LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

MonaLazy

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But bro isn't it this article before the declaration of winner
So I think it might be author's personal opinion
When was the winner declared? Let's wait for an RMAF/Malay MINDEF announcement.

frontierindia.com/malaysian-air-force-selection-of-korean-fa-50-is-speculative-lca-tejas-is-still-in-the-race/

Malaysian Air Force selection of Korean FA-50 is speculative; LCA Tejas is still in the race

1663355255555.png


Malaysia has issued an RFP for 18 jets as part of the FLIT-LCA (Lead In Trainer-Light Combat Aircraft) programme. Korean media claimed that the FA-50 block 20 had been selected for the tender. The Malaysian Air Force did not corroborate the KAI official claim. The FA-50 is yet to be integrated with an AESA and a Beyond Visual Range missile. An aerial refuelling flying boom developed for the T-50A has completed its flight test.

By
Girish Linganna is a Defence & Aerospace analyst and is the Director of ADD Engineering Components (India) Pvt Ltd, a subsidiary of ADD Engineering GmbH, Germany with manufacturing units in Russia. He is Consulting Editor Industry and Defense at Frontier India.
The Korean media claims that the Malaysian Air Force has ‘virtually’ confirmed that the FA-50 block 20 had been selected for the tender for 18 jets as part of the Lead In Trainer-Light Combat Aircraft or FLIT-LCA program.
Korean media SBS News, on September 13, quotes a Korean Aerospace Industries official saying, “The negotiation for export of 18 FA-50s worth 1 trillion won to Malaysia is also imminent.”
SBS further writes that the combined export volume of FA-50s to Poland and Malaysia exceeds the total FA-50 exports in the past, including the T-50 training aircraft of the same type. KAI has inked the sale for 48 FA-50 from Poland.
The news source further states that KAI is working on installing the state-of-the-art AESA radar developed for the Korean supersonic fighter KF-21 on the FA-50 and strengthening air-to-air armament.
The Malaysian Air Force did not corroborate the KAI official claim, and Indian officials have termed it speculative.
A similar claim was made in July this year
when a Singapore based news outlet ‘Global Business Press’ citing sources, wrote that General Asghar Khan Goriman Khan, commander of the RMAF, had “evinced” a preference for the “cheap and efficient supersonic advanced light attack platform” over competing aircraft. It further said that the contract is anticipated to be finalized if the present administration wins the next elections. Malaysia is anticipated to conduct early general elections before the current Parliament’s term expires in July 2023. However, the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) of Korea denied the news.
Malaysian FLIT-LCA tender

Malaysia has issued an RFP for 18 jets as part of the FLIT-LCA (Lead In Trainer-Light Combat Aircraft) programme. In accordance with the Royal Malaysian Air Force’s (RMAF) Capability Development 2055 policy, Malaysia’s FLIT project intends to acquire 18 light combat aircraft now and another 18 jets in 2025.
The FA-50 from Korea Aerospace Industries, the Sino-Pakistani JF-17 from Pakistan Aeronautical Complex and Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, the Italian M-346 from Leonardo, the Indian Tejas Mk 1 from Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), and the Russian Yak-130 are potential rivals.
The issues with the KAI offer
About four months ago, Korea and KAI agreed to receive up to 50% of the payment in palm oil and related products if selected for the light fighter tender. Before that, Korea was reluctant to the idea but had to relent as the other competitors, India, Pakistan / China, and Russia, had agreed to the Malaysian condition. Three of these countries are already importing palm oil from Malaysia. In other words, the FA-50 was a model that was likely to be eliminated because it did not accept the option to pay for palm oil.
Also, there was concern in Malaysia that some aircraft companies, especially Western-made aircraft companies, would not participate if the palm oil payment option was offered as a bid condition.

1663355081941.png

FA-50. Image: KAI
Another issue is that FA-50 does not yet have a dedicated 300 gallon conformal tank. The receptive conformal tank and aerial refuelling device are not yet available on the FA-50. However, an aerial refuelling flying boom developed for the T-50A, an older variant of FA-50, has completed its flight test. It is not known if airworthiness certification or penetrating certification has been completed.
As mentioned above, the FA-50 is yet to be integrated with an AESA and a Beyond Visual Range missile.
The Indian LCA Tejas does not have the above problems, but it is known that Malaysia has objection to the Israeli AESA radar system installed in the aircraft. However, HAL is already working on integrating the Indian Uttam AESA radar on the Tejas. In addition, Tejas is the only aircraft in the world which has been tested with weapon systems from India, Russia, the United States, France and Israel. Logically, HAL could deliver the full configuration aircraft to Malaysia faster than KAI.
KAI and HAL have agreed to build the final assembly lines in Malaysia. Here too, HAL has an advantage over KAI because it can service Malaysian Air Forces SU-30 aircraft of Russian origin. The Indian Air Force has already trained the Malaysian Air Force pilots for operating the SU-30 aircraft and conduct regular drills with RMAF. Since IAF operates LCA Tejas, it will be a continuation of these practices.
HAL’s proposal to Malaysia

In October 2021, HAL submitted their proposal to the Malaysian Ministry of Defense (MINDEF). HAL believes that the two-seat Tejas LIFT (Lead in Fighter Trainer) model had a strong chance of winning the competition since it met all of the RMAF’s specifications.
On August 18, HAL signed a memorandum of intent to open a Kuala Lumpur office. The KL office will be responsible for promoting HAL’s assortment of products and services across South East Asia.
 
Last edited:

jai jaganath

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When was the winner declared? Let's wait for an RMAF/Malay MINDEF announcement.

frontierindia.com/malaysian-air-force-selection-of-korean-fa-50-is-speculative-lca-tejas-is-still-in-the-race/

Malaysian Air Force selection of Korean FA-50 is speculative; LCA Tejas is still in the race

View attachment 171841

Malaysia has issued an RFP for 18 jets as part of the FLIT-LCA (Lead In Trainer-Light Combat Aircraft) programme. Korean media claimed that the FA-50 block 20 had been selected for the tender. The Malaysian Air Force did not corroborate the KAI official claim. The FA-50 is yet to be integrated with an AESA and a Beyond Visual Range missile. An aerial refuelling flying boom developed for the T-50A has completed its flight test.

By
Girish Linganna is a Defence & Aerospace analyst and is the Director of ADD Engineering Components (India) Pvt Ltd, a subsidiary of ADD Engineering GmbH, Germany with manufacturing units in Russia. He is Consulting Editor Industry and Defense at Frontier India.
The Korean media claims that the Malaysian Air Force has ‘virtually’ confirmed that the FA-50 block 20 had been selected for the tender for 18 jets as part of the Lead In Trainer-Light Combat Aircraft or FLIT-LCA program.
Korean media SBS News, on September 13, quotes a Korean Aerospace Industries official saying, “The negotiation for export of 18 FA-50s worth 1 trillion won to Malaysia is also imminent.”
SBS further writes that the combined export volume of FA-50s to Poland and Malaysia exceeds the total FA-50 exports in the past, including the T-50 training aircraft of the same type. KAI has inked the sale for 48 FA-50 from Poland.
The news source further states that KAI is working on installing the state-of-the-art AESA radar developed for the Korean supersonic fighter KF-21 on the FA-50 and strengthening air-to-air armament.
The Malaysian Air Force did not corroborate the KAI official claim, and Indian officials have termed it speculative.
A similar claim was made in July this year
when a Singapore based news outlet ‘Global Business Press’ citing sources, wrote that General Asghar Khan Goriman Khan, commander of the RMAF, had “evinced” a preference for the “cheap and efficient supersonic advanced light attack platform” over competing aircraft. It further said that the contract is anticipated to be finalized if the present administration wins the next elections. Malaysia is anticipated to conduct early general elections before the current Parliament’s term expires in July 2023. However, the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) of Korea denied the news.
Malaysian FLIT-LCA tender

Malaysia has issued an RFP for 18 jets as part of the FLIT-LCA (Lead In Trainer-Light Combat Aircraft) programme. In accordance with the Royal Malaysian Air Force’s (RMAF) Capability Development 2055 policy, Malaysia’s FLIT project intends to acquire 18 light combat aircraft now and another 18 jets in 2025.
The FA-50 from Korea Aerospace Industries, the Sino-Pakistani JF-17 from Pakistan Aeronautical Complex and Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, the Italian M-346 from Leonardo, the Indian Tejas Mk 1 from Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), and the Russian Yak-130 are potential rivals.
The issues with the KAI offer
About four months ago, Korea and KAI agreed to receive up to 50% of the payment in palm oil and related products if selected for the light fighter tender. Before that, Korea was reluctant to the idea but had to relent as the other competitors, India, Pakistan / China, and Russia, had agreed to the Malaysian condition. Three of these countries are already importing palm oil from Malaysia. In other words, the FA-50 was a model that was likely to be eliminated because it did not accept the option to pay for palm oil.
Also, there was concern in Malaysia that some aircraft companies, especially Western-made aircraft companies, would not participate if the palm oil payment option was offered as a bid condition.

View attachment 171840
FA-50. Image: KAI
Another issue is that FA-50 does not yet have a dedicated 300 gallon conformal tank. The receptive conformal tank and aerial refuelling device are not yet available on the FA-50. However, an aerial refuelling flying boom developed for the T-50A, an older variant of FA-50, has completed its flight test. It is not known if airworthiness certification or penetrating certification has been completed.
As mentioned above, the FA-50 is yet to be integrated with an AESA and a Beyond Visual Range missile.
The Indian LCA Tejas does not have the above problems, but it is known that Malaysia has objection to the Israeli AESA radar system installed in the aircraft. However, HAL is already working on integrating the Indian Uttam AESA radar on the Tejas. In addition, Tejas is the only aircraft in the world which has been tested with weapon systems from India, Russia, the United States, France and Israel. Logically, HAL could deliver the full configuration aircraft to Malaysia faster than KAI.
KAI and HAL have agreed to build the final assembly lines in Malaysia. Here too, HAL has an advantage over KAI because it can service Malaysian Air Forces SU-30 aircraft of Russian origin. The Indian Air Force has already trained the Malaysian Air Force pilots for operating the SU-30 aircraft and conduct regular drills with RMAF. Since IAF operates LCA Tejas, it will be a continuation of these practices.
HAL’s proposal to Malaysia

In October 2021, HAL submitted their proposal to the Malaysian Ministry of Defense (MINDEF). HAL believes that the two-seat Tejas LIFT (Lead in Fighter Trainer) model had a strong chance of winning the competition since it met all of the RMAF’s specifications.
On August 18, HAL signed a memorandum of intent to open a Kuala Lumpur office. The KL office will be responsible for promoting HAL’s assortment of products and services across South East Asia.
Even sbs reported it
I think that's one of the most reliable SK news outlet
 

Aniruddha Mulay

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Khud hamare liye uttam ready nahi hai
Hum unko kya offer karenge
Uttam will be available in 41st tejas that will be approx 2026 so we can't offer them to malaysian
Uttam is ready and even the production partner has been finalized which is HAL who has the experience in building TRM modules for the ELTA 2052
 

jai jaganath

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Uttam is ready and even the production partner has been finalized which is HAL who has the experience in building TRM modules for the ELTA 2052
Yes uttam is ready but not ready for production if it was then we could have fit it in 21st tejas but we are doing it in 41st that means hal is not in state to produce or some complexity exists
If we are not confident on systems and not using it why would other nation be interested
 

Dark Sorrow

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Mk. 1A is properly funded. Part of its tech is already flying in two Tejas Mk1 FOC. There are no changes in external configuration, maybe some optimizations. This is not an experimental aircraft. So that's not the reason it was rejected.
Lets analyze the statement.
  • Mk. 1A is properly funded
  • Part of its tech is already flying in two Tejas Mk1 FOC
  • There are no changes in external configuration, maybe some optimizations
All these are qualities of an experimental aircraft and not an operational aircraft. In-short what we offer is not what exist as of now but what will exist in future.

Qualities of an operational aircraft
  1. Ready accepted by air-force of home country
  2. Clear upgrade path and future
  3. Availability of service centers
  4. 100+ aircraft in use
  5. Home air-force ready to use these aircraft in contested airspace
  6. Tactics and strategies developed for the aircraft
Any third country will regard such aircraft as a paper aircraft and no air-force will buy a half-baked pie.

Lets analyze all primary LRUs
  1. Uttam AESA - Still under testing
  2. DRDO/DARE Unified EW Suite - Under developmental testing
  3. Tejas is not BVR capable (Malaysian POV)
  4. Israeli component dependence (mainly SDR)
  5. Cockpit avionics, electronics and software is still under upgrade
I really want Tejas to be exported but I am also practical and I understand what it takes to sale your high technological product.

If we are able to sale Tejas to Malaysian Air force it will be one of the greatest a strategic and diplomatic feat of Modi goverment.🤞🤞🤞
 
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Dark Sorrow

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Israel–Malaysia currently maintain no formal diplomatic relations.
Malaysia officially maintains an outwardly hostile position towards Israel and won't accept Israel components and sub-assemblies in their defense apparatus.
Malaysian passports bear the inscription: "This passport is valid for all countries except Israel". Israeli passport holders are forbidden to enter Malaysia without written permission from the Malaysian Ministry of Home Affairs. The recognition of Israel is a politically delicate issue for the Malaysian government.
 

Blademaster

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Lets analyze the statement.
  • Mk. 1A is properly funded
  • Part of its tech is already flying in two Tejas Mk1 FOC
  • There are no changes in external configuration, maybe some optimizations
All these are qualities of an experimental aircraft and not an operational aircraft. In-short what we offer is not what exist as of now but what will exist in future.

Qualities of an operational aircraft
  1. Ready accepted by air-force of home country
  2. Clear upgrade path and future
  3. Availability of service centers
  4. 100+ aircraft in use
  5. Home air-force ready to use these aircraft in contested airspace
  6. Tactics and strategies developed for the aircraft
Any third country will regard such aircraft as a paper aircraft and no air-force will buy a half-baked pie.

Lets analyze all primary LRUs
  1. Uttam AESA - Still under testing
  2. DRDO/DARE Unified EW Suite - Under developmental testing
  3. Tejas is not BVR capable (Malaysian POV)
  4. Israeli component dependence (mainly SDR)
  5. Cockpit avionics, electronics and software is still under upgrade
I really want Tejas to be exported but I am also practical and I understand what it takes to sale your high technological product.

If we are able to sale Tejas to Malaysian Air force it will be one of the greatest a strategic and diplomatic feat of Modi goverment.🤞🤞🤞
All this argument can be made against F-35 but you don't see countries turning down F-35s back in the 2000s, do you?
 

Javelin_Sam

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Yes uttam is ready but not ready for production if it was then we could have fit it in 21st tejas but we are doing it in 41st that means hal is not in state to produce or some complexity exists
If we are not confident on systems and not using it why would other nation be interested
The Israelis gave Elta Radar for Jaguar upgrade order on the condition that they need a large order. A specified number was agreed upon of which only a part was the numbers required for Jaguar. So remaining of those numbers will be made. Uttam also had help from Elta for it's backend. That's why Uttam mk1 production has been given to HAL so that they can balance the numbers. Uttam mk2 I think will be made by Astra microwave or some others
 

Dark Sorrow

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All this argument can be made against F-35 but you don't see countries turning down F-35s back in the 2000s, do you?
Buddy you are comparing Apple to Oranges.

US has a mature aerospace industry and academic base with proven track record while India doesn't.
Like it or not US has a brand reputation when it comes to aerospace industry with several successful projects.
Even before starting the F-35 project US had already proved it capabilities in 5th Generation fighter with F-22.

The United States is the primary customer and financial backer, with planned procurement of 1,763 F-35As for the USAF, 353 F-35Bs and 67 F-35Cs for the USMC, and 273 F-35Cs for the USN. Additionally, the United Kingdom, Italy, the Netherlands, Turkey, Australia, Norway, Denmark and Canada have agreed to contribute US$4.375 billion towards development costs, with the United Kingdom contributing about 10% of the planned development costs as the sole Tier 1 partner.

Third countries joined in JSF program only after seeing planned procurement commitment and financial commitment of US. Many of these countries even got development work-share.

On the contrary till recently IAF didn't even mention Tejas in its presentation and not to forget Tejas Mk. 2 fiascoes recent IAF presentation that led to huge out-cry.
 

flanker99

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Lets analyze the statement.
  • Mk. 1A is properly funded
  • Part of its tech is already flying in two Tejas Mk1 FOC
  • There are no changes in external configuration, maybe some optimizations
All these are qualities of an experimental aircraft and not an operational aircraft. In-short what we offer is not what exist as of now but what will exist in future.

Qualities of an operational aircraft
  1. Ready accepted by air-force of home country
  2. Clear upgrade path and future
  3. Availability of service centers
  4. 100+ aircraft in use
  5. Home air-force ready to use these aircraft in contested airspace
  6. Tactics and strategies developed for the aircraft
Any third country will regard such aircraft as a paper aircraft and no air-force will buy a half-baked pie.

Lets analyze all primary LRUs
  1. Uttam AESA - Still under testing
  2. DRDO/DARE Unified EW Suite - Under developmental testing
  3. Tejas is not BVR capable (Malaysian POV)
  4. Israeli component dependence (mainly SDR)
  5. Cockpit avionics, electronics and software is still under upgrade
I really want Tejas to be exported but I am also practical and I understand what it takes to sale your high technological product.

If we are able to sale Tejas to Malaysian Air force it will be one of the greatest a strategic and diplomatic feat of Modi goverment.🤞🤞🤞
Uttam is ready testing is done and dusted ..production is yet to start
 

jai jaganath

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The Israelis gave Elta Radar for Jaguar upgrade order on the condition that they need a large order. A specified number was agreed upon of which only a part was the numbers required for Jaguar. So remaining of those numbers will be made. Uttam also had help from Elta for it's backend. That's why Uttam mk1 production has been given to HAL so that they can balance the numbers. Uttam mk2 I think will be made by Astra microwave or some others
Then if that's the condition it would be better if we could have upgraded existing 32 tejas foc+ioc with Israeli radar
Why do we need to incorporate it in mk1a
I think the issue would have been solved for betterment of 2 sides
But no we have to abide the agreement and insert it in mk1a so there might be case od delay in development of uttam
 

Okabe Rintarou

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Lets analyze the statement.
  • Mk. 1A is properly funded
  • Part of its tech is already flying in two Tejas Mk1 FOC
  • There are no changes in external configuration, maybe some optimizations
All these are qualities of an experimental aircraft and not an operational aircraft. In-short what we offer is not what exist as of now but what will exist in future.

Qualities of an operational aircraft
  1. Ready accepted by air-force of home country
  2. Clear upgrade path and future
  3. Availability of service centers
  4. 100+ aircraft in use
  5. Home air-force ready to use these aircraft in contested airspace
  6. Tactics and strategies developed for the aircraft
Any third country will regard such aircraft as a paper aircraft and no air-force will buy a half-baked pie.

Lets analyze all primary LRUs
  1. Uttam AESA - Still under testing
  2. DRDO/DARE Unified EW Suite - Under developmental testing
  3. Tejas is not BVR capable (Malaysian POV)
  4. Israeli component dependence (mainly SDR)
  5. Cockpit avionics, electronics and software is still under upgrade
I really want Tejas to be exported but I am also practical and I understand what it takes to sale your high technological product.

If we are able to sale Tejas to Malaysian Air force it will be one of the greatest a strategic and diplomatic feat of Modi goverment.🤞🤞🤞
Joke is on the FA 50. Yet to fire a single bloody BVRAAM. Does the FA 50 even have a HMDS yet? If Tejas Mk1A is experimental so is FA-50 Block 20.
You really need to stop being so harsh on Indian products. Beggars like Malaysians can't be choosers. The two front-runners to their jet repalcement program are almost above budget for them despite being so called "experimental aircraft".
 

omaebakabaka

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Joke is on the FA 50. Yet to fire a single bloody BVRAAM. Does the FA 50 even have a HMDS yet? If Tejas Mk1A is experimental so is FA-50 Block 20.
You really need to stop being so harsh on Indian products. Beggars like Malaysians can't be choosers. The two front-runners to their jet repalcement program are almost above budget for them despite being so called "experimental aircraft".
SEA countries serve their masters very well....they are only independent on paper except for Vietnam/Laos/Cambodia. Thailand seems to be in that bucket too now....
 

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