its iterations are best suited to be mated with Indian h.w and not with foreign maal.



Yes we are buying partially built Migs in UPG standard.
That's why I gave the examples to you. Mig29 UPG vs Mig29 SMT. UPG had some India procured/supplied components replacing some of the Russian origin components.
Since 2011 there was talks of different ASEA radars for Mig29. A couple of European origin and obviously Zhuk-AME. Zhuk-AME was delayed and currently as news indicates it will be fitted on Mig-35.

While retrofitting AESA radar into an old platform many things have to be considered including like the weight, the cooling required, the power requirement and other factors like wiring and cabling.
Aslo, the parameters you have mentioned are vital. But not surmountable?
Isn't the feature of UTTAM AESA being Scalable will come in handy here?

Yes, I very well know that Mig29 UPG has PESA MMR. If it were to be ASEA, why would I have bothered to recommend to retrofit UTTAM?

MIRAGE example is not suitable because, with mirage IAF wanted to play safe. With the vitality the MIRAGE enjoys in IAF scheme of things, it's was not advisable for any non OEM component in upgrade package. IAF din't have any issues with the upgrade.

Isn't the very fact that some of the Mig29s will be retired in a decade a boon in itself? Retrofitting AESA in them will be a low risk affair. If successful very good, if not current PESA radar is good enough to see it fly into the sunset.
Also, newer Mig-29s (including the yet to be acquired ones) will serve for a lot longer time.
With this project the outcome of the possibility of retrofitting UTTAM AESA into Mig-29 K/KuB will be more or less clear. (Although they are made to different standard M/M2). Those Ks are going to serve for a lot longer.

I don't 'want' to 'put' anything anywhere. Rather, I am exploring integration of a particular thing into a particular aircraft. Then the riders becomes 'specific' riders, hence the term 'negotiate' has been mentioned earlier.

Contd........
 

ladder

New Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
7,258
Likes
12,233
Country flag
That's why I gave the examples to you. Mig29 UPG vs Mig29 SMT. UPG had some India procured/supplied components replacing some of the Russian origin components.
Since 2011 there was talks of different ASEA radars for Mig29. A couple of European origin and obviously Zhuk-AME. Zhuk-AME was delayed and currently as news indicates it will be fitted on Mig-35.

While retrofitting AESA radar into an old platform many things have to be considered including like the weight, the cooling required, the power requirement and other factors like wiring and cabling.
Aslo, the parameters you have mentioned are vital. But not surmountable?
Isn't the feature of UTTAM AESA being Scalable will come in handy here?

Yes, I very well know that Mig29 UPG has PESA MMR. If it were to be ASEA, why would I have bothered to recommend to retrofit UTTAM?

MIRAGE example is not suitable because, with mirage IAF wanted to play safe. With the vitality the MIRAGE enjoys in IAF scheme of things, it's was not advisable for any non OEM component in upgrade package. IAF din't have any issues with the upgrade.

Isn't the very fact that some of the Mig29s will be retired in a decade a boon in itself? Retrofitting AESA in them will be a low risk affair. If successful very good, if not current PESA radar is good enough to see it fly into the sunset.
Also, newer Mig-29s (including the yet to be acquired ones) will serve for a lot longer time.
With this project the outcome of the possibility of retrofitting UTTAM AESA into Mig-29 K/KuB will be more or less clear. (Although they are made to different standard M/M2). Those Ks are going to serve for a lot longer.

I don't 'want' to 'put' anything anywhere. Rather, I am exploring integration of a particular thing into a particular aircraft. Then the riders becomes 'specific' riders, hence the term 'negotiate' has been mentioned earlier.

Contd........
1. Obviously 2052. But do you know 2052 has been integrated with Kfir? Why? Why did they offer 2052 for Jaguar update at a lower price than others in the market? That's why I said if UTTAM isn't available in time for MK-1A, it will not see squadron service till MK-2 comes along. Squadron service is vital for proper feedback. Limited developmental flights in a business jet and a couple of LSP can achieve nearly all developmental goals but not all operational goals other wise colloquially called 'battle proven'.
2. The stark reality is that if ROI is good then existing hardware can be changed. No use sticking to the old hardware just because there is lot of technical life left. Mig-Bis would not be in service till 2025, Bison would be. And be it Mig 21 FL, MF or Bis, they are in service today because (FL, MF has been retired) of the falling squadron numbers. They are flown less to preserve the Total Technical Life. Do you remember a snake was found in the cockpit of a Mig21?
Therefore although what you are prescribing is correct and should be followed. But look at the bigger picture. Its not just any piece of hardware. Isn't squadron service essential for proper feedback?

3. All that you have written are technical challenges. And whether I understand the nitty-gritties AESA, is secondary here, isn't it? We haven't delved in to specificity have we? We are discussing the the probability of retrofitting and outcome. You may feel the learning from the outcomes is less than the 'headache' involved in integrating into Russian system. I may feel otherwise.

This is my last on this. There is no use discussing deeper for a speculative piece. If something similar were to happen, we will surely know from news. Thanks for putting your points lucidly.
 
Last edited:

Shashwat

New Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
Messages
305
Likes
1,098
Country flag
1. Obviously 2052. But do you know has been integrated with Kfir? Why? Why did they offer 2052 for Jaguar update at a lower price than others in the market? That's why I said if UTTAM isn't available in time for MK-1A, it will not see squadron service till MK-2 comes along. Squadron service is vital for proper feedback. Limited developmental flights in a business jet and a couple of LSP can achieve nearly all developmental goals but not all operational goals other wise colloquially called 'battle proven'.
2. The stark reality is that if ROI is good then existing hardware can be changed. No use sticking to the old hardware just because there is lot of technical life left. Mig-Bis would not be in service till 2025, Bison would be. And be it Mig 21 FL, MF or Bis, they are in service today because (FL, MF has been retired) of the falling squadron numbers.They are flown less to preserve the Total Technical Life. Do you remember a snake was found in the cockpit of a Mig21?
Therefore although what you are prescribing is correct and should be followed. But look at the bigger picture. Its not just any piece of hardware. Isn't squadron service essential for proper feedback?

3. All that you have written are technical challenges. And whether I understand the nitty-gritties AESA, is secondary here, isn't it? We haven't delved in to specificity have we? We are discussing the the probability of retrofitting and outcome. You may feel the learning from the outcomes is less than the 'headache' involved in integrating into Russian system. I may feel otherwise.

This is my last on this. There is no use discussing deeper for a speculative piece. If something similar were to happen, we will surely know from news. Thanks for putting your points lucidly.
You don't seems to understand. Uttam is not ready yet, not just for Tejas but any aircraft. Putting it in anyother a/c will not magically make it complete. Moreover the same point applies - it has to be tested and fool proof fpor each a/c its integrated with before squadron service. Squadron inputs will be added either in s.w upgrades and/or new model. Moreover, if and when it'll be ready the first a/c it will be for, is Tejas, because its designed for Tejas.

Development goals are operational goals. You don't make changes at the 11th hour, when you induct something into operations they are operationally ready else you don't do it.

Eta 2052 is an old tested and proven radar - you can put it anywhere all you need is to integrate. Uttam s/w will be ready by the time Mk1a starts owing to delay in Mk1a order.

Bision are bis upgraded - there are only internal changes frame remains intact. When bis techincal life gets over its over. Upgrades are done on avionics / weapons - frame life remain constant - bis ->bison.

Recently got this on WhatsApp.

View attachment 38803


But I've serious doubt when I do compare KJL-7A and Uttam.
This is from the copy master defencedecode video . Avoid! No one gets to the exact count. The numbers are way off, his videos are nothing but rip off from idrw, delhidefence review and some stuff from wiki.

Elta 2052 can be upto 180Kg as per official data - https://www.iai.co.il/p/elm-2052
 

ladder

New Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
7,258
Likes
12,233
Country flag
You don't seems to understand. Uttam is not ready yet, not just for Tejas but any aircraft. Putting it in anyother a/c will not magically make it complete.
It's good that DRDO/ADA is confident that by the time MK-1A production begins, UTTAM AESA will be ready. What if it isn't?
My suggestion was in the event of UTTAM not getting ready in time for MK-1A.
Rather than just waiting for 4-5 years for fitting UTTAM into MK-2, why not 'negotiate' with Russia and fit UTTAM into Mig-29s in the mean time..
Oh yes Sir! I don't understand. Quite naive. I thought UTTAM AESA has a USB 3.0 connectivity interface. Plug and play. Old generation, should have Bluetooth connectivity also.
 

Chinmoy

New Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
8,930
Likes
23,094
Country flag
This is from the copy master defencedecode video . Avoid! No one gets to the exact count. The numbers are way off, his videos are nothing but rip off from idrw, delhidefence review and some stuff from wiki.

Elta 2052 can be upto 180Kg as per official data - https://www.iai.co.il/p/elm-2052
The weight range is from 80 to 180 kg depending on Antenna. So the weight factor might be true in regards to Tejas.
 

Articles

Top